Vectra help

[wuvvum]

Well I got the old heap going again.  Went out to it this morning and it was doing the same as before - it'd crank over for ages, chug for a few seconds (accompanied by huge clouds of grey smoke from the exhaust, together with a smaller cloud of sympathy smoke from under the bonnet from my poor tortured jump leads), then die again.

 

Refilling the fuel filter with diesel (twice, same as on Friday) eventually got it to start and stay running, and it then did its "usual" trick of running in limp mode, cutting out after 15 minutes but starting straight back up again and eventually clearing itself.  I noticed that when it cut out there was an electronic-sounding beeping noise coming from the pump, which went away when I turned the ignition off.

 

One thing that does seem to be consistent is that if I can get it past the limp mode stage, it will then run fine for as long as I need it to - I took it for a run to charge the battery back up and it was going like the clappers, blatting past a tractor in a way almost reminiscent of the Rover of Doom.  That doesn't really help the diagnosis though - all the symptoms point to the pump struggling to pull fuel up from the tank, which would suggest an air leak in the fuel pipes, but I wouldn't expect an air leak to be an intermittent thing.  The fuel filter housing itself is airtight, as it always gives a hiss when I pull the bolt out of its seal.

 

I did check the vacuum pipes as well, as far as I could.  I found a hole in one of them, which goes into some kind of solenoid thing on the intake which I assume controls a flap of some kind in the intake pipe.  I fixed it by the simple expedient of snipping off the holed bit and then shoving the shortened pipe back on, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference to anything.

 

I think I might have to bite the bullet and buy one of those Op-com things - for the sake of 19 quid, even if it doesn't fix it I won't have lost much.  If scrap wasn't on its arse I would have weighed it in, but I don't want to get rid of it for nowt and I can't see steel prices coming up much any time soon.

[twosmoke300]

That flap is trouble . Is it an estate ?

[twosmoke300]

The estate has a sensor on the back of that flap and when the flap pipe or solenoid packs up it causes strange problem . It's only to help engine braking and shut down anyway . If you by pass or disconnect the solenoid that controls it ( to keep flap open all the time ) and try it it will eliminate it . If it's an estate or signum it will bring eml on due to that sensor . I had one the other day which I ended up reflashing with saloon / hatch software

[wuvvum]

Nope, it's a hatch, and the EML hasn't ever come on with the engine running, even when in limp mode.  I'm struggling to fathom why that flap would be set up differently in the estates - makes no sense to me whatsoever.  But then nothing on this car is making sense to me at the moment...

[twosmoke300]

It's to give more engine braking on the estate . Try bypassing / disconnecting the vac line to the flap to keep it open . It will kill the engine dead if it shuts

[twosmoke300]

The solenoid that controls it is on the bonnet landing panel iirc

[twosmoke300]

I wonder if it's not in limp but that flap has partially shut

[andy18s]

Is the tank venting ok?

If air can't get in to replace the fuel used then the vacumn could be enough to make the pump struggle....

[wuvvum]

It's to give more engine braking on the estate . Try bypassing / disconnecting the vac line to the flap to keep it open . It will kill the engine dead if it shuts

The thing is, the vac line to the flap had a hole in it until this morning so wouldn't have been working anyway.  I will take another look at it though, to make sure it's not stuck partly closed or something.  When the engine cuts out it stops dead with no warning, which is almost like it's been choked off.

 

 

Is the tank venting ok?

If air can't get in to replace the fuel used then the vacumn could be enough to make the pump struggle....

I think so - there's no rush of air when I take the fuel cap off.  Might try leaving it loose though to see if that helps.

 

I've now started it four further times since my last post, once with a gap of three hours between starts, and it's fired straight up every time.  The last two times it didn't even go into limp mode - although it probably would have done had I left it running for long enough.

[Split_Pin]

As Louise 2cv said, have you carried out the Pedal Test? If not, you need to do it as it will throw up stored codes even if the eml has never come on.

[wuvvum]

Just tried the pedal test - it didn't work.  Consensus on teh Internetz seems to be that it usually doesn't for pre-facelift Vectras.

