Funny how times change.

[carlo]

Meanwhile, Fiat have rebadged the abortion that is the Lancia Delta as a Chrysler Delta - on sale in the UK now. You might see one in the next 6 months.

Someone round here has a white Delta - I've seen it several times now. It's actually not a bad looking car by modern standards, but the stupid chrome grille looks completely out of place and horribly tacky.

 

Just read this on Wikipedia about the new Lancia/Chrysler Delta:

 

"The new Delta offers a number of options and equipment including a Bose Hi-Fi radio incorporating a CD player and MP3 file reader with steering-wheel mounted controls, the Blue&Me system developed with Microsoft, and brand new satellite navigation system developed with Magneti Marelli.

 

Further technical equipment included to effect the ride and handling will include an advanced ESC (Electronic Stability Control) system and SDC suspension (with electronic damping control, also by Magneti Marelli).

 

The new Delta also has a driving assistant that gives more safety, an electric eye monitors the road and gives feedback to steering wheel to suggest corrections to the driver. The car is available also with semi-automatic parking assistant."

 

Makes you want to weep and give up doesn't it.

[tonedepear]

The new Delta also has a driving assistant that gives more safety, an electric eye monitors the road and gives feedback to steering wheel to suggest corrections to the driver.

 

WT actual F?

[boobydoo]

Also now available from all good stockists:

 

Chrysler Ypsilon! With similar grille.....and for an extra £600 , that style icon from the eighties is back! Two-tone paint!

 

[CIH]

I think the problem is your modern car buyer doesn't give a toss about cars as such anymore. I see so many cars with basic design flaws ie; Mercs that can't stop themselves going left, BMWs destroying the extreme inside edge of their rear tyres. The basic function of a car is almost being overlooked infavour of bluetooth and all that jazz.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I think the problem is your modern car buyer doesn't give a toss about cars as such anymore. I see so many cars with basic design flaws ie; Mercs that can't stop themselves going left, BMWs destroying the extreme inside edge of their rear tyres. The basic function of a car is almost being overlooked infavour of bluetooth and all that jazz.

 

It could just be that the public has fallen out of love with the car as a thing to actually enjoy driving. Remember back when your Dad/Grandad etc would go out for a drive in the Viva/1100 etc just for the pleasure of driving? Who the hell does that now? Now it seems to be a means to an end, filled with as much wanky styling, soft feel plastics and pointless gadgets to distract you from the tedium of driving the turd.

 

Modern cars are certainly too much of what we're told we need. Who honestly thought an electronic handbrake was a good idea? How much does it cost to make compared to a metal/plastic lever?

[Negative Creep]

The government and local authorities have systematically tried to make driving as miserable as possible with endless speed cameras, bus and cycle lanes, mini roundabouts, pointless speed limits and so on.

 

Another factor is that you are so isolated from the driving experience and that cars need no thought or sympathy to drive. If you have to go to a garage to get a bulb changed is it any wonder people lose interest?

[Lord Sterling]

I just hate the way everything is marketed as a lifestyle option these days. That's why I like the old car brochures, which actually talk about things like specification and show photos of the cars. Now you aren't even allowed to mention top speed or performance and it will be full of people attending fashion shows and going windsurfing with their ultra hip friends (one of whom will be black obviously, we're not racists). Everyone seems to be falling over themselves to sell their soul to the WAG and Ocean Finance market - BMW, Mercedes, Bentley Aston Martin - now even Maserati are going to release an SUV.

 

Very few interesting cars these days as no one will take the risk on anything sporty or petrol. Not to mention something that isn't black, grey Recession White or Resale Silver

 

You've absolutely hit the nail on the head there.

 

Car makers used to market thier cars to do exactly what they were built for generally being a simple but functional vehicle.

 

Now people today are so obsessed with image and appearence and how 'new' something is that nothing else really matters that much so now marketing has gone all arty afrty. I was once told during my Video Production Course that these shitty arty car adverts that make absolutely no sense at all are not made to sell cars, they are made to make those who have already purchased thier cars (Probably on the never never or whatever) feel better about what they have bought.

