Motorcycling - Current Chinese Shite v. Older Japanese Shite

[PiperCub]

The modern 125 buyer is a lucky person. There's some cracking looking bikes about now, reckon I'd be well up for a CBR125 in Repsol colours if I was after a small first bike. Won't be too long before the Chinese stuff is like the Jap stuff of the seventies: laughed at at first, but the quality just got better and better.

 

That's just it in a nutshell, in another 10-15 years the Chinese kit will be pretty well as good as the Jap stuff. When the Japs started exporting to the west in the 60's, their bikes were slagged off a crap, flimsy, don't last a couple of years, can't get spares etc. etc. (my dad told me this!) but move forward ten years, then twenty and what a change. The Chinese stuff will go the same way. 

[gtd2000]

Saw one of these in the local stealership:

 

http://www.mashmotorcycles.co.uk/model/adventurer/mash-adventurer-400cc-efi

 

 

 

It has a Honda derived power-plant [from the 80s] and is about £4.5k

 

They've also got a lovely looking cafe racer.

 

 

I looked at the Shineray XY400 bikes in South Africa (Mash Roadstar) where it's called a Crosby 400TT.

 

They also stock the Scrambler and Cafe editions too.

 

They had a the stock version that was a year old, it was horrifically worn out looking to my eye.

 

I notice they've put the price up on the bikes, they were around £2700 which is a fair bit of a saving on the UK pricing!

 

Shineray actually manufactured the Honda CB400SS for Honda back in the day.

 

[gtd2000]

Crosby variants of the Shineray XY400 up Pretoria way.

 

 

 

[LostnotFound]

At 2700 I can see the appeal, you aren't at risk of lots of depreciation. You could have a nice new bike that you can look after yourself and keep it looking shiny etc...

 

But you can get a new pre reg sv650 for 4600. Which surely is not just better financial sense but even if you were keeping the bike for life, just a lot more for your money than a sub 30hp bimbler.

[gtd2000]

When I was in South Africa they were also selling the Hyosung GV650 for a very reasonable £3500 new!

 

When you looked at the build quality between the Crosby and the Hyosung the Hyosung looked to be more than twice the bike.

 

Here's an older model advert:

 

But this is the style they had for R59000:

 

 

Not sure why they are so much more expensive in the UK as RSA import duties and taxes are way higher than here in the UK.

[UltraWomble]

38 months later...

 

Was I imagining things that you were selling this?

[strangeangel]

Shineray actually manufactured the Honda CB400SS for Honda back in the day.

 

 

Do you have a source for this information please?

[gtd2000]

Was I imagining things that you were selling this?

 

Didn't have any plans to sell.

 

Good fun little bikes actually and make a lot more sense that spending lots of time sorting out an even more expensive Honda Cub - if the Honda's were cheap, I'd take the Honda of course

[gtd2000]

Do you have a source for this information please?

 

Google example:

 

http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genuine-scooter-company/genuine-g400c-motorcycle-in-detail/

 

There were other examples but not finding them right now.

 

 

While that is the bike’s future, it’s the G400C’s past that’s more interesting. From 2002 on, a version of this bike was produced by Shineray for Honda, who sold it as the Honda CB400SS, seen below.

[gtd2000]

I see there's another variant of it out there now:

 

The exhaust line needs fettling for my taste - it's the wrong angle as far as I'm concerned...

 

http://kengomotors.com/product/kengo-classic-400-kg400

 

[twosmoke300]

That must be so strangled to get it through modern emission / noise laws . Like a yammy SR500

[DodgeRover]

What are these MASH 50s like? I've seen a couple about, they appear to have almost as much power as a CB50 but they do look the business for a proper none racerep trailie bike at 16

[strangeangel]

Google example:

 

http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genuine-scooter-company/genuine-g400c-motorcycle-in-detail/

 

There were other examples but not finding them right now.

 

Thanks for that. Worrying that Honda would allow Shiteray to build anything more complicated than a tin opener on their behalf, having seen (and worked on) some of the crap thus badged here, but then they also got into bed with Jialing at one time...

[DodgeRover]

I really don't get the anti Jialing / Daelim sentiment for the money they were when they came out you would have been looking at a 15 year old Japanese bike, if you looked after them they aren't bad really from a reliability standpoint

[strangeangel]

I really don't get the anti Jialing / Daelim sentiment for the money they were when they came out you would have been looking at a 15 year old Japanese bike, if you looked after them they aren't bad really from a reliability standpoint

 

Jialing and Daelim (who mentioned Daelim anyway?) are two very different things.

 

Any fifteen year old Japanese bike >>>>>>>> any Jialing. I've owned one - have you?

[DodgeRover]

Used to sell them, they both came through the same importer into the uk. We had very few come back with warranty issues, they did need a mega PDI before being sent out. Then again at 500 miles which was a free oil change and check over.

[gtd2000]

Most small capacity "Japanese" bikes are made in China these days anyway. The much recommended Yamaha YBR is made by Jianshe on their behalf. It used to be the case you could buy a very similar Jianshe equivalent with the "Yamaha"engine for about £700!

