Down to my last used Jonny. Only the Anglia 105E left.

[vulgalour]

Your problem all along is that your car is French.  It is both the beauty and the horror of these things.  Good luck with it staying fixed!

[jonny69]

Another 114 miles clocked up today without missing a beat. Fuel consumption is up at about 40mpg which seems a little more realistic.

[forddeliveryboy]

Still struggling* to believe you've gone so far in one go, in an old French&Citroën car. 

 

Like your logic - if ftp, replace everything. London wages makes big success. Pleased it's good so far.... if it survives repeated M25 cycles, it might yet work.

[jonny69]

I rarely resort to the 'replace everything' tactic. There's always one thing that stands out as the culprit - except this time.

 

Put the new boot floor to the test yesterday with about 75-100kg of compost in the boot and on the back seats plus passenger up front. Seemed to hold up ok!

 

 

"The test", I guess, was whether it would start this morning now it's turned a bit colder and damp. Fired first crank without a grumble. So I'm officially calling that cured.

[Bfg]

/\ /\  Excellent 

[barrett]

Hold on, you've missed out a step between curing the starting and going to the garden centre, haven't you??

[seth]

Don't mention the suspension and you might just get away with it.

[jonny69]

*Whistles and doesn't know what you're talking about*

[dollywobbler]

It's a rarely seen modification tip. "To lower your car, fill the boot with compost."

[jonny69]

Rightyo, looks like this is going to Le Mans and back so I'd better do a few things in advance. I've got a couple of desperately last-minute questions for you knowledgeable Shitroenists following the thread

 

-I'm going to do the tappets and an oil change before I go. My engine has an oil filter because it's a later centre section with the Ami heads. Are all the oil filters the same and do the engines all take the same grade of oil? What oil should I use, seems to be a mix of either 20W50 or 15W40?

 

-I've noticed when I was sat in carpark-esque traffic on the M25 for over an hour, that the engine showed some signs that it was ****ing hot! Power was down when pulling out the traffic so it was obviously way hot and I took it easy to get some air through it to cool it down. The metal bits of the plugs look decidedly light blue and matte so they must have been scorching. Now, obviously, Citroen haven't built in a water-based overheat function into this engine, so... what is the correct procedure if it's looking like it's going to be sitting in near stationary stop-start traffic for some time? Will it kill itself or will it basically regulate its heat? There can be some pretty epic queues getting into Le Mans sometimes and it's hotter there than it is here.

 

-Similar to above, running flat out on the motorway, I can feel the engine build a fair bit of heat as you run into an uphill section and speed starts to drop when I'm on on full throttle. It starts kicking a lot more heat down the heater vents. Thinking about the fast undulating route to Le Mans where it will be doing that, is this engine ok for me to leave my foot in or should I back off on the uphill sections. It wasn't pinking from what I could tell.

 

Aside from that, I'll give it a quick once over and I'm confident it's good to go!

[dollywobbler]

Oil - filters are all the same (use only Purflux) and 15w40 or 20w50 are fine - though don't use the latter in the winter. 

 

Cooling - it really shouldn't be getting horribly hot, though you'll definitely get nasty burns if you open the bonnet and lean on the manifolds. An awful lot of people have done this. Once. I'm assuming it has the correct fan.

 

Queuing - they'll do it for hours, though the oil temp will steadily rise after a while (apparently). The weak link is the coil. Make sure you have a spare, or buy one of the resin solid-state lookalikes. ECAS has them for a good price. 

 

EDIT - obviously if you're queuing downhill, you might as well turn off the engine as you don't need it to power anything. I've even pushed mine along in really bad traffic, purely to save fuel!

[forddeliveryboy]

They're over-cooled by design, so if everything is as it ought to be there should never be any worry of overheating, even in 45C. Petrol vaporisation would be my only engine concern at those temps. I've looked after friends' 2cvs who've towed heavy trailer tents and whole families over the Pyreness in 35C without any problem, though the o/s exhaust valve had tightened its clearance slightly when checked on return.

 

If it is overheating (if hot air from the heater is hot enough to feel like it's burning your skin) I'd be checking the oil cooler is clear, try and see as best you can down over the cylinder head and barrel fins to make sure there's not an oil/dust gunge seriously blocking airflow, double check the timing (dynamically, if you can). I'm guessing you've remembered to remove the winter grille muff thing and that the new fan's still in one piece. Set the mixture slightly richer than normal, if it was set up for MoT purposes in cold weather, it'll def be running lean in these temps. 

