Renault Kangoo - Being French FIXED

[Danblez]

My mums van is being a right arse at the moment and has now decided it doesn't like the instrument cluster any more. I have changed the fuse but no joy and a quick internet search seems to suggest it is rather common.

 

She has taken it to the local friendly garage who sent her to the local French fancier who has said it will be £400 to sort. This isn't going to happen.

 

There are loads on ebay, or you seem to be able to get it repaired for around a ton. Has anyone any experience of swapping out a cluster? I really hope it isn't a full dash dismantling job or I am likely to end up in the nut house. I imagine a warranted repair is probably a better bet than a replacement cluster which could die at any moment?

 

Any sage AS advice most welcome!

[babydriver]

Live with, it, if speedo's not working use a sat nav.

[panhard65]

If it is the cluster thats the easy bit. Kangoo's can have either a speed sensor in the gearbox or it picks up it's signal from the ABS. The drives in the gearbox do strip their teeth and can be a right bastard to get out. Have it checked properly before going any further as you could spend a lot of cash on a cluster and it not fix the fault. To check if it has the sensor on the gearbox look into the engine bay from by the n/s wing. If it has a sensor you should see the wiring for it going down to the gearbox just above where the o/s drive shaft goes in near the rear gearbox mounting.

[Danblez]

It's the whole cluster that's dead, everything was working fine before this.

[SiC]

If you don't care about incorrect milage, iirc the clusters can be swapped straight over with a second hand unit - as no immobiliser data is in them.

[Danblez]

If you don't care about incorrect milage, iirc the clusters can be swapped straight over with a second hand unit - as no immobiliser data is in them.

 

This is useful to know cheers, I was just concerned one of a similar vintage could well shat itself too at any moment

[ruffgeezer]

Google BBAreman or actronics if you want your existing one repaired.

[Danblez]

Cheers RG, think I may go for a punt on a second hand first as they are as little as £30

 

Anyone know if the clocks are the same across the entire diesel range? Lots of dci clocks but this van isn't one of them. I would normally go for the "if it looks the same it must be the same" right? I have never been caught out with this in the past, oh no!

[SiC]

With Renault clocks, I think even DCI clocks work in petrol - just you tend to go off the scale if you rev that hard!

 

IIRC, ScaryOldCortina Laguna had diesel clocks in it, even though it's a petrol.

 

Certainly the Clio clocks I have on my test bench are dumb. There is no way of programming them or using a diagnostic tool on them.

 

In a bit, I'll see if I can find a pinout diagram for the connection on your clocks.

[SiC]

Worth looking at the connector on the back of the clocks if you have it out, could/probably simply be a cracked solder joint on the main connector.

[SiC]

On replacement clocks, I'd try and get the same year and look. Not sure on the kangoo, but on the clio theyre based on, around 2001 era they changed to CAN multiplexing. However I believe that's when they changed the style of them too.

[Danblez]

Thanks a lot, I am going to whip them out first and have a looksee.

[SiC]

What year & engine is it?

[Supernaut]

Naaaaah, it's fucked.

 

Stick the engine in this.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-RENAULT-KANGOO-TRKKA-4X4-16V-BEIGE-REPAIR-/361516948803?hash=item542c16dd43:g:d5QAAOSwZ8ZW2f8n

[Danblez]

What year & engine is it?

 

2002 and 1.9 so presume they class that as the DTI do they?

[SiC]

Argh, sorry the data I've got is only for the newer stuff with multiplexed in. The newer style uses 2 connectors, the older style uses 4 connectors. I think the 1.9 only came as a older style.

 

Older style:

- Remove two bolts from the bottom of the steering column to remove the upper half of the plastic cowling

- Remove 4 bolts on top of the dashboard visor

- Remove 2 bolts from the bottom of the visor

- 4 bolts hold the speedo on the front.

 

If its the newer style:

- Remove the plastic cover on the top of the steering column (infront of the dash).

- Remove the bolt on the upper section of the dashboard - one is on each side of the dash, to the side of the speaker.

- Remove the upper section of the dash (diagram shows arrow moving forwards - but may just be saying move it)

- Disconnect the speaker connector off the upper section of the dash

- Speedo has 2 bolts at the bottom

- Pivot the speedo backwards

- Disconnect Speedo connectors.

[SiC]

Ah no, found the wiring on the older style: (let me know if its the newer with 2 connectors)

 

Looking at the back.

 

Top left: (black)

1: not used

2: brake pad wear light

3: handbrake light

5: immo light

6: not used

7: not used

8: speed signal

9: oil level

10: oil level earth

 

Top right: (brown)

1: fuel guage earth

2: fuel gauge

3: +12v batt

4: not used

5: not used

6: electronic fault light

7: obd light

8: Auto trans fault light

9: not used

10: +12v ign

 

Bottom left: (grey)

1: earth

2: not used

3: not used

4: low fuel light

5: coolant temp light

6: oil press light

7: alternator light

8: rear fog

9: front fog

10: right indicator

 

 

Bottom right: (clear)

1: left indicator

2: dipped light

3: main beam light

4: cat fault light

5: glow plug light

6: airbag light

7: open warning light

8: +12v lighting

9: coolant temp

10: not used

 

Hope this helps!

