Oh noes - Renault fail shocker!!!

[wackywacerwill]

 

Can you guess what it is yet?

 

Slight pressure had been building up since purchase which had be got around for the last 4 -5 hundred miles by bleeding it off and living in denial. I'd be doing the later more than was wise so was little surprised though still heartily disappointed when the top hose jumped ship the other night confirming my fears of that engine bay being so very clean upon purchase.

Next morn the hose was strapped back in place and the system refilled with the finest London tap water though after the 5 mile dash to work the hoses were as hard as John Holmes's johnson and just as in need of release.

In another fine example of urinating into the breeze I bought the above snake oil which now decorates the bay with copper particles. Mucho merde.

 

It's feasible I suppose that the allegedly recent receipted head gasket spanner monkey didn't tighten the top down right and once I find a star shaped doodaa of the correct size we'll give it a whirl. It is also very feasible that the above job was never jobbed and the seller is in need of some extra feedback!

 

Balls.

 

Undecided on where to go from here at the minute so please feel free to offer support/piss taking as you see fit.

 

[derskine]

Does it have an overflow/pressure release pipe?

[wackywacerwill]

Does it have an overflow/pressure release pipe?

 

Noeyedeer.

 

I think it just has the big one at the bottom for er flow and the smaller one up top to let the bubbly mix back in.

 

I guess your saying that it could have a blow off pipe blocked (fnar fnar) will check it out cheers.

[derskine]

Yep, though it could equally just be overheating, not sure if an expansion tank needs a blow off pipe.

[wackywacerwill]

Yeah, pretty sure they come on tankless total loss systems.

 

Should add that the oil is fine looking, if a little black and that the bubbles only appear when the fluid is low (it seems to lose some over time). However after adding the K seal into the mix it's like a foam party in the header tank. The problem seems to be getting worse rather than better...

[Sigmund Fraud]

Is it overheating ? Is the thermostat OK - they can stick closed, and the awful plastic thermostat housing has around 30 areas where it can leak from.

 

Perhaps a compression test is necessary to determine this fine* motor's future ?

[wackywacerwill]

Good shout. Only getting hot issue was when the water jumped out though like you say the stat would be worth a check, the pipes on the bottle end are defo hotter than the rad ones though all go Rocco Siffredi hard when run for 5 minutes or so.

 

I'll pull the stat before it get dark if I get the chance.

 

Hubble bubble toil and trouble

[wackywacerwill]

Update as follows;

 

Stat works, just tested it in the poaching pan on the stove. Interestingly one of the bolts holding the housing on was loose when I took it off though had not been spurting from there so still sealed up. I ran it sans stat to see if it made any odds before I came up stairs to test it and I can confirm it makes no difference either way.

Much frothing from the header ensued, water level drops when the cap is on and rises when I take it off. Much splurtage from the rad tap and and top hose twiddler when bleeding it up too.

It may be my imagination but I think there is a tang of veg about the water/froth too.

 

I have a comp tester somewhere so that may well be worth a go though I'm a little reluctant as there is also a receipt for a injector re thread and something makes me think it cause undue pain. All in I'm pretty sure it's broke.

[scooters]

Lob 2 bottles of kseal in it and it will be fine, I had a 2 mm hg hole on a b series once and it plugged it and ran well for another 29k. K seal us superb stuff, I've used it on everything from a k series to a jag v12. Part if the warranty we carry on our large diesel compressors us that they have oil dry shut offs and steel seal (k seal big briva) in the coolant as a protection vs coolant leaks and head issues. That's from the warranty companies engineers who introduced it from the ambulance service

 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[320touring]

How is the waterpump? not one of them daft plastic impellor ones is it?

[scooters]

Plastic impellarz r shit

 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[wackywacerwill]

Not sure about buying more K seal as I spunked my last 12.99 on the bottle I put in a few days back and it did the same as last time I used some, sweet FA. I know many say it's good though I'd be begrudged to pay nigh on £40 quid for some thing that may work, that's gasket and bolts money right there.

 

Not sure what the whirly bit on the pump is made of, it seems to be circulating OK though would be worth a look before pulling the head fosho.

[Largactil]

U IZ A OMG HGF PHAIL MAGNET!

 

Bad luck Will - Hope you get it sorted, as it looks a tidy wee motor.

 

(The HG you did on the 205 is holding up well - It's still running around, and taxed till July!)

[PhilA]

Is the radiator flowing freely? If the plumbing follows a similar theme to mine (It's a Renault.. diesel, petrol it's all the same but different) then the heater will get pingingly hot and the expansion tank will too but the radiator won't really get that warm

 

Of course, this is just speculation that it's something other than OMGHGF.

 

--Phil

[wackywacerwill]

Good to hear the 205 is still going strong, a nice little boost to getting this one sorted too.

 

It's all just the fun and games when blind buying shite at the very pit of the market, sometimes you go trouble free and sometimes not. Once I won the bid and spent £80 in fuel to go and get this I just took the seller for his word and handed the cash, should of looked it over and walked away really but never mind, all done now. I could cut my losses and run and that may well be the sensible option but since when did that come into it. I'm begrudged to give up now.

