Project Mercedes Benz - W123 230E & W124 200E - Both happy and working ok

[Talbot]

Jack one rear wheel up. Transmission in park. Rotate the wheel back and forth.. can you get it to make the noise? Can you see slop in the driveshaft joints?

[Peter C]

Car is a manual.

 

With the transmission in neutral, with the car jacked up, when I rotate the wheel back and forth there’s no noise. The noise only occurs when there’s load imposed on the drivetrain.

[Talbot]

Put it in 1st then so you can load the wheel against the engine.

[Peter C]

Put it in 1st then so you can load the wheel against the engine.

Sorry, I don’t understand, how is that going to help with anything?

[Talbot]

With the box in 1st, the output shaft (propshaft) is held fairly tightly, just the slop of the box and prop joints. With the other wheel on the ground, you can load up the driveshaft in question by turning the lifted wheel. By rocking the wheel back and forth you are loading the driveshaft (and diff and propshaft) in each direction and hence will reveal any slop in cv joints or similar.

[Geep]

Clicking can be down to play in a propshaft UJ. Usually more noticeable at slower speeds coming off and on throttle. You should be able to recreate the noise with some slow moving shunting about including turning. 

 

Rear brake pad movement or clip/shim/retainer? 

[Peter C]

With the box in 1st, the output shaft (propshaft) is held fairly tightly, just the slop of the box and prop joints. With the other wheel on the ground, you can load up the driveshaft in question by turning the lifted wheel. By rocking the wheel back and forth you are loading the driveshaft (and diff and propshaft) in each direction and hence will reveal any slop in cv joints or similar.

Got it, I see what you mean. There is a fair amount of free play in the diff (which is normal) so what you are proposing is not feasible. Turning the wheel back and forth will reveal 27 years of drivetrain wear, not just a worn driveshaft.

[Talbot]

Turning the wheel back and forth will reveal 27 years of drivetrain wear, not just a worn driveshaft.

Absolutely, but if it makes the noise in question, you know its a shaft or joint issue and not something else. Also you may be able to see or feel movement between parts of the driveshaft as the wheel is loaded up which isn't visible under no-load conditions, especially if you get a handy* assistant to load up the wheel while you look/feel for play that should not be there.

[artdjones]

If it's unbolted from the diff play should be able to be felt when rotating the flange.If there is any.

[Peter C]

Heritage Motor Centre and cort16 - you are both big winners.

 

Yesterday’s inspection of the rear suspension was very brief. It was carried out post family shopping trip and quickly before the England game. I simply didn’t do it properly.

 

This morning I took the car for a drive, by myself, able to concentrate on the noise and possible symptoms. I noted the clunk also occurred off throttle. Back at the ranch I jacked up the car, got my torch and crowbar out and started poking things.

 

Problem found immediately. Front subframe bush had masses of free play. The new mounting was fine and the bush did not appear damaged by the welding during yesterday’s inspection so I assumed it was ok. Wrong!

 

With the wheel off and the hub supported on an axle stand, I lifted and lowered the car whilst observing movement along the top of the subframe and masses of looseness in the bottom washer when the car was lowered.

 

The offside was worse, photos are of the nearside, which I dealt with in the same way.

 

Very loose bottom washer:

 

 

I had a pair of exhaust hanger rubbers in the garage, which have a Mercedes part number on them, which are roughly the same diameter as the subframe bushes.

 

 

I removed the bottom subframe bolt and fitted the rubber ring between the bush and the bottom washer. With the bolt tightened up there was no more looseness in the subframe.

 

 

I went for another drive and silence, noise is gone.

 

Note: I have not repaired the faulty bushes, I have merely temporarily silenced them and now I know what the problem is I can plan ahead and have the bushes replaced. Investigations on the internet even suggest that the bushes can be replaced at home without special tools.

 

Thank you to everyone who contributed to my post yesterday.

[Tetleysmooth]

 biologically speaking, what would they be wanking?

 

Ever heard the expression 'having a boner?'

[Peter C]

I popped over to the Uxbridge classic car show this morning. Saw some cracking old Mercs.

 

First, an interesting 1980s Koenig bodied SEC:

 

 

 

A mint W124 300TE with 96k on the clock:

 

 

This would be nice if it had the correct indicators and wheels:

 

 

A few W123s:

 

 

 

 

Stunning W116:

 

 

And finally a tidy example of what Martin Brundle considers to be the best handling sports saloon of the 1980/90s:

 

 

There were many other cars on display but the above were the most interesting, at least for me. The autojumble stalls were poor and at £3 parking + £10 entrance fee it wasn’t the most exciting event. I doubt I will bother to go next year.

