keep looking at range roverers - am i mad?

[groovylee]

so, i fancy a range roverer, or a disco, but for some reason the rangie seems to keep popping to the front.  anyways, i have heard that the TD5 discos are a bloody nightmare, so im sort of avoiding them, and the diseasels seem a little expensive for what they are.

 

that leads me on to this:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-4-0-Litre-Petrol-Gas-converted-/311374198359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item487f593657

 

yeah, i know it's going to be thirsty, but is it really going to be a bad idea? especially considering the gas conversion?  i really dont know that much about these beasts, and depending on where you look, i should either buy one right this second, or i should go buy a pajero instead lol

 

so, good idea, or am i going to massively regret buying such a monstrous symbol of western excess?

 

oh, and if there are any serious suggestions to a different idea, that would like towing a circa 1500kg caravan, please shout out!

 

thanks,

 

Lee

 

[Sealtainn]

Can't comment on Rangies as I've never had one but I did buy a £500 Discovery 1 with the 300Tdi. Ran it for 8 months at which point it failed it's MoT in spectacular fashion due to a long standing leak from the rear skylight windows so the entire boot floor was rotten. The Tdi lived on in a Series Land Rover.

 

(following excerpt taken from Land Rover forum) re: problems with TD5s

 

Well rust is not the problem that it is on D1 cars. The DII chassis needs a careful look but other than that you should be ok - rustwise.

Early cars did have some issues, but most of them will have been resolved and if not are easy and cheap to sort out. For example: Head locating plugs were plastic on early cars and on occasion led to head slip and blown gaskets. However this can and does still happen on later cars with the steel dowels so it's maybe more down to maintenance.

All version can suffer from a loose/dropped oilpump bolt. If in any doubt just replace it - costs a couple of quid for the loctited bolt and the problem has disappeared.

Injector harness, again all models can suffer this oil leaking to the ECU red plug but again is an easy and cheap fix. Either replace the O-rings (£2) or the injector harness (£30)

Cooling issues: the cooling system uses OAT pink coolant and should not be mixed with anything else. It is supposed to be 5yr life so it gets ignored. There are also recorded cases around the world of OAT coolant eating aluminium parts. One example is the ally casting on the side of the head, causing leaks. If in doubt at all, empty the old coolant, give the engine and rad a good flush then refill with OAT. At the same time it would be prudent to change the rubber coolant hoses and thermostat.

ACE - the Advanced Cornering Enhancement system is great, right up until it starts to leak from the pipes between the pump, valve block and front and rear actuators. It can be a DIY repair but the pipes and ancillaries are expensive. Some owners have modified the valve block to take std hydraulic fittings and pipe, other remove the ACE system altogether. I myself run a non-ACE and it drives well - 95% of an ACE car.

SLS - again a great system when it works properly give a smoother ride quality and automatic height control which has advantages for towing and off-roading. Very easy to keep in good order so long as you apply active maintenance and replace the air springs and ride height sensors every 3-4yrswithout fail.
 

[explosive-cabbage]

RUN AWAY!

 

P38s are Shite, in a bad way.

 

Suspension issues, electrical issues, too complicated but all in all a very good machine. expect to spend as much time under it as in it and as much money on parts as on fuel.

 

Good luck with the purchse etc etc.

[groovylee]

thanks mate, i think i need to do more reading.  LOTS more reading!

 

so that oine in the link is a P38 yeah?

[crapcarcollector]

 

This is my best mates P38. It's wanted for nothing, money no object servicing, repairs and upgrades.

 

It's not run in the last 6 months. The BCM has taken a dump and no one can fix it, everyone just keeps telling him it scrap.

 

Shame, because it was a truly nice place to brake down.

[Sealtainn]

That shape is indeed the P38.

Just spoken to a neighbour had a 2.5 diesel engine one (BMW engine).

The air suspension is frequently problematic and is often replaced with coil springs and there are lots of electrical gremlins.

When they work they are lovely places to be but as he put it "expect to be on the Christmas card list of your local parts supplier" lol

[garethj]

Yes, that's a P38, or project Pegasus as it was known when it was developed.  My first job out of university was to supply electronic bits for it, I worked for AB Automotive and we did the BCM (body control module), column switchgear, ride height switch and centre console switches.  They were alright but the whole philosophy of low current switchgear was dreamt up by some bright spark who said that computer switches never fail and they all use low current.

