Finance repo's

[Richard]

Or Money Saving Expert.

[cort16]

I hate that site

[Taff]

Not doing gym or takeaways, but in theory, I could afford it, if I really wanted. I just don't want to enslave myself more than I already am, so it's a no.

 

Like I said in the payday thread, I have commitments and no desire to over-stretch myself. So stuff (tyres for example) get saved up for over a few months

 

It would also seem to be the case that banger prices are on the up because of a shortage of decent cars.

 

Lots of knackered old shit for sale but not many good cars with history.

 

I paid £3600 for my vectra in 2012 - in April this year I punted it on for £2450. It was low mileage and had good history.

 

Still had mouthbreathing twats on ebay offering £1500 - you can easily get a vectra for that money, how good it will be is anybody's fucking guess.

 

The beauty of modern communication is that the mongs will text "only worf £1500, m8" because that costs them nothing to do so, electronic window shopping if you will. The fact that yours had supporting history for it's good condition was obvious to the bloke that happily stumped up your asking price. Such is modern society, sadly.

 

When I worked for a company that sold/rented stuff out, their sales pitch to use was to break things down to the lowest common denominator, so instead of saying the gear was going to cost them £40 a month, you'd tell them it was only £1.35 per day (or whatever it is) and suggest that a packet of fags cost more than that. It worked most of the time, too. 

 

I did a stint flogging forklift trucks and we would do exactly that, drill down to the lowest financial level that customer would understand. "Brand new fork truck, full servicing, £99 a month, sir? Sign here." and gloss over the fact that it was rental not HP, service but NOT repairs (people still don't explore the difference between the two), massive balloon payment at the end of the five year term... "it's all in the Ts & Cs, sir"

 

People also don't think of worst case - needing a £180 tyre twice a year, how about if they have a bump and they've got £500 excess. It should be salesmen going through this, but like fuck will they - talk a customer out of a sale?

 

folk I work with seem to be confused by the concept of having a monthly budget which includes a contingency figure. Mine isn't a huge amount but it's a small buffer in case everything goes wobbly. I needed it last October when I suddenly got laid off, & it's taken me 6 months to build it back up again. Some weeks are quiet socially and there are things I would have liked (liked rather than needed) but I felt I needed the comfort blanket more.

 

Going back to the lass with the Adam and mega expensive tyres, being tight I was beside myself with joy to find that my car is a decent size but uses 175/70/14 tyres. I check things like that out, but many people won't - heard many a person complain about the price of their 19" or whatever behemoths but then do exactly the same next time.

 

Glad it's not just me. I was chuffed to bits to discover that my F has the same size tyres as a fiesta fusion. To the scrappy with me!

 

I've read that and I've decided to sell my car tomorrow, go down the Kia dealer and get a huge finance deal, finance myself up to the bollocks on this Kia as it will not break down for 3 years. You've convinced me new cars never go wrong, are so safe I could drive it, wilfully into a wall at 60mph. Then in 3 years do it all again before the car explodes, like they do at 3 years old.

 

I think his point was that, as a father, there is a degree of comfort to be had in knowing that your child is driving a vehicle that is less likely to break down and leave them stranded. That was my read of it, anyway.

[Mr A Lawrence]

I worked for a professional association that essentially supports photographers in the social/studio marketplace (i.e. selling to families and so forth) and naturally tries to protect the value of this service. Any Fule No the concept of the "Veblen Good" - that is, a product that has an objectively low value in utility or even material costs, but commands a high price simply because the purchaser can 'enjoy' the status of a high-priced item. The archetypal demo of this was an iPhone application that was priced at the maximum figure (IIRC $499), and simply put an app icon on your phone that said "I'm Rich".

It was pulled. But not before 7 or 8 (I forget exactly) people had bought it.

 

The more car-relevant end of that might be choosing between a Dacia Duster, a Qashqai or an Infiniti. There's little between the concepts - they're made by the same company and perform the same task - but people would pay more for the badge prestige of the Infiniti if they can afford to; the argument of stronger residuals only applies because the secondhand buyer has the same status motivation as the first.