[Peter C]

Good news first. I’ve been away on holiday for a couple of weeks whilst the 200E stood on the drive. Upon my return the engine started first turn of the key.

 

I noted a strange fault a few weeks ago. With the headlights off, the indicators worked ok but with the lights on, the windscreen wipers would come on if I indicated right. Not a problem if I had a BMW but faults like this are a no no if one owns a Mercedes Benz. Research on the net suggested that the stalk is knackered. Cleaning the rear of the stalk with switch cleaner didn’t help so I ordered a replacement via Ebay, which I am collecting tomorrow. In preparation I’ve taken the old stalk off.

 

 

 

The first photo might suggest that removing the stalk was a complicated job but I had it out in 15 minutes.

 

Since I’ve had the car I noticed that the front right speaker would sometimes cut out. Cranking up the volume usually brought it back to life. W124s have strange speaker sizes with the front ones measuring 4.25 (or is it 4.5) inches in diameter. Bespoke replacement speakers cost more than I am prepared to spend so I fitted a 4 inch Kenwood speaker in place and sealed the small gaps around the sides with insulation tape. The original cover grille fits fine and the sound quality is excellent. Job done.

 

[chompy_snake]

If stalk doesn't fix .... Could be the N10 relay could have dry joints within.

You can open them up and re solder the joints then all is well!

 

My 97 W202 did the exact same thing with wipers/indicators which is how I know about it .... They are very similar electronic wise as the the W124 the pre facelift w202

[Peter C]

Picked up the new stalk today (bought on Ebay sent to my local Argos). Shame it’s a LHD part. The plug has an extra cable and the horn connections are completely different. If I tried to fit it, the symbols would be upside down.

 

 

The seller has offered a full refund and I’ve ordered another stalk, a second hand part but with the correct part number, which should be with me by Thursday.

 

Cock.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

You should try changing the stalk on a post 2001 C Class. What an utter bastard that was.

[Peter C]

The correct second hand stalk arrived midweek, took ten minutes to fit and... problem still there.

 

I did more research and found this:

 

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/n10-relay-soldering-repair-wiper-indicators-hazards-rear-window-demister.62702/

 

So, I identified the relay:

 

 

Removed and opened it up:

 

 

I’m no expert when it comes to dry solder joints but to me everything looked ok here.

 

I gave the switches a clean:

 

 

Upon reassembly, problem still there.

 

I thought about installing a switch to turn off the earthing to the wiper motor. Yes, a complete bodge but at least I could drive the car at night and use the indicators without the wipers going ape. I removed a lot of plastic trim from the scuttle to reveal the wiper motor:

 

 

Whilst I could see the wiper motor, the wiring was tucked in underneath and was not accessible without a lot more dismantling, so I gave up.

 

Before packing my tools away and giving up for the day I had one more fiddle with the stalk and noticed, with the front of the car parked close to the garden gate, that the offside headlight dimmed as the indicator went on. I know very little about car electrics but I know a bad earth problem when I see one. When I was having the inner wing welded, I removed all the wiring from the vicinity of the offside headlight so I had a look there first and found a loose nut and bolt, which secures a bunch of earth wires.

 

 

To tighten up the nut and bolt I had to remove the headlight but once tightened up, the headlight no longer dimmed and the wiper remained static when flicking the offside indicator on. Sorted!

 

I obviously did not tighten up the nut and bolt enough when I refitted the wiring post welding repairs. My fault entirely but there’s nothing I can do about that now. I’m so pleased that the problem is fixed and I don’t have to spend more time and money. Phew!

[Peter C]

With everything broken fixed, I had a crazy idea to actually put the 200E to use. A trip to the tip is not exactly a major event but its a start.

 

 

 

I got a couple of fleet photos this morning.

 

My toys:

 

 

My entire fleet:

 

 

Damn, my lawn looks sad.

[Peter C]

Whilst my front wing repairs are holding out as far as rust is concerned, unfortunately the paint finish has acquired an unwanted off white patina and the brush strokes were more visible than ever.

 

 

In the spirit of this project, I decided to improve the appearance of the wings using only whatever I already had in the garage.

 

1. Left over spray can of white paint from a R129 SL that I got rid off over three years ago.

2. Two sheets of sand paper that I foolishly bought from a pound shop.

3. Left over masking tape from a recent redecoration project of my son’s bedroom.

4. Old copy of The Sun, which contained a saucy pic of Ola Jordan.

 

I rubbed down the old Hammerite finish as best as I could but unfortunately it was not possible to feather in the paint and lose the raised edge. Then came the paint.

 

 

 

Once the paint dries and hardens I will cut it back to get a better finish but already the wings are looking better.

