Anyone know parking/clamping technicalities?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Long story short: the gates to the apartment complex where I live have been open for over 2 weeks. The internal locks are shit (e.g. if the householder has forgotten to lock their door, a burglar would only need to open the door by pulling the handle!), and the management company haven't done anything about it or even bothered to reply when my landlord contacted them with my concerns. I thought that the best way to get noticed by them would be by parking my car in a space that they would like to sell and allocate. My understanding of the law is that you can only be held liable for parking in a private place where there is a physical impediment to entry (which in this case obviously isn't true- at least for now!), and then only for actual losses suffered by the landowner. Is that right?

 

Does anyone have any idea about any of the above? Preferably not one saying "go to pepipoo and ask"

[Lankytim]

Are there any signs up saying you'll get clamped and fined if you park there? If so you'l get clamped and fined. Not a problem if you can remove the clamp yourself though.

 

If there isnt any signs up then you should be OK, as they shouldn't clamp or even ticket a car unless they have lots of signs up telling people.

[lancashireclamper]

As mentioned above warning signs must be clearly visible from all parking bays before a vehicle can be ticketed or clamped,

A private company can only issue a Civil Parking Notice (as opposed to a penalty charge notice which IS enforceable) alleging a breach of contract with the landowner, receiving a CPN and not paying it would lead to the issuing company having to take you to court which in all likelyhood they would not do, you'd get no end of threatening letters from supposed debt collectors but thats probably all, assuming, that is, that the company issuing the notice gets your details from the DVLA in the first place in order to contact you, in theory they have to have 'just cause' to ask for them.

As for Clamping (shudders at the memory of actually doing it) Warning signs must be properly displayed, the sign must be legible, contain the name of the Clamping company and a contact phone no (mobile or landline) and the fees incurred for releasing the vehicle, Anyone immobilising vehicles and taking payment for releasing them must hold a current, valid SIA licence so to do, (Not a CCTV or Doorman's licence) which should be displayed clearly, and, if payment is made, should issue a reciept noting their name, licence number and location of vehicle, failure to provide any of these would give you a pretty good chance of appealing the charge and receiving a full refund of monies paid either from the clamping company itself or through arbitration by the BPA (British parking association) obviously clamping without a valid licence is a serious offence and carries a prison sentence of upto 5 years if memory serves correctly.

If no warning signs are present it might be worth taking a few pictures of your car parked where it is showing nothing was in place to stop you parking there when you did, its not unknown for unscrupulous firms to carry signs, hammer and nails with them and put them up before clamoing and photographing your car parked underneath one, also, have a quick look at http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Cheers for that, guys. Most helpful. From what I see above (and assuming the signs etc are present and correct- they do have some, although the shape of the carpark is a bit funny and I don't think they're visible from every bay), I reckon that the answer basically is "notices aren't really enforceable, but it's not easy to avoid paying when you've been clamped" (well, unless you hack away at the clamp).

[Ian Mac]

If you 'hack away' the clamp you could be charged with criminal damage although it is perfectly ok to remove the clamp without causing damage. One possible method is to deflate the tyre which may loosen the clamp and allow you to drive out of it. Another more extreme option is to dismantle the hub at the roadside. If your car is front wheel drive though this may involve removal of the complete driveshaft as you'll be unable to access the hub nut.

 

As a resident director of a managed estate however I do appreciate the problem caused by incorrect parking. In short, If you're a tenant it's the responsibility of your landlord to resolve any issues - there is no point in going into battle with the management company as their contract is with the owner of your property rather than you as the tenant. Your estate should have resident directors though so it wouldn't hurt to track them down and discuss your concerns. Basically, a resident director is simply a property owner who lives on the estate and has volunteered to become a director (unpaid) to help make sure the management company fulfil their obligations. if you have no resident director then personally I'd be inclined to move as it basically means no one gives a damn about how the estate is run and the property owners are only interested in their monthly rental income. PM me if you need further advice.

 

Ian

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Yeah, I am aware of the contractual position. Even if I have an excellent relationship with my landlord, we only communicate in writing (e-mails and texts) and any 'threats' will have to be made to him (he's on the ball with the legal stuff and will understand anyway). I don't think we have any resident directors, and moving is precisely my plan...I'm just here till I find a job, at which point I will move to a more suburban environment where I can finally keep, and tinker with, some chod. The job-finding part, however, is taking longer than expected.

