Leaking JTD Multipla injectors. Advice req

[HH-R]

My fix it again tomorrow has been an utter bitch to start since about Jan this year... cranking and cranking and cranking but no start. Replacing the camshaft sensor has made it better about 80% of the time but it's still a pain in the arse on occasion. Don't take that for gospel though, it's a petrol anyway. Runs better when cold with the new sensor but still misfires on occasion, is/was always OK when hot. I got no EML showing unless it took a battery-flattening amount of cranking to get it going (at least I know the battery is good!)

[alf892]

Yes it self primes on lower pressure side.........but not on high. High pressure pump is engine driven so any wear/losses show most when cranking.

 

This is just a possible cause that fits your symptoms....and I have seen it a few times....other causes are available!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Seems quite plausible that one of these new injectors has a slight leak then right??

[Lankytim]

Yes, although it was fine for a few days until I removed the injectors to sort the sealing washers properly. I had a poke about with it tonight and found the feed union on one of the injectors looked damp, also the pipe wasnt pefectly in line with the injector so was under strain when the union was tightened. I've corrected it, so ill find out tomorrow if its worked or not.

[Lankytim]

Gah!.no start this morning again! Time to put old injectors back in. Grr!

[The Moog]

Probably stupid question but do they need coding? I am not sure if it applies but don't some moderns need that to work

[Lankytim]

Not on these, no. I think.

[Lankytim]

Knocked off work early today and decided to dedicate the rest of the day to sorting this out.

 

Found theres fuel at the injectors and that one seemed to be soaking wet at the nozzle, so changed it. Decided there wasnt a pulse at the injectors so pulled the crank sensor out to see if it was clagged with grime, except it was seized into the block and smashed to bits leaving it broken off flush.

 

Took the walk of shame to the local garage and explained that id killed the wifes car. I expect it will either be unfixable or cost £bumrape to fix but at this stage I'm at a loss as to what I can do.

[The Moog]

Dont know if this is of help

 

http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/topic91046-1-1.aspx

[Lankytim]

I read that before, its interesting but it does get scrapped in the end, which I want to avoid.

[alf892]

I know you have asked yourself this loads........but when you found the one with the wet nozzle and changed it why didn't you try it?

 

Sorry to ask....

[Lankytim]

Try it? Howd I do that then?

[Lankytim]

Garage have taken 2 days to look at the busted crank sensor and decide they don't want to do it as the subframe needs to come out to get access, even then there's still the problem with the fuel system.

 

Such a mither, and all self inflicted. It's currently abandoned outside the garage, they don't want anything to do with it.

 

Need a PPLKARRIAR and quick, so I'm on the look out for another.

[The Moog]

Is it going to end up scrapped? Or try and fix it when you have time?

[cort16]

What a pisser. I take it there's no access to get a reverse bolt tap or anything in there?

[Lankytim]

I haven't decided what to do with it yet, I've done stacks of work on it and sorted out all the usual Multipla niggles so i'd love to keep it, it's just getting the time to do the work. It may be easier to break it and get something different.

 

The access is a real pain, I have to squeeze my forearm up between the subframe and the back of the engine, there's not really any room to get any extraction tools in.

 

I have considered taking the sump off and getting to the back of the sensor that way, there's a "agitator" wheel that spins around with the crank and triggers the crank sensor, so long as I could poke the sensor out without damaging that then we could be in business.

[Lankytim]

After an garage was recommended to me by the AS safe garage scheme I've towed it to the new garage for repair. Fingers crossed eh?

[Lankytim]

They've swapped the crank sensor by dropping the sump. YAY!!!!!!!!!

 

Unfortunately it still won't start- the high pressure fuel pump is pumping out 9psi instead of 400psi, so either the pump is borked or the pump isn't getting a signal due to some electrical fault.

 

Apparently one of the stored fault codes that can't be cleared is something to do with the key not being recognised. Could the pump still be immobilised by a dodgy key? I have a spare i'm dropping round in a bit.

 

Also, these injectors DO need to be coded in! The ecu said it couldn't find them. One smarty pants AS gold token to whoever suggested that. I had it running with different injectors in though.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Blimey what a cornucopia of crap. I would say that the pump could defo be knocked out by a no-good key.

[Lankytim]

I'm confident we're getting to the bottom of what's going on. The big problem was the crank sensor as if that couldn't be shifted then i'd be right up shit street. Now that's out and a new one in i'm feeling much happier.

 

Google reveals a thread on the fiat forum where a guy had exactly the same problem. No fuel pressure but it would start on easy start. Turns out it was a duff injector letting all the fuel pressure escape down the leak off pipe. A set of used injectors (!) fixed the issue. 

 

Do I have to send injectors off to be tested or can I just strike them on a solid object and listen to the tone they make like a tuning fork? (or something)

[The Moog]

What can I spend my token on

 

Good news about sensor. Hopefully you can get rest sorted

[cort16]

Makes sense to get them tested but it can be pricey

[fordperv]

got my fingers crossed for you

[capsuleboy]

Multipla wallet emptying? I have done 250,000 miles in three of them over the last 12 or so years...totally reliable and pocket money running costs...execpt the £600 clutches in the last two...oh and if you can get above about 38mpg then your a better man than me....

[Lankytim]

They are TOP motors, This one is only broken because I is stupid.

 

Tried the "new" key, it didn't work!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Hairy turds

[Lankytim]

Ok peeps.

 

After taking the injectors to a specialist to be tested and then being told that it would be a week before I got them back (after the mofo said it would be next day on the phone) I decided to drag the Multipla back home so it could die on the driveway in dignity. Before I could do that I had a text from "JonCedric" formerly of RetroRides who told me he had manky Multipla in his field that he was going to weigh in next week, and would like any bits from it before it went? Naturally I begged the injectors from him and drove down today to extract them.

 

Three of the injectors came out fairly easily but the fourth just wouldn't budge. Without access to an extractor I was pretty stumped so I did what any hardcore shiter would do and used a crow bar with a scaffold tube extension. After 45 minutes of sheer mechanical carnage the injector was out, however the engine in the area around the injector was completely destroyed by my crowbar antics, I also bent the injector. 

 

Back at the garage I stuck the injectors in and churned the engine over...... nothing.... a bit of easy start and off it went! Even the bent injector is working OK.

 

The guy at the garage looked amazed when it burst into life, as he was sure that the injector pump is borked. He's still convinced. We'l see. It felt good driving the Multipla away anyway.

 

I dunno why they need to be coded in, as it still runs even with totally alien injectors fitted, maybe its to fine tune the pulses or something?

 

Now, the engine isn't running A1 and the "new" injectors are pretty noisy- they came from a 250k engine so as soon as the other injectors are tested/fixed i'll stick them back in.

 

Oh, and the MOT ran out last week. Feck.

[twosmoke300]

The coding to to tell the ecu the exact flow rate of the individual injectors . They will run ok without doing it but it may over or under fuel a bit . Take a pic of the top of one injector and I'll tell you if they need to be coded or not . Not all cr diesels do , the 2.0 hdi 90 deffo doesnt

[Lankytim]

Will do, thanks.

 

Guess what? It won't start! Although the copper sealing washers are totally borked now and it's losing quite a bit of compression past the injectors. Will start on easy start.

[Lankytim]

Heres the new injectors, and the clunker they were removed from.