[Danblez]

Really helpful thanks a lot SiC, I will report back with findings on Saturday.

[SiC]

I'd also do the normal stuff on French electrics, like checking Earths and all the fuses.

 

When checking fuses, check with a multimeter - as a crack in the fuse wire may be really small and not visible. Also the contacts may need a quick clean.

 

Don't forget to check both the fusebox in the passenger compartment and the engine bay. Is there a fuse box on the battery terminal? No idea on Kangoos, but a common thing Renault does - these can get grubby terminals.

[SiC]

I'd be tempted to suggest that its that single earth line on the dash that may be dirty/corroded/generally dead/etc if the panel is utterly blank.

 

For example, turning on the lights should still make the dash light up, even if the two power lines (before and after ign) aren't getting juice.

[Danblez]

Just had a look at this without any joy. Bought a second hand spare but obviously something else is a miss. It turns out that everything but the digital panel, fuel and temp gauges and speedo are working

 

There are two connectors, the red one has a single 12 v and 3 earths which all checked out fine. The other connector amongst many other wires appears to have an earth and live, earth is fine but there is no 12v. Should the large connector have a 12v? I was going to run a seperate feed but feared killing it completely.

 

What a surprise the quality of the wiring and connectors was. Lots of the cables had split insulation and the connectors where made of the shittest plastic known to man.

 

 

[Danblez]

Can anyone help me find a pinout for this cluster or point me in the direction of a decent french bothering forum who may be able to help?

[SiC]

That's a newer CAN based dash.

 

You should be able to push in the trip reset counter, then turn the ignition on, to get into its test mode. This will do a needle test mode, which should show that the gauges themselves actually working.

 

Pin-out of the connectors:

 

Red connector

1: not used

2: fuel gauge earth

3: not used

4: not used

5: dash lighting dimmer input

6: dash computer stalk scroll button (if you have it, shows MPG/etc)

7: not used

8: not used

9: SERV light

10: CAN (Multiplex) connection

11: CAN (Multiplex) connection

12: ABS light

13: Vehicle speed sensor

14: not used

15: EBD light

 

Grey:

1: not used

2: right indicator

3: left indicator

4: +12v batt

5: immo light

6: seat belt light

7: not used

8: dipped light

9: main beam light

10: airbag light (older models used this, newer models are controlled through the CAN/Multiplex)

11: rear fog light

12: front fog light

13: not used

14: alternator light

15: not used

16: +12 ign

17: not used

18: oil pressure light

19: not used

20: not used

21: oil level sensor

22: fuel gauge sensor

23: not sued

24: earth

25: not used

26: oil sensor earth

27: side lights

28: handbrake indicator

29: not used

30: brake fault light

 

From playing around with the Clio one I have on the bench (pretty much the same), some LEDS are +12v to light and some are earthed. So if the +12v lights work then the earth on the dash must be ok and likewise if the earth lights work then the dash must have +12v going in.

 

Hope this helps.

[SiC]

I believe from the passenger fuse box, Fuse 6 goes to pin 4 on the instruments, Fuse 16 goes to pin 16 on the instruments.

[pilninggas]

Fit one of these:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vehicle-Head-Up-Display-HUD-Projector-Fuel-OBD-II-OBD2-Speedometer-Speed-Warning-/321919130450?hash=item4af3e01b52:g:oW4AAOSwlV9WRIRU

 

speed, rpms, coolant temp. no fuss, no muss, no balls around with french wiring.

[Danblez]

Cheers SiC, are you sure there isn't another type as that doesn't seem to tally with what I have got. The red connector just has a brown +12v ign and 3 (or 4) black earths. Everything on the dash works apart from the main three dials (fuel speed, temp +digi panel)

 

This is the dash, shared across the 1.2 petrols too.

 

I need some more multimeter action and some bleeding logic. I hate electrics, especially frenchie ones.

 

[SiC]

I believe the pinout of the multiplex dashes are identical on both the rev counter ones and non-rev counter.

 

I'd check those two power lines on the grey connector. pin 16 will only be live when the ignition is on.

[Danblez]

Will have another poke, thanks!

[SiC]

Fit one of these:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vehicle-Head-Up-Display-HUD-Projector-Fuel-OBD-II-OBD2-Speedometer-Speed-Warning-/321919130450?hash=item4af3e01b52:g:oW4AAOSwlV9WRIRU

 

speed, rpms, coolant temp. no fuss, no muss, no balls around with french wiring.

Doesn't help if the speed pickup is not done from the ABS module. If it's not, then the speed is only found directly in the dash and not available through the OBD port.

[SiC]

Is the red immo light flashing with the ignition off? That is pulled to ground to light it, with the power being fed from pin 4 (i.e. battery power).

 

IIRC, the dash won't power up unless at least pin 16 has power.