Garage Diary : Sunbeam Motorcycle resto's..

[Bfg]

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Pottering around in the garage the other afternoon saw me fitting the head-steady / top snubbers ..

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^ the component parts of the Sunbeam engine's head-steady. This is a rather neat design detail from the 1940's that I think would be hard to better value engineer even 70+ years later.  There's nothing here to support the engine (..the two engine-mounts do that),  but the rubber snubber blocks do stop the top of the engine from moving sideways (ie. they counter the torque reaction of an in-line engine &/or the sideways swing of using the kickstart).  The clever part though is that the (above left-hand) plate and spring assembly is a friction damper.  

Rubber engine mounts have, for any configuration and weight, a certain vibration frequency ..whereby the harmonics of reciprocating mass and the elasticity of the rubber are in sympathy,  when the engine will tend to dance around and bounce on the rubber. The chassis and engine designers work together to ensure the harmonic do not coincide within the vehicle or machine's normal operating range.  The engine mount's shape, their thickness and hardness, their location and angle of installation, as well as the design of engine mounting plates are a best compromise ..for any one set of criteria.   An example of this was my '66 Jaguar S-type saloon which originally had been sold with an automatic gearbox.  Later in life this was swapped-out for a manual box with overdrive from an early XJ6.  But the rear engine / gearbox mount (a steel coil spring) hadn't been changed.  Most likely because of the difference in gearbox weight or c. of g. distribution, and/or operating speeds - things were not as smooth as they ought to have been ( also the exhaust pipe joints were being stressed).  Discovering and changing that spring made a world of difference to the feel of the car.  

Some designers and/or the mechanic don't get it quite right though, and resultant extenuated vibration can be clearly felt at certain revs. Often that means the vehicle is driven a little faster or slower, or in another gear to find a 'sweet spot'.   My last Norton Commando 850cc long-stroke parallel twin literally had vision-blurring harmonic vibration around 20-25mph ..which made town driving almost unbearable.   As an aside - this is when I bought the Sunbeam S8 for my daily commute through town to work.  The Norton was superbly smooth at other speeds but because of this 'issue' the bike fell into disuse.  Eventually, I discovered that by changing its head steady (coincidentally also springs) ..it moved those harmonics to around about 45mph, which was easily ridden through, not least because at higher rev's the vibration was not nearly as bad.

So, to alter the characteristic 'bounce' of rubber and therefore the combined harmonics, the Sunbeam has this damper. The assembly consists of a mounting bracket with vertical tongue (above, top of photo, painted black) which clamps around the frame's top tube. And there's the plate (chromed but originally painted black) which bolts onto the back of the cylinder head and onto which are mounted two rubber snubbers. This is all that needed to stop the engine from rocking sideways. 

But then to the left of the photo is another plate used for a friction damper (also originally painted black). This bolts to the frame clamp bracket and otherwise hangs down to overlap the engine plate.  Inbetween these is an oval shaped friction pad (made of the same material as a clutch friction plate). The two plates are held together by the pressure of a spring.  As the engine vibrates on its two rubber engine mounts the snubbers control the big sideways movement and the friction damper works to absorb vibration. 

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^  For clarity (above) this is how it goes together (sans the spring & its cap ) with the friction pad sandwiched inbetween the two plates.  The large diameter hole and adjacent two larger studs is (sometime later on) where the distributor will be fitted - taking its drive from the camshaft / cam-chain sprocket.  The long slot across the bottom has a cover that is fitted over the six studs.  In the meantime - the photo helps illustrate the simple way to correctly align this assembly.

1.  With the (two) main engine mounts and front/lower snubbers (previously) set correctly.
2. The engine's head-steady plate is temporarily but securely fastened to the cylinder head with a few nuts (thick washers under those).  The clamp around the frame is loose enough to freely move forward n' back along the frame tube and/or twist around - so its forward-downward projecting tongue sits evenly inbetween the rubber snubbers.  [ NB. that tongue is loose on many bikes, and is intended to be held tight between the bolted-up clamp. Like many before, I weld mine to one half of the clamp - as it makes assembly much easier.  I also use a longer bolt and a spacer-tube for the lower fastening of the clamp, so it now extends wider than the plate to get a (1/4" Whitworth) socket onto its nut. ]
3. The top plate is adjustable (up n' down relative to the frame clamp) and is set whereby the friction damper's spring bolt is positioned central within its oval hole (see above).  That is important - as it allows the engine to bounce around on its mounts without this fastening hitting the inside edges of that plate.  The tubular sleeve around the bolt fits into the hole through friction damper pad to hold it steady.  In use it doesn't move relative to the engine plate, which is bolted to the engine .. it only moves relative to the top-plate. 

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^ The clamp around the frame is presently still loose, because it needs to freely slide forward along the frame tube until the top-plate and the engine-plate sit parallel / flat to each other ..with just the friction-pad sandwiched inbetween them. 

         4. The conical spring is now loosely fitted within the cap and sitting on a thrust washer. The spring can be compressed by hand just enough to fit the lock-washer and its nut

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         5.  The spring's fastening is tightened - which squeezes the two plates flat to each other, with the friction-pad sandwiched inbetween.  The position of the top-plate needs to be checked and adjusted to be central across-wise and up n' down (above, blue marks) relative to the spring. 

         6.  the frame's clamp is then moved to sit flat against the top-plate, and the top-plate to frame-clamp bolts can be loosely pinched-up ..with the top-plates reinforcing tabs positioned vertically.

         7.   ...at the same time, the frame-clamp can be rotated - so its forward-and-downward projecting tongue sits evenly inbetween the rubber snubbers.  The frame clamp's bolts can then be tightened.  Only then is the top-plate to frame-clamp bolts tightened.  That's the damper set up. 

This ought to be good without subsequent adjustment, but because the main engine mounts may 'settle' with use - it is worth checking they don't need re-tuning after a hundred or two miles. 

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        8.  The head-steady / top snubbers can be removed with the damper and clamps all tight. Shouldered nuts, which sit into key-hole slots in the engine-plate's top bracket, hold them in place. They are (sometimes) fitted with shims to lessen the clearance between the rubber and the frame-clamp tongue.  Personally I feel shimming flexible rubber blocks to thousands of an inch a bit of a piss-take. I use a skinny penny washer if it fits in there, otherwise if there no room for that then nothing.  imo that is close enough tolerance  ..and I really don't care if there's 0.025" gap or if the two rubbers are squidged just a little ..not least because I've never bought a pair of new snubbers, and I'm sure after 70 years the shore-hardness of the rubber I use is 'a little off ' from the original design spec.  On this engine I fitted one penny washer inbetween the plate and the left-hand-side snubber.   

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^  These brackets and also the nuts and bolts were originally painted black, so the chrome bits you're seeing here are all from the special treatment this bike had in preparation for the Queen's Coronation celebrations in 1953.  I don't know what exactly was chromed at that time but I do have photos of the bike taken in the 1980's and there was a whole lot of chrome plating evident from then.  As it is mostly hidden under the petrol tank and the distributor, and behind the cast aluminium rocker cover and rear access cover I not sure I'm going to worry about it too much.  I'll very likely spot a little silver paint over the grubby bits one can see while counting rivets but that's more to prevent any further corrosion.

Anyway job done, engine mounts are now correctly adjusted.  

Sounds easy enough, so why are they so often wrong. ?

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^ these plates show uneven wear from where the friction damper has been missing (..for a long while). The arrow points to the corner of the engine plate bracket which should protrude a coupe of mm.  The friction pad is positioned by the sleeve around the central spring bolt, but the protrusions prevent it from rotating.  The top plate which I'm seen holding shows wear grooves from it was face down on those protrusions. Do people not see or hear this sort of thing ?  Or is it that "all Sunbeams are shyte" because they make all sorts of squeaking and rattling noises and vibrate horribly ..when they are put together by total morons?     I sorta guess that applies to any car or motorcycle.   

I bid you a good weekend ,

Pete.

[Bfg]

. Ok here's a quick update of latest progress.. 

 

Starting off with getting the electrical box in place, which sits just below the saddle on the right-hand-side of the bike.   Within it, aside from it being the main junction box for electrical connections, are the coil and voltage regulator - so there's a decent amount of weight in there.  On its hinged door are an ammeter and the combined ignition / lighting switch.  Inside the door are spare bulb holders .. a nice detail. 

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^ The pressed metal construction is pretty tough, but a support plate (shown) fits on the underside to prevent the holes from splitting. Of course over the course of many years quite a few bikes have it missing ..and yet I've rarely seen a split box. Never-the-less, as I have them - I'll refit them.   The battery box (2nd photo) is slightly larger in size and of similar shape, but a mirror image, as it sits back-to-back with the electrical box. Inside that is a hefty cradle (Right in 2nd photo) to take the weight of the original type 6v battery.   