 

ANYWAY. To get back to the point. At a conference discussing some marketing co-operations, someone announced a partnership with BrightHouse. I stood up at the back and pretty much slaughtered the idea, then took the person aside and said "What the FUCK are you doing? That firm is as revolting as payday loans. They price up £399 tellies at four-figure sums and then charge insane interest whilst presenting themselves as doing a favour for people who are too desperate or ill informed to make a rational decision. They will devalue your brand AND attract the wrong profile of customer".

I was called a snob for that attitude, as if the reason I objected was that the profile of BrightHouse customers was that they're "poor" and poor people don't want professional photography (Venture studios prove otherwise as they sign people up to financed, four figure sessions resulting in prints I can fire out of my printer for under £100 including canvas & frame). Still, to the best of my knowledge the partnership did not materialise, as many of the people were of the same opinion.

t

 

 

 

I wouldn't class my self as poor but I've got a TV and a settee from Brighthouse for the simple fact that it's easier and quicker than saving up

[JohnK]

These kind of threads always spark the same debate, don't they?

 

Ultimately, what people do with their money and what people decide that they want to drive, is up to them, isn't it?

 

It comes down to the fact that not everybody has an interest in cars. Cars are an appliance. Much the same as I wouldn't know a 'Hoover' from a 'Dyson', beko1987 knows the ins and outs of them all because that interests him. To me it is an appliance that I have to use to get a job done. Mine is a no make, £35 jobby from the supermarket, which some people might turn there nose up at. Much the same as my 20yr old Rover then, to the majority of joe public?

 

If people have zero interest in cars and just want something to get about in, then they don't want to/don't have the skills to fix it themselves on a weekend, ready for the Monday morning commute. Somebody earlier on hit the nail on the head - if I had no interest in cars, spunked £1500 on something and then 6 months down the line had to throw £800 at it in a garage (for what we all consider 'consumable items', it's going to stick in the back of some peoples throats as 'not being worth it, it's a money pit' etc, because people who don't know about cars don't understand that they are consumable items and determine that 'it must be fucked'. Many of us, when we first buy a car, chuck a few quid at it in the first few months of ownership to 'get it right' (servicing, timing belts etc) which is completely out of the comprehension of many people - if the bonnet is up, it must be knackered. Afterall, when you buy a car from a dealership it has already been serviced (allegedly) before sale, as they don't need to worry about that.

 

I had much the same with my neice recently, against my advice spunked £600 on a 53 reg Clio which was an absolute dog. Refused to take any of the car savvy family members with her so we just let her get on with it. A week later when it conked out and needed another £400 throwing at it and owed her 1k, it was a piece of shit. She couldn't comprehend that a) it wasn't worth £600 in the first place  b ) previous owner had got shot before it needed the work because 'it wasn't worth it' and blatantly saw her coming. In her mind it was then much easier to scrap it 'because it's fucked' (I kid you not - AFTER the work had been done, because it conked again) and spunk 3k on a 08 reg Corsa. Which promptly went into limp home mode a week after she bought that as well.

I will add that before her dad worked in IT, he was a time served mechanic, but my neice wanted a 'proper' mechanic to have a look at it, so paid for a garage to do the work. This was for both the Clio & Corsa. Family free labour is not exploited enough in our family it seems.

 

We have a 4yr old BMW sat outside which is losing money on a daily basis. Not the wisest decision maybe, but I have confidence that Mrs JohnK can get about in a fairly safe manner, in a nice car and the kids are safe. She hates the fact our house looks like the local breakers yard and has no interest in running cars on a shoestring budget (tried and tested - ultimately every car she had failed big style - Peugeot 106 blew up at the side of the road, Renault Laguna went into electrical meltdown on a roundabout, the Peugeot 306 got rammed up the arse whilst stationary and wrote off (okay not a mechanical meltdown as such) and the Nissan Almera stopped dead on a 70mph dual carriageway. I can honestly say that in all the old cars I've owned, none of them things have happened to me.