 

Most car manufactureres, have realised that a market has been carved now, lifestyle, badge snobbery, SUV (I hate this word) and tiny city car type things are the order of the day. Those that once made supercars and exclusive exotica have realised that they too can make a quick buck by producing what everyone else is producing, then stick a big price tag on because thier name is linked with exclusivity. Look at Porsche, Aston Martin et al.

 

Also another thing, car makers are playing a dangerous game in producing cars that basically drive for you. Look at that new Volvo 4x4 thingy that stops for you. More and more the actual function of driving is being taken out of the hands of the actual human driver with all these electonic road-monitoring eyes and whatever have you. That and interiors getting more comfortable and cosseted and generally being rammed full attention grabbing gadgets will inevitably create more dangerous drivers, who in turn wont have a clue what to do when put behind the wheel of a Mk1 Fiesta or something just as simple.

[barefoot]

I think a restored Mexico would be a hoot to drive by any standards, a tuned example would be like driving a Caterham MPV.

 

I have sadly only driven two rwd Escorts, the 1100 my driving instructor had & a 2000cc Pinto thing with a roll cage on mud & gravel on

one of those driving experience days. It was more than a hoot, it was one of the finest driving experiences I have ever had (inc 400bhp Sierra Cosworth thing)

It just did exactly what I wanted, it was spectacularly progressive in its slidiness.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

It's not so much a question of engineering ("how everything works") as opposed to marketing and outsourcing. Carmakers nowadays are so obsessed with selling a lifestyle that they have stopped doing a lot (most?) of the engineering. The main electrics are all engineered by the likes of Bosch, while consolidation, joint ventures, and licensing mean that an engine can go into dozens of different models across different, even rival, makes. Then you have a couple of components that need know-how which has to be licensed from a tiny number of specialist vendors (e.g. direct-shit gearboxes), and a handful of software manufacturers copying each other on interfaeces, and, in the end, car factories only produce painted bodies and stick the various outsourced parts (that they share with all other cars) on them.

 

And the sad thing is, the ignorant customer doesn't give a shit - monthly payments, impressing the neighbours and gadgets are the key points of importance. That's why Fiat are going to build a Yank engined Maserati as well as a Chrysler US built Maser SUV - because they can get away with it. They'll destroy the brand, but there is a rich seam of idiots with too much money to tap into.

 

Profit is more reasonable than justice apparently.

 

But, in the long run, this is not even profitable! People who need to buy a car will either go for used or stick to the (funnily enough also 'niche') manufacturers who do less of this lifestyle shit and prefer to compete on cost and/or quality (Hyundai/KIA are particularly good at that). I haven't looked at the numbers, but the feeling I am getting is that the small family car, which used to be the mainstay of a range, is becoming marginalised. In turn, this means both fewer sales and less money for engineering/development (it's one thing designing a suspension system for a 405 which will sell in the millions and quite another for a built-to-order 5008 whose buyers will probably be in the tens of thousands) and just gets carmakers into a vicious circle which could morph into a death spiral for companies aiming at the middle of the market such as Ford, PSA and Renault-Nissan. The ascendance of China (and, to a lesser extent, India), where basic motors are still needed in huge numbers, has softened the blow somewhat, but that's only until the local carmakers become good enough to take on the imports (all you need after that is the CCP government to impose some tax/tariff/quota on imports/foreign content/company ownership/whatever).

 

It's just short-termism pandering to the destructive myopia of the financial markets...Funnily enough, the company that seems to be best-prepared to survive this mess is BMW AG, which remains pretty much a family business.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

It's not so much a question of engineering ("how everything works") as opposed to marketing and outsourcing. Carmakers nowadays are so obsessed with selling a lifestyle that they have stopped doing a lot (most?) of the engineering. The main electrics are all engineered by the likes of Bosch, while consolidation, joint ventures, and licensing mean that an engine can go into dozens of different models across different, even rival, makes. Then you have a couple of components that need know-how which has to be licensed from a tiny number of specialist vendors (e.g. direct-shit gearboxes), and a handful of software manufacturers copying each other on interfaeces, and, in the end, car factories only produce painted bodies and stick the various outsourced parts (that they share with all other cars) on them.

