invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

Stealth invacar! cant say I have had one come up as grey before!

its part of the MWC-J block MWC701J to MWC800J and its not alone!

 

MTW MVW and MVX did not turn anything up however theres a large gap where nothing shows up between MVW297J and MVW403J

which might be an Invacar block between MVW301J to MVW400J however since nothing shows up its hard to say, but the fact that theres somewhat of jump from the end of Feb 1971 to the start of May 1971 suggests there is a block between MPU-J and MWC-J which I suspect to be MVW301-400J as per above

 

next series to go through is NEV-J

heres a very handy list of Essex makers for those who want to follow along or such  

 

On 8/24/2019 at 12:57 PM, busmansholiday said:

In terms of reg series I have to following for Essex prior to Oct 1974,

EV, HK, NO, OO, PU, TW, VW, VX, WC.

[LightBulbFun]

Last one for tonight  

nothing for NEV or NHK, but got a hit on NNO-J  

NNO501J to NNO600J, got a hit pretty early on which was nice! with MWC793J being registered on the 14th of May 1971, and NNO503J being registered on the 18th of may 1971 its pretty clear that im not missing any blocks here  

and then got 2 more as I went through the block  

 

 

1st of June this one, not too long until the first K reg block! (I do wonder if the last J reg block will be nice neat 100 or if it will but cut short because of the change over in suffix)

 

NOO-J next  

[LightBulbFun]

3 show up this time  and just as a refresher as to what im doing all of a sudden, im finding all the Invacar Mk12 blocks that existed between LVX-J and PEV-K, since there are 2 Mk12 survivors in that range, with unknown registration numbers that id like to figure out

once i have found all the blocks, ill take all the registration numbers that still show up on the DVLA from those blocks and give em to my HPI guy for their chassis numbers then I can triangulate what the Unknown Mk12 registration numbers are

 

 

 

 

next is NTW-J! 

[LightBulbFun]

nothing for NTW-J but NVW-J gave me a result  , NVW801J to NVW900J, and got 4 that show up on the DVLA still! tho looks like NVW862J only just shows up by the skin of its teeth going by that 1980 tax due!

 

 

 

NVX-J next! and we are pretty far into July 1971 now, so the fun of is the last J reg block shorter then the normal 100 and when does the K reg blocks start, kicks in!

[LightBulbFun]

the first of the K Reg Invacars  OHK101K to OHK200K (NVX-J did not turn anything up and i went up in blocks of 50 to be sure, and it looks like NWC-J was never issued at all, neither was NWC-K by the looks of things, but OEV-K was but no invacars there)

trust me its an Invacar! body type comes back as Invalid Vehicle, nothing like DVLA shenanigans to keep you on your toes!

  

 

and further confirmed when later down the block this popped up  

its still funky to think of a Mk12 on a K plate! just like its funky to think of a Model 70 on a J plate  

sadly I dont have any pictures of such, but I do have proof they both existed!

next is ONO-K  

[LightBulbFun]

going up the K range! ONO-K did not turn up anything but OOO-K did  (ooo indeed!)

had a hit pretty early on which was nice! (I go up in 100 remembers so ill start with xxx4x then 104 204 etc for example)

this one took me longer to get up here because I took a food break in the middle and then stuart popped online for a short while so obviously I stopped to talk to him  

 

 

this block was relatively "plentiful" with 4 showing up on the DVLA still  

im PRETTY sure this is the last Block before the last block of Mk12's which is PEV401K to PEV500K 

since OOO381K is 13th of sept 1971, and PEV422K is 23rd of Sept 1971, but ill go through the rest of the Oxx-K range just to be safe

next is OPU-K!

[quicksilver]

OOO indeed, I know of a vehicle registered just before that batch of Invacars. OOO 298K was a Ford/Willowbrook bus new to Osbornes of Tollesbury.

Interesting to see how many invalid carriages were registered as Reliants. Maybe someone at the DVLA thought anything with three wheels was made by Reliant, like people nowadays who see a three-wheeler and immediately call it a 'Robin Reliant'.

[LightBulbFun]

13 hours ago, quicksilver said:

OOO indeed, I know of a vehicle registered just before that batch of Invacars. OOO 298K was a Ford/Willowbrook bus new to Osbornes of Tollesbury.

