Just a thought like...

[Pete-M]

Do they really set up new cars to handle? Every one I've driven has been set to massive amounts of safe, neutral understeer, feel free steering, whiplash brakes and grip above all else. I don't know how anyone can use the mainstream magazines to choose a new car, seeing as everything gets 4 or 5 stars. If I were a cynic I'd say the car makers would throw their toys out the pram and refuse to supply any press cars if they got a bad review

 

Depends doesn't it? I do loads of miles every week in new shape, poverty spec Skoda Superb diesels. They would absolutely annihilate a lot of stuff that was top of the equivalent class for handling back in '95 or whatever, Mondeos, Primulas, Lagunas etc. Genuinely wipe the floor with 'em, but at the same time the Skoda will average 50+ mpg when most of the old stuff would struggle to hit 30 mpg trying to keep up. If you tried to get a MkV Cortina 2.0 or Mk1 Cav to keep up it on a twisty B road it simply wouldn't happen. The Superb - despite having a worse power to weight ratio and FWD would disappear into the distance never to be seen again.

 

Some new stuff really is a big leap forward compared to the shite we like, but it takes a smoother, more relaxed driving style to get the best from 'em. Try 'ragging' a Superb and it won't be quick, it will understeer and the traction control will kill your excesses. It'll be horrible. Drive it smoothly with properly measured inputs and the thing will cover ground bloody quickly. Most new stuff is like this.

 

As for whiplash brakes, Volvo were fitting those back in the '70s. They're not new.

 

Oh, and I've driven Marinas and I still consider them to be horrible pieces of shit, but hey, there are always people out there who'll rate stuff other people despise. That's what this thread is about isn't it?

[dollywobbler]

Surely whiplash brakes were pioneered in 1955 with the Citroen DS? Tell you what, try hussling one of those along a twisty road! Then you might prefer a modern car.

 

I can't deny that modern cars are better in many ways, just doesn't mean I want one. Got a lift in a Renault Clio of the latest shape recently and it was PAINFUL because the suspension was so bad. I seriously thought some prankster had just welded the suspension up solid. I found the BMW X5 not far off as bad. Mind you, it was an utterly thrashed example...

[Pete-M]

Surely whiplash brakes were pioneered in 1955 with the Citroen DS? Tell you what, try hussling one of those along a twisty road! Then you might prefer a modern car.

 

I can't deny that modern cars are better in many ways, just doesn't mean I want one. Got a lift in a Renault Clio of the latest shape recently and it was PAINFUL because the suspension was so bad. I seriously thought some prankster had just welded the suspension up solid. I found the BMW X5 not far off as bad. Mind you, it was an utterly thrashed example...

 

Clio suspension is bloody awful nowadays isn't it? Strange as the early Clios rode quite well.

 

Have you been in a Corsa C SXi? Truly appaling ride in those. They're astonishingly bad on anything other than a motorway - where they're merely horrible.

 

Fiestas, on the other hand, seem to ride better with every new version.

[CIH]

I reckon you're right Pog. I honestly think most cars in the £2,000-£3,000 price range are actually worse then the sort of £600 snotters that appeal to most of Autoshite.

Bollox's Cavalier is probably a case in point and I'd be willing to bet good money it's a far more reliable (and dare I say better) car than absolutely loads that are three times the price.

 

The absolute wost thing I ever did was get a bank loan and spend £4k on a Fiat Punto just over 3 years old. In 8 months it needed an exhaust, a wiper motor assmbly and a full service which was apparantly "a major service" and cost like £270 - on a friggin 8valve fire engine. Wiper motor was like £150 dealer ony and they wanted another £100 to fit. Did it myself with my oldman in like half an our and that was before I was in the trade. That thing just absorbed money and I was paying £150 a month just to own the bastard. To be air it wasn't a bad looking thing in a totally unremarkable way.

 

Conversely my bluey cost £150 and ran for 6 months without any money spent whatsoever and was awseome in a simple, honest and robst way.

God help anyone with a 2010 Whatever in a few years time with the likes of stopstart and pre-emptive braking when all those dodgy earths and exposed wires start to fail, motorised handbrake fails and dealer stopped supporting the car years ago.....

[Pillock]

So impressed was I that I bashed out an email to Bosch UK.

