Watch me make a stupid mistake - Peugeot 504 Break L

[jonathan_dyane]

Good point, much easier to find a Talbot Express rocker and shaft!

[meowmeow]

59 minutes ago, cobblers said:

That engine looks mega familiar from when I had my Talbot Express!! Quite pleasant old lumps. 

Do these suffer with mega warping exhaust manifolds like the talbots do? Be worth putting a straight edge on it before you bolt it all back together. The iron is v soft, I lapped mine flat with a couple of sheets of emery cloth spray glued to some 22mm mdf

Yep pretty sure they're the same, or at least very similar, XM7 is the engine code

Thanks for the suggestion, I did check the manifold back when I was replacing the studs and it seems ok so that's good

54 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

Good point, much easier to find a Talbot Express rocker and shaft!

For some reason I read that as "much easier to find a Talbot Express than a rocker and shaft"

Don't think I've got space for anything else haha

[DSdriver]

If your cam followers are shagged don't buy new chineseum but source some reusable old ones. The new ones that were used on my DS engine rebuild only lasted a couple of weeks before the tappets were rattling like the notorious skeleton enjoying itself. I think they must have forgotten to case harden them or something.

[captain_70s]

39 minutes ago, DSdriver said:

If your cam followers are shagged don't buy new chineseum but source some reusable old ones. 

New ones for Triumph OHV lumps are also known for disintegrating rapidly and sending swarf through the engine...

[Zelandeth]

Looks like that engine had had about as much care given to it as the one in the Merc S123 I had a few years back.  Lubrication in that had been neglected to the point that the rear end of the camshaft and followers had eaten each other and the camshaft had ground its way a good millimetre down into the head.  It's astonishing what neglect can do to an engine - and in this case how well it can still run despite the damage.  The only real sign of trouble I had here was that the top end clattered like an 1100 Fiesta the whole time.

Hopefully you're not going to be finding quite this level of carnage!  I'd have liked to pull a bearing cap or two off the bottom end of this engine to see what state that was in but it turned out not to be possible without at least partly removing the engine because of a cross member being in the way of the sump coming off and I didn't have time to take the engine out.  I'm guessing the answer if I had got things apart would have been "not pretty" given that the warm oil pressure wasn't great and I was sure it was knocking a bit at higher revs.

[meowmeow]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Looks like that engine had had about as much care given to it as the one in the Merc S123 I had a few years back.  Lubrication in that had been neglected to the point that the rear end of the camshaft and followers had eaten each other and the camshaft had ground its way a good millimetre down into the head.  It's astonishing what neglect can do to an engine - and in this case how well it can still run despite the damage.  The only real sign of trouble I had here was that the top end clattered like an 1100 Fiesta the whole time.

Hopefully you're not going to be finding quite this level of carnage!  I'd have liked to pull a bearing cap or two off the bottom end of this engine to see what state that was in but it turned out not to be possible without at least partly removing the engine because of a cross member being in the way of the sump coming off and I didn't have time to take the engine out.  I'm guessing the answer if I had got things apart would have been "not pretty" given that the warm oil pressure wasn't great and I was sure it was knocking a bit at higher revs.

jesus that doesn't look great

I did pull the cam followers out today to have a peek at the condition of the lobes on the camshaft, and they looked totally fine, but then again I can't turn the engine over with the head off as it'll probably unseat the liners

One of the next jobs on the list is to take the sump off anyway to knock the dent out of it, so might get a better look at things then.

Weird as it's just the one rocker that's knackered, all the others are fine . The wear looks like it was running like that for a while, so either just a blockage or maybe design weakness?

 

[Bmwdumptruck]

I reckon sump off is a good idea.  Wet liners are a pain, a couple of bits of angle iron bolted across the tops would let you turn it over.