My intent is to move the battery (I now use a modern gel-battery which requires no maintenance) to the smaller and less-convenient-to-access tool box, which sits on the bottom frame tube next to the left hand footrest, so immediately below the old battery box.   And I'll leave the battery cradle in the garage, as I'll be using that box for tools and as a general purpose hold-all.  I decided to modify a spare electrical box backing plate (I'm holding in the 2nd photo) to fit this box, but isn't making slotted holes a pain ..in the ol' flat plate ! 

Where these boxes are suspended under the frame, directly under the saddle, there's another little plate ..also with slotted holes.. 

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^ I had one of these, but not another for the second bike ..so while it was off - I used it as a template to make a second. 

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^ although I temporarily positioned both boxes (to ensure they were aligned to each other and the frame) - I then took the battery box off for easier access to the distributor and when re-tightening the cylinder head bolts while running in.   NB. the small plate, I made a copy of, sits on the top of the electrical box (indicated by red arrow) and its main purpose is to lower the box by that 2mm plate's thickness - so the hinged doors of those boxes doesn't scratch the frame.  It's an odd detail which might easily have been overcome by combining the frame's two brackets and lowering it by the 2mm.  Hey ho., I'm probably missing something profound.

 

Moving on., with reassigning the use of the tool box ..as it used to be, to now be the battery box. .

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^ two modern 6v - 4.5ah gel batteries (taped together) I've been using.  These are petite compared to 1940 - 50's  6v lead-acid batteries ..and they'll tuck nicely out of the way, inside the (former) tool box.  To level the box's floor (which has the heads of its mounting bolts protruding)  I cut a piece of 3/8" thick plywood to fit in there. Subsequently painted, I then glued a couple of strips of rubber to its underside, so as to offer some insulation from vibration.  I also drilled a 3/8" (10mm) hole in the rear curved face of the steel box, through which I'll run the battery leads to the electrical box. There's wiring to the brake-light switch and horn down there anyway, so the battery wires will run together with those. 

Although no fuse was fitted originally, I use a spade-type fuse (within a watertight holder) on each of my bikes., so I'll place that conveniently - for when I want to connect the top-up battery charger.  And yes, I did touch-in the paint around the hole I drilled.    

I acknowledge moving the batteries to down there is bit of a compromise ..not least because the former battery box now has to be removed to get these batteries out and off the bike, but that's not a big deal me as it's not something I do very often.  And I'll just make the old battery box q.d.  That occasional inconvenience is little compared with now having a usefully sized (double the volume of the tool box) and easily accessible handy cubby hole box to stuff 'thing's in. 

- - -

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^ for ease and to save my back while I fit the engine's ancillaries & exhaust, and to do a few jobs on the wiring - the bike is now back on the lift (home modified) . Under the white-painted crate is a Sealey bike lift,  which I found to be useless when changing the engine oil and otherwise very dangerously unstable.  But with the (3/4" thick plywood) crate bolted onto it, and the extension to support and securely clamp the front wheel,  plus the addition of legs under that end - it is now a useful bit of kit.     

You might note from the above photos that I've deliberately kept the lift-table size small, both because it's annoying to walk into protruding square corners and this size is much easier within the confines of a normal garage.  Being on rollers it's easy enough (on my smooth wooden floor) to move it aside &/or to push out of the way when not in use.  Every commercially available table I looked at was too big (..and flipping expensive).

 

So moving on., with the exhaust pipes . .

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^ aluminium headers and (as fitted to Nudge) stainless steel down-pipes .. looking Ok., but a little dreary from that bike previously being used for my all-weather commute to work.

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^ With a good bit of elbow grease - the down-pipes in particular came up better than I thought they might.

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^ Yes that's pretty  

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^ It's an after-market down-pipe, supplied by Stewart Engineering, which for some inexplicable reason are always too long (see arrow). I've had this several times when I used to restore customer's bikes. Then I'd have to chop 3/4" off the top of the tubes. Those fitted to Nudge (as bought and subsequently used) had a stepped kink in its flexi-pipe ..but it's a job which I really ought to do correctly now.

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^ Conversely., these are the chrome plated steel down-pipes off Pudge  ..which as you can see are the right length (height).  As this is Pudge's engine, I may as well use these for now, and sort out Nudge's later on when I fit her own engine.  

So back to polishing..  these pipes and its aluminium headers.

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^ I'd already had these apart so there was less work to do.  The gasket face of each header (..to the cylinder head) did need redressing back to being flat though.  The above shows the olive used to (mostly) seal between headers and down-pipes, and how the screw collar joins and clamps them together.   It works very well as a very firm assembly, but the exhaust gasses blow through the split in the olive. 

I'll fit them for now, knowing that this will blow ..and I'll come back after a few heat cycles (starting the engine and letting it cool again several times - to let things settle in place). Then I'll apply a little exhaust sealing putty.  Again during assembly I use copious amounts of Coppaslip, which smokes like anything for the first 5 minutes ..but it does help prevent corrosion and binding of the aluminium threads, as well as helping the pipes slip together and be unstressed. 

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^ Next up was to clean the exhaust silencer. On the S8 (Sunbeam's more sporting model with slim section tyres), which Nudge is, the exhaust silencer is cast aluminium and of a narrow upswept design.  I guess it is Art-Deco in style ..which I think is rather nice.  I don't honestly know what the original finish was - but I'd guess it was most likely to be cast matt or grit-blasted finish with just the styling flashes being polished bright.   Of course, over the course of 70 years, these exhaust pipes get salty and scarred ..and have otherwise been polished and then scarred again.  If I was getting anything else blasted I'd take it back to matt, but as I'm not - I'll quickly rub it down and polish it up yet again.  

Can't really complain when one thinks that this (very likely to be a 1953 exhaust silencer) is still going strong and in use today !

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^ Polished, fitted and if I might so  - looking rather neat. 

So, another job done. 

The clamp for the back end of the flexi-pipe (which of course is used because the engine is rubber mounted) extends inwards and is bolted to the underside of the frame, so the silencer's front end is held secure.  The silencer's weight is mostly carried on a hefty stud through the base of the rear suspension upright.  There is also another bracket, from the down-pipes to the underside of the gearbox, but for whatever reason that bracket has been cut off.  That's of no concern, as I've done without it before - and not had an issue.

Just one last piccie for today, and that's taking a step back to earlier in the afternoon when I loosely positioned Pudge's  exhaust silencer on this same bike and down-tubes.. just for comparison. . 

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^ this is the Sunbeam S7 and S7-deluxe exhaust silencer.  I understand that with the narrow wheels and tyres on this bike (an S8) the rounder and lower set silencer tends to grind against the road on hard corners.  The fat tyres of the S7 are enough to make the difference. 

To our eyes, its chromed metal may look quite commonplace  ..and with its mounting clamp (by the rear suspension) being on top - not so attractive as the (less expensive when new) S8's silencer.  I guess in the 1940's ; cooking pots n' pans were made in aluminium whereas chrome plated fittings were something special.

I'll leave that thought with you. Have a good evening,

Pete. 

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[Bfg]

On 5/22/2020 at 6:29 PM, Bfg said:

I've just ordered a couple of these 6v - 14ah batteries, for the two bikes I'm working on.  I was about to order 6v - 4.5ah batteries as I've used before, but these work out cheaper (£16.90 each as opposed to two x 4.5ah at £9 each) so I've saved a couple of quid,  and instead of each bike having 9ah they'll now have 14ah,  and  I'll not have to make up the wires to link two batteries in parallel.  That works for me.

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ebay link < here >

Batteries arrived today and I was surprised that they were a.) Yuasa batteries,  b.) they are 12ah,  and c.)  it says on the front "Designed For Standby Use" . . .

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^ The e-bay advert is misleading but I'll give it a try anyway.  I'm not worried about it being 12ah rather than 14 because they are replacing 2x 4.5ah = 9ah batteries.  "Designed for Standby Use"  is of concern because that implies very trickle charging ..so  I tried to call the seller on the number given on the delivery slip and on their ebay listing but that didn't go through (as if it's a disconnected line).  Hey ho.

Good news is that the size of the batteries works very well in its new location . . .

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^ with this battery sitting on a pad of 1/4" neoprene, on top of the 3/8" plywood, which is sitting on foam rubber strips to isolate the battery from vibration - the height in the box is perfect. The lid of the box is a domed so there will be enough space for a 1/4" thick pad on top as well so the wires will not touch.  The narrowness of this battery (2") also means that this battery can be fitted or lifted out of its new home without disturbing the (former battery-) box above it. - That's an unexpected bonus 

There's another 1/4" thick pad of neoprene inbetween it and the outside of the box and 1" polystyrene packing around the other three sides. so it's snugly in there and cannot rattle around. 

As long as it works re. charging I reckon it should be a neat improvement, insomuch as in freeing-up the sizeable former battery box for things like my waterproof over-trousers and in offering easier access for tools stored in there. 