 

Yes I'm fully aware that the BMW could conk out tomorrow, but that is a chance I will take. I can't deny that it is a nice car, we aren't financially stressed by having it parked out the back and I'm sensible and put money in my car fund savings account every month and that counts towards maintenance, not just buying shite.

 

On the other hand, I don't particuarly care what I drive. My daily is the 05 Civic Diesel, at £1300 it was cheap to buy, it costs pennies to run as it is so frugal and does everything I want/need a car to do, although it is boring. Coincidentally, it's off the road at the moment as it needs a few jobs doing, so the Rover 214 is in daily service whilst I do it. And there is the key - by being interested in cars and having a few kicking about, I can sort the Civic in my own time. If it was just an appliance, then it would have been in the local garage last Monday to get it fixed as I can't get to work without a car and need it and it might have cost me £500. That would be seen as 'the car is fucked' by lots of the motoring public. Actually, it's minor jobs that need doing, but the knackered exhaust was really getting on my tits when I was driving it, hence why I'm not using it until I've got chance to sort it. The same with the BMW - if it needed work, I could take it off the road, hand the Civic keys to the missus and I would use one of my other cars.

I bought the Civic from my sister after 9 years of ownership - she bought it at 1 yr old for 10k, used it and has now upgraded to an Audi A1. So, her fully paid off, reliable car has been replaced with a car she pays £340/month for. But she's good for it, her and her husband are wadded and it was her treat for working so hard. The Civic was financed by her when she bought it, her husband was made redundant 2 years into the agreement but they battled on, she worked extra hours, he worked a minimum wage job and they kept their £300k house and all of the goodies they had worked for. Finance worked for this, as by buying the car on finance they still has an extra 10k in savings to help out if needed and didn't have to sell the car for 6k for example to release equity.

 

When I was growing up in the early '90's, on a typical council estate, my dad had a 12 year old and a 10 year old Cortina. The blue 2.0 Ghia on a W was fautlessly reliable, the yellow 1.6 L on a Y was hopeless. My dad had two cars because he was on a top job in Grangemouth in Scotland and needed transport to get there, but being skint he was a home mechanic, so if one screwed up it sat there until he fixed it.

 

One of my fondest childhood memories was helping my dad change the wheel bearing on his Y reg 1.6L Sierra that replaced the E23 728i (which had replaced both Cortina's). I was about 5 and knew sod all, but it was the thing to do - that particular Sunday, there was about 5 dad's on the street out fixing their clapped out shit.

 

That doesn't happen anymore, because it doesn't need to happen. Attractive finance deals with options such as the Kia 7 year warranty etc are very attractive to people because in their minds, if it breaks, they take it back. They have no interest in the car at all. And because 90% of people do it, we then get into the culture of needing to have the latest registration, needing to have a car with warranty and not needing an MOT, needing to have the premium brand BMW or Audi when actually a Mondeo would do (I know when we replace the 520d I will be looking at the new Mondeo range as VFM they look great and more exclusive than our 5-series).

 

Let people get on with it is what I say. It keeps the car manufacturers and dealerships in business so therefore people are working as there is demand for new cars, there is scope for second hand car dealerships to stay in business because of the cars coming through at 3 years old which can then be re-financed and sold and it allows worthless shit such as Rover R8's to knock about unwanted so that I can buy them all. Yes, it might mean that some toffee nosed twat in a swanky office somewhere is rolling around in a Bentley on the money earnt from interest payments, but it keeps so much more of the economy going (the call centre handler at Black Horse finance on minimum wage etc).

 

I have no problems with finance per se, as finance can be a good thing and is sensible if used properly. The issue is, many do not use finance properly and completely abuse it and that's when things such as people not being able to afford 18" tyres because they haven't budgetted appropriately happen. One of the reasons why my current 520d is an SE model and the previous 525d was an SE too. I don't need 19" alloy wheels and a bodykit, my cock is big enough thank you and I know I can get decent tyres at actually really reasonable prices in 17" flavour.

[Sloth in a bowl]

So in the grand scheme of things. Autoshite is not about finance though some individual Autoshiters may own a newer financed car.

 

In other news, why are we imitating the Angry forum with threads about modern shit?

