Arseholes of the year award goes too Alfa Romeo

[garethj]

I'll never understand why people buy new cars - no offence or anything, but this just reinforces it. In two months I've done 3,000 miles in my 114k mile, 120 quid car with a ratty old 1.2 engine without any trouble and I'd make a profit if it ever terminally broke down (which it won't). Or maybe I've just been perpetually lucky with shit, old cars.

Without this turning into an "old cars vs new cars" thing again, you can't use just your experience for everyone. You don't have to look far to find someone who bought an old car and it broke down within a month.

 

The reliability of a car is playing the statistics game, there are things you can do to improve your odds but new cars are usually much more reliable than old ones. Perhaps more important, if a new car breaks down it gets fixed under warranty for free, if an old car breaks down (the perception is) you have to argue with dealers at 90 quid an hour or go to a backstreet garage who can't fix it.

 

If your car starts off as well built, it's been cared for in the past and you treat it well, the odds are heavily in your favour. Lots of us try and take this route and save £££ a month doing it.

 

I think the problem comes from about 20 years ago when all the consumer programmes and magazines were saying that new car prices in Britain were much more than in Europe. There were people who ordered RHD cars from Belgium, and even with the cost of driving them back saved thousands over the cost in the UK. Eventually, UK dealers brought their prices down.

 

At about the same time their labour charges went from £20 per hour to £50 per hour and have been climbing steadily since. My other half used to have a new Peugeot 406 as a company car, the MD who lived in France said it was cheaper to have his Porsche serviced than her 406. I suppose when the main dealers looked at their balance sheet, one bit of profit has gone through the floor so another, has to go up.

 

If your 3 year old Sierra goes wrong it's not so bad paying a dealer for 3 hours labour to fix it. Forward a few years and if your 3 year old Mondeo goes wrong it's almost a mortgage payment to fix it. A dealer's warranty then looks attractive.

 

I think that's rambled nicely and de-railed the thread

 

Hope you get the Alfa sorted.

[Lacquer Peel]

It sounds like Alfa Romeo UK have been fuds, but why did you buy a diesel car to cover such a meagre mileage? Sounds like a petrol or diesel driven more often would have been fine.

[ashmicro]

To be fair to Alfa, it's not just their dealers who are shit, and it's not a new thing either. I bought this, brand new, when I was 21, and it was fucking AWFUL.

 

 

It was a dream car for me: pearlescent paint, fancy rims, half leather seats etc. And it was DIRE. Within 3 days it shat it's power steering pump. Within a week it has boked up all its coolant. The tyres wouldn't stay up, the back seat burst, alternator FELL OFF, loads of things. And the dealer, Charles Hurst Rover (Belfast) were fucking useless. If I'd had the knowledge that I have now, I'd have rejected the car after a week, but I kept it, sorted it out myself, and lost 9 grand in 4 years (the car was only £11k).

 

I know where the OP is coming from, it's really disappointing when this stuff happens.

[Pete-M]

My brother had a new 420 SLi. That set fire to its alternator loom before it got home from the dealers.

 

To give new cars some credit, I do a huge number of miles every year in new cars and despite racking up around 1500 miles a week I've not had a breakdown or major mechanical issue with one for over three years. Which is over 200,000 miles.

 

One engine management light came on. Caused by a frayed loom to the EGR valve on a car that had done 45k in seven months. . Otherwise, nothing.

[cort16]

Morgan84 it sounds like you did the right thing. You can spend half your life fighting "the man" but if you can avoid all that stress and having to live with an unreliable car with a bit of a financial loss it's 100% understandable.

It's the service that really lets them down. If the car had, had the same problems but the dealer had been understanding and helpfull you probably wouldn't feel the same about them. It's when things go tits up that you really see what an organization's all about and it looks like Alfa have been left wanting. Shame really, I had a 159 diesel from new and did 40,000 miles in it in 2 years and not one single thing went wrong and with it and it felt as well screwed together as any other decent modern car I've had.

 

I was speaking to a guy who worked for Daewoo when the came to the UK with the Nexia etc the other day and he said that they managed to get massive customer satisfaction results from a mediocre product because they wrote in a cost for fixing the cars when they went wrong. This meant if you came in with any problem they'd fix it free of cost, pick the car up from your work and drop you off a courtesy car. This meant their customers loved them, they sold 40,000 cars a year and still made money. GM fucked it all up when they took over obviously.

[mrcitroen]

I'm another who bought an Alfa new (well pre reg with 15 miles on it) Unlike Morgan, I have had a totally different ownership experience. When I got the car I found a few niggly minor issues, I booked it in for warranty & they sorted it without any issue, fuss or complaint. When the car was around a year old, it started to drive like shit. I called the dealer & explained the symptoms and was told 'that will be the EGR valve, I'll order one in' took the car in 2 days later & sorted. Shortly afterwards I found the inner faces of the front discs were badly scored & pitted. I tried to put that through as warranty as in my opinion a year old car with 10K on it should not suffer with such. Dealer rejected as they said it was W&T Got it done VIA Customer support no problem. It turns out it is a common issue on Brembo 5 pot setup as they need stripped & cleaned regularly.