[meowmeow]

tiny bit more progress

stingy me not wanting to buy a new bonnet release cable, pulled the old snapped cable out of the stopper, drilled it out and whacked in some new slightly thicker wire

seems to actuate the latches fine

 

 

Removed the rear seats and panel covering the back edge of the boot floor to check how far the rust goes

answer: weirdly not as far as I was expecting

Stops just after the downwards bend so I should be able to do this without dropping the rear suspension

 

more dirty dirty cleany cleany

 

Got sick of hitting my head on the tailgate every time I squeezed past it to get out of the garage, so decided it was better I just remove it - got a rust-free replacement that'll be going on at some point anyway

First step, hairdryer:

Idea here being soften up the brittle headliner so it doesn't split when I peel it off the lip

surprisingly actually worked

Moral of the story, don't try and remove a 504 tailgate by yourself - it is heavy

even when I acquired assistance it still fell on my head

 

Oil filter housing off, ready to be cleaned:

and new gasket cut out:

eh, close enough

rinse and repeat with the oil filler thingy:

 

Worth mentioning that the reason this is taking so long is that, for the most part, I am incompetent, case in point:

Thought I'd ring the local Peugeot dealer and see if they could get me an oil filter.

Did I check the part numbers? No. Did I check the dimensions? No.  Did I even bother to check the old filter that was on the car? Also no, of course I just threw it in the bin.

They gave me a filter that matched according to their parts database, I thought great, looks ok to me, let me order another one since I'll be doing a few oil changes in succession once I get the engine running to make sure everything's clean.

Finally actually bother to see if it'll fit the car, and quelle surprise it does not.

Dimensions are correct, but the thread is M18, not M20 as it is on the filter. Fine, silly me, I'll just look online to try and find the correct filter.

But what is this? Apparently the M18 variant is a pain to get a hold of and the Puflux equivalent is NLA.

Hmm, let me fish that old filter out of the bin, maybe I can get a part number off of that?

Ok, well I mean it must've worked but not really ideal. Either way I can't read the part number off of it anyway so back in the bin it goes.

After cross referencing filters for several hours, it turns out that the filter for a late 90s Astra 1.4 is near-enough identical to the correct Peugeot filter??

The Purflux part number is LS206, but isn't listed as compatible for some reason. Bought one anyway and it's perfectly fine. So ordered some cheapo crossland equivalents as well:

So, conclusion: any money I saved repairing the bonnet release cable was blown on oil filter shittery. Well done me.

Guess that's how you learn innit

 

Anyway in that time the replacement rocker arm and shaft arrived so that got assembled:

 

At this point the guy who sold me the car kindly notified me that one of the cylinder liners had popped loose when he was freeing up the engine.

Time to test that theory:

Ah yep, ok everyone out then...

Took the one liner out and cleaned it up to assess its condition; not too bad, they'll probably go again.

 

New set of rings ordered, and aluminium liner seals on backorder, so haven't taken the other liners out just yet.

 

Bought a stereo, meeting the main criteria:

1. Be period correct, late 70s early 80s

2. Have cassette and radio functionality

3. Be less than £30 but not sound like shit

Had a look inside, belts need replacing, interestingly has a Lenco mechanism - never seen one of those before

 

Finally, time to sort out the car's wonky face. As a reminder here's what we're dealing with:

Needs pushing forward a bit for the bolt holes to line up:

After pissing off all my neighbours for a few hours, we had this:

Not perfect but nobody's gonna see it under the panel, so long as it all lines up.

Test fitting the body panels:

 

Ok, but the gap between the top of the headlight and front panel was still a bit too big for my liking, so a bit more manipulating and:

That'll do for now, though all this does create some new tolerance problems regarding my ability to close the garage door

and I haven't even put the bumper on yet...

 

Hopefully in the next update I'll have sorted out the new liner seals, pistons and whatever's going on with the dented sump.

 

[Zelandeth]

Only thing to be aware of when swapping oil filters around is that some have non return valves in.  So long as you're not trying to push oil the wrong way through it if there is one you'll probably be fine though.

[Dj_efk]

Just discovered this thread - what a delightful old bus and kudos to you for saving it - it would almost certainly end up as Irish bean tins eventually otherwise. 
 

Agree with the advice re: oil filter - I’m sure you will, but just be careful to turn it over with the plugs out when the lump is all back together and check that oil is getting to the top end visually and the light goes out in good time (within 4/5 seconds) and if so, it’ll be areet.

[meowmeow]

2 hours ago, Dj_efk said:

Just discovered this thread - what a delightful old bus and kudos to you for saving it - it would almost certainly end up as Irish bean tins eventually otherwise. 
 

Agree with the advice re: oil filter - I’m sure you will, but just be careful to turn it over with the plugs out when the lump is all back together and check that oil is getting to the top end visually and the light goes out in good time (within 4/5 seconds) and if so, it’ll be areet.