Interesting to see how many invalid carriages were registered as Reliants. Maybe someone at the DVLA thought anything with three wheels was made by Reliant, like people nowadays who see a three-wheeler and immediately call it a 'Robin Reliant'.

neat  OOO601M to OOO700M is also a Block of Invacars   (Model 70's)

and yes if you must know POO201-POO300M is also a block of Invacar Model 70's so that virtual gaz picture was partly right!, im surprised they ever issued the POO regs, 

imagine being all excited for your shiny new Ford (it seems like a lot of fords where registered in the Essex area) only for it to have a POO reg!

 

its interesting to note that im pretty sure I have only seen Invacars come back as Reliants, (I dont think I have seen an AC come back as reliant but does remind me I need to get UPB421M run...)

 

I have just finished going through the last Oxx-K regs (PU, TW, VW, VX, and WC) and indeed no invacar blocks as i suspected 

so thats every* block between LVX-J and PEV-K found  

(*depending on if LWC101J to LWC200J and MVW301J to MVW400J are Invacar blocks too, i cant tell right now as nothing shows up on the DVLA for those blocks)

the plan is now to get all the regs that show up still and send em off to my HPI guy for processing, then once I have their chassis numbers I can figure out the 2 Surviving Mk12's registration numbers (as I have their chassis numbers and know they fall after the LVX-J block)

and also should tell me if indeed I am "missing" a block or 2 (say if between LVX-J and MHK-J theres 100 chassis numbers gap then that would tell me that yes LWC-J is an Invacar block since there are not any holes of 100 elsewhere after LVX but before MHK)

 

I was planning on doing the DVLA bashing side of things anyway as I was quite curious what all the K reg Invacar Mk12 blocks where, and finally the 2 Unknown Mk12s gave me good incentive to do so

(I could tell from being September-october 1971 that there must of been K suffix Mk12 blocks before PEV-K)

 

sadly such methods shown here would not work for anything older then a J reg Invalid vehicle, since anything older, and we get to the point where just entire blocks no longer show up on the DVLA, and also just in general fewer normal cars show up still from the period, making it very difficult/time consuming to find the invacar blocks

 

so it looks like between LVX201J to LVX300J and PEV401K to PEV500K was:

(LWC101-200J?) MHK801J to MHK900J, MPU301J to MPU400J, (MVW301J to MVW400J?) MWC701J to MWC800J, NNO501J to NNO600J, NPU101J to NPU200J, NVW801J to NVW900J, OHK101K to OHK200K, and finally OOO301K to OOO400K

8 blocks so 800 chassis numbers/cars, or 10 blocks or 1000 chassis numbers/cars if you count the suspected ones

i might be able to use this info alone in conjunction with the known chassis numbers of LVX293J the 2 Unknowns and the chassis number of PEV442K (the youngest surviving Mk12)

to figure out the reg numbers of said 2 unknowns, but im not 100% sure

(although I suspect stuart may have gotten PEV442K chassis number wrong but still figuring that out)

[LightBulbFun]

alright 

MHK825J, MHK882J, MPU344J, MWC724J, MWC793J, NNO503J, NNO528J, NNO545J, NPU124J, NPU154J, NPU167J, NVW839J, NVW848J, NVW860J, NVW862J, OHK149K, OHK157K, OOO302K, OOO312K, OOO364K, OOO381K, PEV422K, and finally PEV463K

have been sent to my HPI guy, if you hear a gunshot, its either, my HPI guy shooting me, or shooting himself!

[LightBulbFun]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333370618975

Nelco Solocar anyone? still shows up on the DVLA as well to boot  (they dare not plate rape it!) 

(I love how it looks like motor speed control seems to be just a big ass wirewound resistor mounted under the front wing i imagine for air cooling)

 

and one for @barrett since I know he likes his obscure stuff 

[LightBulbFun]

so following the relative success of finding Invacar Mk12's on the DVLA checker

I figured I would have a punt with the AC Model 67s

however at a more casual rate then the Mk12's as I currently don't have a specific vehicle im trying to ID

so  today I went through the EPH-J block, I knew of the EPH-J block from EPH377J being pictured pitch side and EPH364J being pictured at heywood 

but today I decided as mentioned above, to figure out where the block starts and ended, and it looks like, just like with Model 70's AC blocks are 200 cars big, and go through the block to see exactly what still shows up etc

 

one of the reasons for doing the Model 67's is im curious how many show up in a block still on the DVLA compared to Mk12's

as from what I can see although obviously the Model 70 was made to replace everything before it, it looks like More Invacars Mk12's hung around after the Model 70, then Model 67s did, ie It looks like the Model 70 replaced Model 67s more directly then they did Mk12s

although this is just preliminary findings, partly based on the fact that although 38 Invacar Mk12's are known to survive, only 10 AC Model 67s are known to survive sadly

and its not like the Model 67 was uncommon back in the day as well, quite the contrary, I think I have seen more Model 67's in late 60's/early 70's photos then I have Mk12s

anywho here is what still shows up! (it looks like the block is EPH251J to EPH450J)