[bub2006]

My ex wifes 03 plate vectra ls 1.8 and 53 1.8 active both worked on pedal tests? I'll go check my 52 1.8 in a minute.

[Split_Pin]

Hmm, works on my 03 Astra, sorted me out a few times in the past. Pre 2001 models require the paperclip test....

[bub2006]

Works on mine,checked last night

[wuvvum]

I'm wondering if it's because it's diesel (and pre common rail) so perhaps not OBD2 compatible?  At least my OBD2 reader can't talk to it.  I think diesels adopted the OBD2 protocol later than petrols.

[bub2006]

What year is it?

[wuvvum]

2002.

[bub2006]

Scrub that,just read first post! My generic 20 quid obd reader has worked on bro in laws 52 plate derv vectra and a 51 plate hdi Picasso? Can't say if the pedal tests works on diesels,never tried it. I'm lead to believe obd compatibility came to play around 2002 diesels and 2000 on petrol?

[bub2006]

But I think I've seen somewhere if there is a fault with the ecu it may not be able to be read.

[twosmoke300]

Pre 04 diesels don't need to be obd compliant but the 1.9 prob is as its a newer engine etc . Have you watched that flap yet to see if it's that shutting it down ?

[Lacquer Peel]

I'm wondering if it's because it's diesel (and pre common rail) so perhaps not OBD2 compatible? At least my OBD2 reader can't talk to it. I think diesels adopted the OBD2 protocol later than petrols.

My 1997 V70 TDI is OBD2. Do Vauxhalls use a proprietary interface?

[twosmoke300]

It only became compulsory after 04 so older designs ( dti) didn't use obd protocol

[bub2006]

Ahh ok. I'll remember that,thanks. I thought it was 2002

[wuvvum]

Aaaand it's broken again.  Went to go to Tesco in it just now, it fired straight up, but then after about 30 seconds it started spluttering then cut out.  Tried it several more times, it'd crank for ages, then fire, run for between 5 and 30 seconds, then die.  Even when it was running it was spluttery. 

 

I'm more convinced than ever that it's a problem with the fuel pump pulling fuel up from the tank.  When it cut out there were some noticeable gurgling noises from what sounded like the fuel filter area (along with an air leak type noise from the intake pipes at the front of the engine bay).

 

Also, does anyone know what the high-pitched beeping noise from the pump might be?  It's definitely electronic and not an air-leak whistle as it stops as soon as I turn the ignition off.  It doesn't do it consistently though, only once in a while.

 

If I bought one of those Vauxhall-specific diagnostic dooberies, would it be able to pick up on something like an air leak in the fuel lines?

[Lacquer Peel]

Is there a filter in the banjo bolt on the pump? Are all the pipes quite accessible?

[wuvvum]

1. Not that I could see.  2. Nope.  For some reason they do nearly a full lap of the engine to get from the filter to the pump.

[Lacquer Peel]

Is it a rubber pipe? You could put a primer pump (like the ones found on XUDs) in line, see if priming it helps at all. That could be a symptom of an air leak and help you narrow the problem down.

[wuvvum]

As in the rubber bulb type pump you mean?  That could be worth a go, if I can find somewhere to fit it into the pipe.  Unfortunately the pipes all have fancy connectors on the ends, so it wouldn't be a case of just pulling one off and shoving an extra bit of pipe in to bridge the gap.  Bloody modern cars and their needless complications...

[Lacquer Peel]

I saw that on my google search, I thought running a new fuel pipe from the tank to the filter housing might be an option but it's all fancy connections.

 

Yep something like this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diesel-hand-primer-pump-In-line-to-suit-8mm-fuel-pipe-/151427747385

 

If you have to cut a pipe to fit it, just leave it there, it won't do any harm. I suspect they are hard plastic pipes though.

[wuvvum]

They are mostly plastic, but there's about a 10" section where the pipe comes up into the engine bay from the tank which is rubber - looks to be 10mm.  For the price of a primer pump, I might as well splash out and see if it helps...