The Epic Austrian owned R16 from Germany doing French things in a Parallel Universe near England Saga

[Junkman]

We're getting somewhere.

Not sure where, but that's where we're getting to.

 

 

Next step boot remediation.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

Looking good! 

[somewhatfoolish]

We're getting somewhere.

Not sure where, but that's where we're getting to.

 

Column change manipulation frenzy?

[Junkman]

Eh?

[tooSavvy]

Alarmingly the material to do such a thing can be purchased for money; why it's appropriate that sticky backed plastic embossed to look like checkerplate exists is not clear to me.

I have seen 'hi wear flooring' (stuck to steel plate backstairs in shops) which is a sort of checker plate embossed pattern rhinofloor

 

TS

[Squirrel2]

We're getting somewhere.

Not sure where, but that's where we're getting to.

 

 

Next step boot remediation.

Hi Junkman,

If you have to do any repairs in the boot area you will find that the R16 petrol tank sits in a well in the boot and its top is the boot floor.If needed to be out of the way for welding it can be unbolted and completely removed without too much hassle IIRC.

 

When you are in that area check the condition panels on the inboard sides of the rear dampers where they form a 'tower' for the damper to work in. This area did not seem to get much attention from the underseal gun and may be crusty.

 

Squirrel2

[Junkman]

There is no rot anywhere in the boot, save a tiny pinhole at the rearmost edge of the boot floor where it meets the back panel.

There is a lot of surface rust though around the petrol tank, but no rot and thus nothing serious.

I'll treat this like I treated all the other surface rust hitherto, I brush on a coat of rust converter gel, wire brush the living shit

out of it, then meticulously clean and paint the area with that stinking black metal paint.

Most of this surface rust is caused by the total absence of the fiberboard that actually forms the boot floor, which allowed

the rubber mat to grind away the paint on the elevated ribs.

 

For the ones not familiar with R16s: The boot floor has a big rectangular hole into which the petrol tank is inserted, which

thus is a large part of the boot floor. The floor itself and the tank as well are heavily ribbed for strength. To equalise the

floor level differences, there is a fiberboard made from the same stuff as the backs of wardrobes sitting on thin foam strips

glued to the ribs. This has been discarded long ago, so the rubber mat has ground off all the foam and the underlying

paint down to the bare metal. Condensation underneath the rubber mat has then caused all that surface rust I now have

to deal with. It's a miracle that the sender unit on top of the tank, with an electric connector and a live wire running to it,

hasn't been destroyed, i.e. shorted and set the petrol tank on fire. There is a recess where it is located, but still,

the only thing covering it for years was a 3mm thin rubber mat onto which all kinds of wares were thrown.

R16 parallel universe anti gravity surely was at work here. Or just pure unadulterated dumb luck.

 

 

On a different note, it is fascinating how the asymmetry caused by the different wheelbases continues practically throughout the car.

The towers in which the dampers are aren't opposite of each other.

The entire rear wheel houses aren't opposite of each other, thus I had to cut the sound deadening mats in that area individually

left and right, not by folding one in half and cutting it symmetrical, as you would with other cars.

They seemingly completely abandoned the idea of symmetry also in areas that have nothing to do with the different wheelbases.

For example, the engine is set so far back, that it protrudes into the cabin. Thus the bulkhead has this big box formed underneath

the dashboard. This is offset to the right, so the driver has a bigger footwell than the passenger.

I bet this wasn't reversed on RHD models.

[Timewaster]

Alarmingly the material to do such a thing can be purchased for money; why it's appropriate that sticky backed plastic embossed to look like checkerplate exists is not clear to me.

I used it to cover a pair of rough looking interior doors in a shop fitting job once.

 

Looked okay ish.

 

For cars - it's a no!

[Junkman]

Boot floor done today. Sorry for the shit photos, but sun.

 

 

 

Here you can see how stepped the damper towers are.

 

 

[Squirrel2]

Another FWD Renault with the asymmetric wheelbase that is possibly even rarer on British roads now, is the 14. Renault used the different N/S - O/S wheelbase length in their advertising at the time, like it was some new marvel completely ignoring the fact that all the FWD models with torsion bar suspension that preceded it, had this 'feature'.

 

In the 1980s my Escort and Maxi driving colleagues were horrified by this when I mentioned what I considered to be the clever engineering of the R16 at the time. Taught me a lesson..

 

Squirrel2

[Junkman]

If one weren't benevolet, one could call it half arsed.

The question remains - were they aware of the advantages at the time they designed it,

or were they as surprised as the subsequent users how well it works?