Colour fun  

      

I  actually came across EPH370J on the DVLA a good while back when I was just idling going up and down a few numbers from EPH377J, as such EPH370J has been on the "HPI merry go round" for a while now im hoping it will be run soon, as I don't know what the chassis numbers are like for later Model 67s (the latest chassis number I know of is DPD778Js chassis number and thats from October 1970) so it will be interesting to see what the chassis number format is for later Model 67s  

then EPH371J, id forgotten about this one, but do recall finding it, I think I forgot about it, as although its "Not taxed for on road use" its showing as "Not taxed" for vehicle status which meant when I came across it at the time, I could not pull its details using my tools

and finally EPH399J, im surprised it still shows up on the DVLA with that tax due date!

 

it looks like a fairly average number still show up on the DVLA when compared to Mk12 blocks of the same age

ill do some more AC Model 67 blocks in time, I think ill have a look at my photos archive and see what regs I can spot first, before I go hunting specifically for Blocks  (especially as Surry has a few more area codes then Essex does so searching for AC blocks always takes a bit longer!)

[Mrs6C]

I would think the Sainsbury's archive photos will reveal their fair share of invalid vehicles...

 

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

I would think the Sainsbury's archive photos will reveal their fair share of invalid vehicles...

 

aye I have been following  that thread in the hopes to see some invalid vehicles

but rather surprisingly iv not actually seen any, unless im just blinded by all the other lovely old cars?  

(or did disabled people just not shop at sainsbury's?)

[Mrs6C]

I found reference to this footage on a football thread (search for "disabled vehicles"  "football match"  to see what turned up):
https://youtu.be/wAH274_BYo4

Just a couple of obvious sightings, one at 18:06 and the other at 25:37...

Here's another very short clip - just look at them all!

 

[LightBulbFun]

On 3/29/2019 at 9:50 AM, dollywobbler said:

One of my followers has just sent me this link. Previous generation in the Welsh hills!

 

just noticed while watching this video again

that the Model 67 pictured, has its tow bar on the opposite side they are on normally on Model 67's, 

just like the on the one down under,

and indeed it looks like EPD792J is a "flipped" car like the Model 67 down under

notice there is no door on the near side (where as normally its, no door on the offside with the door being on the nearside as its closest to the kerb)

(I still wonder what that roof rack looking thing is about!)

just for comparison here is where the tow bar normally is as seen on APK864H and EPH364J (it's interesting how the tow bar changed position depending on how the internal controls where layed out)

 

its interesting to note that I dont think I have come across a "flipped" Invacar Mk12 yet...

[Eyersey1234]

How many Invacars were built LightBulbFun? 

[LightBulbFun]

15 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

How many Invacars were built LightBulbFun? 

like Invacars specifically?

or invalid vehicle in general?

or just Model 70's?

 

if just Model 70's then AC made about 9200 and Invacar made about 9000 according  to my calculations  

for a total of 18200 Government Model 70's 

plus the about 50 or so examples that where sold privately and not to the government (25 from Invacar 25 from AC, tho keep in mind this is a rough guess, however I know for a fact that my Model 70 is the 23rd Private example from Invacar)

takes us to 18250 Model 70's produced in total  

 

does remind me I want to see if there is a block of Model 70's after XEV49S-XEV116S, however seeing as this is right at the end of production, i don't know how large this hypothetical block would be which makes things a bit tricker...

I might do a quick go going up in jumps of 100 anyway

(until I can workup the strength to go up in blocks of 25 again if I dont find anything, like I did when looking for any blocks after VPG243S-VPG269S, went through Vxx-S and Wxx-S, that was a LONG slog LOL)

sadly I did not find any blocks after VPG-S, which makes me think that the last of the Model 70's all went to NI

[Eyersey1234]

8 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

like Invacars specifically?

or invalid vehicle in general?

or just Model 70's?

 

if just Model 70's then AC made about 9200 and Invacar made about 9000 according  to my calculations  

for a total of 18200 Government Model 70's 

plus the about 50 or so examples that where sold privately and not to the government (25 from Invacar 25 from AC, tho keep in mind this is a rough guess, however I know for a fact that my Model 70 is the 23rd Private example from Invacar)

takes us to 18250 Model 70's produced in total  

 

does remind me I want to see if there is a block of Model 70's after XEV49S-XEV116S, however seeing as this is right at the end of production, i don't know how large this hypothetical block would be which makes things a bit tricker...