 

And the sad thing is, the ignorant customer doesn't give a shit - monthly payments, impressing the neighbours and gadgets are the key points of importance. That's why Fiat are going to build a Yank engined Maserati as well as a Chrysler US built Maser SUV - because they can get away with it. They'll destroy the brand, but there is a rich seam of idiots with too much money to tap into.

 

Profit is more reasonable than justice apparently.

 

But, in the long run, this is not even profitable! People who need to buy a car will either go for used or stick to the (funnily enough also 'niche') manufacturers who do less of this lifestyle shit and prefer to compete on cost and/or quality (Hyundai/KIA are particularly good at that). I haven't looked at the numbers, but the feeling I am getting is that the small family car, which used to be the mainstay of a range, is becoming marginalised. In turn, this means both fewer sales and less money for engineering/development (it's one thing designing a suspension system for a 405 which will sell in the millions and quite another for a built-to-order 5008 whose buyers will probably be in the tens of thousands) and just gets carmakers into a vicious circle which could morph into a death spiral for companies aiming at the middle of the market such as Ford, PSA and Renault-Nissan. The ascendance of China (and, to a lesser extent, India), where basic motors are still needed in huge numbers, has softened the blow somewhat, but that's only until the local carmakers become good enough to take on the imports (all you need after that is the CCP government to impose some tax/tariff/quota on imports/foreign content/company ownership/whatever).

 

It's just short-termism pandering to the destructive myopia of the financial markets...Funnily enough, the company that seems to be best-prepared to survive this mess is BMW AG, which remains pretty much a family business.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[chaseracer]

/\/\

 

As a wise man said - or was it me? - the world is FUBAR. The emperor has no clothes...

[RoadworkUK]

All of the above is true, and it was this that encouraged me to drop out of the full-time sales role.

 

When I started out, at BMW in 2005, I was a recent graduate with a head full of ideas and aspirations, and something of an interest in the Bavarian marque. When I started I recieved my first company car, a 116i Sport. This was just after the UK launch, on a 54 plate, before the roads were full of them. And it felt special. It had myriad design flaws and wasn't a terribly good car per se, but it felt special.

 

To be honest, I enjoyed all my BMs, the E46 cabs, Z4s etc, even though the Banglism was in full flow. I quit sales the first time around after exactly two years, immediately after Glastonbury 2007.

 

I started at MB in January 2008, after running out of money having frittered it away on having fun. I walked into MB and, after a brief chat was offered a job there and then. I collected my CLK company car the next week. But there was no magic. Every single car I dealt with from that point onwards was a commodity, not an object of desire. Occasionally something interesting comes in as p/x, put precious little of it was built in the last three years, regardless of the badge attached to the nose.

 

With every new car launch I feel less and less to relate to. I have no connection, no empathy with them. I feel like I'm selling an image, not a machine, and I'm about the least image conscious person I know. I used to find it easy to sell a car based on driving enjoyment alone. Today, you try to discuss steering feel with a customer and they shrug their shoulders.

 

I even get the feeling that a lot of todays motoring journalists don't tell the whole truth. Many a time they pour praise over the flavour of the month and leave me wondering what the fuss is about when I get to drive it. I'd love to know what Setright would say about half the "must buy" machinery on the roads today.

 

Hardly anything interests me enough to make me want to be a salesman again.

[Pete-M]

Hardly anything interests me enough to make me want to be a salesman again.

 

I used to sell VW / Audi stuff in the mid '90s. It was all dull as ditchwater with the exception of the Audi S8. I then went to work for Alfa Romeo, and other than the 164 that stuff was all boring too. Eventually I ended up working selling Nissans in Wigan. I've not worked for a main agent since. Nissan removed any interest in selling new cars that may have been lingering.