Pete.

 

[Bfg]

On 9/14/2019 at 8:51 PM, Bfg said:

All back together and the next test ride revealed the dynamo wasn't working properly. You may recall I had issues with this before and thought it was now sorted (after having replaced the voltage regulator) but apparently not.  Back home I removed it ..yet again (for whatever reason some of these are a bitch of a tight fit !) and took it to a local alternator / starter motor repair shop. They couldn't find anything wrong with it, so I sent it off to Stewart Engineering (again). They had it before and said it checked-out OK. This time they said the armature caused the 'growler' to vibrate at a certain angle. That indicates there's a localised fault and the darn thing needs rewinding. And because that's a hand worked job it costs a lot..  £200 just for the tiny armature.  

Katie’s dynamo, received back from the specialist ; Robson & Francis Rewinds - London, SW16  who rewind them, was refitted yesterday, but still doesn’t work. That's now twice to Stewart Engineering and twice to Robson & Francis.   I had a prospective buyer,  wanting to come up from Gloucestershire to look today but cancelled / postponed due to this not working.  Today I checked again to see if I might be missing something obvious ..as to why this now armature rewound dynamo is not working (when the one of Nudge does work fine) and then removed and wrapped it up for posting off to ‘the magneto guys’, Hailsham.   Apparently they can test rig it..  4:30pm so I’ll now go to the garage tomorrow to send it off.

This will be the fifth time ..so I'm now walking around with a big-time negative mindset.   I've (expletive) had enough.

[PhilA]

I've got one of those batteries (or a very similar model of the same specs but different connector layout) and it accepts a rapid charge of 5-6 Amps without getting hot, making bad smells or generally being unhappy.

I've had no real problems running them for 6-7 years in hard deep-cycle use. They may be designed for standby but they tolerate regular use just fine.

 

Phil

[Bfg]

..It's been a long time since I was here..  Far too much has happened since June, starting off from the 27th May when totally out-of-the-blue my landlady gave me notice to leave.  No fault on my part, it was just her brother decided he wanted to live where I was.  But my moving house n' home on my own (due to the pandemic) and to a deadline was both exhausting and stressful.  I had been there (that home) for over sixteen years and with having to clear the garage and everything else - it was a massive upheaval.  Because of my financial position it also meant downsizing from a spacious home with garage and two sheds to ending up in a studio apartment + a 20ft shipping container < here >.

On the bike front ;

Katie was put up for sale < here > and thankfully (only because I needed the money) was sold to a great lad from down in Dorset.  Her Dynamo went back to Robson and Francis five times I think and still it beat them. The buyer was kept informed of the issue and in the end decided to buy her as it was, and then to have it (the dynamo) sorted out locally.

Nudge was hurriedly put on the road, but with Pudge's engine in her.  That engine-fitting was done before the having-to-move shit hit the fan, and was decided upon because the original plan was to run-in that engine using Nudge ..because Pudge has freshly repainted frame and panels - and I didn't want to scratch them ..should the tank have to be lifted off and/or the engine needs to come out again, which with 70 year old mechanicals can happen.

^ Nudge  a London registered 1953 Sunbeam S8 (skinny wheels) is now reassembled as my 'daily-rider', but with moving house - I've only done about 50 miles on her since Pudge 's engine was rebuilt and fitted.  Unfortunately above 35 mph the bike / engine has an odd vibration and I simply haven't had the opportunity to try and identify why that might be.  The feeling is reminiscent of a when Nudge 's own engine had a broken big-end / conrod bolt, so until I have a chance to drop the sump and check that out - the bike is under wraps in storage.

 

And Pudge 's forks and rear suspension were hurriedly rebuilt and refitted, so that she was at least a rolling cycle and therefore easier to move . . .

^ Pudge,  also from 1953, is a Sunbeam S7-deluxe (with fat tyres) and so is big sister bike to Nudge.  She was first registered in the same borough of London just five weeks before Nudge, indeed it was on the day after the Queen's Coronation which probably accounts for both being painted the silver metallic colour.  This colour was standard on the S8 but is almost unheard of on an S7-deluxe ..which were usually a light pea-green colour, or black by special order.  Subsequent to the above photo I've now also reassembled her cantilever saddle mechanism.   

I no longer have this spacious home ..with the bike's restoration slowly happening in the front room, and now - especially as the weather is damp & cooler, and the days are shorter - I'm struggling with self-motivation to get on with jobs.  My new working space is now just a narrow 4' x 8'-6" in the end of a 20ft shipping container, with a 12v battery and LED lights as there's no mains power . . .  so I have to side step around the bike.  Still I did build in a bench and almost everything from the old garage is squeezed in here, so - if I can find it ! - I ought to have the tools and parts to do the reassembly.   Without excuses it's now just a matter of getting off my arse and getting my mind back into a positive moving-forward mode.   

On Thursday I did just that, with the intent to starting the rewiring.  Doing that (rewiring) now is a little odd, before the engine is in and the rest of the bike (mudguards and headlamp shell, etc) have been reassembled ..but I thought it would be a steady sort of job to get my mind back into gear.  Firstly though I felt the urge to paint inside the bike's 'electrical boxes' while they were still empty . . .

This particular bike is unique insomuch as so many of the parts had been chrome plated.  I don't know when this was done, whether it was part of dressing her up beautifully for the Coronation or else it was a subsequent customisation.  I do know that to do so involved stripping the whole bike down with engine out, and then also many brackets and all the electrics removed.  Other than that I only know that it was done before the bike was bought by and used as a studio prop by Mike Prior Photography in the 1980's.

 

The condition of many of those chromed parts was a little rough (pitted &/or dented) and so I'd had some (..unfortunately in retrospect - not all) of them re-chromed.  The problem with chrome plating is that the insides of a box don't get the same protective coating as the outsides, indeed acid dip cleaner tends to sit inside the corners and under brackets and then rust the item from the insides.  Anyone who had a chromed exhaust silencer may be familiar with this problem. 

^ the above shows (from left to right) the tank's knee pad mounting plates, the tool box, the electrical box, the battery box and the lid of the tool box. The tool box's chrome was OK so only its lid was re-chromed but still, the inside of box had surface corrosion.

With wire wool and wire-brush heads of different configuration on a cordless drill, I subsequently cleaned the rust and looser plating out of these and painted them.

^ I used a little more of the POR-15 petrol tank sealant paint I had left over (which I'd bought when living in the US some 20+ years ago !). The paint is sort of metallic silver and is probably twice as thick as it used to be. Applying it with a paint brush was clearly going to look horrid so I dolloped out the paint and used my finger to wipe it around and into any pitting. That worked amazingly well and I'm quite pleased with the final finish of this protective coating ..bearing in mind it's only inside the boxes which will have a battery or wiring stuffed inside them. 

As an aside you can see in this piccie my little workbench.  My old camping stove provided me with a cup of coffee, and then - using a stainless steel snack-tray for heat dissipation., a little warmth too.  Not quite home from home but I know that a few comforts like these help my motivation.

 

So there you go, really not much news at all but I'm hoping my posting updates on here will help me get back into the routine of steadily doing jobs and recording progress ..And that'll help with boosting the ol' mojo.

Bidding you an enjoyable and possibly productive weekend.

Pete.

[plasticvandan]

Yes I thought I recognised it,your Sunbeam lives about 10 miles from me

[Bfg]

21 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Yes I thought I recognised it,your Sunbeam lives about 10 miles from me

^  "as I now live five miles from Sherborne"  I gather you're referring to Katie.  You ought to touch base with Russ as he's a really great lad and between him his family and friend they have a number interesting cars & bikes. He introduced himself here on Autoshite a month or two ago.  

Pete.

[Bfg]

a little step forward yesterday afternoon ..and a leap backwards

This is the front cover off the Sunbeam's electrical box, with apertures for the ammeter and ignition / light switch.  Uniquely this lid was at some time chrome plated, and over the years that had become a little pitted and scratched - so I had it and others re-plated.   When doing so it hadn't registered how tight the ignition / light switch had been in its hole, nor had I realised just how much the plating might further reduce that hole size.

It seems that the platers had been very generous with their copper as the hole had gone from 53mm to a little less than 52mm in diameter. and as a consequence the switch didn't fit (either the old one nor its brand-new replacement).  Conversely the ammeter's hole is a little too big, so I fitted it with a layer of gaffer tape around its outside to stop it turning around.!

What could I do ?  ..either take the diameter of the switch down or to try to cut off the excessive build-up from the edge of the hole.  As the new switch was the same diameter as the old one - it was the hole that was now incorrect.

