GM joining with PSA

[gtd2000]

I'd say the Koreans (Hyundai/KIA) are the ones making the biggest steps right now.

 

They have Japanese levels of reliability, now produce products that you would aspire to own, industry leading warranty coverage and reasonable cost of entry.

 

The only thing that's missing is the premium branding imagery...

[Formula Autos]

Class plate. Nobody outside of Glesga would get it though...

 

There's a Sassenach here who gets it - thanks to many hours spent watching Still Game*.

 

*Possibly THE finest sit-com ever made. Given that there's hee-haw on the telly these days, the DVD box set gets watched a lot.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

now produce products that you would aspire to own

 

I would disagree with you there. They do make well built reliable stuff (not including the Piccccanto crankshaft / pulley problems) but it depreciates as rapidly as it goes out of fashion. This years 'funky' Kia or Hyundai will be 2018's auction orphan worth about £800.

 

Japanese stuff isn't aspirational and they've been at it for decades. It's seen as Old Farts wheels with a touch of chav (OMG DRIFT).

[Father Ted]

What do most drivers want out of a car?

Reliable

Cheap

Comfortable

Safe

 

Further down the list appears styling. BUT though I doubt many people would admit to it "badge" is quite high up.

25 years ago Skoda was laughable and certainly you wouldnt find a Skoda taxi in Manchester. The brand has changed and now they are no longer perceived as cheap unreliable chod. Give the Koreans a few more years and perceptions will undoubtedly change.

 

What people are driving seems to be on the cusp of change too. A few years ago if you had trouble keeping your John Thomas in your strides you had an estate car, these days its either an MPV or a Crossover soft roader. The crossover seems to be shrinking in size to appeal to the driver who wants to look like he is going to be going off road, but really just needs a Micra sized car to pop to the shops. Probably why the Laguna is now an endangered species.

 

Where will we be in another 20 years? Well I'll be dead probably but I can see design becoming more unified as manufacturers share design and production costs. At the end of the day its manufacturers that dictate what we drive, they dictate what they make and what they sell and ultimately what choice we have. Unless we all build kit cars!

[gtd2000]

now produce products that you would aspire to own

 

I would disagree with you there. They do make well built reliable stuff (not including the Piccccanto crankshaft / pulley problems) but it depreciates as rapidly as it goes out of fashion. This years 'funky' Kia or Hyundai will be 2018's auction orphan worth about £800.

 

Japanese stuff isn't aspirational and they've been at it for decades. It's seen as Old Farts wheels with a touch of chav (OMG DRIFT).

 

 

I'm not so sure really.

 

Have you looked at the prices for a used KIA Picanto, they hold their price very well.

 

It's not like the days when you could pick up a KIA Pride/Mentor etc. for buttons after a few years.

 

Funnily enough brand perception varies siginificantly in other markets - Honda are a good example. They used to be thought of as old farts cars but elsewhere they were cars that younger people aspired to own. Same products, just different outlook.

 

There was a thread a few weeks back that mentioned the KIA and Hyundai cars making stronger money than the equivalent Ford or GM products at auction.

 

Japanese marques are very inspirational in many markets - particularly in the USA - Lexus (including to a lesser extent Infiniti and Acura) are taking over as the brand to be seen in. It's been that way for quite a few years.

 

I'm shocked at how much people pay for 10 year old Lexus models that would only cost a few grand in the UK but they know they are well built and very reliable.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

That's a very important point. The Koreans already have serious brand equity in a lot of places. The UK market is just a bit slower in reacting, just as it's always been (e.g. aversion to hatchbacks 30 years ago).

[gtd2000]

That's a very important point. The Koreans already have serious brand equity in a lot of places. The UK market is just a bit slower in reacting, just as it's always been (e.g. aversion to hatchbacks 30 years ago).

 

I'm happy for that brand aversion to continue as it allows me to pick up reliable products at a great price. Unfortunately I think we might be starting to see the end of the road...

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Give the Koreans a few more years and perceptions will undoubtedly change.

 

I'm not saying Kias are undesirable, far from it. But they are a distress purchase - 'shit, we need a new car, what is out there?'

In that respect, they could well be the end of Ford and GM and certainly the French rubbish. Old Fart image aside, I'd far rather spend 10k on a Hyundai than anything made in France.

 

Aspirational stuff is Audi, BMW and Mercedes. The Korean stuff doesn't have the heritage or the Kudos and whilst a 116d isn't very exciting, it has the halo effect of the £60k stuff beaming down on it. You'd never spend hours with a calculator working out how you can get your bum into the drivers seat of a Getz. They're just not that sort of car.

 

Lexus and Infinity do okay in the US , but the buyers are the ones who used to buy Cadillacs and Buicks. After 20 odd years they still don't have that 'thing' that tugs at the heart strings and it's that thing that ensures there will always be plenty of buyers for top end stuff.

[Cavcraft]

I suppose 'badge snobbery' is probably a reasonably big key to people buying 'superior' brands (Germand stuff for example) and this still makes me laugh. Having only ever been able to afford rubbish old cars a £200-£1,000 car is a £200-£1,000 car no matter what it says on the boot.

Anyone who lashes out thousands on a car just because it's a (insert maker) needs their bumps reading imho and they're probably exactly the kind of person you'd want to avoid at all costs.