Thanks!

Yep that's exactly the plan 👍

[meowmeow]

sit rep - am still waiting for cylinder liner seals

so more silly little bits this time.

 

Ran new wiring for the headlights, park lights, indicators and horn

Connected the battery and as expected it behaved very french -

Got indicators, oil temperature and fuel gauge, but nothing else. I had hazards for a bit but then they got grumpy too.

No dash lights, no wipers, park lights, headlights (controlled by the same stalk), no interior lights. Interestingly both tail light bulbs were blown when I opened the housing, so who know's what's been going on.

Think the heater fan works but it's seized - will sort that when I do the heater matrix.

Did turn the key too far by accident and found out it turns over on the starter fine though...

 

Had a quick lookie, cleaned the grounds and the blade connections on the fusebox, alas nadda

Five fuses and one relay vs one human bean with no automotive electrical knowledge. I'll come back to this later

 

Went to remove the rear wheel to weld up the last bit of the o/s sill and

Right that'll be a pair of axle seals then

 

o/s sill repaired:

infinitely grateful that the guy who sold me the car found a sill repair panel for this bit

n/s however is going to be fun...

Top bit's slightly wobbly admittedly but will be covered by chrome trim so shhh

 

Very limited clearance between car and wall to remove the half shaft, so had to dolly the thing across the garage

even then only squeaked out with about 3cm to spare...

Someone's been in here before, and somehow split the washers

Manual says there are meant to be paper gaskets, so let's make some:

New oil slinger as the one in there looked quite sad

Measured depth and used a variety of genuine Peugeot special tools to fit the new slinger:

1. Freezer (for shrinkage)

2. Various plumbing fittings that happened to be the right diameter

3. Return of the terrible Amazon cheapo puller

4. Finely crafted block of wood.

Still managed to twat the side of my index finger with the mallet and probably caused a hairline fracture

swelled up like a balloon and couldn't move it for 3 days, still hurts now  3 weeks later and I can't set the choke on the Golf without crying ffs

 

Took the half-shaft to get the old bearing and lock ring driven off, then fitted new axle seal:

Seal is new but the bearing and lock ring are ancient

Found that everything new I buy for this car is shit quality, so NOS stuff or repairing what's on it seems to be far more sensible

 

Now to pre-heat the oven to 250 degrees

Pressed on new bearing and lock ring

which was a pain as couldn't for the life of me remove the studs from this bit so had to stack all kinds of weird things in the press to get some clearance

 

More grot welded and painted:

 

Read somewhere that you can fully disassemble and unravel the crankcase ventilation scourer pad thing

good thing i did as following the theme it was disgusting

 

Brake light switch was jammed in the off position, so removed, disassembled and cleaned up:

Interestingly the pedal doesn't seem to 100% line up with it, so will have to look into that at some point

 

New ground wires for the strut tops

 

Time to investigate the wiper motor, presumed seized

Step 1 remove the leaves

 

Yep, pretty jammed up in there

Cleaned up the spindle as best I could, it was quite rusty unfortunately, but seems to operate and spin nicely now

All re-greased and reassembled

But of course can't actually test it on the car as happy days there's no power getting to it from the stalk

 

Lastly while rummaging in the dashboard I found some free chewing gum!

and a parking ticket from Watermouth Castle - a fair journey considering the previous UK address it was registered under was in Hayes, and before that Twickenham

 

Also, the £1 kitchen is now looking like a solid £20 kitchen thanks to some snazzy wallpaper

 

 

[Supernaut]

Why do strut tops need ground wires...?

[jim89]

17 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Why do strut tops need ground wires...?

Static cling innit

[Rustyrotavator]

Hey the work, on the car is amazing ur far better than Daytime TV.  Just realised uv got a  70s vibe going looking at the kitchen and what looks  like a queen of the cookers -Parkinson Cowan- colour  so redolent of the era . A real quality make. 

Carry on ,  I'm so enjoying  your struggles , ingenuity  and successes 

 

 

[meowmeow]

55 minutes ago, Rustyrotavator said:

what looks  like a queen of the cookers -Parkinson Cowan- colour  so redolent of the era . A real quality make.

