Do I really want a LL Discovery?

[Peter C]

Gents,

 

Some of you may know that approx 4 months ago I bought a very clean 1994 Mercedes W124 E200 automatic. I needed a car with automatic transmission because I was due to have left knee surgery and the Merc fitted the bill. However, my knee is better and for a long time now I've really wanted a mid 90s TDi Discovery and I think that I've found that isn't a complete pile of shit.

 

The Merc has been totally reliable and is in perfect mechanical condition. It does not need any repairs, it had a proper service just before I bought it and is extremely comfortable, making it perfect for my needs. I love the (mushroom leather) interior, the silence and total efficiency with which it goes about it's business. The 2.0 petrol returns high 20s MPG on my commute and mid to high 30s MPG on a motorway run.

 

The Discovery is likely to want repairs and constant ongoing maintenance. If we don't get any more snow then strictly speaking I don't NEED a 4x4 vehicle. I doubt that the Disco would be as reliable or comfortable as the Merc and I guess that mid 20s MPG is the best I can hope for. However, for some reason I really fancy the idea of driving a truck like, diesel powered 4x4. The potential candidate is up for pretty much the same as what the Merc is worth, so purchase costs are not a problem.

 

Help me out here guys. Do I keep the Merc and forget about this rusty old Disco or is it time for a bit of 4x4 fun.

 

Anyone here had a Disco? What are they really like?

 

Peter C

[Shep Shepherd]

On balance, I'd keep the Merc

[michael1703]

a. no

b. no

C. range rover classic

[trigger]

What's a LL Discovery? Lady Lumps? Lusty Lesbo?

 

Regardless of that I'd keep the Merc, a much better driving experiance, or the RR classic like Mike said.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

It's not a better/worse driving experience, it's just a different one.

 

I've only driven Defenders (much the same as a Disco underneath), they're good to drive when in good fettle - you rarely have to slow down much for corners.

[Guest]

If you already know it is a bit rusty, it is likely to need a hell of a lot of welding - that's the way it goes on them. I've heard of people spending over a grand on MOT welding on quite clean-looking examples.

[Pete-M]

Disco is a great idea. RR Classic is a better one.

 

As long as you give 'em proper services and keep an eye on all the levels they're reliable.

 

The E200 is mega boring compared to a nice old Rangie.

[Peter C]

Thanks guys.

 

I usually proof read my posts but LL slipped through the net.

 

A RR Classic would be great, however I can't deal with V8 thirst and the VM diesel is rare and not particularly good.

 

I know about Disco rust, which is what really puts me off the most. Honest John refers to general build quality problems, which plague early cars.

 

Pete M - I know that the Disco would be more fun than my W124. However, I don't enjoy spannering out in the cold, which is something I would probably have to get used to if I had a Disco. The W124 is boringly reliable!

 

I might just go and view the car (approx 10 miles from my house) and judge it for myself.

 

Peter

[michael1703]

I just bought a 93 range rover classic 200 tdi,£650 6 months mot and tax

 

best thing ive bought, so usefull/useable, pretty good on fuel 32-34 mpg

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1993-LAND-ROVER-R ... 3364ee609e

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1995-Range-Rover- ... 3364cc4b8b

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-LAND-ROVER-R ... 3a62e2dc82

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-200TDI-RANGE ... 19c307bb69

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RANGE-ROVER-CLASS ... 3364e8c74e

[Pete-M]

Pete M - I know that the Disco would be more fun than my W124. However, I don't enjoy spannering out in the cold, which is something I would probably have to get used to if I had a Disco. The W124 is boringly reliable!

 

I've had a lot of Rangie Classics, and I've only once been stranded by one - and that was due to alternator failure on a new alternator. Even when the gearbox died on my Rangie Turbo the thing still got me home, just without 1st, 2nd or reverse.