The French were good engineers until 1986, no doubt, but could they foresee this,

or is it just the resullt of a workaround that coincidentally turned out to be good?

And why did they later abandon this layout despite its obvious benefits?

[Junkman]

It "steps" over ruts in the road, thus the shock usually transmitted upwards into the car's structure is literally split in halves.

This provides an unparalleled ride comfort on roads with ruts, like for example the M6 through Birmingham.

I also already noticed that it practically nixes speed bumps.

 

Once the mills of bureaucracy have finsihed grinding, I urge you to jump in and try it out.

[RayMK]

In lesser cars, approaching speed bumps at a slight angle does wonders in preserving one's internal organs.  R16s do ride exceptionally well, with less of the stomach turning plunging that hydropneumatic Citroens exhibit on humps.  I do not suffer from car sickness but when travelling in the back seat of Dad's GSA I came close.

[Junkman]

Wahey!

 

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

Wow! Unique reg too!

[Junkman]

Yeah, and very valuable too if your name happens to be AMJ512F, which reads Steve someone sure is going to tell me.

[Junkman]

Look what some sophisticated* Carcheology revealed:

 

 

[Sloth in a bowl]

Yeah, and very valuable too if your name happens to be AMJ512F, which reads Steve someone sure is going to tell me.

 

 

Do you know anybody called Adam Murial Jones with a 5.0 litre flat 12 Ferrari?

[Junkman]

No, but I know Richard, who owns a Fiat Panda. Does that count?

[Supernaut]

In lesser cars, approaching speed bumps at a slight angle does wonders in preserving one's internal organs.  R16s do ride exceptionally well, with less of the stomach turning plunging that hydropneumatic Citroens exhibit on humps.  I do not suffer from car sickness but when travelling in the back seat of Dad's GSA I came close.

I don't get this whole car sickness in hydropneumatic Citroens thing. I've been a passenger in my own Xantia for a reasonable distance and I was fine. I also drive it like a complete dick and I'm still fine.

 

The only car to ever make me feel even slightly queasy was my parents' old LR Discovery 2. It had been converted from air springs to coils at the back. When sitting in anything other than the front seats, it was fucking awful.

 

 

 

Anyway, good work Junkman. Great to see you cracking on with this!

[Junkman]

I regularily puked in the back of my father's DS.

[Supernaut]

Perhaps I had travel sickness drummed out of me at a young age.

 

My dad used to fly the little Cessna planes. You know, they were basically a mk1 Fiat Panda with wings. So noisy you had to wear an intercom. I would go with him frequently. He would pull some silly stuff too. I never once puked.

[Junkman]

As a kid, in Summer, I was also more on boats on Lake Wolfgang than on firm ground.

I never got even remotely sick, neither did I ever on some trans ocean sailings later in life.

I never got sick in any car except the DS.

[Dirk Diggler]

Every time there's talk of an R16s suspension this comes to mind

 

[Junkman]

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

Achieving the V5C is marvellous news. A Paris car eh - I'd have thought there would be more dents!

 

It interesting to read of the effect of the staggered suspension - the R16 certainly rides extremely well. Jaguar may have been trying something similar when the designed the rear suspension of the XJ40. The wheel is capable of moving backwards as well as up and down. Jaguar said this was to increase compliance on large potholes. Have you sold your XJ40 now, or do you still have it?

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

 

 

I suspect they grip well if you have the courage.

[Junkman]

XJ40 made way for the Green Lean Machine.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Every time there's talk of an R16s suspension this comes to mind

 

 

Ah, the days when the French used to prioritise wheel travel and momentum conservation above all else. Between 306 and 307 Peugeot seemed to forget all they knew about suspension engineering, whilst Renault seems to have decided that body roll is an evil that must be vanquished at whatever cost to ride quality. Citroen, with only Peugeot hardware to work with, seem to have just given up. Take a modern Renault across that field and you'd lose a few fillings and (probably) your sanity, the R16 just glides over it nonchalantly.

 

The irony is that on the roads round me you could take any ludicrously underpowered old French shite and easily keep up with modern stuff, with its suspension seemingly tuned primarily for lap times. In the BX it was a regular and tedious occurrence to become stuck behind some Audi or BMW as it reached the limits of its wheel travel, its driver forced to slow down and wrestle it into compliance as it pitched and bounced virtually uncontrollably. I'd imagine they'd be well pissed off if this R16 appeared in their rear view mirror and refused to go away despite their best efforts.

[Junkman]

Oh no!

 

I removed the old car smell.