 

The Chinese stuff isn't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be. I've bought two so far and been quite happy with them due the money. Then again, there's no way I'd be splashing out the sort of money they are asking for Euro 4 spec 125cc bikes at the moment. The Japanese pricing is also laughable.

[UltraWomble]

Didn't have any plans to sell.

 

must have imagined it then.

(((Goes off to search bumtree)))

[gtd2000]

Not many advertised these days but you can still get the new "Kayak" branded version from mini bike craze.

 

They have an eBay store and their own website.

[UltraWomble]

Ive seen those, also on my radar is the Sym Symba - a local bike dealer has one in at £1200 new on the road. The seat puts me off a bit though - and trying to find a bench seat in the UK seems impossible. The Kayak Cub clones at £900 seem a bit better value. Plus they would probably* take an XY engine if the original one goes pop.

[gtd2000]

The Sym Symba is a far better built bike.

 

I bought one almost two years ago for my ex.

 

The one I bought (on the USA) came with the detachable buddy seat.

 

If buying a new one, I'd say there's more value in the higher priced Symba , not to mention a decent warranty.

[gtd2000]

A fun little bike would be a Kymco K-Pipe.

[gtd2000]

There's a whole thread on the cub clones over at c90club.co.uk. it's in the other models section under Rider's Super Cub

[gtd2000]

http://www.c90club.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18314

 

And

 

http://www.c90club.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31769

[UltraWomble]

A fun little bike would be a Kymco K-Pipe.

Ive never seen them for sale new - for a few quid more is the Chinese built Benelli TNT125 £50 a month over 36 months with deposit gets you one of these:

[UltraWomble]

Shame the Yamasaki only comes with a 50cc - however does look like an XY type engine so maybe a larger one will slot in

[UltraWomble]

139 FMB engine in that Yamasaki - so the 150FMG will swap straight over and give another 100cc - also needs a CDi swap as its limited.

[strangeangel]

Used to sell them, they both came through the same importer into the uk. We had very few come back with warranty issues, they did need a mega PDI before being sent out. Then again at 500 miles which was a free oil change and check over.

 

You didn't sell the JL-250 (Helix copy) did you? They were terrible. I bought one that had been advertised as spears/repair because it had snapped the drive belt. It had done 3500km, and came with receipts for warranty work replacing front wheel bearings (1000km) and the final drive output shaft bearing (2000km). The reason the belt had snapped was because the rear clutch assembly had collapsed. I took all the nice shiny bodywork, seat, top box, screen etc. off for one of my old Helixes, and punted the rest. The engine sold within days, to a chap whose JL had seized up under him at 10000km. I have a mate who still has one rotting at the back of his garage, that one had terminal electrical problems. None are still on the road, according to howmanyleft, yet the 25+ year old Hondas they were cloned from are still around. So I would definitely take a 15yo Japanese/European machine over a brand new Chinese domestic market product every time.

 

The above has been representative of pretty much all my experience of Chinese motorcycles/engines, with the exception of Lifan, whose Cub copies seem pretty durable... if 3rd gear doesn't fail within the first 1000 or so miles you'll probably be OK, and knowing as many people who run them as I do, I would say the failure rate is about 1 in 10. The one I ran managed 10000 miles in three years of hard commuting, anyway. I also tried a Wuyang Cub-style motor too, on the basis that enough people depended on them to deliver pizza, and that was fine too.

 

The real problem is that most of the stuff that was sold here by a container-load here and a container-load there, badged as Jialing, CFmoto, Jonway, Jianshe, Shineray is cheap, Chinese domestic market crap built down to a price, not to be confused with the stuff they build under licence for the big names which has a considerably higher price tag. And the nature of these sales means that you don't have any sort of dealer network backup when you want spare parts, e.g. Riders who brought in the Cub copies - they stopped importing the bikes a while back, and just as quickly stopped selling spares!

 

Daelim (and Sym) make some very decent stuff, although their prices aren't a lot lower than the big manufacturers these days. I ran a Daelim for a year - an NS125 made, in the AS fashion, from a crashed one and a broken one - and had no problems, save for the dealer network had collapsed and spares weren't available. The chap I bought my DN from downsized to a 250 S3 and is very happy with it. I would happily own another Daelim.

[gtd2000]

Ive never seen them for sale new - for a few quid more is the Chinese built Benelli TNT125 £50 a month over 36 months with deposit gets you one of these:

I think that's what some people consider to be a cheaper MSX?

 

Still way too much money for a cheap Chinese bike in my opinion.

 

If it was around £1000 then perhaps...

[DodgeRover]

No no Helix copies, while I was there the shop had the JH125L which was the XL copy and a single CG lookalike and lots of the monkey bikes.

They were mostly bought by practical owners, they did want the wheels trueing up at the first service though. Thinking back all I can remember supplying owners parts wise was consumables cables, chains & sprockets