Despite the cost I'd just paid out to buy a new switch - I first wanted to try and take it down in diameter.  But to do this - I needed to dismantle it, otherwise I knew I'd end up scratching its chrome bezel.   Being an aftermarket switch (albeit in a Lucas box) it was not going to come apart without great risk in breaking it.  The guts would come loose but flanges from its inner lock had been swaged over.  And without damage I couldn't get the switch lever off, and so also not the bezel.  It then took an age to put it back together ..as it had been.  

Then I had little choice but to correct the hole's diameter.  A craft knife blade followed by fine emery paper did the trick, but, however careful I might be, the chrome plating cracked and lifted away from the copper.  I sorta hoped that the overlap would hide it and prevent it flaking, but I was on a fool's errand . . .

 

^ The cracked and flaking chrome in the cover, around the ignition/ light switch, is more obvious in a close-up photo than by eye, but clearly it wont look very good and in time will only get worse each time a cleaning cloth snags on an edge.  Today I'll brush clear lacquer into those cracks and under the flaking chrome to see if that will prevent further damage, and then I'll carry on putting the bike together.  But sometime that cover will have to be sent off again to be re-plated. At that time I'll open up the hole by another mm to avoid this happening again.  

It's very disappointing, but is the nature of trying to get an old bike (or classic car) to look anything near as-good-as-new or to a concourse standard. Once you set off down the full nut n' bolt restoration, repaint and re-chrome path - then you're committed.  Credit to those who achieve it.  Although for my part - I'd be happier with a non-concourse bike and to go for a good ride.!

Pete

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[Bfg]

In concluding my Moving home during a Pandemic topic < here > I wrote  . . .

" The container is showing slow but steady progress with my attempts to sort things and to clear a box out from here or there.  Indeed I'm trying (struggling) to get myself into gear and be of mindset to get on with jobs.  That's going to be an uphill struggle but at least I've made a tentative start on my bikes, and I've even got the camping cooker out to make myself a cup of coffee.  That's noteworthy progress !

^ I'm pretty astounded by how much of my former home, garage and shed's contents I've packed into the Tardis .. plus the workbench and a full sized motorcycle on its lift.  There's not a whole lot of room to sit around, but on the other hand my scheme.., to be able to access everything I have in store (even those things in the very back corners), has on the whole worked out well.  There's a few obstacles in the aisles that I need to step over, or to move aside if I want to delve into a bottom drawer, but that's not prevented me from finding what I've been looking for (aside from the income tax return form and an LED lamp which have gone awol ).  Hey Ho, I'm sure they'll turn up - now that I no longer need them.!

Nudge, my other Sunbeam, I had parked in the corner of the farmer's big shed (paying an additional £15pcm / £90 for six months, keeps it out of the winter months damp & blustery weather), but today I decide to pull her out to do some more running-in and to tackle any teething problems than may arise. . .

^ my vehicle empire ..as it presently stands !

This afternoon I checked the oil and then went for a slow but steady ride ..another 28 miles closer to being run-in, but also a pleasant jaunt through Suffolk's rolling countryside in low autumn sunlight.  The cool air is good for engine cooling whilst the engine's bearings and cylinder bores are still tight.  It did pinch up at one point but nothing unexpected nor serious.  And I'm very pleased that she's oil tight.  Time will tell how long that'll last !

And then tucked in for the night . . .

^ there's not enough space to (effectively) work on either of the bikes when they're slotted in like this, but it is at least convenient and secure parking while I'm running that engine in.  Once it's done and any issues sorted then I've decide to immediately swap engines (back to being the correct engine in each bike frame) so that I can get on with reassembling Pudge  ..the Sunbeam S7 presently being restored on the bike stand (previously long-term resident in my home's front room). 

So, that's the plan of attack ..so I need decent weather and a bundle of good-luck for running-in over the next two weeks please.  My target is 500 miles of running in, so 25 mile jaunts twice a day ..with doing other jobs inbetween.  A target like that will help keep me focused and that is necessary if I'm to achieve anything worthwhile (keep moving in the right direction) this winter. "

. . .

So, picking up on that passing comment re. Sunday's ride when it pinched-up (seized) ... 

I had steadily ridden about 14 miles to that point when the engine locked up.  To anyone only familiar with modern bikes (post 1970's !) that must sound quite dramatic, but it's happened to me so many times on these engines, soon after they've been rebuilt, that it really isn't much of a concern, indeed the possibility of it happening is even mentioned in the owner's manual.  As an engineer, I find it just a little disappointing ..especially after the care I put into rebuilding an engine and then subsequently how gently I myself run the bike in.  But on the other hand it doesn't seem to do much but score a few ugly lines down the face of the aluminium piston and otherwise does no damage to the bores.   My friend Andrew is almost paranoid about it, and I'm sure that has stalled his own bike's engine rebuild for at least two years.!  He is convinced that it should never happen ..and perhaps it'll destroy the engine forever, or blow up in his face, or otherwise dump him and bike down the tarmac.   

When I rebuilt these bikes professionally - I would run the engines in for their first 200 miles, which allowed me to get over their inevitable pinching-up and then also to give me a chance to torque things down as and when they needed it (heat cycles expand & contract the metal parts of the engine and that of course compresses & relaxes both the oil and cylinder-head gaskets).  Customers seeing even a minor weep of oil from their engine - tend to over-tighten the fastening unevenly which distorts the aluminium. And if they see the head gasket blowing - then they surmise that the rebuild wasn't done properly.  But that's just the nature of the classic vehicles - they need a loving hand throughout their infancy. Yes, they'll leak n' fart at first but given time and kindly training will grow to control themselves.  I'm sure those customers who only gave me their engines to rebuild, rather than the whole bike to sort out, were upset and disappointed with me when it happens, but then who knows ..because none ever came back to complain.   

When rebuilding a worn engine I take this into consideration and deliberately refrain from a rebore unless the cylinders are damaged or worn more than .005".   This bike's particular engine (out of Pudge) was rebored but Nudge's own engine bores were worn to over .006" ..as previously discussed < here on April 1st >.  Because of covid restrictions preventing me from getting to a machine shop I opted to use them as they were, but with new rings ..and those I sized (filed their end gap) for the tightest bore diameter. 

When this bike's engine pinched-up / locked up / seized on Sunday it was very typical in-so-much as just beforehand the bike suddenly feels sluggish, stutters, and the engine note changes a little, then the back tyre locks up and the engine stalls. I guess the natural reaction is to pull in the clutch to keep the bike in a straight line, and to then ease it off again to keep the engine turning (although not running).  I slowly come to a stop in 4th gear, which keeps the pistons moving in the bores - so their aluminum skirt(s) don't stick to the liners.  Having come to a halt, still in top gear - I immediately walked the bike backwards (easier than trying to push forward while sitting on the bike).  Again this is to keep moving the pistons in the bore, to stop their sticking within the cylinder bore.  After just two or three minutes of this I started the bike again and rode off to continue the ride for another 22 miles. 

Sages of old warned about riding too fast while running-in and perhaps it was as much for the rider's safety when the rear wheel locks up and the tyres loose adhesion as much as anything to do with the preservation of the engine ! ?  Of course I'd be very glad to hear of your ideas and any preventative action or solution to this happening.

You may ask yourself why didn't I let the engine cool down before riding off again so soon.?  

Well the answer to that is three fold ; 1.  the engine needs air flow over it to cool the engine ..and its cooling-fins and shape have been designed for that to happen effectively while the bike is being ridden steadily along the flat ..and that of course includes cold air-fuel mixture taken in through the carburettor which helps cool the cylinder head, the piston crown, the valves and valve guides.  2.  metal parts within the engine expand when they get hot, and the design tolerances between different metals are designed to be right ..for a running engine, not for one that is stewing in its own heat.  I have experience of an engine seizing not while running but after the bike had been stopped and allowed to cool 'naturally'.   3.  oil is pumped around an engine as it is running - which is essential lubrication to prevent seizing ..and equally as important is that the oil carries heat away from hot spots  (..to then be cooled via dissipating that heat-energy through the engine's castings). 

It's very important to note that the underside of the pistons, their skirts & the cylinder bores are lubricated and the heat dissipated by the successive splash of engine-oil released from the big-end shells (centrifugal force flings it out of the designed clearances). But unless the engine is running - that oil splash is not  happening (even when the engine is turned over by lever or by rolling the bike in gear).  So to have that oil-splash-lubrication, you start the engine- and then the bike needs to be moving through the air to prevent it getting hotter and hotter still !

As a thought ; a better way to rebuild an engine may be in two stages, one to do the rebore and to run-in those bore, pistons & rings with plenty of splash lubrication from the big end shells, and only when it's covered a thousand miles or more - to then have the crank reground for new big-end shells.