[scooters]

Fellah,

 

depends what you use it for - if you are relying on this vehicle as daily transport then keep the Merc FFS - I'm terrible at thinking the grass is always greener without seeing the value of the reilable motor staring me in the face!

 

if you have cold spannering then Merc all the way!

 

r

[garethj]

Discoveries can always find a new way to fail, and access to replace bits isn’t as good as on a Defender. Rust in the boot floor is a given, as is the C posts, rear arches, all inner wings and the chassis. However Alan Clark thought they were brilliant and I reckon the Merc must be a fairly uninspiring drive? If this Disco isn’t a complete dud, why not give it a shot and you can always sell it later.

[Peter C]

I just bought a 93 range rover classic 200 tdi,£650 6 months mot and tax

 

best thing ive bought, so usefull/useable, pretty good on fuel 32-34 mpg

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1993-LAND-ROVER-R ... 3364ee609e

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1995-Range-Rover- ... 3364cc4b8b

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-LAND-ROVER-R ... 3a62e2dc82

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-200TDI-RANGE ... 19c307bb69

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RANGE-ROVER-CLASS ... 3364e8c74e

 

I'd pay £650 for one like yours (with t&t) but all of the EBay ones are up for double that or the auction is at £1k with a reserve not met.

[warren t claim]

How much would you sell the Merc for?

[Peter C]

Right, there was nothing for it, I had to go and see the thing for myself. The seller (trader) was honest, gave me the time to look at the thing and to go for a drive by myself.

 

This is it:

 

 

1995 TDi, manual, 208k miles on the clock wish FSH up to 180k miles. At present, the Disco has about 5 weeks MoT, however the seller would arrange for a new MoT before sale, included within the asking price, providing that I pay the asking price, which is £999.

 

Issues with this car:

 

Bad things:

 

Both sills, front to rear, are completely rotten and need replacement. The seller's dad is apparently handy with a welder and would undertake all the work himself, getting the Disco into an MoT ready condition.

There are rot holes in the front inner wings.

I couldn't see the floorpan or boot floor but the carpets were mouldy and smelly, so chances are they are both rotten.

Paintwork is scratched but 95% of the marks would polish out.

All four tyres will need replacement within a few thousand miles.

There was a horrible loud knock coming from the rear when driving over small and large bumps.

The aux-belt idler pulley was squealing.

The PAS pump was whinning.

I couldn't hear the turbo, not even a faint whistle and there was no mid-range pick up.

Clutch biting point was high although the clutch was not sliping.

Engine was oily, although most of the staining could be put down to a leaking rocker cover gasket. However, if the previous owner skimped on replacement of a £10 gasket, what else has he disregarded?

 

Good things:

 

It's a 5 door.

Apart from the scratches and rot, it looked very presentable, with nice alloys.

The interior was relatively clean but very smelly with mouldy carpets.

Driver's seat fabric was intact, although come to think of it the seat was a bit saggy.

All the electrics worked.

Started up ok with no smoke (although it was pre-warmed despite my request to allow me to see it start from cold).

The second gear synchro was only very slightly crunchy.

Aside from the suspension knock mentioned above, there were no knocks or rattles from the drivetrain.

 

General issues:

 

Before any of you respond by calling me a twat for comparing the dynamics of a 4x4 Land Rover Disco with those of a Mercedes W124, please note that within the past couple of years I've had two mid-1980s Mitsubishi Shoguns SWB TDis and my expectations of the Disco were based on my experiences with the Shoguns.

 

There is no way I could live with a Disco as my daily car. The ride is rolly-polly, the steering has no feel or feedback, roadholding is poor with no grip and massive amounts of roll. In comparison, Shoguns from the previous decade were much nicer to drive. Acceleration was lethargic, but I don't mind that as I am rarely in a hurry. My biggest concern would be over reliability. Will it start on a cold winter's morning? Who knows.

 

There were things I liked about the Disco. The driving position and environment are spot on. I liked the gearchange and big pedals. There is plenty of space for 5 and luggage and the 4x4 system would come in handy next time it snows.