 

Strip down and inspection looming, will see what it needs and take it from there.

[Sigmund Fraud]

The issue with our end of the market is that you never know what kind of maintenance the cars have had. Some cars are owned by obsessive mentalists who replace oil and coolant every six months. Others have been running for years with their sump full of tar and their cooling system full of fluid that is as effective in preventing corrosion as sulphuric acid.

 

Still... Those old F8 engines are very. very simple and quite strong. In typical Renault fashion, sorting out the problem won't be particularly expensive, only ridiculously time-consuming and infuriating !

[wackywacerwill]

I haz star fangled head bolt undoer.

I am on the brink of making a coffee and then popping down stairs to find that this is nothing more serious than a head bolt or two not being done up properly. It is in no way going to be a cracked head.

[Ratdat]

Bonne chance, monsieur!

[wackywacerwill]

Thanks, sadly and predictably it was a case of pisser dans le vent.

 

Coffee was good, I'll have another and mull over if I can be arsed to do more on this today. The new car romance has died and despite not having access to a derv spec compression tester I fear with the amount of bubblage coming out the top that the head is well borked. This combined with having many other things to do is making me think that biting the bullet with this one is the way to go, I'd still be interested to take the top off to find out more mind and would feel I've done it a disservice if I don't. Besides the head is a good chuck of irony alloy that needs separating regardless!

[alf892]

A compression test is not a good test for HGF anyway really unless it has gone between two adjacent pots.

HG can fail in many ways including:

 

From pot to water gallery....pressurizes coolant

From water to oil............mayo oil

From oil to water............mayo water

Oil gallery to external.........leak

Water gallery to external.......leak

 

Cracked head can give pressure in coolant but cracking does not always mean u/s. Quite a few indirect diesels show cracking around pre combustion chamber but this is rarely a problem.

 

Sniff test is better where it looks for hydrocarbons in the coolant but will not diagnose other modes of failure.

 

Obs you have a Renno so its probably fkd but don't condemn it just yet!

 

Take more coffee and proceed

[alf892]

forgot popular one!!

Water gallery into pot......gives slight coolant loss at first and sometime starting up on three

[wackywacerwill]

Well...

 

 

Pressurizing like biatch so pot to water was expected. Straight of the block the leftermost pot would seem to confirm this.

 

Rightermost when looking from here

 

Head after a scrape with mr stanley

Love the way they look like four surprised monkeys. Looks alright to me and passed the straight edge test. Begs the question why it has failed when it was/may have been done fairly recently. It's tight to the gallery where it has gone so looks a likely fail point. A bit of lumpiness was scraped away and there's a few small cracks in the monkey mouth bits on all pots which in my humble opinion don't matter.

 

So...

It looks like it may have had a gasket fairly recently as the gasket itself don't look that old and there was more than a little trace of copper grease on the head bolts. The receipt I was given with the car shows it had/may of had a skim though I'd say this has never happened judging by the marking on the head.

A skim, new water pump, belt, tensioner and of course gasket is undoubtedly the way it should be done though I'm skint so am deliberating if the gasket alone will suffice or if I should double side tape some sandpaper to a flat surface and do a home skim before mating it all back together?

 

As always all thoughts, pisstaking and advice much appreciated.

[alf892]

We'll given it passes straight edge test I would clean (check the pitting carefully) and stick it back ok with good make gasket and new bolts. Does it tighten by torque or base torque then degrees?

 

 

That receipt.....is it for this car?

[tooSavvy]

I have 'done' an IMP head, with much reciprocation on wet'ndry (oiled), across a kitchen worktop offcut.

 

.... don't ask!

 

TS

[wackywacerwill]

We'll given it passes straight edge test I would clean (check the pitting carefully) and stick it back ok with good make gasket and new bolts. Does it tighten by torque or base torque then degrees?

 

 

That receipt.....is it for this car?

Base torque and angles and yes, this car allegedly had a gasket, skim and injector re thread a few hundred miles before I purchased it.

[alf892]

Maybe an idea to check head with straight edge around fail point especially in that case because it failed for a reason......I suspect the seller may have known too but then I am a cynical bugger.

 

The above assumes it was assembled by someone competent with decent parts.

 

Is there much pitting around fail point? I have cleaned pits with needle and built up with epoxy (like bike forks!) which has worked

[wackywacerwill]

Like your thinking. I'm guessing it was done of late with a lack of competence, the gasket looks a lot like an ebay item! I'm a cynical bugger too.

 

A little pitting around the blow point though the poxy trick sounds a goodun.

[alf892]

Agree. When you put it back give the bolt holes a bloody good blow out after running a tap down them because any tightness 'absorbs' the initial torque and once finished a bolt with a slightly tight thread is actually looser than the others.

 

An old bolt with a grinder slash down the thread can replace a tap for cleaning purposes

[PhilA]

I'm more amused that Renault took that engine, changed the pistons and stuck injectors where the spark plugs used to go.

 

Looks like someone didn't clean up properly when they did the gasket* and/or didn't replace the head bolts

 

--Phil

[Vince70]

I wonder if you could tell me when you took the head off did you see any sign of blockage caused by the K seal..