[AnthonyG]

 

Aspirational stuff is Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

 

That's got to end someday when everybody has one, surely? Audis and BMWs seem to be reps cars now.

 

OK an R8 or an M3 will float a lot of boats but do people really aspire to own an mingebag spec A3? They must have horrifically unimaginative lives !

 

I just don't get Audis (I freely admit I'm practically alone on this) - apart from the Quattro they have no heritage, before the mid 1980s they were just Volkswagens with tweed seat trim and a bit more chrome. I guess now they are rather like Volvos were in the 70s/80s - the default choice of the middle classes.

[oman5]

I don't really go much on modern Audis/BMWs, they are now where Ford and vauxhall were in the '80s, i.e every rep's got one and I don't really notice them in traffic.

It has been accurately postulated that a Ford Mondeo is now more exclusive than a BMW 3 series.

People buying for the badge is a lot more common than many would admit, otherwise there is no way BMW would sell quite so many 1 series as they do. don't get me wrong, my bro's got a 120D and its a fantastic car- goes like shit off a shovel and still gets incredible MPG, it's just that the over riding impression is that they are asking 20k for what feels like a 14k car. Apart from the residual value when you sell it (because it has a BMW badge) you'd do no worse with a Focus or mondeo TDCi.

I had a 1989 320i years ago when it was still seen as something of a desireable car, and I thought it was a piece of crap. no problem selling it though- because it had THAT badge. Honestly, if you put a BMW badge on a fresh barker's egg people would buy it.

[Guest]

 

Aspirational stuff is Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

 

 

OK an R8 or an M3 will float a lot of boats but do people really aspire to own an mingebag spec A3? They must have horrifically unimaginative lives !

 

I just don't get Audis (I freely admit I'm practically alone on this) - apart from the Quattro they have no heritage, before the mid 1980s they were just Volkswagens with tweed seat trim and a bit more chrome. I guess now they are rather like Volvos were in the 70s/80s - the default choice of the middle classes.

 

Yes.

 

When I worked at Vertex half the staff creamed themselves because someone in accounts bought a [then] 3 year old A3 1.6 on tick. On the same day, the MD brought his 'little project' in - which turned out to be a fully restored Lancia Aurelia B20. Everyone else crowded round the gussied up Golf. I went and got about 30 photos of Gobbato's masterpiece instead.

 

Most of my coursemates aspire to Audi \ VW ownership. The fact that they're chronically half arsed cars with some cripplingly stupid design faults matters not to them - thank the mindfuck marketing for that.

 

Honestly, when I went to Uni last year in MOTHA_WATANABE'S A1, it was as if I'd rocked up in a gold plate Enzo whilst hanging out of Megan Fox.

 

I've driven so many Golfs \ Audis now I keep expecting to discover this mystical X factor that makes everyone else go moist at the gusset. As yet, it hasn't happened. I remembered the last time this occurred - it was when I used OS X for the first time. Apple truly are the VW of computing - painfully, woefully, paint dryingly average kit, brilliantly and persuasively marketed.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

do people really aspire to own an mingebag spec A3? They must have horrifically unimaginative lives !

 

 

Nail/hammer. It's the world we now live in.

[ashmicro]

As long as the sheeple keep buying Audis, it means people like us can pick up some nice stuff a few years down the line. I ran this for a while:

 

 

 

5 years old, just under 50k miles, just inside 5 figures money wise. Buy the time it's about 9 or 10 years old it'll be worth very little, but I bet it'll still be hanging together well.

 

I'd recommend the 2 litre diesel - the car in the pics was a thirsty bastard!

[fiatdaft]

Hardly a sign of todays world though is it? People aspired to own marina's back in the day so much so that there was a waiting list !

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

But is it actually 'nice stuff'? I don't think I've driven any recent Audis, but I like the Cee'd more than the Golf and, in terms of BMWs, I think the 1-series is a hateful little car.

 

The waiting list for Marinas was probably due to all the strikes.

[ashmicro]

Aye, the A6 was a nice machine, a means to an end at the time (I was travelling to and from Dublin several times a week, 226 miles round trip). Sods law, I'd just sold my diseasel X Type when the gig came up, and I couldn't find another one that wasn't too dear or hadn't belonged to NASA.

 

I'm with you on the 1 Series, horrid. I read in CAR about a year ago that the new FWD Bini platform will spawn a range of small FWD Beemers too. THE HORROR!

 

Someone on the thread said about "distress purchases" - how right! A few years ago we suddenly needed another car, and there was only one thing to do. Quick 2 mile trip to the Hyundai dealer, boggo Getz purchased, job jobbed. Delivery time:1 day. They have a warehouse up near Larne, and the car was delivered to the door. That sort of service at that end of the market is the way to make quick bucks. Low profit and high turnover is what the dealer chap told me.

[gtd2000]

I have to admit I'd like an Audi A5 Coupe - very nice looking cars indeed.

 

 

Have to be the diesel version as well.

 

A German colleague of mine had one and it was very pleasant.

 

Cost him a frigging fortune to buy new though!

 

When the latest Golf came out, one of the guys at work had one on lease and I thought it was a very cheaply built product.

 

I'd still rather have a Nissan GTR over a Porche/Ferrari or anything else at the end of the day to be honest: