Renault to axe Laguna, Espace, Modus and... Wind!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

no doubt they will push the brand hard - over a fucking cliff.

[RENOMAD]

I genuinely would like to know what other European countries think of Renault, and the reason I ask is that,,,recently I was at a presentation for the Renault ZE range.

The girl giving the opening speech made reference to the fact that Renaults Reputation wasn't as good in Ireland as in other European countries. I wonder does this speech start the same way in each country,except with the country name changed!!!!

[RENOMAD]

no doubt they will push the brand hard - over a fucking cliff.

 

Now thats a bit harsh---------

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I genuinely would like to know what other European countries think of Renault, and the reason I ask is that,,,recently I was at a presentation for the Renault ZE range.

 

In Germany - very poor. They had a bit of go with the 2002 on Meganes, but the Krauts are even less tolerant than us when it comes to Christmas Cracker Frog chod.

 

They hate the French anyway.

[Felly Magic]

I wonder if Bluejeans has actually seen one of the new generation Dacias up close? Someone round here owns both a Sandero & Logan, and they don't look too bad to be honest, a sort of Lidl of the car world. (And deffo future Autoshite) When you look, we don't really have an uber cheap small family car on the market nowadays, and there is a gap in the market for those who want something a bit bigger than the little Datsun, and want brand new, but don't have the readies. I suspect Dacias will sell well to the 'giffer market', just like Skoda & Lada did in the mid 80s.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I wonder if Bluejeans has actually seen one of the new generation Dacias up close?

 

Nope. But I can tell you it will be average, will depreciate like a bastard and in a scrapyard within 8 years.

The market doesn't need another cheap and average car brand. There are quite enough as it is.

 

 

Dacia's 'no haggling on this cheap reheated shit' strategy is identical to that used by Daewoo.

[Mr Lobster]

i had a look at a couple of Dacias over the summer and was quite pleased. If you're coming at them expecting some sort of BMW rival then you'll not be that impressed but they seem decent, sensible enough budget transport.

 

In theory they should sell well - they certainly have in Europe. But I'm not sure they will. An awful lot of UK private buyers want some sort of aspirational pseudo posh car to impress the neighbours and will put style over substance. So whilst there should be a good market for a relatively basic, affordable car i suspect that far too many people would rather finance themselves up to the eyeballs to get a basic 1 series / Golf etc rather than something more practical and affordable.

 

The no discount thing will be interesting - on one hand they look like they'll be well priced so should be pretty cheap against the competition anyway but then the last company to try that here was Daewoo and it really didn't end well.

[Mr Lobster]

in a scrapyard within 8 years.

 

That (sadly) is relatively common across a ot of manufacturers - not just Renault / Dacia. The throwaway society we have deems cars 'old' at that age and Joe Public thinks that as soon as a major bill comes along its just not worth spending on.

[M'coli]

I wonder if Bluejeans has actually seen one of the new generation Dacias up close?

 

Nope. But I can tell you it will be average, will depreciate like a bastard and in a scrapyard within 8 years.

The market doesn't need another cheap and average car brand. There are quite enough as it is.

Get in! Autoshite on fast-forward.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

in a scrapyard within 8 years.

 

That (sadly) is relatively common across a ot of manufacturers - not just Renault / Dacia. The throwaway society we have deems cars 'old' at that age and Joe Public thinks that as soon as a major bill comes along its just not worth spending on.

 

Very true. But you won't find many 8 year old Golfs or Yarissssis in scrapyards. Good cars which are a known quantity hold on to enough of their value to plug on for 10-12 years.

Someone mentioned old giffers buying cheap Skodas and so on years ago -but in those days, Ford and Vauxhall had the market by the balls. Times have changed and whilst Hyundai and Kia are thought to be reheated Jap stuff (and thus hopefully reliable), the thought of an even cheaper quality Renault (zut alors!) will keep the punters away. The whole Dacia thing just smacks of desperation tbh.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I wonder if Bluejeans has actually seen one of the new generation Dacias up close?

 

Nope. But I can tell you it will be average, will depreciate like a bastard and in a scrapyard within 8 years.

The market doesn't need another cheap and average car brand. There are quite enough as it is.

Get in! Autoshite on fast-forward.

[Felly Magic]

We actually do need brands like Dacia in the motoring world, because we simply do not have cheap superminis anymore. Even the basic Skoda Fabia is nudging £10k. The Logan & Sandero are bigger than rivals from Kia/High&dry and Perodua & Daevrolet. If they are going to start at around £7k, they will sell, especially if they advertise them well.