 

If and this is probably a big if, I found a tidier Disco, with a cleaner body and less tired mechanicals, somewhere locally for less than £1k, I would probably give it a go. As garethj suggested, if I don't like it I can always sell it on.

[Peter C]

How much would you sell the Merc for?

 

On the basis that it has a long MoT, tax and is sweet as a nut, I would probably let it go for a high three figure sum. Why, are you interested?

 

More info about my Mercs here: http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.c ... 932&page=1

[richardthestag]

Right, there was nothing for it, I had to go and see the thing for myself. The seller (trader) was honest, gave me the time to look at the thing and to go for a drive by myself.

 

This is it:

 

 

1995 TDi, manual, 208k miles on the clock wish FSH up to 180k miles. At present, the Disco has about 5 weeks MoT, however the seller would arrange for a new MoT before sale, included within the asking price, providing that I pay the asking price, which is £999.

 

Issues with this car:

 

Bad things:

 

Both sills, front to rear, are completely rotten and need replacement. The seller's dad is apparently handy with a welder and would undertake all the work himself, getting the Disco into an MoT ready condition.

There are rot holes in the front inner wings.

I couldn't see the floorpan or boot floor but the carpets were mouldy and smelly, so chances are they are both rotten.

Paintwork is scratched but 95% of the marks would polish out.

All four tyres will need replacement within a few thousand miles.

There was a horrible loud knock coming from the rear when driving over small and large bumps.

The aux-belt idler pulley was squealing.

The PAS pump was whinning.

I couldn't hear the turbo, not even a faint whistle and there was no mid-range pick up.

Clutch biting point was high although the clutch was not sliping.

Engine was oily, although most of the staining could be put down to a leaking rocker cover gasket. However, if the previous owner skimped on replacement of a £10 gasket, what else has he disregarded?

 

Good things:

 

It's a 5 door.

Apart from the scratches and rot, it looked very presentable, with nice alloys.

The interior was relatively clean but very smelly with mouldy carpets.

Driver's seat fabric was intact, although come to think of it the seat was a bit saggy.

All the electrics worked.

Started up ok with no smoke (although it was pre-warmed despite my request to allow me to see it start from cold).

The second gear synchro was only very slightly crunchy.

Aside from the suspension knock mentioned above, there were no knocks or rattles from the drivetrain.

 

General issues:

 

Before any of you respond by calling me a twat for comparing the dynamics of a 4x4 Land Rover Disco with those of a Mercedes W124, please note that within the past couple of years I've had two mid-1980s Mitsubishi Shoguns SWB TDis and my expectations of the Disco were based on my experiences with the Shoguns.

 

There is no way I could live with a Disco as my daily car. The ride is rolly-polly, the steering has no feel or feedback, roadholding is poor with no grip and massive amounts of roll. In comparison, Shoguns from the previous decade were much nicer to drive. Acceleration was lethargic, but I don't mind that as I am rarely in a hurry. My biggest concern would be over reliability. Will it start on a cold winter's morning? Who knows.

 

There were things I liked about the Disco. The driving position and environment are spot on. I liked the gearchange and big pedals. There is plenty of space for 5 and luggage and the 4x4 system would come in handy next time it snows.

 

If and this is probably a big if, I found a tidier Disco, with a cleaner body and less tired mechanicals, somewhere locally for less than £1k, I would probably give it a go. As garethj suggested, if I don't like it I can always sell it on.

 

I would run like hell from this un

 

Weldathon projects like this need more and more each year at around MOT time.

The clonk at the back will be the self leveling strut and rear axle a-frame - Just done mine on the classic and I did make up some new swear words.

Don't like diesels when running costs for a 4litre LPG'ed V8 are not much different.

Discos leak badly around the roof windows and rear side windows. the boot floor rots out etc etc. If it has a sunroof it will smell like a damp labrador inside.

