Too big to fail? Bailouts, banks and British Leyland...

[warren t claim]

E.R style factoid.....

 

Didn't Grabers widow burn all his moulds and designs shortly after his death?

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Alvis have been about for years, though have concentrated on military stuff.

 

Disappeared into BAe Systems, actually, the brand had been dead for years. However, earlier this year, it was revived to produce replicas of the old 4.3 litre...

 

I'm guessing here but with info like that you must be a hit with the ladies.

 

Well, I'm told that the ladies like classic cars, but I'm not exactly the most attractive of people...

[RedSparrow]

BL / Rover died a long death for many reasons.

 

As scooters says, government shouldn't get involved in business. Succesive governments of all flavours did and all got it wrong.

 

BL was running a ridiculous number of plants (46? IIRC) and producing a vast range of cars from an assortment of marques some of which competed with each other to a certain extent. There were just too many marques, some of them (most of them?) should have been culled sooner, then they could have concentrated on building a decent, sensible range of cars to compete with Ford, Vauxhall etc.

 

I agree. BL could never have survived with so many overlaps in the range.

The best thing they could have done is produce just one or two models per marque and no more. This would have cut costs and allow higher production which would have made export more viable.

 

That's what I recon anyway.

 

Just for the sake of it, perhaps the line up of the mid-late 70's should have been:

Austin: Mini / Allegro

Morris: Marina

Wolesley: Princess

Rover: SD1

Triumph: TR7 / Dolomite Sprint ONLY / Stag->Broadside

MG: B / Midget

Jaguar: XJ6 / XJS

Daimler: DoubleSouvereign / DS420

Bung Leyland badges on the light commercials.

 

This erradicates most product overlaps, and although I like Triumph 2000s I think it would have been time for the newer Princess to take over.

 

SORTED.

[seth]

Just for the sake of it, perhaps the line up of the mid-late 70's should have been:

Austin: Mini / Allegro

Morris: Marina

Wolesley: Princess

Rover: SD1

Triumph: TR7 / Dolomite Sprint ONLY / Stag->Broadside

MG: B / Midget

Jaguar: XJ6 / XJS

Daimler: DoubleSouvereign / DS420

Bung Leyland badges on the light commercials.

 

This erradicates most product overlaps, and although I like Triumph 2000s I think it would have been time for the newer Princess to take over.

 

SORTED.

 

They could never have made only the Dolomite Sprint and not the rest of the range. Cost of producing a four door saloon shell for waht was a limited top of the range product? No way.

 

You've still got some competing products in that list eg Allegro, Marina, Dolomite. I think it is nigh on impossible to pick one of the actual ranges produced and say that is the one they should have kept. What really needed to happen would have been the combination of the best of them all, with a minimal range of large mechanical components, altered to suit.

[warren t claim]

Part of the BL problem was the territorial dealers with their own brand identity. Some were Austin dealers and some were morris. Could you imagine Ford having seperate dealers for their Escort and Cortinas?

[CreepingJesus]

I've always thought that the demise of BL would make a great film.

 

Easy. Just edit many, many bits of old Carry On/Ealing Comedies together, laced with judicious ads and some Yakkety Sax. Perfect. And, like the demise of the motor industry, a total dog's breakfast composed of too many disparate parts, which were never meant to get along. It could be done on a budget of lamb dhansak and Tesco Value vodka. Luis Bunuel, eat yer heart out!

Seriously tho', they did everything possible to create great cars. The Maxi, SD1, and Stag were all great on paper; but were let down by abysmal build quality and poor backup when irate customers tried to claim their warranties. Add in Machiavellian in-fighting at the top, and it isn't hard to see where the sacks of banknotes various chancellors sent them went.

Sadly, the British bike industry was let down more by industrial grade inertia. Over at Hams Hall, they took a good look at the new, fairly reliable Japanese fours, and redesigned the seat covers.