I might do a quick go going up in jumps of 100 anyway

(until I can workup the strength to go up in blocks of 25 again if I dont find anything, like I did when looking for any blocks after VPG243S-VPG269S, went through Vxx-S and Wxx-S, that was a LONG slog LOL)

sadly I did not find any blocks after VPG-S, which makes me think that the last of the Model 70's all went to NI

Thanks. Presumably Model 70 production finished c. 1978 with the last block being S reg. Which registration office were they registered to? 

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Thanks. Presumably Model 70 production finished c. 1978 with the last block being S reg. Which registration office were they registered to? 

AC Model 70's where registered to Surrey/Guildford and Invacar Model 70's where registered to Essex/Chelmsford  

Model 70 Production is thought to have ended in March 1978 

however the last of the VPG-S cars were registered the 1st of April 1978

and I know of a NI registered Model 70 whos chassis number is 48 ahead that of of VPG269S's chassis number (which is the latest known english registried Model 70)

so production may have actually continued into April 1978

(all government bought/owned english Model 70's where registered at the factory by the factory hence why all the ACs have Surrey/guildford reg's and all the Invacars have Essex/Chelmsford reg's as thats where the respective factories where)

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

I found reference to this footage on a football thread (search for "disabled vehicles"  "football match"  to see what turned up):
https://youtu.be/wAH274_BYo4

Just a couple of obvious sightings, one at 18:06 and the other at 25:37...

Here's another very short clip - just look at them all!

 

oohh missed this 

very nice find!  

that is one Shiny Model 70!

(shame no regs are visible)

 

one of these days all the invalid vehicle owners of Autoshite should get together and then turn up in their invalid vehicles at a really big football match and see if they let us in or not  (poor guy manning the gate will probably think he has been sent back in time! LOL)

(I have wondered, when did they stop the practice of letting invacars on the pitch, or did it technically never stop? ) 

[LightBulbFun]

Just did a quick run through the rest of the Xxx-S reg series 

and as somewhat expected I sadly did not find any more Invacar blocks

maybe there was one hiding that was smaller than 100, but that will require further investigation

(I did remember to include the 3 extra markers that got added during 1974)

ill have a bash at Yxx-S too later

[Eyersey1234]

10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

AC Model 70's where registered to Surrey/Guildford and Invacar Model 70's where registered to Essex/Chelmsford  

Model 70 Production is thought to have ended in March 1978 

however the last of the VPG-S cars were registered the 1st of April 1978

and I know of a NI registered Model 70 whos chassis number is 48 ahead that of of VPG269S's chassis number (which is the latest known english registried Model 70)

so production may have actually continued into April 1978

(all government bought/owned english Model 70's where registered at the factory by the factory hence why all the ACs have Surrey/guildford reg's and all the Invacars have Essex/Chelmsford reg's as thats where the respective factories where)

Thanks LBF.  

[Eyersey1234]

Of course it's possible the April 1978 registered Model 70s were built March 1978

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Of course it's possible the April 1978 registered Model 70s were built March 1978

yeah they would of been

I only know of a handful, and they where registered on the 1st of April 1978

VPS267S VPG268S and VPG269S

so obviously those would of been built in march 1978

but I know of WOI654 and GIG4834,  which are 19 and 48 cars ahead of VPG269S respectively, which I wonder if they were built later into April 1978

however both of those are Northern ireland cars, and it seems like Northern ireland Model 70's where registered MUCH later then when they were built

or maybe they started life out under a British reg but got re-registered? I don't know exactly

the whole NI thing is something in its own right that im still trying to solve/figure out exactly!

but GIG4834 was Registered October 1980! (and WOI654, July 1980)

 

 

BTW heres a quick quote back to me explaining how the private examples worked

On 7/5/2019 at 8:26 PM, LightBulbFun said:

it looks like with Private Invacar Model 70's Invacar would just pluck one off the DHSS production line and sell that off privately, and then they just shunted the Chassis numbers, which threw the Number plate and chassis numbers 1 step out of sync from after that Private Model 70 and onwards till the end of that reg block

so it would be like

REG1 REG2 REG3 REG4 REG5 REG6 REG7
1          2         3         P         4          5         6

see how that would skew things?