[Mr A Lawrence]

Sorry, I don't get the bit where you say you wouldn't be able to afford it. But have the money to pay the finance. In my head if you took that money for the finance and saved it instead you would be able to buy the car,no?

Because I needed a car straight away plus we're shit at saving so having to pay a monthly finance payment is better than getting a pot of money then wasting it on something we didn't need!!

 

That's happened before

[Lacquer Peel]

t

 

 

 

I wouldn't class my self as poor but I've got a TV and a settee from Brighthouse for the simple fact that it's easier and quicker than saving up

We bought a really nice corner sofa on gumtree for £150 a while ago, let's see what Brighthouse can offer.

 

 

Nearly 3 grand for a sofa by the time you've finished paying for it, you might not be poor now...

[scaryoldcortina]

t

 

 

 

I wouldn't class my self as poor but I've got a TV and a settee from Brighthouse for the simple fact that it's easier and quicker than saving up

 

I've got a TV someone else was throwing away, and my gran's old three piece. I also own the house they are in and have no loans to pay to anyone for anything. The only time in recent history that I've taken a loan was to buy a guitar - I had the money but there was a 12 month deferred 0% deal and no discounts for cash so I took it, and paid the balance in full just before it "matured" into a 45%APR monthly payment.

 

Saving is as easy as making loan payments. You take money out of your pay, and put it in an account somewhere.

[Mr A Lawrence]

We bought a really nice corner sofa on gumtree for £150 a while ago, let's see what Brighthouse can offer.

Nearly 3 grand for a sofa by the time you've finished paying for it, you might not be poor now...

But we can afford it

 

We can also afford to run and maintain an 06 jaguar S type and run an abarth 595 and keep an Mgf in the garage ready to go for the crisp winter days or the hot summer days!!

 

We like new stuff and know how to reign it in if it gets out of control.

[Lacquer Peel]

What happens if your circumstances change?

Not telling you how to spend your money, glad new things make you happy.

[scaryoldcortina]

Why the hell would you want to though? If you've got the disposable income to do all that why not buy a nice sofa for £500 odd cash and not pay the thieves the other £2k?

 

I'm not on a mega income btw, I'm self employed and sometimes it's very tight. It would be much worse to cope with if I added loans to the mix, at least with savings there are no penalty charges for not putting anything away this month.

[scaryoldcortina]

I've been back through the thread, and it's obvious now that I'm not going to change your mind. Remember though, you are exactly the sort of customer that they love. You pay through the nose but keep coming back for more!

 

I have poor credit due to having a house repossessed and thus haven't been able to get credit but last December I managed to get car finance of 4.5k to but my jag.

The catch is the interest is higher than regular car finance but, this is the best bit, every month when my payment has gone out they send me, by email and text a code number which I enter, via a remote control, into a tracker unit which lets me drive the car, non payment means no car!!

Thought it was rubbish when I first heard about it but now I think it's the way forward.

 

So less risk of non payment but higher interest? Win/win for the finance company there then.

 

The missus has the best deal coming up.

A 2015 65 reg abarth 595 custom on order, which comes with tax, insurance and servicing included and the option of, after 3 years getting exactly the same again or something totally different.


The only drawback is she had to get a life threatening, life changing aggressive disease to qualify.

 

You have my sympathies here, but my wife's DLA is not used to get a brand new toy... it's there so if she needs something we have the money to pay for it.

 

t



I wouldn't class my self as poor but I've got a TV and a settee from Brighthouse for the simple fact that it's easier and quicker than saving up

 

 

Because I needed a car straight away plus we're shit at saving so having to pay a monthly finance payment is better than getting a pot of money then wasting it on something we didn't need!!

That's happened before

 

 

But we can afford it

We can also afford to run and maintain an 06 jaguar S type and run an abarth 595 and keep an Mgf in the garage ready to go for the crisp winter days or the hot summer days!!

We like new stuff and know how to reign it in if it gets out of control.

 

eh, I'm done. I've got work to do.