These Sunbeam engines do take a thousand miles to run-in and although 4 out of 5 lock-up's happens within the first 200 miles, there is still a 20% chance of it happening later. After 500 miles that risks is considerably lower (the big-ends are a tad looser and more oil is splashed around) but as the engine is still 'tight' with internal friction from all bearing surfaces - it will be running hotter.  So cool spring, winter and autumn days are good for running in. Otherwise early morning during the summer months are best, &/or after rain. Dry roads are of course better if your rear tyre is likely to loose traction, and low altitude sunlight doesn't dry into corners and behind hedgerows.  At this time of year there is a lot of mud from tractors who have been ploughing before winter as well as autumn leaves being blown all around. 

Low altitude sunlight in your and other driver's eyes is a very serious safety hazard at the beginning & end of the days. Suddenly noticeable here in Britain when the clocks change from summer to autumn.  At the moment (6th November in the east of England) the low sunlight becomes particularly dangerous after 3:00 pm. Sunset is today is 4:17pm.  Of course going up a hill means the sunlight is more in the driver's eyes.  Meandering off-the-main-routes B-class roads where you can safely ride at 30 - 45 mph are needed if you're not going to be run over by drivers in a blinding rush.  

Taking about rush ..I really need to get on as I have a list of jobs and another 50 miles or so running in to do in today's beautiful sunlight. 

Have a good day,

Pete.

 

[Bfg]

My piccie of the day . . .

[Bfg]

My piccie of the day . . .

.    

[Bfg]

My piccie of the day . . .

 

[PhilA]

Enjoying the engineering edge of your writing- though it does show the change from "this is derived from aviation" compared to "built by robots" of today's metallurgy and engineering tolerances.

Makes me smile that at least a few people "get it" still- after having had an argument with a very intelligent but stubborn gentleman who insisted that the 4 stages of the Otto cycle are wholly independent of each other during the times the valves are open. 

I don't think you'll ever get aluminium or an alloy therein to exhibit completely uniform crystalline structure in older castings, so it locking up until it's worn the hard points down is going to happen. All part of the fun. 

 

Phil

[spartacus]

Following with great interest Bfg, sorry to read of your housing capers but pleased to see the progress still being made. That's a fine looking bike.

[Bradders59]

A very interesting read indeed. I may have a chance to buy a Sunbeam soon. A 1952 S8 if my memory serves.

Trouble is, it was dismantled several years ago and much of it is stored in boxes. Would need to find out what might constitute a reasonable offer for the contents of the boxes, and decide if Im genuinely up to trying to replicate this thread. 

[Bfg]

^ Most probably you first ought to seriously consider ; is a 1950's Sunbeam 500cc motorcycle what you'll want ? 

Any vehicle (car or bike) from the pre or post-war era, through to the 1960's has an appallingly low power to weight ratio.  And although these Sunbeam featured overhead camshaft, a squish-principle combustion-chamber design and a host of other very advanced features, they still had only 6:1 compression ratio and their mass of crankshaft, the camshaft profile and carburation are poor.   Export models had 7.2:1 but you probably wouldn't notice the difference.  Sunbeams are really solidly made with very heavy frame & cycle parts, mudguards, and electrical boxes, so 26bhp (on a really very good day) equates to being out accelerated by a Chinese scooter weighing half as much.  Cruising speed on a Sunbeam is 55-60 mph which is fine for good B-class roads but no fun at all on a busy rush-hour A-road ..nor a motorway.  Brakes are good considering the bike's era but you'll need to anticipate well in advance and to habitually use the back brake in balance with the front.

I'm not trying to put you off, only to emphasis that your mindset needs to encompass 1950's travel ..if you are to enjoy such vintage vehicles (of any kind).

..A bike (or classic car) that is dismantled was often not done so for a reason but for a dozen or more reasons ..because a singular failure-to-proceed issue doesn't lead to boxes of bits.  So the bike was stripped down "for restoration".  But it's very likely that the person who started into that (and took the bike apart) didn't know what really needed to be done.  Often the thinking is 'well., everything needs to be done'  whereas I'm learning a much better approach is to have a rolling restoration ..and to sort out one mechanical or electrical issue at a time.  And only when the vehicle is in excellent mechanical order, run in and reliable, do you then strip it down for repainting and chrome.      

In retrospect, I ought to have done this with Pudge, but I also made the mistake of pulling her apart to restore the paint ..and before I realised it led to everything  being restored (..it was a case of the rear mudguard was ugly, but if that were repainted then the tank would look shabby, and then the headlamp shell, and then the fork shrouds, and then the chrome, and then the engine, and then the suspension, and then, and then). However., I do have the advantage of having ridden a few Sunbeam S7's and know that I very much like that model of bike.   And I'm fortunate in having a second bike (Nudge ) which I can use as mule to run-in her engine, to sort out any teething problems, to make sure the clutch and gearbox / starting each work well, and to ensure the ignition, charging system and carburation are all good to go.  It's a rolling restoration for mechanical and electrical parts, while Pudge  is being restored cosmetically, and with rebuilt suspension, steering & brakes, and a new wiring loom. 

If you do go ahead then you'll have to go through the learning-curve of how these machines work and the peculiarities of how they are put together. That's fun and interesting ..if you really like and want the bike, but otherwise it's very time absorbing and possibly a little frustrating. Good news is that the SOF forum has helpful members, my own website (..for the link please see the footnote to my posts below ) and several others provide a great resource of information. And Stewart Engineering (Poole, Dorset) can supply any  part you'll need. Their prices can sometime be a little on the high side but considering the full range of bits they carry for a motorcycle made 70 years ago - that service is really exceptional. 

A very  nice and also proven reliable / roadworthy S8 will be worth £6000+.  Hovis  was very tidy and mechanically fine but a long way off concourse, and I sold her for £5500, so if an investment - you'll need to do some maths.  The likelihood is that unless you pick up that project-bike for very little money then you'll not earn much for your time in restoring it - if the purpose is to sell-for-profit.  Of course, if you love the bike then that doesn't come into it.  But as I asked  is a 1950's Sunbeam 500cc motorcycle what you'll want ?

I trust you'll see from my recent photos (..and perhaps from my own website) that I really do enjoy owning and riding these bikes.  I very much like the idea of post-war travel at a pace that is somewhat detached from the mind-numbing 21st century. It seems more in harmony with riding through beautiful countryside, where the scenery and the passage through changing seasons is more pleasurable than how quickly one can get around the next blind corner, how tightly one can squeeze passed other traffic, and/or how fast she'll go on the straight.  

Pete

^ My friend Chris's S8 is a gangly looking oily-rag of a Sunbeam, but no less a characterful personality to enjoy ..just as she is.

[Bfg]

Mid -week update ;  The bike's running-in is going reasonably well but, as always, slower than planned due to my not taking into consideration ; days off, time taken for re-torquing and sorting out various minor but annoying issues, wet weather, short daylight hours and generally my mindset / laziness in getting out there to do the job.  The tacho read 8126 when I first fitted Pudge's rebuilt engine in September and it's now 8389 miles.  I'd ridden just 26 before, and during, moving home  ..and between a-week-on-Sunday and yesterday (nine days) we've covered another 237 miles. That's half of what my target was, but Hey., with my present state of mind - it's been better to have achieved half than to not have set a target and have achieved nothing.!

And as you might gather from the recent piccies - it has on the whole been very pleasant.  I rode 77 miles on Friday, up to 50+mph speeds on the A140 and across on the A143 to the aero museum, near Bungay,  and then on the way back found myself on a long upwards incline on a road I couldn't safely go slower on.  The engine seized again and was reluctant to restart.  Thereafter she wasn't happy - but did get me home.  When I got back there was oil all over the place ..from places I'd never seen on these bikes before (that is.. all at one time) such as the front crankshaft oil-seal (into the dynamo) and also the seal to / through the distributor.  The rocker-cover nuts were also weeping as was the crankcase breather cap. There was oil around the spark-plug holes and the tailpipe of the exhaust was also wet with black sooty oil. The spark-plugs were glistening with oil ..which possibly accounted for poor running. These symptoms point to valve-guide failure ..whose job it is - to keep the oil in the engine rather than being sucked into the combustion chamber (via the inlet valve-guide) or through the exhaust (via the exhaust valve guides).

I took the weekend off ..in part due to wet weather but mostly because I was upset to think the engine had to come apart again.  History ;  On another Sunbeam engine I had used Scholar Engines to replace the sintered-iron valve-guides ..and they cracked them during fitting.  We had 'words' (..not for the first time) and I said (to myself) that I'd not use that company again ..but I had.  On this engine I'd had them make and fit bronze valve-guides (more expensive but self-lubricating and unlikely to crack). Unfortunately when I saw the job I was disappointed that the valve-in-its-guide tolerances were rather slack.  

After the weekend sleeping on the issues / thinking over the symptoms and possible causes - I had hope to think that the valve-guides may in part be at fault but that was not all there was to it.  Even cracked valve-guides wouldn't have accounted for the excess crankcase pressure - which was forcing engine-oil out passed what ought to be good seals.  However the converse, ie., excess crankcase pressure would push oil through relatively slack fitting valve-guides.   So on Monday I went to the Tardis, pulled the bike out and did a compression test. 