[M'coli]

Just for the sake of it, perhaps the line up of the mid-late 70's should have been:

Austin: Mini / Allegro

Morris: Marina

Wolesley: Princess

Rover: SD1

Triumph: TR7 / Dolomite Sprint ONLY / Stag->Broadside

MG: B / Midget

Jaguar: XJ6 / XJS

Daimler: DoubleSouvereign / DS420

Bung Leyland badges on the light commercials.

 

This erradicates most product overlaps, and although I like Triumph 2000s I think it would have been time for the newer Princess to take over.

 

SORTED.

Still too many for the core to survive. Let's be brutal, even though it will cause me pain:

 

Austin - Mini and a smaller Allegro, to meet the new supermini challenge, otherwise they've missed that market sector.

Morris - Marina, perhaps using Dolomite underpinnings or at least the front struts.

Rover - SD1 only.

Triumph - TR7.

Jaguar - XJS/XJ6 and Daimler models, just screw them together better.

 

Commercials - This is why the Marina lives over the Dolomite, unfortunately.

Develop the O-series engine for all RWD applications including a 6-pot for the SD1, stick the B-series in the Allegro if you need more power than the A-series thus not needing the E-series.

[Mr H Sceptre]

I'd probably have ditched the Morris marque and had the Marina sized car badge an Austin.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

I'd probably have ditched the Morris marque and had the Marina sized car badge an Austin.

 

Why was there any need for a Marina-type car? The Dolomite had the RWD bit covered, the non-'premium' sector was moving towards FWD, which is where the Cheesewedge (ugly and badly-built as it was) comes in... at least the Wedge, and the Landcrab before it, were extremely cleverly packaged and very roomy (not exactly something you could say of the Marina). Bung in a hatchback as well and it would have been fine... well, actually, if the Landcrab had had the O-series lump up front to start with (after all, in M and T series form, it did get mounted sideways to drive the front wheels), a hatchback and decent quality, it would have been bloody brilliant.

[Guest]

No, what you need is a GM style re-branding.

 

Austin Marina

Morris 400 (Marina-based)

Wolesley Executive (Marina-based)

Rover 2000XL (Marina-based)

Triumph Sport Custom (Marina-based)

MG Sunburst (Marina-based)

Jaguar Classic (Marina-based)

Daimler Presidential (Marina-based)

 

Repeat for all the other sizes until you're done.

[M'coli]

I'd probably have ditched the Morris marque and had the Marina sized car badge an Austin.

 

Why was there any need for a Marina-type car? The Dolomite had the RWD bit covered, the non-'premium' sector was moving towards FWD, which is where the Cheesewedge (ugly and badly-built as it was) comes in... at least the Wedge, and the Landcrab before it, were extremely cleverly packaged and very roomy (not exactly something you could say of the Marina). Bung in a hatchback as well and it would have been fine... well, actually, if the Landcrab had had the O-series lump up front to start with (after all, in M and T series form, it did get mounted sideways to drive the front wheels), a hatchback and decent quality, it would have been bloody brilliant.

The Marina was needed to compete directly with the Cortina, the Dolomite wasn't big enough and didn't have an estate version. The Wedge was too big to compete with the Cortina, it was Granada/SD1 competitor.

[Mr H Sceptre]

I'd probably have ditched the Morris marque and had the Marina sized car badge an Austin.

 

Why was there any need for a Marina-type car? The Dolomite had the RWD bit covered, the non-'premium' sector was moving towards FWD, which is where the Cheesewedge (ugly and badly-built as it was) comes in... at least the Wedge, and the Landcrab before it, were extremely cleverly packaged and very roomy (not exactly something you could say of the Marina). Bung in a hatchback as well and it would have been fine... well, actually, if the Landcrab had had the O-series lump up front to start with (after all, in M and T series form, it did get mounted sideways to drive the front wheels), a hatchback and decent quality, it would have been bloody brilliant.

The Marina was needed to compete directly with the Cortina, the Dolomite wasn't big enough and didn't have an estate version. The Wedge was too big to compete with the Cortina, it was Granada/SD1 competitor.