[quicksilver]

Credit is just too easy to obtain these days and seems to be accepted as a normal way of obtaining things - just seen an example as Firefox is suggesting a personal finance site to me even though I have never visited any such sites and have no need for a loan. I must be very unusual among my age group as I was brought up to believe finance was the absolute last resort for dire emergencies only and people should live within their means with what they can afford. The meanings of 'need' and 'want' have become corrupted too - nobody really needs a brand new car every couple of years although they might want one, but the temptation of easy monthly payments is just too much and they don't see the long-term cost.

[Bear]

I wouldn't class my self as poor but I've got a TV and a settee from Brighthouse for the simple fact that it's easier and quicker than saving up

 

Well, re-read a bit - I wasn't objecting because I thought BrightHouse customers were poor, not at all. I was objecting because BrightHouse charges top-dollar for average kit then rapes the customer on APR - as the post above shows. 69.9% APR on an L-shaped sofa already priced at double the rate DFS charge for a similar item in their perpetual sales, and APR that would make a credit-card company feel it was "a tad unreasonable" when DFS do four years 0% (or deferred, so if you don't pay it in four years you will be landed with the interest over that period, I suspect).

 

And for that you're roped in to over £60/month.

 

The point about the tellies:

 

 

WTF are "Baird" - so this is essentially a captive brand like Logik. Baird are licensed to a Chinese manufacturer now the rental market has all but died off (thankfully).

 

55", 1080HD with no Smart TV functions, nearly £1200. Now, it's a little unfair here because 55" from most retailers are dominated by 4K Smart TVs - usually starting around £700, though you're looking at Samsung and Sony there rather than an off-brand product.

 

 

Their 48" and 49" are £965, broken down as £709 for the TV, £65 for delivery, £197 for non-optional 5* service and interestingly although the 5* service is presented as accidental damage/loss cover, they also stipulate that you need insurance which they'll provide for an extra 90p per week. In total you'll pay:

 

 

In Currys...

 

 

£599 for 49", Smart, 4K.

 

But for the budget conscious shopper, look - another off-brand product.

 

 

£299. 50" with 3 HDMI, LED panel and 1080HD.

 

Now, here's the thing. Why do they offer a zombie brand like Baird? Because otherwise, this:

 

 

Would be useful for comparing Logik, Bush, Polaroid and all the other zombie brands co-opted by retailers for avoiding price comparisons.

 

But you want it now and haven't saved? Well, Currys have the answer there, too.

 

 

6 months deferred credit. In 6 months of paying for the BrightHouse TV you'll have paid out £360 - enough to have bought the entry level 50" one outright, and half of the really nice £700 ones. Even then the monthly payment and total if you simply let it roll and pay monthly is pretty much half the amount BrightHouse take, for a much higher quality product from a known brand. And Currys aren't THAT vicious on their finance requirements, they accepted me when I had to upgrade my iPad to be able to continue reviewing apps and getting paid. 9 months deferred, very useful, paid sans-interest at the end of the period.

 

BrightHouse are bastards. They mislead customers. Also, their late charges are unfair under current regulations, often exceeding the payment and being added to the interest-bearing account.

[Lacquer Peel]

But I want it NOW!

[quicksilver]

But I want it NOW!

Nail-head interface right there. Instant gratification and to hell with the consequences!

[Taff]

So in the grand scheme of things. Autoshite is not about finance though some individual Autoshiters may own a newer financed car.

 

In other news, why are we imitating the Angry forum with threads about modern shit?

 

It gives bored people who know Andy's circumstances better than Andy a chance to lay into him?

[The Moog]

I wrote a massive piece and deleted it as I thought better. 

 

World has always run on credit, from man from the provi through to Radio Rentals etc. A lot of people see it as reverse saving, get what I want then pay it off. It isnt necessarily a bad thing to do, it is just different.  

 

People choose different lifestyles and different ways to pay or save. It all comes down to affordability rather than cost for most.

 

One of my clients is a not for profit lender who work with those who cant get credit. Next step for them is loan sharks, who still use physical violence. It is about giving choice in the marketplace rather than people only having the option of Big Baz, but is also about trying to give people the same opportunities as a lot of the world does revolve around credit (monthly car insurance etc) 

 

Its very easy to criticise people who make different choices or do things we don't agree with, but I really thought that the AS was live and let live. We choose shit cars (although for some it isnt a choice) and have to deal with people who tell us that is a bad thing. 