[RENOMAD]

We actually do need brands like Dacia in the motoring world, because we simply do not have cheap superminis anymore. Even the basic Skoda Fabia is nudging £10k. The Logan & Sandero are bigger than rivals from Kia/High&dry and Perodua & Daevrolet. If they are going to start at around £7k, they will sell, especially if they advertise them well.

 

 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

We actually do need brands like Dacia in the motoring world, because we simply do not have cheap superminis anymore.

 

Apart from the Nissan Pixo, 1.2 Fiat Panda, Citroen C1 and Kia Picanto, that is. All available for £6500 - £8000 if you go online and shop around. That's why this no discount shit will not work. The public loves to haggle no matter how cheap something is.

[RENOMAD]

We actually do need brands like Dacia in the motoring world, because we simply do not have cheap superminis anymore.

 

Apart from the Nissan Pixo, 1.2 Fiat Panda, Citroen C1 and Kia Picanto, that is. All available for £6500 - £8000 if you go online and shop around. That's why this no discount shit will not work. The public loves to haggle no matter how cheap something is.

 

Agreed but,,,,,,the Sandero is actually a much bigger car. It is bigger than the Clio even and thats where Renault could have a problem. With the deals that,,,,,oh I'm going to stop as I just thought of something..If Renault are going to make the Clio bigger and more "upmarket", the the Sandero will replace it very nicely and more cheaply.....

 

Looks like they are doing a VW/Skoda thingy--------If you cannot afford a MK1 Golf sized Polo,,here is a Fabia sir...Its really a Polo underneath JUST dont expect Polo residuals.

 

Residuals-----I'm going soft in my old age

[dollywobbler]

Yeah, the Dacia Sandero does sound a better bet than the tiny city cars of similar new value.

 

I remember when the cheapest cars were not necessarily the smallest. The Fiat 126 was always pretty bloody cheap, but the 2CV is actually quite big with full seating for four. The Lada Riva and Skoda Estelle also offered lots of space per pound. I prefer a big car with none of the trimmings please.

[ashmicro]

Skodas are piss. Aside from the randomly-combusting-PSNI cars, my sister's in laws barely got 6 years and 60k miles out of their 1.2 Fabia. It was due MOT, and their mech said it wasn't worth fixing. Ironically, they ended up getting my sisters Scenic-Fatarse (which I replaced the engine in) gratis, as it was worth squat even as a trade in against the Mazda 5. They got more discount for no trade in.

[RENOMAD]

http://www.dacia-sandero.org/

http://www.daciaduster.org/

 

 

I am convinced there is a market for these cars

[Felly Magic]

Bang on the nail Dolly. Something the 'Rev' is failing to grasp, plus I think the smallest engine in the Sandero is a 1.4 16v Clio lump! Methinks there could be some badge snobbery at foot here.

 

When you look at cars like the Skoda Felicia, it was bigger than a Fiesta, but smaller than the then current Escort, and actually sold pretty bloody well. There is no current equivalent for sale on the UK market at all, and the Panda is a citycar, not a a Supermini (Fiat's is the Punto). Skoda's car in the Sandero price range is the new Citygo, which will have both VW & Seat versions, and will only have a 1.0 engine. All the equivalent cars size wise start at around £9,500, and most have 1.2 litre 3 pots.

 

My dad wanted a car that sized last year, but didn't want any whizzbangs, as he quite rightly sees it as another item to go wrong. He ended up buying an ex Jersey hire car Fiesta, which although isnt a bad car, the 1.25 engine is a bit thrashy, and the heated screen is bloody annoying in direct sunlight. You can see the ultra fine element. The Sandero is the sort of car my dad would have bought to be honest.

 

That's the first I've heard about shit 1.2 Fabias by the way. What the hell had they done to it? I know of several Fabias now (mk1s) that are well into 6 figure miles and still going. 5 minutes with a VAG.com reader often pinpoints faults, and they aren't as expensive to fix.

[R9UKE]

Aggggh trust me to be 6 pages late for a discussion that I have SOOO much to say about.

 

 

Matter of time before some of us start to get frisky about a Laguna coupe for pocket money though (R9UKE, I'm looking at you), and I'm surprised about the Espace getting canned.

 

 

The only V6 Petrol left in Renault's range. 3.5 V6 Monaco with red leather please. I'm waiting patiently, though as you say, it's likely to be some time next year that they're worth F all!

 

Right... first of all - I knew something was up when the luxury "Initiale" versions were disappearing a few years ago.

 

The Laguna III needed completely rebranded. The Vectra to Insignia thing. The Laguna II had completely ruined the solid reputation of the first Laguna, and there was no recovering from that. The awkward looks didn't help matters either, that car didn't stand a chance.