 

The thing that he didn't realise (and that the XJ40 which used something similar just a few years earlier) hadn't shown yet was that there's a big difference between switching something in an office and being heated, frozen and vibrated on a car.  The lack of current meant that there wasn't enough power to burn through oxidising of contacts and that led to all kinds of issues that were very difficult to track down.

 

Herendeth the history lesson

 

They're a great car when they're working and probably the cheapest way into Land Rover ownership, but I wouldn't fancy one if I actually needed to get somewhere.  I'd look for a Discovery in good condition and pay more up front.

[groovylee]

thanks all, food for thought there.

 

Lee

[andy18s]

If you want something reliable, buy japanese but Not nissan. (Renault engine/chassis snappage)

If you want something with some character, get a Landrover of some description. You'll hate it and live it at the same time but they just have that "thing" about them....

[cros]

Can't add nothing to this advice. P38s often look tempting presumably because they've spent lots of their lives waiting around to be fixed.

[EssDeeWon]

These are getting quite old now so unless it was really cheap and had evidence of a good service history I wouldn't bother, personally.

[andy18s]

I've just bought a P38 with a few issues but they are a cracking car to drive.

It's a 2.5 Dt and it's slow.........they were detuned to 175 bhp from the factory by BMW but a simple rechip gets them back to to 200ish easy enough.

 

Just sold a Disco 1 3.9ltr v8 auto with lpg to Skizzer on here and again a cracking drive

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

Time has been very kind to the styling of the P38. In good condition and in the right spec they can be very handsome things indeed.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Just buy a £1000 1990's Jeep Cherokee 4.0, or if you want to be really stylish one of the seventies/eighties versions that are 1000 times better than any shit that was squeezed from between the arse cheeks of Solihull.

 

I had a P38 looming over me but it seems to have passed now, thank fuck.

[michael1703]

I love my p38 over any disco

 

The p38 is so manoeuvrable,you can thread it into tight parking spaces and 3 point turn it and reverse park easily, the disco steering is bloody horrible, you have to do 5 point turns as you run out of lock.

 

The p38 is a comfy place to be with lovely seats,steering wheel and switchgear whereas the disco is still maestro levels of notchy switches.

 

You get a lot more space in the p38 whereas the disco is a bit more shoulder to shoulder,less legroom in the disco compared to the p38 and much less boot space, the single door is a pain but you have less of a reach whereas the p38 has the drop tailgate which means you have to climb up on your knee to reach in to get something.

 

I managed to get a ride on mower in to the back of my p38,I got a hard top from a sunbeam alpine in which wouldn't fit in any estate car or 4x4 tried.

 

They don't rust at all, axles and brakes don't go wrong, front ball joints are a git to fit, air suspension is a pain,I had one on coil springs which drove fine.

 

They do go wrong but they're worth it, so I put up with it as I can't get on with discos

[Station]

Pajero it is then

[groovylee]

Just buy a £1000 1990's Jeep Cherokee 4.0.

 

This is something that is crossing my mind the more i read

[xtriple]

Mate of mine is seriously into all things LR especially Rangies. It helps that he's a mechanic and is not afraid of anything. His still needed weekly arsing around with - windows, seats, air suspension all used to fail with monotonous regularity. He had it for about 6 years and loved it. When it was all in working order, even I liked it and I hate big 4x4 things.

 

My son works for them and everyone in JLR hates P38s!

 

322s are much better but still complicated and like to frequent dealers at regular intervals.

[Tamworthbay]

My mate has run a series of discos and range rovers. Every single one has had massive issues that have cost an arm and a leg to fix. The disco was so rotten it seemed only the paint was structural. The last Range Rover (an R reg) cost him over £3k in repairs in one year and still failed it's MOT on a three sheeter.

 

They are cheap for a reason.

[dave21478]

I keep sniffing at P38`s.....they are a magnificent place to be when working well.

Given the vast amounts of time and money I have sunk into my Freelander, I think a P38 shouldn't be too much more of a burden, but I'm not sure if I am brave enough to take the final plunge and actually buy one.