[Bear]

I hope that what I wrote isn't interpreted as laying in to Andy. It is entirely about laying in to BrightHouse. I've made similar choices in the past - in my twenties I had little experience and wanted new flash stuff. My main issue with the firm is not so much the APR or offering credit, but that they dramatically overstate their prices in the first place.

[J-Rod]

So in the grand scheme of things. Autoshite is not about finance though some individual Autoshiters may own a newer financed car.

 

In other news, why are we imitating the Angry forum with threads about modern shit?

I agree - this thread is edging dangerously close to one I read on there discussing HP/Finance etc., and the pros/cons of it. Wasn't it Skizzer who said something about wanting to get back to discussing rusty old cars...?!  

[mercrocker]

We all have different ways to rock.   I probably owe thousands when I sit and work it out but that's because I love spending money on weekends away, rock and roll, restoring crusty old shite that really deserved to die and making sure when Mrs Rocker and I are shitting our cacks in some musty rest home there is a great big scrapbook of life (literally) to look back on.    Even if dementia might mean we don't understand a fucking word of it. 

 

Never mind, we are getting on, relatively speaking and have a reasonable 15-20 years left of enjoying life.   We own 80percent of the house, are clearing the rest at a rapid rate and most of all enjoy our life.

 

Now, if that translated to new sofas, tellies and frankly unpalatable cars but those were the things that made us happy I would still happily be in debt to pay for them. 

 

Rusty old cars are my life, they have been ever since they were all I could afford.   I would love to go and bang myself up for a brand new P6 Rover but unfortunately I am in the position to do so far too fucking late.   Wouldn't have it any other way and neither I suspect would those that do it differently.  I can still take the piss out of them though....

[JohnK]

Agreed this just needs to be left.

 

It's not the first time such a discussion has taken place and probably won't be the last.

 

Some shiters agree with finance.

Some don't.

Some shiters have nice moderns for the daily commute for their own reasons.

Some drive shite daily, for their own reasons.

 

Be boring if we were all the same eh?!

[derskine]

Finance has no place in my life, if I can't afford it, I don't buy it.

[Mr A Lawrence]

Now I feel I've been 10 rounds with Tyson I think it's best to agree to disagree and move on.

 

Yeah??

[garbaldy]

No dont go we need to kick you while your down.

[Mr A Lawrence]

But I've just bought a nice baseball bat on credit, only 25.9% apr representative over 6months, deferred for 3 month with no deposit so BRING IT ON!!

[Taff]

Now I feel I've been 10 rounds with Tyson I think it's best to agree to disagree and move on.

 

Yeah??

 

hush, you. we haven't finished with the advice yet.

 

and get a haircut

[jonny69]

1. i fuckin loath the shysters who lend money to people who shouldn't have loans, they live in places like Sunningdale and the walled and guarded estates of Wokingham and have orange tanned trophy wives and probably equally phoney obnoxious orange children, who get ferried to school, ok yah, in poncy blinged shit, all at the expense of poor bastards lured into easy payments for shit cars, which aint so effin easy when they haven't got two ha'pennies to scratch their arse with, then they default and get stung for penalties, which our Sunningdale cock o the south trousers readily and spends on champers at Ascot.

 

I take issue with the 'ok yah' comment. Everything you have put there is 100% accurate but I'm telling you now that there isn't a single person in that area who speaks like that. They think they're 'ok yah' but they speak like they came from Tilbury docks. I'm saying that as a South Londoner who now lives over that way and the people disgust me.

 

I recommend going to Ascot at least once and you'll see. You can't polish turds, but you can roll them in a lot of glitter!

[Eddie Honda]

The people that go "We can't afford a new car" then go to Yes Car Credit or whatever they're calling themselves after the latest insolvency/shark the debt/phoenix to pre-packed firm attempt, 

 

"I'm a drugged up psycho madman. I've just murdered my wife. Can I get a new car?"