^ I started the bike with both plugs in as usual and warmed the engine. This makes the bike easier to start on just one cylinder ..when a plug is out and replaced with the compression tester.   The readings were low but on the other hand were the same for both cylinders.  So that means - the wicking Loctite I'd used around the rear cylinder's replaced liner had worked to seal that gap ..and we were not loosing compression passed the sleeve into the crankcase ..which in turn would have built up excessive pressure and caused the engine-oil to weep out of anywhere it could.   Btw., low compression and higher crankcase pressure goes with piston rings and their bores not having yet bedded in.

So then I reckoned on checking other things and in particular paying attention to the crankcase breather.  With the bike back inside, it was off with the petrol tank and rocker cover. .

^ I'd moved Pudge and the bike lift out of here and into the farmer's big shed - so that I had some space to work on the bike, but even with the bike moved over to one side there's not a whole lot of room for someone of my size to get in there and work.  Nevertheless it's as good as I have ..so I had to get on with it !

.      .

My handy swiveling office chair (less backrest) is easier than having to constantly bend over or else be down on my knees. 

 

The inside of the rocker cover was reworked a little insomuch as it was a rough cast finish. And as you might just make out from the previous (open rocker cover) photo - I use a rubber grommet on each of studs, as seals under the cover.  It's not standard ..just another one of those little Peter-mods, but of course the roughness of a casting around the holes couldn't hope to be oil-tight seal - so I locally smoothed the casting off . . .

^ I also swapped the fibre washer I use under these nuts for a larger one (20mm OD opened to 3/8" ID) and also ensured the top of cover, around the holes was both flat and level.  These should have been done during the engine's rebuild but on that occasion I had been against a deadline to move house and I knew this sort of detail could wait.  While in there I checked the valve clearances, which ought to be 0.018" on these engines, and three of the four valves were a tad too open. Another task - quickly addressed.

The main thing I wanted to redress though was my crankcase's breather pipe, which is taken from the cap on the front of the rocker cover.  Here I hoped might be the cause of my high crankcase-pressure woes.  The incongruous sharp-edged cap is an add-on from Stewart Engineering, as the original (1940's Sunbeam) scheme was to breath the crankcase-air through an open cover on the front of the rocker cover  ..which would then splatter crankcase oil mist and emulsified oil-moisture down and over the front of the engine. ! ?

Sunbeam's design is to have three disc-valves (one-way valves) through the front of the cover which allow more air out of the crankcase than into it. It's not 100% but it as long as they are in good order then they are sufficient to create lesser than atmospheric pressure inside - which in turn minimises the amount of oil being pushed out passed seals and gaskets.    Some time ago I bought some neat little plastic in-line valves which I put into the breather pipe.  They have worked well in the past and so it was done on this engine. However I suspected my mistake was in fitting it just a couple of inches away from the disc-valves, whereby at certain engine revs - the two valve's pressure waves conflicted ..And so instead of creating a negative crankcase-air pressure they conspired to do the opposite.  It's just a theory but one which was easily altered, simply by moving the two valves systems away from each other. .

^ the old and hardened plastic breather pipe replaced with this clear flexible pipe, and the in-line one-way valve has been moved way down (27" away). from there the black pipe goes into a plastic catch tank that I Velcro to the frame (tucked away behind the exhaust down pipes).  Naturally the breather pipe was likewise tucked away behind the frame.

There were a number of other jobs done, not least re-torquing the cylinder head down, replacing an ill fitting petrol pipe and the likes, replaced a gasket to the rear inspection cover, and readjusted the rear engine head steady ..but nothing much to talk about. Thereafter (yesterday) I took the bike for a 32 mile run.  I haven't closely inspected the bike since I got back for oil leaks but, if there are any, they weren't noticeable when putting the bike back inside at dusk.  She was running sort-of OK but is still vibrating more than I might hope and has an occasional misfire ..so today the plan is to swap out the distributor for another and to try that.

So that's it for today.. I think the high crankcase pressure issue may have been most resolved (..more by luck than anything perhaps) but of course until the bores are run in then it will still be a little higher than usual.  Time will tell if it settles down well with another distributor or whether I need to change the carburettor too.?

 

 

^ Yesterday was heavy low cloud but the rain held off.  On the way back I stopped to buy some scrumptiously-huge Bramley cooking-apples at this little Suffolk cottage.  £1 a bag.

That's it for now as I've got to get going, so I'll bid you a good day.

Pete.

 

edit.  I was just checking my grammar and spotted a modification that someone (else) has done to the rocker cover ..

^ the three holes drilled through the transverse baffle (yellow arrows but more clearly seen in the RH photo) - should NOT be there.  I've come across this once before on a customer's bike, and it's wrong because the oil splash from the timing chain (located behind that baffle) is blown through the holes into the rocker-cover chamber.  Whereas the crankcase-air's pressure-wave should be coming up via the drain hole by the camshaft. This (pulsating crankcase air) blows draining engine-oil back over the camshaft's lobes and then there is a steel-plate baffle above the camshaft itself to lessen the amount of oil mist over the rocker arms ..where the valve-guides are and the breather vent.  In short, if there's a flood of oil in there then more oil will come through the valve guides and that then will be seen in the combustion chamber and exhaust silencer.  So those holes need to be filled in.

 

[Bfg]

 

I did get to the bike this afternoon and although I still have one or two minor engine-oil weeps - Inspecting the bike subsequent to my 32 mile ride yesterday - I do seem to have managed to eradicate the worse cases.   I also swapped-out the distributor, cleaned the plugs and then went for another ride, via a petrol station before heading out into the low warming sun (aka ; riding off into the sunset) ..mid-Suffolk direction.  It's not a route I have been riding and so it's purely by coincidence that I did another 32.5 miles today.. 

Having changed nothing else but the distributor - the bike is noticeable smoother between 35 and 42+ mph in top, which is where the vibration was at its worse. There's still notable vibration around 30mph in third but that's not much of an issue because it's just when I change in top anyway.  And when the bike is run-in then I'll be accelerating through that in third before a quick gear change ..either way it not detracting from the ride when pottering around.  I'm wondering if that vibration is directly related to the exceptionally light flywheel fitted to this engine ? ..you may recall I previously I wrote of it having been machined a tad too much. 

Anyway, I'm also disappointed to report the engine pinched up / seized yet again.  It didn't happen yesterday and I hoped we were getting through that stage. In fact of all the Sunbeams I have rebuilt and subsequently run-in for their first 200 miles - this one has easily run away with the prize for it happening most frequently.    It's also always been a flipping noisy engine, but I can't honestly hazard a guess as to why it should continue to seize nor why it might be loud (it's not localised it seems to be everywhere noisy !).  Conversely I'm very pleased with the modification I did to the cylinder head gasket. I've had no issues on that front.

I'll continue to run her in, and she'll either reveal the issue(s) by blowing up or else things might settle down or perhaps become more identifiable.  And in the meantime I'm still enjoying the rides through autumnal colours and Suffolk's beautiful rolling countryside with architectural gems.  

 

  ^ no,  the bike's not parked outside my studio apartment ..

..it's Hindlesham Hall, Suffolk.. Hotel, Restaurant, and Spa

Bidding you a good evening,

Pete

[Bfg]

While I very much enjoy riding a vintage motor cycle through the autumn colours and rolling Suffolk countryside, during the shut-down (..not a lot of traffic) I'd have to be honest and say that my bike is darn noisy.  Aside from a rather noisy engine - the exhaust silencer is I think actually amplifying the exhaust's note.  Indeed the bike sounds like a BIG single rather than a gentleman's Sunbeam ..which apart from being anti-social to anyone within earshot - is actually rather uncomfortable for me as the beats seem to resonate inside my helmet (and so why I swapped it out previously).

Yesterday I was browsing on-line for some perforated tube.  And today, in the hope of buying some of the right diameter - I took my the silencer off to accurately measure it's pipes.  The S8 silencer is rather stylishly made of cast aluminium and then there's steel tube clamped in either end. Welded onto those tubes should be baffles, but this one has non at all.  Sometime over the past 70 years they've gone AWOL.  The plan now is to buy some perforated aluminium tube and push that up inside, from both ends, which I'm sure will be a fun exercise to fit securely.  Anyway, it has to be done - because at present the exhaust note is a pain in the tinnitus.!

The pipes (in and out) were both OD. 1-1/2" (38mm) with the ID being approximately 35mm.  For now, until I get the perforated tube or sheet to make my own - I decided to swap this silencer with one off the sister bike ..an S7-deluxe. . .