[Ian Mac]

Oh well, good luck with it. We have two resident directors, me and one other. I shudder to think how the place would be run otherwise...

[Wilko220]

Hammer a smaller clamp over it...?

 

Sorry

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

sounds like a plan!

[dieselnutjob]

always wondered, if you put a notice on each wheelsaying "Any clamp attached to this wheel will be forcibly removed. Attachment of a clamp to this wheel will be interpreted as proof that you give permission for any clamp being damaged, removed and disposed of" or somesuch, would it carry any less weight legally than the "contract" you enter into when parking near their warning sign? If they give you permission then it's not criminal damage.

[dieselnutjob]

also, I bet that they have a "code of conduct" or something which says somewhere in there that they can't damage your car to clamp it, In fact wouldn't that be criminal damage.

 

Therefore what would be the effect of some intricately made balsa wood wheel trims that stick out about a foot from the side of each wheel?

[lancashireclamper]

Whilst it is an offence to damage a clamp in order to remove it should an unknown party take a hacksaw to the padlock (assuming its a London triangle type clamp not a Hansen) and return the clamp, complete with a replacement padlock, and all keys identiacal to the lock you hacked off then the clamp owner is back in the position he/she was in before you (or whoever) cut it off and unlikely to succeed in any legal proceedings against you, log onto youtube and put in Anglegrinderman; or anything related to clamping come to think of it and read the comments.

Lets be honest, no one is on the side of the clamper, not sure if anyone has ever tried putting notes regarding the removal clamps on each wheel or not, presumably if the clamper removed such notices before clamping and photographing your vehicle he or she could dispute they were there when the clamp was put on and thus consented to nothing, would certainly be an interesting case if it ever went to court, as for damage caused by clamping, most signs have the usual disclaimer about operatives not being responsible for any damage caused as a result of the clamping, nearly every clamp I ever put on scratched an alloy or dented a wing, according to the vehicles owner (which I never caused) suppose the official view is that if the car hadn't been parked there no damage real or imaginary would have occured, probably boils down to 'reasonable care' or whatever the current term is.

Clamping by anyone other than the DVLA should be a thing of the past by November 2012 anyway,assuming this Freedom of Information bill ever gets onto the statute book that is.

[maxpower]

^^^^^^^ that's what i did after being told by plod that it wasn't illegal as long as i replaced the padlock with a working one which i did.... much to a pissed off clamper's surprise

[Lankytim]

No need to give the clampers their clamp back, just hand it in at the local police station as lost property. By the time the clampers get their arse into gearand try to get it back the rozzers will have disposed of it anyway.

[DSdriver]

Why not just park a car that can't be clamped? Those that immediately spring to mind and are readily available for small change are the Citroens Bx and Cx, or for more style a DS or GS. All of which if parked with their suspension down will not leave enough room for the clamp to be fitted.

[dieselnutjob]

It would appear that if there is something wrong with your car you can legally work on the car, and, if as a consequence the clamp happens to fall off, then you have not committed any offense provided that you don't damage the clamp. If you then give your name and address to the clamping company so that they can pursue you in the courts for the "parking fine" then the non-payment of the fine becomes a civil matter and the police will not get involved.

 

If the clamping company can't be bothered to sue or the judge goes against them then that's the end of it

 

Examples here:-

and

[lancashireclamper]

Why not just park a car that can't be clamped? Those that immediately spring to mind and are readily available for small change are the Citroens Bx and Cx, or for more style a DS or GS. All of which if parked with their suspension down will not leave enough room for the clamp to be fitted.

 

Depends on the type of clamp being used, the Lobdon Triangle clamp doesn't go on the wheel, a chain attached at one end to the clamp is passed through the track rod end or wishbone and back through a hole in the other side of the clamp and locked there with a padlock, even with a hydropneumatic suspension lowered to its full extent there would still be enough clearance to feed the chain through.

(I'm guessing there would be anyway, never had to clamp a classic Citroen)

[Craig the Princess]

The Irish have a novel way of dealing with it