 

 

Yes, take a spare coil. Take 2 spare plugs and leads. I'd even take the old, presumed intermittently dodgy 123 ignition, or even better the old points box and cam. Set the valve clearances to 0.20mm, exhaust and inlet except for the o/s exhaust which I'd have at 0.25. I'd use Total 15w40, it has performed better than any other in A series engines down the years, by a good margin. Make sure the air filter isn't ancient and the foam's not beginning to disintegrate, nothing worse than having to unblock carb jets when on international sorties, it's usually the idle galleries which bung, which means pulling the carb off and blowing through from underneath.

 

As for running flat out for prolonged periods, would you subject your Anglia to this? It might be designed for this, but it's still half a century old and you've not had the engine apart, so who knows how well work has been done in the past? If you do, then lift off every half hour or so for half a minute and cruise at half throttle, in certain circumstances the engine oil can slowly make its way up the engine.

 

Can you post a sound file or youtube of the engine at idle for a few seconds, then being revved sharply to about 2/3 max and back two or three times? Mike about 10 feet from the front of the car, bonnet open. Repeat with mike at tailpipe, I should be able to tell if the timing's out.

[jonny69]

Ah, cool. Well I managed to get a filter on the way home. Nothing at my local spares shop but they said to try the classic Citroen specialist round the corner. Huh, what classic Citroen specialist? Well there's a place called Citroen Classics less than a mile away from my house. Couple of DSs out the front and one being worked on, plus a couple of shipping containers full of spares. The guy recognised my car. Awesome! So I have a filter and it's a Purflux...

 

Cheers for the heads up with the coil. I'll make sure I have a spare onboard. I've got a pair of spare plugs coming in the post.

 

I only ask about running flat out because people say it is designed to run flat out and, uh, cough, I've been running it flat out every day I take it to work and it doesn't seem to mind. To answer the Anglia question: yes I do. So it'll be fine then

 

Timing seems to be spot on and I set the idle mixture a couple of days ago using the maximum speed method. Cleaned out the oil cooler when I had the fan off.

[forddeliveryboy]

Remember to douse the new foam in oil, or it won't work. Could've been fuel vaporisation the other day in the jam. This modern stuff is more prone, I think. What plugs are you running?

 

If it's survived flat out day after day then all should be well. Good to hear of someone driving these as they should be!

What's best Vmax to date?

[dollywobbler]

Ha! That'll be Matt at Citroen Classics, who used to be the Ami Registrar in 2CVGB. A very useful contact I'd suggest. Last time I saw him, we were travelling in his Fiat 126 with a pizza almost as wide as the car. (as related in sh*t Volvo collection capers last year).

[Bfg]

.

I have next to no direct experience of the Ami-6  but it seems from the under-bonnet photo of your car (p.9 / 17th May) that there's no ducting for manifold heat out through the inner wings, as found on the 2cv and Dyane.?   

 

FDB : Combined with the smaller engine working extra hard to pull a heavier car,  possibly well-ladened in its estate variant - wouldn't the lack of these ducts lead to excessively high under-bonnet temperatures and a greater tendancy to overheat than a 2cv - which additionally has a big opening on either side of the bonnet,  and a large surface area bonnet which would better transfer said heat to the atmostphere ..than that of the Ami ?   

 

Jonny :  if overheating does appear to be an issue ;  might I suggest you retard the ignition - just a few degrees.  We have to do this on the old Sunbeams (likewise an air cooled engine) while running-in.  Retardation results in a slight drop in power but that's not a problem for running-in speeds,  and the engine runs noticably cooler  ..they have a tendancy to seize otherwise.   However, when our engines are fully run in (as much as a thousand miles on these Sunbeams)  then the ignition is commonly set 3 to 5 degree advanced, to better utilise their potential power.

 

As you don't know the history of your engine - Is there any possibility that it may have been rebuilt ..and so still tight ?  

 

One final note to remember is that the air-cooled Citroen engines rely on their fan to keep them cool -  so revving the engine with a light load,  in preference to slogging it..,  helps cooling.   That driving style along with its seemingly-excessive whirring noise might be very alien to what you are used to with the Anglia. ! ?  

 

( Again, 'riding style'  is a common problem of with new-to-Sunbeam owners - who are often experienced bikers, but very much used to the long-stroke British or German classics ).

 

Hope that helps, Peter

[forddeliveryboy]

Good point regarding heater dump tubes, I can't remember what the arrangement is on the older engines in Amis. They're essential on the later cars to keep under-bonnet temps down in summer, but I don't think the early 2cvs had them.

[dollywobbler]

Not sure about retarding the ignition. Go too far and you'll be causing it to overheat even more. Is there an undertray fitted?

[Bfg]

Good point regarding heater dump tubes, I can't remember what the arrangement is on the older engines in Amis. They're essential on the later cars to keep under-bonnet temps down in summer, but I don't think the early 2cvs had them.

 

Likewise I don't know the heat-dump arrangement on the very early 2cv's, but below is of a 1955 2cv.   Perhaps in Citroen's cleverness ..the  ripple  bonnet with its larger grille opening & side louvres was for more than just good looks or stiffness ?

 

[jonny69]

FDB: B7HS plugs. Seems to be quite happy to sit at about 75 on the flat which is around the 100 mark on the (mostly meaningless) speedo and it'll get up to 80 with a bit of a tail wind. Downhill it'll go off the (mostly meaningless) clock but I don't really want to push it too far! The clock is in km but it's going way faster than 62mph at an indicated 100kph. 80 is definitely not 50 in the 50 zones either!

 

DW: yep, that's the guy! Nice chap, really helpful.

 

Bfg: definitely not recently rebuilt! I'm new to these engines but even to my ear it sounds crank casey enough for me to know it's not fresh! Goes ok though and once I've done the tappets it ought to quieten down. I don't have any longevity worries about the Le Mans trip, fresh oil and it'll be good to go.

 

My heater tubes look a bit like those but with flaps to divert the hot air into the engine bay. There is a pan underneath. I think it'll be fine on the journey. When it got hot before it was when the ignition wasn't behaving so it might have been a contributing factor. I agree on the light revs tactic to keep it cool, I had been doing that figuring that it would be feeding itself cooling air!

[dollywobbler]

If you've got the pan underneath and no dump tubes from the heat exchangers, then it will get getting cosy under there. That said, I'm not sure M4-engined Amis originally had them.

[Bfg]

below : late 1950's chassis, with welded-in under engine tray.  The edges of which turned down for stiffness. 

 

 

Jonny : It would be worth being aware of the possibility of sudden brake fade when things get warm in there..  The later cars had larger brakes with lots more finning, before they switched to disc brakes..,  so I might only assume it to been an issue.   The Ami-super has blown air cooling ducts to the discs.. from the fan cowling - with the air taken before it passes by the cylinders.   

[forddeliveryboy]

Ach, just make sure the basics - timing and mixture are right, oil cooler isn't bunged up - then load the thing to the gunwhales and set off, pied-a-plancher to that peculiar race near Le Mans. Tyres need to be inflated and not totally fooked if you and 4 others are Ami-ing your way there, obviously.

 

Stop bloody fussing. If you've missed the bleeding obvious, it'll expire, if not, it might just get you home. Whichever way, we'll all enjoy an interesting report.

[jonny69]

Oil change and tappets done. MUCH quieter now.

[dollywobbler]

What did you set the gaps to? I often get them the wrong way around, because my brain is convinced that the intake must be at the front for some reason...

[jonny69]

I did them both to 0.2mm. HBOL says 0.15 to 0.2 or a little tighter on a worn engine, but since I don't know these engines yet (and my 0.05 feeler gauge is knacked) I stuck with a safe 0.2mm. What I thought was a bit of crank knock was in fact the exhaust valve clearance on one side.

[dollywobbler]

Haynes is out of date on this one. Exhaust at 0.25mm is better to be honest. 0.2 fine for inlet. Not a terribly bad setting for exhaust, but I prefer a tappy tappet.

[jonny69]

Noted for next time. I'm definitely not getting oil everywhere doing it again!

[dollywobbler]

Yeah, that is the downside with getting the rocker covers off! Good chassis protection if you balls up collecting the falling oil though...

[forddeliveryboy]

FDB: B7HS plugs. Seems to be quite happy to sit at about 75 on the flat which is around the 100 mark on the (mostly meaningless) speedo and it'll get up to 80 with a bit of a tail wind. Downhill it'll go off the (mostly meaningless) clock but I don't really want to push it too far! The clock is in km but it's going way faster than 62mph at an indicated 100kph. 80 is definitely not 50 in the 50 zones either!

 

 

I'd back off once whatever you're using as an accurate speedo suggests much over 95, for your tyres' sake as much as anything. If you're not on larger than standard tyres, then that's the speed around which the revs would reach over the official limit. I had an Ami 8 which would sit at an indicated satnav 80 on the flat with no wind, but often approached 95 with a tailwind or long downslope. Peachy engine in that one, mustard mitt. 

 

 

Likewise I don't know the heat-dump arrangement on the very early 2cv's, but below is of a 1955 2cv.   Perhaps in Citroen's cleverness ..the  ripple  bonnet with its larger grille opening & side louvres was for more than just good looks or stiffness ?

 

 

I think I said early 2cvs deffo didn't have dump tubes, just wasn't sure with the Ami6. Probably not. If this one has a more powerful engine in, I'd be finding a way of pulling more hot air out from under the bonnet area, they do get bloody hot if you leave the dump tubes off, even with the big holes in the inner wings.