^ Before
 

^ After

Inside this chromed (S7-d) silencer are two plates, welded across-wise like bulkheads, each with a relatively small central hole .. I didn't measure them but I'd guess they'd be about 7/8" diameter (hole size), and they then have a perforated metal tube spanning inbetween them. The exhaust gasses are therefore part restricted - to give back pressure, but otherwise the narrowed diameter is straight through.

I then went for a ride ..another 27 miles of running-in along B-category roads, including a few flooded corners draining from the fields after the rain we had yesterday and last night. The exhaust note is now acceptable and not so dissimilar to the previous S8 exhaust silencer I was using ..which was swapped with its engine before I sold that bike (HVS 655) to a nice chap, Andrew, who has since become a friend. 

The bike felt a little more gutsy at lower-medium revs and flatter at higher speeds. Whether that is real and perhaps attributed it its state of tune or just an impression of the noise - I cannot be certain, but it does tie in with my limited-understanding of exhaust back-pressure and the surprisingly (to me) amount of constraint / reduction (small diameter hole) through the S7's internal baffle-bulkheads.

Something else I was hoping for, but couldn't be certain of, was that it has now stopped the engine popping on over-run.  The notes are a little more abrupt ..but I attribute that to the engine's new camshaft, whereas on the previous engine the camshaft was worn and so the bike's performance was a little more subdued.

I'll let you know how I get on when I get the perforated tube and try to make ..and perhaps tune, the aluminium silencer.

Pete

[Bfg]

16th November ;   I've just ordered a new front tyre to replace the ancient Avon SM II ribbed that's perished.  I asked on the Sunbeam Fellowship forum about going up a width from 3.25-19 to 3.50-19 and two replies said it was OK.  So I looked on-line and had to decide what and which.?  I didn't want too modern a looking tyre and in the end I whittled my shortlist down to another Avon, a Pirelli City Demon, a Metzeler ME77, or a Dunlop.   Being a spoked wheel - I also needed a tyre which was comfortable with an innertube.

Hoping to same myself a few quid - I did in fact look at used and NOS tyres being sold on ebay and surprisingly most were already five to ten years old. The wise recommend replacing motorcycle tyres every six years, personally I'm happy with ten years ..as long as I know the innertube was also replaced at that time or sometimes since. But I'm also guilty of forgetting to check mine are in date.  I bought this bike 8 years ago and the tyres were then fine, and I've had a puncture and replaced the inner-tube in that time. Since then it was fine but then the bike was off the road for a year (as I was riding others) and since then I've noticed the front tyre at least has perished noticeably.

On the S7 (fat tyres on 16" rims) I am convinced tyre clamp are necessary to prevent the tyre from creeping around and then tearing at the valve, but on the S8 that doesn't seem to be an issue nor provisioned for.

In my humble opinion ..  Avon tyres are good and are hard wearing rather than particularly sticky or reassuring handling. The SM ribbed seems to have a rather small footprint in contact with the road, which I find tends to track quite a bit along ridges.  Pirelli's 'City Demon' sounded like an annoying scooter's tyre so I figured that might be a little lightweight for the heavy old 'beam.   Metzeler I have used before on a BMW (a similarly heavy bike) and I found them good to start with but as they wore they lost traction.  When I read the same in a review I decided to pass. 

Dunlop's TT100 is very familiar to me from my days on the Norton Commando. And despite their also having a tenancy to track along ridges - they were / perhaps still are a great tyre for that bike which I could trust for high-spirited all-season riding.  They are more expensive than the others but if the tyre is to last 10-years (with the mileages I now do) then the extra £30-45 fades into not being important.  So in the end I opted for the TT100 Classic ..and with it I'll be going up in size from the 3.25" width to 3.60".  I also like the fact that it is rated for use on either front and rear wheels. The mudguard (recesses around the forks) will be very close to rubbing but I'm hoping (..I'm taking a gamble now that I've spent the money) that it'll fit.

Shopping around for best price - I found Demon Tweeks < here > cheaper than ebay or any other.  Their innertube and rim tape were also cheap.  Total bill for tyre, innertube and a 30mm wide rim tape was pence under £112.   That's a lot of money to me but I reckon it's good value for safety's sake, for the reassurance and better handling, and for the expected lifespan of that tyre.  Demon Tweeks didn't have the tyre in stock so it will be ordered new from Dunlop and therefore the Dot code (date) will be as late as I might get.  Delivery is anticipated to be in about a week.

I'll let you know with fitting the new tyre myself and how the bike feels thereafter.

Pete.

[Bfg]

 

On 11/15/2020 at 6:27 PM, Bfg said:

The plan now is to buy some perforated aluminium tube and push that up inside, from both ends, which I'm sure will be a fun exercise to fit securely. 

Also ordered today < here > off ebay @ £9.99 for 1/2 metre which ought be enough for both the silencer on the bike and a spare which I'll clean up and sell. 

The exhaust silencer's pipe diameter is 1-1/2" OD with an inside diameter of +/- 35 mm, so dare I risk buying 35mm DO perforated tube because it'll be a good fit.?   Nope.. the possibility of having to reduce this perforated stainless steel tube's diameter by a few thousands of an inch - to get it to fit into the pipes in the silencer was not something I wanted to consider - so just to play safe I've ordered 32.5mm OD and a tube of silicon sealant to glue it in with.!  Yes horribly crude.  And anyone who wants to look up my exhaust and nick-pick is welcome to do so. I'll just start the bike while they are peeping up the pipe !  

      

Pete.

[Bradders59]

Wow ! A huge amount of very helpful info in that post. Many thanks.

If I bought the bike it would most likely be to restore and sell on. The thing to decide would be what level to restore it to. Reassemble and get it up ans running, or the full blown resto job. Possibly somewhere between the two realistically. Depending on how dismantled it is currently. I havent actually seen it yet.

Acouple of years ago I restored an old Honda C90 and was very pleased with the results, but the Sunbeam would be on a different level altogether.

Will post up about any developments if they happen.

Thanks again.

 

No idea why the image has loaded upside down, nor indeed how to fix it. Just turn your laptop upside down and it will be fine. 😂

There are about another 50 pics between the later two and the earlier ones, but you get the idea.

 

 

[Bfg]

 

3 hours ago, Bradders59 said:

If I bought the bike it would most likely be to restore and sell on. The thing to decide would be what level to restore it to. Reassemble and get it up ans running, or the full blown resto job. Possibly somewhere between the two realistically. Depending on how dismantled it is currently. I havent actually seen it yet.

Acouple of years ago I restored an old Honda C90 and was very pleased with the results, but the Sunbeam would be on a different level altogether.

Honda looks really nice.    I do like C90's.

The Sunbeam has a couple of electrical bits (..the distributor and the dynamo) which are quite expensive to replace or repair if they are needed.  Likewise so is the speedo. They're expensive because they are almost unique to the bike and demand outweighs supply.  The engine's main-bearings are also ..but that's because like many other part you may need to buy - are reproduced in very limited numbers.   And then, there are a few bits which are frequently missing with project bikes (the aluminium cover over the spark plugs, the tool box, and the air filter cover) which are expensive to buy as and when you can find them.  A nice 6v Altette horn is expensive - but they were also used on other bikes as well as cars and so cheaper one or a substitute can often be found.  If the bike turns out to be an S7-deluxe (usually green) with big fat tyres, then aside from the above there's also a unique cantilevered saddle.  If it's missing then that's £400 because second-hand ones are simply not available.  There's also a little more chrome on the S7.  If it's an early S7 (1946 - 48 and usually black) then unless everything is there - it'll take you ten years and a fortune just to buy the necessary parts for a full restoration.

However, assuming everything is there (..and original metal parts rather than fibreglass) - the expensive and time consuming bits in restoration are the details, doing things right, the paint work, and the chrome - This equally applies to almost any classic car or motorcycle, except with cars you have many times more issues with rusty panels and hidden structure.  Sunbeam mudguards tend to rust around bolt holes and around their bottoms, but it's thick metal and reasonably easy to make and weld patches in.   

If you were to pick up the basket case S8 project (all the bits were there) for let's say £1500 - 2k  and you were to quickly reassemble it to get the bike not only running but genuinely roadworthy, then you might well sell it for £4k. (..even if it rattles a bit and still needs to be pulled apart to be done properly).  If however you were to fully restore the same bike then it will cost you £4k on top of the purchase price and a huge amount of time ..and you'd still only be able to sell it for £5-1/2 to £6-1/2 k (..at current prices).   However, if you nicely and competently restore an S7-deluxe, which are now fashionable, then the cost of restoration would be much the same (plus the saddle if that is needed) but its value would be double that of the similarly restored S8. 

Bottom line ; imo and at this time..  from a purely money-making venture point of view 

• S8 - get it on the road as a safe bike, with a little bit of tarting-up but no real time nor money spent.  There's no real point in spending more to do a half decent restoration on this model, because the selling values don't change much.
• If it is an S7-deluxe - then it is better to restore it than to do a quick turnover.  The market value of this model is far broader and so spending more, even to just do a half decent restoration on this model, will be reflected in your profit.  