 

The Modus. To be fair, it's had it's time. That arrived in 04 and has done relatively well, thanks to Britain's population of OAPs.

 

The Wind. A Twingo cabriolet. I'm surprised that didn't take off!

 

The Espace. How can they kill this!? The Espace INVENTED the MPV back in 1984... how can you kill off such a legendary name? The current shape is really old in the tooth, it was introduced back in 03, so how can they still expect it to maintain good sales figures? This one has me MOST angered.

 

So I'm an idiot for buying a Koleos--------I bought it BECAUSE it wasn't built in France , but built in Korea.

 

No sir, you're not an idiot, you're an Autoshiter, and I respect you massively for it.... the Koleos is beautifully crap in almost every way.

 

So what are we left with?

 

The Mégane. It's gone from being the car that cemented my love for the brand back in 02 to one of the blandest, miserable cars on the market - especially the 5 door. It's comparable to the 2004 Toyota Corolla it's THAT dull.

 

The Scénic. Same bland design, seems to be selling less to families and more to arthritis suffering OAPs.

 

Clio. Hmmm, if they've killed the Espace, how much longer will this last?

 

And to replace the legends lost (or destroyed), we have stuff like this.

 

 

Yay!

 

They were always quick to pioneer luxury features into more affordable cars. Remember back in 1992 when Renault Clios had REMOTE central locking? And the mad voice synthesizers that were binned forever in 2004. Tyre pressure sensors in 2001.

 

Laguna II was the first ever EuroNCAP 5 star rating. Espace inventing the MPV. Scénic inventing the new smaller MPV class in 96. Then who could forget their moments of sheer madness?

 

 

 

Long gone I'm afraid. This is what I respected them for. They've absolutely lost it

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Good reply Sir.

 

The Renaulghs I remember fondly are the original 5, the 18 and the 20 - had to be the comfiest cars around - certainly the best seats.

Carlos Ghosn perhaps isn't that smart after all?

[fiatdaft]

Renault might have brought the espace to the market but invent the mpv,nah.Renault inherited the design from matrawhen peugeot didn't want it.Fiat mulitpla,vw micro bus, etc,there were also many concepts before like the mega gamma.Renaults sales figures would have been worse over the last few years if they weren't so cheap to buy with the finance deals that they offer.

[R9UKE]

Good reply Sir.

 

The Renaulghs I remember fondly are the original 5, the 18 and the 20 - had to be the comfiest cars around - certainly the best seats.

Carlos Ghosn perhaps isn't that smart after all?

 

Haven't yet had the pleasure of sitting in an 18 or 20. But these in the 25 were pretty damn fine -

 

 

Renault might have brought the espace to the market but invent the mpv,nah

 

OK then. They were first to market the MPV as we know it today and pave the way for a new class of vehicle.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

 

 

Lush.

 

Avon, Villa and Servelan to the front desk please!

[fiatdaft]

Apart from the dodge caravan and the plymouth voyager?

[chaseracer]

I'll just park this here...

 

 

[R9UKE]

...which arrived about 3 months earlier, and only in the USA. But just for you -

 

The Espace was the first in Europe to successfully market and shape the Multi Purpose Vehicle into what it is today.

 

Wish I had never mentioned it!

[fiatdaft]

...which arrived about 3 months earlier, and only in the USA.

 

Errrr.

[ruffgeezer]

The real trouble for Renault is that the lion's share of their cars that are on the road today will be those that are 2001 onwards, I rarely the older models now, there are a few out there, but they are far outweighed by the new crocks of shit.

 

The fit and finish is right up there with anything sold by pound land and all the electrical bullcrap they weigh them down with serves as nothing more than a collection of miniature gizmology time bombs all waiting to disappoint in some expensive way, like the time when, as a kid, you wanted to prove how waterproof your casio watch was, only to find when retrieved it was deader than a blind rabbit wandering the fast lane of the m11 on a friday night.

 

You can market them, discount them, fuck it paint them any colour you want, but the thing is about covering a steamy turd in glitter is, once you fall for it, once you get past the shiny outer layer, it is shit all the way through.

 

You carry on with that, you get the bad rep, see what happens, remember Lancia?

[messerschmitt owner]

...which arrived about 3 months earlier, and only in the USA. But just for you -

 

The Espace was the first in Europe to successfully market and shape the Multi Purpose Vehicle into what it is today.

 

Wish I had never mentioned it!

bollox!

 

The Fiat Multipla beat it by two decades!

 

Here's an MPV before they'd been 'invented' by Renault!

 

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C216576

 

note the three rows of seats, seats that fold flat, the big windows ...

 

Even comes in hearse mode

 

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C268919#