 

I hunted down a rust free low mileage classic a few years back and LPG'ed it. Sweet as a nut for nearly 70k miles now and only one let down - alternator . I found out that a swift tap with a hammer to the alternator body pursuades the brushes to move and it'll start working again to get you home. High running costs but low depreciation and you fix it with a hammer.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Benz, Benz, Benz. Simple as that.

 

If you get a Disco(Very), a Strange Rover or an Offender, you'll need to get a 'One Life - live it' sticker and start wearing Camo. British crap at it's very worst. I wouldn't.

[meggersdog]

I've owned my 200TDi Discovery for four years.It returns 30mpg and the only "fuel" it doesn't like is used engine oil.I use it as an everyday car,a workhorse for towing and occassionally pay and play days.Apart from the rot mine has broken the clutch fork (twice).I bought mine as an MOT failure wanting inner sills for £200.I wouldn't recommend you seek out one with rotten inner sills as they are awkward to repair.

I've bought and sold alot of Discoverys and RR classics.You can buy them for reasonable money wanting minor work from clueless owners.The last one I bought was a '93 200TDi as a dealer part ex.It had rotten inner front wings which are not an MOT failure unless close to the bulkhead,a knackered headlight,a whining power steering pump and sloppy gearchange.It was advertised in the Autotrader for £575.00 as an MOT failure.I gave him £500.00 then replaced the headlight and steering pump which I got from a Discovery breakers for £30.00.The sloppy gearchange was down to a broken plate ontop of the selector,£4,50 + vat from the main dealer.MOT'd and sold on the bay within a week of buying it.

These sort of bargains don't come along too often but I think you need to be handy with the welder to bag one.That one ^^^

doesn't sound much of a bargain though,the self leveller is not a nice job,£200+ for a set of tyres and is he going to unbolt the body to replace the inner sills or just patch over the holes here and there.Nah think I'd look for a better one.

[Guest]

That Discovery needs too much work. I think the Merc is better suited for your needs. I realise its dull but it does a job, and relying on a frangible piece of shit for your everyday car gets really tedious when the bills start rolling in unabated.

 

Discoverys are great at towing and off roading. Move them out of their comfort zone and they're dire. SCTSH_ANDY shares a £600 eBay two five with a mate from work. They use it for A framing cars and marshalling \ spectating on rallies. His mate also lives in the country and the roads are fucking horrible in the winter. The Discovery is great at these tasks, but when run normally it constantly goes wrong. It's been at the unit so many times I've lost count. Your average grind doesn't seem to include any of these 'One Life - Live It' type pursuits. I am beginning to see the appeal of a Range Rover, because at least they're comfortable and competent on the road once you take them away from the field. Discoverys are barely more refined than a Defender.

 

Discoveries are fucking stupid town cars anyway. There's loads of them around Bowdon where my folks live and they're used exclusively for picking the kids up from school and going shopping. I bet the toughest conditions they've ever seen are the jetwash on the A56, and they're still rotten as a pear underneath.

You need a normal car. The Merc is a [dull] normal car. Keep the Merc.

[Pete-M]

I'd run like hell from that Disco too. Sounds like a properly shit one, although it looks ok.

 

As for the handling, if it was worse than a Shogun, it was definately utterly fucked.

 

Oh, and do Discos like that one actually have the self leveller? I know the early ones didn't as it was one of the many things that made the Disco lag behind the RRC.

 

Discoverys have always lagged behind the Range Rover as they're designed for people who can't afford the Rangie. As the RRC and Disco chassis are very similar, all Land Rover did was got rid of their old shite by putting it on Discos.

 

Still far, far better than a Shogun though.

 

I bought my Jeep because I couldn't find a good LPG Rangie for the money, and don't want a Discovery. Have you considered a Grand Cherokee? Mine's not a bad old heap. The 4.0 is shit on fuel but LPG makes it bearable (just). Comfy enough inside, all the toys, decent stereo and they're not expensive.