 

Flogging new cars isn't fun. There's a lot of pressure to sell things that at the end of the day are only cars. Even if you were flogging Ferraris the magic wears off after a few days trying to find new customers and having to deal with people who insist on ordering their nice shiny new car in exactly the wrong spec. "I'd like a 458 please... with grey leather".

 

As for the current MB range, I often drive a current S350 CDi and it's a mightily impressive thing, with bloody good ride quality - way better than pretty much anything similar I've driven. It's also nippy enough, quiet enough, huge inside, good on fuel and easy to drive. I'd have one. The A-B-C classes are nowhere near as nice. E classes are nice in the right spec. Vitos are shite.

[RoadworkUK]

 

As for the current MB range, I often drive a current S350 CDi and it's a mightily impressive thing, with bloody good ride quality - way better than pretty much anything similar I've driven. It's also nippy enough, quiet enough, huge inside, good on fuel and easy to drive. I'd have one. The A-B-C classes are nowhere near as nice. E classes are nice in the right spec. Vitos are shite.

 

Totally agree, and that they're nice is useful when you're charged with selling them. It always helps if you have faith in the product. It's just a shame that whether they're any good or not is totally lost on the customers who have made their buying decision before they even reach the showroom, based on badge alone. I'm a spoilt bastard really, I can't really think of a brand easier to sell, apart from Land Rover (their sales guys will shift A LOT of Evoques) and Mini. But I only feel one step removed from working at tescos.

[pompei]

What kind of car was it, STB?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

All of the above is true, and it was this that encouraged me to drop out of the full-time sales role.

 

When I started out, at BMW in 2005, I was a recent graduate with a head full of ideas and aspirations, and something of an interest in the Bavarian marque. When I started I recieved my first company car, a 116i Sport. This was just after the UK launch, on a 54 plate, before the roads were full of them. And it felt special. It had myriad design flaws and wasn't a terribly good car per se, but it felt special.

 

To be honest, I enjoyed all my BMs, the E46 cabs, Z4s etc, even though the Banglism was in full flow. I quit sales the first time around after exactly two years, immediately after Glastonbury 2007.

 

I started at MB in January 2008, after running out of money having frittered it away on having fun. I walked into MB and, after a brief chat was offered a job there and then. I collected my CLK company car the next week. But there was no magic. Every single car I dealt with from that point onwards was a commodity, not an object of desire. Occasionally something interesting comes in as p/x, put precious little of it was built in the last three years, regardless of the badge attached to the nose.

 

With every new car launch I feel less and less to relate to. I have no connection, no empathy with them. I feel like I'm selling an image, not a machine, and I'm about the least image conscious person I know. I used to find it easy to sell a car based on driving enjoyment alone. Today, you try to discuss steering feel with a customer and they shrug their shoulders.

 

I even get the feeling that a lot of todays motoring journalists don't tell the whole truth. Many a time they pour praise over the flavour of the month and leave me wondering what the fuss is about when I get to drive it. I'd love to know what Setright would say about half the "must buy" machinery on the roads today.

 

Hardly anything interests me enough to make me want to be a salesman again.

 

I kind of agree, but it's got to be special. My company car at BMW was a 116i ES 2.0. It was okay, but in all honesty I preferred the various Mark 5 Golfs that came in as p/x. The 1 Sereies is just too flawed - no rear vision, the feeling of sitting in a post box, that stupid starter button - plus it's so bastarding ugly. The new one is a real window licker - have you seen the 'Urban' spec with white wheels and grille? What the fuck is that all about eh??

Occasionally though, you'd get to drive something really nice. The 3.0 manual 325i and 330i cars drove so well and sounded great, exactly what a BMW should be. My last dealer launch was the F10 5 Series, a very nice car once you get away from the rep spec 520d and other such nonsense.

The 3 Series Coupe is the only one I'd really want to own - but the about-to-be-launched 640i Coupe is achingly nice. I've driven the verty and that's really, really nice.

 

Selling cars now is an utter arsehole of a job, especially for one of the big PLC dealer chains where they want your soul in p/x.