 

 

 

Some people (not on this forum) highly criticised my wing repairs, suggesting that the copious amounts of filler that I used will crack and rust will come through in a matter of weeks. I’m not suggesting that I did a proper job but hitherto the filler has remained solid and no rust has come through.

 

One happy W124:

 

[Peter C]

Took the 200E to the Knebworth House classic car show today. Not a great event, £9.50 entry, tiny autojumble and mostly Fords and British tat on display.

 

In the car park, this little Alfa’s exhaust noise was disproportional to the size of the car.

 

 

I did spot a cracking W116 280S with a four speed manual gearbox, 41k on clock, lovely and very much my sorr of thing.

 

 

 

Money shot:

 

 

Next Merc related spot was this tidy 119k mile W126 300SE, for sale at £4.5k. No leather, I guess the asking price reflects what the owner paid for getting the bumpers rechromed.

 

 

 

Non Merc car of the show had to be this Tatra:

 

 

 

I don’t like going home empty handed so I bought a mint Mk2 VW Jetta tail light for £0.20. There’s gotta be profit in that.

 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

That 300SE looks alright.

 

I must be getting soft in the head.

[Peter C]

I filled the tank up on route home and worked out the fuel consumption between fill ups. 37.5MPG! Ok, the 200E hasn’t seen any traffic and most miles were clocked up on M and A roads but that’s still impressive.

[Peter C]

I went to Poland for a long weekend and whilst there I acquired some old German number plates. There’s something so right about a white W124 with German plates.

 

 

 

My W123 joined in the fun.

 

 

 

And the two together:

 

 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Hansestadt Hamburg for the 124, Essen for the 123.

 

I still have a couple of HH plates nailed to me workshop wall.

[Peter C]

The 200E usually gets used over the weekend and remains static, under a cover, during the week. When I first crank it over after it’s been standing for five days it takes 3-4 seconds to start and for the first 5-10 seconds it runs a little lumpy. After this initial imperfect phase the M102 fires on all four and runs just fine.

 

I investigated the condition of the ignition system. When I first bought the car I checked the condition of the spark plugs and all four looked fresh.

 

Removal of the distributor cap revealed that one of the two screws that secure the cap was loose.

 

Inside of the cap:

 

 

Rotor arm:

 

 

I can’t see much wrong with either. I cleaned the tip of the rotor arm and the pick ups inside the cap and reassembled everything ensuring that the two screws that retain the cap are tight. The engine hasn’t been run for four days and started immediately at the first turn of the key.

 

I’m going to keep an eye on things and see how the engine behaves when starting. Decent quality new plugs, leads, cap and rotor arm would set me back over £100 and may not make any difference to the performance of the engine, money I’d rather not spend. I wonder what effect the winter weather will have on the engine. I’ll soon find out.

[Guest Hooli]

That Tatra is lovely.

[Peter C]

I noticed that when lifting off the throttle, on occasion, there would be a light and brief surge in power before engine braking could be felt. I know that M111 engined cars are precious about having sparkly clean throttle bodies so I figured that the same may apply to the M102 engine's injection system.

 

I bought a can of this from ECP for £2.79.

 

 

Removing the air filter housing cover revealed the airflow meter flap. I wouldn't say it that it was gummed up but a squirt of cleaner and wipe with a cloth removed a lot of oily deposits.

 

 

I then started the engine and whilst keeping the revs up with one hand, I squirted more cleaner into the air intake. I don't know what the chemical composition of the cleaner is but it chokes the engine and creates massive amounts of smoke at the other end. Not particularly environmentally friendly!

 

After the clean the engine idled high for approx 30 seconds, then settled down to normal speed.

 

 

We're off to London is a minute and I'm looking forward to seeing whether my efforts reported in this installment have any positive effect on the engine's behaviour.

 

Sitting pretty and awaiting its next outing.

 

[Peter C]

After the Knebworth House classic car show I promised myself that I won’t bother attending any more random events. However, the weather was nice today and I fancied taking the 200E for a drive and I ended up going to the Farnham classic car show.

Nice that the car park attendants recognised the 200E status and pointed me in the direction of the classics only reserved spaces. I ended up parking between a Triumph and a moody Roller.



Another mediocre event but I did pick up seven old car brochures for a fiver. Car of the show for me was this Silcoo converted Lincoln Continental. The headlights are pure sex.

 

Following yesterday's throttle cleaning shenanigans I am pleased to report that the surging has stopped and the idle is also smoother.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Merc looks good. Worth investing in a pair of genuine wings?

[Peter C]

Merc looks good. Worth investing in a pair of genuine wings?

I think so. I’m scanning the classifieds and Ebay for a decent pair of wings, preferably finished in white. My 200E will never be a minter but a pair of rust free wings would help with aesthetics.