That's exactly correct, found it in the basement where i used to work and nabbed it before it got scrapped

gotta say it was bloody awkward dragging up the flight of stairs though

[Dj_efk]

A word of advice - even if they look fine, I would replace all fuses, you may find more of the electrics magically then fix themselves.

[meowmeow]

2 hours ago, Dj_efk said:

A word of advice - even if they look fine, I would replace all fuses, you may find more of the electrics magically then fix themselves.

ah forgot to mention that was literally the first thing i did, a couple pretty much fell apart in my hand

I've got to take all the connectors apart and have a look under the dash as if I wriggle the loom with my hand the relay sometimes clicks on and off, so something's a bit loose by the sounds of it

[Dj_efk]

Or possibly the connections need a tickle with some emery - unlikely to be something’s worked loose unless there was an intermittent fault when it was on the road, I’d have thought?

Just my way of thinking anyway.

[meowmeow]

47 minutes ago, Dj_efk said:

Or possibly the connections need a tickle with some emery - unlikely to be something’s worked loose unless there was an intermittent fault when it was on the road, I’d have thought?

Just my way of thinking anyway.

good point, will have a look at this once i've recovered from contorting myself into weird shapes to get under the dash

[meowmeow]

more electrical bits

was discussing with the guy i bought the car from about replacement connectors, and he just said look I'll send you the whole section of the loom from one of the 504s I'm breaking

touch!

very sound guy he is, sent it up to NI to be posted to me avoiding customs checks from ROI

got rid of my wiring (which incidentally was correct), and spliced in new section of loom with the correct connectors for the park and indicator lights

Went back over the rest of the wiring and cleaned all the grounds and connections i could find

There are 3 grounds in a ridiculous location up on the firewall, that you can see with the clocks removed, but need child hands to get to.

so ended up removing the heater box (and associated mouse nests and leaves) to get to them from underneath.

good chance to get the heater matrix out, minding I don't damage the delicate spiral thingy

some kind of thermostatic control for the valve in the matrix inlet i think?

No pictures of the grounds because even with the heater removed it was a massive pain in the arse to wriggle my way between the seats, gearstick, dash frame and transmission tunnel to clean them

but not in vain as after doing so the choke tell-tale light and heater fan came back to life.

Test rigged up the fuel gauge,

  

and disassembled the brake fluid level sensor to clean it up

Next opened up the relay and cleaned the contacts

cleaned everything else some more

still not working

Spent days checking all the switches and wiring to and from the fuse box with a multimeter, it's all testing good?

am i just this bad at troubleshooting electrical problems?

scanned the wiring diagram from HBOL so i could look at it clearer on my computer screen

noticed this:

main power wire (1) to the relay from the.... positive battery terminal

hang on a mo

pretty sure...

ah fuck sake.

connected it to the negative terminal didn't I

switched it over and whaddya know everything's behaving itself now

 

Except the wipers, which are permanently on in the 1st speed.

Noticed when i got the car that the stalk was in the on position, and I couldn't twist it to get the second wiper speed - guessing as the wiper motor was seized, when our guy was turning the engine over on the starter it probably fried the switch, which receives direct power, not from the relay

The connectors did look a bit melted.

tested the switch and the pins for the wiper operation are shorted

New switch ordered from switzerland

 

New base for the interior light as the old one had disintegrated:

 

With that sorted, went back to investigating why the pedals are all weird.

Turns out the brake pedal was bent, so pursuaded it to bend back the other way

and now lines up with the brake light switch and doesn't foul on anything:

 

Got the arm for the clutch pedal out, and that too was looking a very odd shape

Ordered a new arm, slightly different, but can see here how messed up the original was (on the left)

and everything clears properly now, instead of the arm bumping into the brake booster when the clutch pedal is depressed:

 

Apparently the liner seals are still in France, as the guy didn't fill the customs paperwork properly and has now gone on holiday till 30th March...

 

[Tickman]

There is all kinds of wonderful stuff going on here. 
Excellent to see the revival of stuff rather than just trying to order a replacement.

[meowmeow]

14 minutes ago, Tickman said:

Excellent to see the revival of stuff rather than just trying to order a replacement.

to be fair half the time i don't really have a choice as the parts are either NLA or stupid expensive haha

but also there's definitely some fun in trying to get decrepit old rubbish to work again