Of course if it takes you 20 years to do so then prices will have gone up ! 

Pete.

[Bradders59]

Thanks Pete. Im 61 now ,so spending 20 years on it probably isnt an option. 😂

The guy who owns it is well in his 70,s and unfortunately his health including eyesight are failing. He has owned the bike for many years, and took it apart quite a few years ago with the intention of returning it to pristine condition. As is often the case with these things, life got in the way and he has never got around to starting the job.

He assures me it is definitely a 1952 S8.

I think I would go for your first option. Clean it up, put it together so its roadworthy, then sell it on to someone who would really put the time / money/ love and care into it.

[Bfg]

^ Good fortune with your hopes to buy the 'beam.  Hope it's been stored in good order and all the bits are to be found.  You may find you like the bike and want to keep it yourself ..perhaps as a daily ride rather than as a restored bike.  Once sorted - they are really very easy to live with ..unfortunately the one I have here has proven to be a bit of a saga. 

But yeah.,  it's interesting at our age, mine being just a few years older than yours, when you start to think about the time-span of projects and their subsequent use, and money and the number of one's future years.  My own family have tended not to be long-lived so I give myself ten years, indeed my dad died at just 68 ..which if I follow suit doesn't give me much time for any of my retirement hopes and plans.  

Hey up.., might as well enjoy the day. . .

today's piccie..   ' Hedgehog cottage' Lavenham, Suffolk

Lavenham is an extraordinary small town to visit for it's characterful 15th to 19th century architecture.  ..I do wish they'd build a bypass around it though for the trucks. 

..another 64 miles of running-in today, but dear old Nudge  isn't running particularly well    ..And I also don't honestly know why.  She soft-seized three times today (that's a record) and was running hot and is vibrating more than she should.  I had hoped things would have settled down by now but she's the roughest Sunbeam I've experienced.  Time perhaps to order another head-gasket set and then to pull this engine apart again.  And No that wasn't planned in this winter's schedule.!

I enjoy riding a classic bike. The vantage point of being a little higher than a car and the all around visibility means seeing over fences, around obstacles and across the countryside is easier. And the narrowness of the bike means that you can get by on b-class roads - even when a lorry or farm vehicle is coming towards you.  Similarly in narrow town streets you can generally continue through, whereas in a car you're forever stopping to let others pass (..not a big deal unless it's the height of summer - then you wish you were on a bike).  I was thinking about such things as I rode today, and then considering my plans to buy a classic open-top sports car.  It's not-at-all bad right now (during covid-shut-down) but normally, in places like Lavenham, you often can't find a parking space for a car. 

Conversely, on a motorcycle I'm more than just aware of the dangers of seasonal mud, wet & leaves on the road.  Of course I also have to clobber up for warmth, dry and protection - in case I, or someone else, should make a mistake ..and that is a pain in the proverbial when it comes to stopping for a walk around town, refreshments, or the toilet.  And then., there's not many pretty ladies in my age group who still want to be biking.  And even if there were - you can't have a conversation as you ride along, so sharing the experience &/or what your seeing is rarely "in the moment".  A car is very much more sociable and, aside from parking, very much more convenient. Mind you many ladies seem more concerned about their hair than the all round vision of an open-top car as well.   I'm sure if it had been windy on the day - Eve wouldn't have been in the garden to pick the apple !

Oh the difficulties decisions & dilemmas that afflict the old, the lazy and the rich 

Pete.   

[Bfg]

To recap : this engine has been completely rebuilt, with freshly honed standard-sized bores and original pistons but new rings.  In writing this blog, and copying across to my own website - I have a concise record of what I did with the pistons and their ring's end gaps < here >.  The relevant post is of April 2nd and I set those ring gaps to Hepolite's recommended 0.008", which is twice that of Sunbeam's own recommendation. 

After sleeping on it - I'm now thinking these soft seizures are not the piston in the bore, but perhaps the rear main bearing's end float. That was a little tighter than spec at .003" rather than 004" and is white metal bearing against polished end thrust face of the crankshaft (bottom of page 22 on that website).   So I'm wondering if the aluminium crankcase (at this time of year, and being out in the air-cooled breeze) is colder than the internals (the crankshaft with its oil gallery) ?  And so whereas normally (..in summer month's air temperatures) the aluminium would thermally expand more than the steel of the crankshaft, just perhaps.. the crankshaft and white metal bearing have expanded more than the case, and so the already tight tolerance becomes tighter still.?    

    IF., this is what's happening, then that bearing will take ages to bed in.   I've done 300 miles of running-in so far and short of taking the engine out and stripping it down again, there's not much I can do about it, save adding valve-grinding paste to the engine oil   ..just kidding.   Conversely as long as the white metal bearing doesn't crack and break-up from the shear stresses then it will ..in time, sort itself out.  

Taking the engine out wouldn't have been such an issue when I had a garage with the space to work around the bike, but since squeezing house and garage contents into a 20ft shipping container - space is very limited, and so an engine-out job is not easily done.  

 

Decisions, decisions, do I take the risk of continuing to ride the bike like this ?  As I've already done 300+ miles and have also just filled the tank - I guess I'll take the chance, for another 150 miles.  

As an aside the new front tyre I've ordered is due to arrive this afternoon. The old is perished and so I bought another to replace it.  However, with my being a right Twit - I made a mistake in reading its dot code.. Being three figures the number 024 is not the 2nd week of 2002, but the 2nd week of 1992 !   From the year 2000 those dot codes have four figures so that front tyre I'm riding around on is 28 years old !   oops.    And I now realise that the rear tyre ..which looks absolutely fine, with good tread and no sign of perishing is 24 years old..  Perhaps I'll do myself a favour and replace that as well. 

[Bradders59]

I envy your skill and patience. Dont think Im anywhere near your level to be honest. I gave up bikes for the sake of my licence,  just over 10 years ago, but was much more into riding modern sportsbikes than classics.

You never know, I might get bitten by the classic bug. I certainly wouldnt be at such high risk of losing my licence on one.

I know Lavenham reasonably well. I used to go there every month or so until about a year ago to collect the waste vegoil from the Butchers shop at the end of the high street, when I had my Merc 190D.  It is certainly a lovely old place.

[Bfg]

Ordered on Monday, delivered this afternoon and so I fitted the new TT100 front tyre ..with credit to Demon Tweeks for not only having the best price but also for their quick processing and delivery . . . . 

 

^ Although the front mudguard's stay swings down to be used as a stand to lift the front wheel off the ground, it much quicker just to lift the front onto wooden blocks. Then it's simply a matter of undoing a 3/8" W pinch bolt and unwinding the spindle (left hand-thread) with a tommy bar.  Once that's pulled out the wheel with brake drum drups to the ground, so then you just un-clip the end of the brake's bowden cable from the lever and the wheel's off.   Of course it does help that my spindle has a smear of coppaslip over it to prevent it seizing to the spacers inside the hub. 

 

Just like New Year ..Out with old and In with the new.   the old in this case being week 20 of 1994, and the new being week 36 of 2020.  What's that about the beginning of September the new tyre was made.

Dunlop Tyres made in Japan, what is this world coming to ! ?  ..I do hope it has better traction than the old Bridestone tyres ..made in Japan in the 1970's !

there were patches of rust inside the rim, not bad but worth dealing with while the wheel and tyre were off.  A quick run around with some wire wool and then sprayed zinc primer into the corner of the bead sorted that out. New 30mm wide rim tape to protect the inner-tube from chafing on the inside ends of the spokes was then fitted.  And then of course the new tyre and inner-tube.

Bottom Line ..

 

The new tyre is listed as 3.6 x 19 but it is in fact 3.25" wide when fitted. That's the same as original spec and the same as the Old Avon Speedmaster MkII.  Of course the TT100 looks like a 1960's tyre (ie., when it was designed) rather than a 1940 - 50's vintage rib, but if it's as good on the Sunbeam as it was on the Norton - then I'll trust it more.  The new inner-tube is by Michelin ..and made in Italy ?  

 

I would have preferred a wider tyre if only to visually to fill the mudguard, but I'll not loose sleep over it.  Indeed when I'm riding the bike I'll not even see it !   Unfortunately it arrived too late in the day - for me to go for a ride once fitted, that'll have to wait till tomorrow. 

OK., me banger n' mash is ready, and the onions are well caramelized so it's time for me to sit down and watch another episode of Morse.

Bidding you a good evening,  Pete.

[Asimo]

Sometimes they fight you all the way.

Is it worth having a look for metal particles in the engine oil?

There must be a way to test whether any oil-borne metal is aluminium or bearing-metal.  Caustic soda to dissolve aluminium perhaps?