 

About 10 days or so later I got an email back, saying that they were sorry for the late repsponse, but as they had no administrative systems in place for happy customers, they weren't quite sure who should handle my email.

 

 

I have to deal with a few complaints at work.... got a letter a while back which had been passed to me, turns out the customer had written to us in sheer shock that we'd done a good job. Faulty product taken away, repaired and back to them in 48 hours flat. We don't expect to receive such praise so it had been skim-read and assumed to be a complaint. Basically anything addressed to the directors is assumed to be a fuckup.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

If you listened to all the tales of woe, you'd never buy anything. The 100% reliable car that never goes wrong hasn't yet been built. I know plenty of folk with recent Vox'alls, Renaulghs etc and I don't think any of them have gone badly wrong. My Sistyer in Law's 2003 Scenic had to have an ABS ECU. But it's 8 years old. Shit, it wasn't that long ago that an eight year old car was scrap.

If you buy a new car and it goes wrong, you have a warranty. If an older one goes wrong - well, it's not new, it's been around the world at least twice and it was 20% of it's new cost so stop fucking moaning.

 

For every problem Pug 309, there are another 3000 that are okay so it's luck of the draw. Okay, buying a 1989 XJS and expecting it to stand up to everyday use without going wrong is a bit daft but modern stuff is generally okay. Even K Series mills can't be that bad - still thousands of the buggers out there. Buying an old Maserati is almost certain to end in a big bill because it's very likely to go wrong. Not buying a 13 year old S Class Merc 'because the gearboxes can go wrong' is bollocks. Some do, the majority don't.

 

I bought a new freezer in 2005. The cheapest Beko thing in Currys, £110. Do I want the extended warranty? Do I fuck. It could go wrong tomorrow and you could say I've had value from it.

[Pete-M]

Okay, buying a 1989 XJS and expecting it to stand up to everyday use without going wrong is a bit daft

 

Um, my '94 XJR is yet to give me any trouble at all, and I ran a '91 XJS for a good few months without that giving me any gyp either...

 

I think i've been lucky, but hey.... that's the chance you take with old shitters

[dollywobbler]

Indeed Pete. Sometimes I do tire of it - mechanical disasters always seem to come in groups and when most of your fleet is suddenly not working, it's a pain in the arse. Sometimes it'd be nice to have a car that starts 100% every time without having to battle to get the choke settings in the right place, or wondering if it'll actually fire on all cylinders. Problem is, if I had a car like that, I'd get bored of it - remember the Subaru Legacy I had? A great car in many ways, but boring as hell, with crap steering, a crap ride and gearing that wasn't exactly relaxing at speed.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Okay, buying a 1989 XJS and expecting it to stand up to everyday use without going wrong is a bit daft

 

Um, my '94 XJR is yet to give me any trouble at all, and I ran a '91 XJS for a good few months without that giving me any gyp either...

 

I think i've been lucky,

 

Very lucky. The chances of an XJS (and not an X300 - they're quite different) not leaking oil, coolant, not breaking, failing to start etc etc during daily use are rather remote. I love XJS's, but they're awful rubbish. 91 XJS's were the Ford era with the horrid facelift and would probably be marginally more reliable. Maybe.

[Pete-M]

Okay, buying a 1989 XJS and expecting it to stand up to everyday use without going wrong is a bit daft

 

Um, my '94 XJR is yet to give me any trouble at all, and I ran a '91 XJS for a good few months without that giving me any gyp either...

 

I think i've been lucky,

 

Very lucky. The chances of an XJS (and not an X300 - they're quite different) not leaking oil, coolant, not breaking, failing to start etc etc during daily use are rather remote. I love XJS's, but they're awful rubbish. 91 XJS's were the Ford era with the horrid facelift and would probably be marginally more reliable. Maybe.

 

I know the X300 is actually a good car (that's why I bought it..), I almost feel guilty including it with the unreliable BL shite.

 

As for my '91 XJ-S, pre-facelift, but built properly. Even the A/C worked as it should. JRB, oatmeal leather, sport suspension, but the extra cross bracing and stuff from the facelift. Was cheap, too. I paid £500 for it in '03 is the previous owner couldn't get it to go - it had a Thatcham 1 alarm he'd paid a fortune for which had gone kaput. Took about 30 seconds to disarm that and get it running, which of course I didn't do until I'd paid him. The look on his face as I drove it away was somewhat priceless.