[trigger]

 

That's what i would do anyway, There has to be a better choice then a rotten Disco.

[Guest]

I'd run like hell from that Disco too. Sounds like a properly shit one, although it looks ok.

 

As for the handling, if it was worse than a Shogun, it was definately utterly fucked.

 

I think the vendor will only realise the money he wants by breaking it.

 

There has to be a better choice then a rotten Disco.

 

Yeah, I think in this instance the answer could be a W124 Merc.

[ChinaTom]

Avoid that Disco. Keep driving the Merc until a better Disco comes around - pay more for it if necessary, but it sounds like you need to get it out of your system. Try a long drive through the countryside and peer into the village garage forecourts. Just about every village around me has a Disco of that age for sale. They are usually more than £1k, but they will probably have come from the village and there will be a knock on the door opportunity available to talk about its history.

 

If you really want to do it and are mentally (no point saying financially) prepared for bad consequences, just do it.

 

Your luck will probably run out with the Merc at some point. L reg cars that have been perfectly reliable and cheap to own up till now means everything is probably going to break at the same time instead of the constant trickle of jobs.

 

If it all goes catastrophically wrong, get another Merc (but a bigger engined one - they'll do the same mpg if you drive it normally).

 

I know exactly how you feel - I nearly chopped my 528 Touring in for a Disco last year, but I bottled out at the last moment due to it being silver and I wanted a green one. These kinds of details matter in these kinds of non-critical decisions. To me anyway. I will eventually buy one, although by the time I get myself sorted location-wise, a Disco IV will have depreciated enough. I don't really need one, but I just want one.

[warren t claim]

A few interesting points have been made about how slow and boring a multivalve E200 is. In real life they're pretty nippy and are capable of cruising at 120mph all day whilst still returning good economy.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I'd quite like an old Discovery too.I think i would buy one and assume that it would inevitably need a shiteload of welding, i would view that as the price one must pay for buying a cheap disco. I presume you can at least buy all the metalwork for them cheap enough which would be a treat for me.

 

If you had one that you knew was not rotten I reckon it ought to be a pretty decent tool, they are old enough now that you won't be ironing out build quality issues and i'm sure the 200 and 300TDi engines must be pretty decent compared to what i'm used to. The guy who towed my Argenta back from France used a Disco (TD5, admittedly) and he didnt think twice about setting off across europe with some heavy tank behind it on a 4-wheel brian james trailer - respect is due to him and his machine.

 

 

EDIT**** I wouldnt buy this one at the top here for a grand, I would prefer to put a few cans of aerosol paint down my kegs and stand next to a bonfire till they detonated.

[ChinaTom]

A few interesting points have been made about how slow and boring a multivalve E200 is. In real life they're pretty nippy and are capable of cruising at 120mph all day whilst still returning good economy.

 

I test drove one when I was looking for the car that the 528 ended up being. I agree that it cruises nicely, but I found it needed the nuts revving off it to get up to speed from small country road junctions onto the uphill dual carriageway. Small niche complaint I admit. I was convinced that was the car for me for ages. I would have had a 320 (or a 280 for that matter) but the BMW was cheaper and slightly better looked after.

[dollywobbler]

I voted Landy, but maybe not that one. There are plenty out there, and they can be had cheap (unless it snows again!).

 

Maybe we can start an Autoshite Land Rover Owners group. "ONE LIFE. FUCK IT."

[Cavcraft]

I think you'll struggle to find any decent, useable Discovery with loads of MOT that doesn't need (or is likely to need soon) hundreds pending on it. The plus point is when it breaks at great expense you'll get a decent wedge of your money back from one of the 'One life, live it' brigade.

 

Keep the Merc.

[michael1703]

that disco looks pure shite, not worth more than £550 in reality.

 

you have to pay £1250-£1550 for not too fucked early discos