 

 

Yep, & the Maxi wasnt convervative enough in looks etc. (plus it made you cool as f*ck & irresistable to lasses. Fact).

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Yep, & the Maxi wasnt convervative enough in looks etc. (plus it made you cool as f*ck & irresistable to lasses. Fact).

 

Erm? The Maxi, if anything, needed to be much more radical... and it was a badly-built heap of junk. Pity, it was a brilliant design...

 

Of course, most lasses would run a mile from any guy with old shite like we're talking...

[M'coli]

Yep, & the Maxi wasnt convervative enough in looks etc. (plus it made you cool as f*ck & irresistable to lasses. Fact).

Ah! Of course, you speak from first hand experience as a Maxi owner.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Ah! Of course, you speak from first hand experience as a Maxi owner.

 

Nah, but my dad's best friend was... said it was comfortable and spacious for such a (relatively) small car, but that it rusted to f**k, bits kept falling off it and it often refused to start...

[M'coli]

Ah! Of course, you speak from first hand experience as a Maxi owner.

 

Nah, but my dad's best friend was... said it was comfortable and spacious for such a (relatively) small car, but that it rusted to f**k, bits kept falling off it and it often refused to start...

I've edited my post so people can see who it was directed at - it wasn't at you!

[Mr H Sceptre]

Ah! Of course, you speak from first hand experience as a Maxi owner.

 

Nah, but my dad's best friend was... said it was comfortable and spacious for such a (relatively) small car, but that it rusted to f**k, bits kept falling off it and it often refused to start...

I've edited my post so people can see who it was directed at - it wasn't at you!

 

 

 

I think at this point E_R I ought to let you know I'm a Maxi owner!!

[Guest]

Right.

 

 

Any problems, I will chin you.

[Volksy]

I so want an MG Balcony, or a Jaguar Subordinate...

[RedSparrow]

M'coli makes a good point about a smaller Allegro, BL missed a trick there and didn't catch up until the Metro.

If anyone can knock up a photoshop (or MSPaint as this is autoshite) of Hirst's 'Daimler Presidential' concept, they will win 100 internets.

[seth]

Any problems, I will chin you.

 

Yeah, there's no sports car. What are they going to add massive bumpers and 4x4 kits to and sell to the yanks?

[Mr H Sceptre]

Wolseley Embassy for me please

[M'coli]

Any problems, I will chin you.

 

Yeah, there's no sports car. What are they going to add massive bumpers and 4x4 kits to and sell to the yanks?

BL didn't produce one during the 70s either, if we're going to be pedantic!

[Volksy]

Can I add Vandenplas into the mix, possibly an VP Fillipiggi etc...

[Guest]

Yeah, there's no sports car. What are they going to add massive bumpers and 4x4 kits to and sell to the yanks?

That's on purpose, I'm predicting that upcoming safety regulations will ban anything closely resembling a sports car, so you just have to make do with an emissions-laden Marina with "ROVER 2000XL" down the sides in 4" high interlaced lettering (optional extra).

[seth]

TR7? Midget? MGB?

 

Yeah, I see what you mean.

[scaryoldcortina]

Any problems, I will chin you.

 

Yeah, there's no sports car. What are they going to add massive bumpers and 4x4 kits to and sell to the yanks?

BL didn't produce one during the 70s either, if we're going to be pedantic!

 

To be fair, the van divison did make convertables and fastbacks

 

I vote we start working on a time machine to send Hirst back to 1974 so he can fix the whole mess for us.

[Mr H Sceptre]

What the hell has happened to Riley?

 

Riley Rucksack, a pioneering SUV.

[RedSparrow]

Sod it, I've done it myself.

 

 

I think I could have gone far in BL's design dept.

[warren t claim]

Sod it, I've done it myself.

 

 

I think I could have gone far in BL's design dept.

 

With round spotlights that would work.