 

The car has been 100% reliable. The only issue is that the rear park sensors do not work (intermittent) That is not Alfa's fault as it is a generic Valeo unit fitted to many other makes of cars. If one of the injectors packed in who's fault would that be? Bobby Bosch methinks!

 

I'm not defending ARUK in the slightest, but the franchisees they have are very much a mixed bag, from woeful beyond belief, to good. Around 5/6 years ago ARUK had a purge of 'sub standard' dealers in the uk. In Scotland Sir Arnie lost his in Glasgow & Edinburgh. TBH, I think the need another purge, but I think Alfa is on the downward spiral with only 2 models on offer and nothing but rumors of any forthcoming new products.

 

Would I buy another Alfa? Yes indeed! Personally I don't think they are worse than anything else and the new generation Alfa's (with the exception of Morgan's) are well built good to drive machines. around the same time I bought the Alfa, one of my colleagues got a split new 3 series Msport. Now that was unreliable. Even the ultimate driving machine can have lemons.

[cort16]

I live in Ayrshire and used to have to take it over to Edinburgh to get it serviced at Western. Towards the end of the time I had it they opened that little dealership in Glasgow, which made it much easier.

I know Audi have a specialist repair centre that they can send cars to that are beyond the dealers ability to fix. I heard stories of an A8 with electrical gremlins that took something like 1000 man hours to repair. I think they actually gave the customer a new car but repaired it as excercise in worst case scenarios.

[mrcitroen]

I always used Edinburgh. The service manager that took over as my warranty was about to run out last year was an arrogant little shit, but the guy before him was the complete opposite who would be only to happy to help.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I know Audi have a specialist repair centre that they can send cars to that are beyond the dealers ability to fix. I heard stories of an A8 with electrical gremlins that took something like 1000 man hours to repair. I think they actually gave the customer a new car but repaired it as excercise in worst case scenarios.

 

That doesn't surprise me. A mate is a mechanic in the local VAG emporium and the issues these cars have is just unreal. The 2.0TDi engine is a complete disaster as are the non Quatto autoboxes (Multitronic?), the electrics, window regulators, electronic handbrakes. They're just a pile of shit to be avoided at all costs once the warranty is done. VW stuff isn't a lot better either.

[Parky]

Get on Twitter. Find the last thing tested by Alfa Romeo UK, and reply to it while summarising how angry you are in 140 characters. That will ensure that at least the 7979 followers get to hear about your issues.

 

Some of those folk will be regular customers, others actual customers. Either way ain't no simpler way to spread the word to a good chunk of people and Alfa UK might be inclined to do something if their reputation is being justifiably sullied.

 

I had issues with John Lewis. The store couldn't give a shit but as soon as I started complaining on Twitter they took an interest and worked hard to get an amicable resolution. Better that than their 43000 followers reading about how rubbish they were.

 

I am a moaning Minnie but if I get good service, I tell people, write letters to managers or give positive feedback on websites ensuring the good people are named. Unfortunately it cuts both ways so crap service gets shouted from the rooftops too.

[Pete-M]

Weirdly enough, most of the 200,000 miles I've done recently have been in Skodas powered by the VW 2.0 TDi described above as a "complete disaster". Not had a problem (other than that one wiring fault...)

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Weirdly enough, most of the 200,000 miles I've done recently have been in Skodas powered by the VW 2.0 TDi described above as a "complete disaster". Not had a problem (other than that one wiring fault...)

 

That's because they don't have the infamous balancer shaft/oil pump set up, but have the same chain driven pump as the old 1.9TDi. The A4, A5, A6 and Passat however do.

[ashmicro]

^ PSNI hate them, to the extent that they prefer the Vectra. Oil pan fires and driveshaft woes being the two main issues. Not too many used as taxis round here anymore. either. The car of the moment seems to be the new D4D Avensis.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I had issues with John Lewis.

 

Me too. They use that awful, murdered version of a Frankie classic. Someone at JL needs shooting for that.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

^ PSNI hate them, to the extent that they prefer the Vectra.

 

Which car? Audi or Skoda?

[ashmicro]

Skodas. They don't use Audis, except for a sneaky beaky RS4.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Skodas. They don't use Audis, except for a sneaky beaky RS4.

 

 

Aah. The Octavius uses the transverse Golf/A3 unit with the old oil pump. They have various head gasket and cracked head issues and are not well regarded. The old 1.9TDi was as durable as the pyramids. The Superb used the longditudinal motor and has the same oil pump problems as the Audi, plus the head/gasket issues.

Round here, the old B5 1.9TDi Passat and Octavia are the weapon of choice but we're seeing more and more Avensisisis.

[Cavcraft]

It really is time to worry if a B5 is more reliable than a new VAG.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

It really is time to worry if a B5 is more reliable than a new VAG.

 

They are. VAG have really fallen down of late. Lots of stupid problems such as self destructing window regulators and the infamous electronic handbrake - what a load of shit they are. GM did it properly by having a big motor in the tunnel to pull conventional handbrake cables. VAG put an electric motor...IN A PLASTIC CASING!...on each rear caliper. Pure genius - plastic splits with cold, water gets in, rusts it all to buggery. New caliper around 500 quid or a motor for around £300. That's aside of the wiring problems from the caliper to the under dash handbrake ECU* or the switch going tits up. Apply the h/b with hot brakes and as the brakes cool, the electronic handbrake - unlike a proper one with cables under tension - will release as the discs cool and the car runs away.

 

VAG = over rated crap.

 

 

 

 

 

*Yes. A handbrake control unit. It would be funny if it were not true.

[Cavcraft]

I remember the caliper bit, they had one in at the garage my lad used to work at and I'm sure he said you're supposed to connect it to a computer just to get the bloody caliper to release.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I remember the caliper bit, they had one in at the garage my lad used to work at and I'm sure he said you're supposed to connect it to a computer just to get the bloody caliper to release.

 

That's right, although you can use an allen key and turn the piston about 150 times. Seriously - the motor turns a mega fine threaded rod into the piston around 150 times to clamp the pads to the disc. Two new motors with fitting is going to be around 800 quid. Like that's going to happen when the car is worth 800 sheets.

 

Suddenly, a V plate Mondeo looks like a really good idea.

[VC10dan]

I presume your referring to Desira Alfa Romeo in terms of the Norwcih Alfa dealer.

 

To be honest your spoilt for choice for shite garages in Norwich, Robinsons VW over the road are equally as awful. They sold us a mk5 golf tdi 170 with a failing DMF, broken air con compressor that has now damaged the condenser, drier and evaporator units. It started rusting it's front arches out at 4 years old, they kept the car 2 weeks just to replace the wings.

 

Awful garages

[Spiny Norman]

It's a shame you've had such a bad experience with the car, but in Alfa's defence I'll say that you probably weren't the prime candidate for a modern Diseasel doing the low mileage you do and the Mito's an Alfa in badge only.... Maybe if you'd bought the fizzy little 1.4 petrol version and ragged it, things might have worked out different for you.

Or maybe not, maybe they are just shit and the dealer was useless.

 

Must say I had nothing but good experiences with my Alfa 156, even the dealer seemed quite competent until they got taken over by Arnold Shark and I stopped going to them.

Whatever, once a car blots its copybook that badly you're never going to be happy with it and the £1000 loss is worth it just be shot of the hassle and inconvenience it's caused.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Arnold Shark

 

 

Is there a single good word for him?

[Spiny Norman]

Arnold Shark

 

 

Is there a single good word for him?

 

That IS a good word. I was being polite by omitting the word "cunting" from the name...

[Cavcraft]

FiatDaft?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Sir Arnold Cunting Clark

 

 

It does have a certain ring.

 

FD has been quiet of late. Probably selling/buying/underwriting 143 cars a day.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Christ, this Guy is everywhere with franchises for:

 

* Vauxhall

* Ford

* Toyota

* Volkswagen

* Seat

* Nissan

* Citroën

* Fiat

* Renault

* Honda

* Hyundai

* Volvo

* Mazda

* Kia

* Skoda

* Chevrolet

* Chrysler

* Jeep

* BMW (Harry Fairbairn)

* Mini (Harry Fairbairn)

* Mercedes-Benz (John R. Weir)[4]

 

So, just about everything. He also owns Simon LeBon's yacht, which is nice.

 

As piss poor as they clearly are, they can't be worse than a Pendragon owned dealership. They really are the sweaty arse crack of the motor trade.

[Spiny Norman]

It's quite difficult NOT to buy a new car in Scotland from AC these days.

I've been on his yacht, it's very nice. Even nicer knowing I haven't contributed to its upkeep...

 

To be honest, AC himself is a decent enough bloke, typical 'self made man come good' type of guy. Started with one wee garage in Glasgow's west end (still there as far as I know, in Park Road) and grew the business from there. My Dad bought a couple of cars from him way back when.

The problem comes mainly from their typical big company ethos of 'screwing as much cash as possible from the customer while doing fuck all'.

[cort16]

AC's cheaper than most other places, which is enough for most "I want a blue one" type punters. They stick unprepped cars out on the lot and wait to see if the customer pulls them up about a ding or borked wheels. If they don't then cha-ching. They stack them high and sell them cheap then bum you on the finance. Oh and if try to bring one back then good luck!

Fair play to them though they do seem like a well organized operation with ruthless stock rotation rules, which can find you on the right end of a bargain. If they didn't know what the where doing they wouldn't be in the position they're in. I think if they worked a bit more on there customer satisfaction post sale then they could improve their reputation massively but then again why would they they've already sold you the car.