(for those wondering AC did not pick off the DHSS production line like that so to speak, if a private order came in they would build a Model 70 specifically for that order, and it was given a Random Surry or even Non Surry reg like any other private car would be given,. at least so far from what I have seen thats what it looks like!)

 (I say that AC would build a Model 70 specifically for the order, but they could of plucked one off the production line invacar style, its just the way they did things, meant it did not mess with the DHSS side of things like the way Invacar did things)

[LightBulbFun]

this does remind me, any update on this one @Faker

On 8/31/2019 at 12:44 AM, Faker said:

I've a mate over here in norn iron that has an invicar in his yard. Owned for donkeys years now. Was privately owned or some such story.. meaning it wasn't relinquished from the owner back in the day when these beautiful machines were removed from service...

On 9/2/2019 at 2:59 AM, Faker said:

I'll get over to the fellas house over the next few days and get some pics. It's definitely in private hands. V5 etc and registered to him.

On 9/3/2019 at 12:37 AM, Faker said:

This was covered in the past with this ac. There's documentation of some sort with it. I'll chase it up...

im still very intrigued by it  

[Eyersey1234]

Was there any particular reason they were called Model 70? Sorry for all the questions this thread got me wondering 

[LightBulbFun]

9 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Was there any particular reason they were called Model 70? Sorry for all the questions this thread got me wondering 

when the NHS/invalid vehicle service was formed, they formed their own Model numbering scheme for all their equipment 

this made things a bit easier in terms of keeping track of whats what then working with whatever the manufacturers called their vehicles

everything Model 39 to Model 70 was a powered invalid vehicle

things before Model 39 where hand propelled invalid carriages, and things like a Model 8 would be a wheel chair of some kind

so for example

you had the AC Acedes Mk4-Mk12 Model 57

"AC Acedes" was what AC called that vehicle, and Model 57 was what the DHSS called it

if you looked at the VIN plate it would say "AC Acedes MkXX" but it would not say "Model 57"

for example this picture "AC acedes Mk11" (the AC Acedes Mk4-12 was known as the Model 57 by the MoH/DHSS) but notice that it does not say Model 57 on the plate as that was the government's designation for it

 

overtime for whatever reason some vehicles became more known by their manufacturers name

for example most people say/know the Invacar Mk12, as the "invacar Mk12" rather then by its MoH/DHSS name of Model 66 (no one says "I found a Model 66" they usually say "I found an Invacar Mk12"

where as other vehicles became known more by their DHSS name

for example most people just say "I found a Model 67" rather then "I found an AC Acedes Mk15"

 

however the Model 70 was built and designed specifically on request by the DHSS, as such it was never given a "marketing name" Model 70 was its "marketing name" as well as its DHSS name

 

most previous invalid vehicles where while by this stage heavily influenced by the DHSS, where still "made" in hopes of a wider market then just the DHSS (although the MoH/DHSS was obviously the primary market for them at this stage)

before the Model 70, companies would make/design an invalid vehicle and show it to the DHSS in hopes for a contract etc

where as with the Model 70, the DHSS went and asked first rather then wait for the companies to present them with something

they went to AC and asked them paraphrasing "build us the end all and be all of invalid vehicles" and the DHSS was much more involved in its development then previous vehicles and as such the Model 70 was born

(supposedly they went to AC, as AC had more experience building "real" cars then anyone like Invacar etc)

 

as you can see here 

 

it just says "Model 70" rather then any sort of manufacturers name

(its interesting to note that there is Model 70 Mark A and Model 70 Mark B, however the Mark suffix was never filled in on the chassis plate for some reason)

it also worth noting that there was the Model 64,  which was an electric invalid vehicle specifically requested by the DHSS, that also never got a marketing name as such and just says "model 64" on the Chassis plate

however most people call it the Electric AC Acedes, as it looks like a Model 57 from the outside

 

I hope this all makes sense! and im glad people are still finding my rambling somewhat interesting! and I dont mind the questions at all  

[Eyersey1234]

Thanks for the explanation

[500tops]

Have you tried to track down anyone who worked at the factory? There must be a couple of people out there that either supplied the parts or built these things? It would be nice to get some kind of record, whether that be photographic or verbal. 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

1 hour ago, 500tops said:

Have you tried to track down anyone who worked at the factory? There must be a couple of people out there that either supplied the parts or built these things? It would be nice to get some kind of record, whether that be photographic or verbal. 

^ Whs. 

LBF, without wanting to sound like a bellend, I can't help mentioning:

Where = location of something- WHERE did he go? 

Were = past tense of 'are'- they WERE sat in an Invacar. 

#teacherpedantmodenowoff