 

The other reasons holding me back are I would be annoyed at a P38 getting shitted up with my work stuff. Currently I think nothing of slinging manky tools in the back of the freeby and pushing through overhanging branches and waist-high brambles in it, but it would be a shame to do that to a P38, and secondly, the only ones I see here are usually diesel, manual and often converted to coils which kind of negates a lot of the P38 appeal - ie an effortlessly wafty thing with a nice v8 soundtrack.

[explosive-cabbage]

Yes, that's a P38, or project Pegasus as it was known when it was developed.  My first job out of university was to supply electronic bits for it

 

OMG

 

WE'VE FOUND HIM!

 

ITS HIS FAULT!

[garethj]

OMG

 

WE'VE FOUND HIM!

 

ITS HIS FAULT!

 

Not entirely...

 

the whole philosophy of low current switchgear was dreamt up by some bright spark who said that computer switches never fail and they all use low current.

 

The thing that he didn't realise (and that the XJ40 which used something similar just a few years earlier) hadn't shown yet was that there's a big difference between switching something in an office and being heated, frozen and vibrated on a car.  The lack of current meant that there wasn't enough power to burn through oxidising of contacts and that led to all kinds of issues that were very difficult to track down.

 

And that bloke was at Land Rover.  The people who designed and built the system were very sharp indeed, but the difference between them and the poor mechanics that had to try and fix the stuff was substantial.  Diagnosing faults wasn't hard when you're an experienced engineer with several years design time behind you, but of course the cars hadn't had a few thousand miles of hot, cold and vibration thrown at them.

 

So often the case with modern cars - a lovely drive when they're working, but if you're trying to diagnose a difficult fault you could easily spend hundreds of pounds at each garage visit and be nowhere nearer fixing it.

[Tamworthbay]

Not entirely...

 

 

 

And that bloke was at Land Rover.  The people who designed and built the system were very sharp indeed, but the difference between them and the poor mechanics that had to try and fix the stuff was substantial.  Diagnosing faults wasn't hard when you're an experienced engineer with several years design time behind you, but of course the cars hadn't had a few thousand miles of hot, cold and vibration thrown at them.

 

So often the case with modern cars - a lovely drive when they're working, but if you're trying to diagnose a difficult fault you could easily spend hundreds of pounds at each garage visit and be nowhere nearer fixing it.

add to that an ever changing development and non interchangeability of seeming similar parts and it adds up to a nightmare. Nothing worse than hunting intermittent electrical gremlins.

[Station]

It's not fair to blame our own GarethJ for sending out the wrong parts/dropping them on the floor/in water.

 

I had a Hilux which I'm guessing is similar just without the worry of complete failure of everything. They are cool though, a V8 'Westminster' pulled off next to me today in Chester and sounded amazing. You could get a Hilux with a Lexus LS400 V8 ('straight swap') or a Pajero, but if you want a RR just get one.

[explosive-cabbage]

It's not fair to blame our own GarethJ for sending out the wrong parts/dropping them on the floor/in water.

 

 

I know, I'm only kidding

 

Sorry if you took it the wrong way

[Tetleysmooth]

 

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/179840/1998-cherokee-limited-ilkeston-derbys

[bub2006]

That's only up the road from me. Not a bad price either but will need fettling

[Taff]

 Nothing worse than hunting intermittent electrical gremlins.

 

Morris dancing is FAR worse than hunting intermittent electrical gremlins

[Tamworthbay]

Morris dancing is FAR worse than hunting intermittent electrical gremlins

depends if the Morris is yours or not, could make a mess of the roof.

[garethj]

I know, I'm only kidding

 

Sorry if you took it the wrong way

No offence taken, don't worry.  While it's quite popular to moan about Range Rover electrics the plus points are often forgotten - multiplex wiring reduced the number of wires and connectors to buy, fit, maintain and drive around.  It also allowed software to do fiendish things to help the driver out, the way the P38 reduces its ride height at speed makes it more comfortable and otherwise it would need about a dozen relays and solenoids to do the same job.

 

As cars get older it's easy to pour scorn on modern (but a bit old) ones, but poor old Dan's Mercury is running badly and that's got nothing more sophisticated than a carb and distributor and tracking down the fault is still a pain.