This must be a horrible thing to drive....

[worldofceri]

I think theres still time to turn this into a generic 'modern cars are toss and theyr all driven by air head cunts, fuck shit wanker etc' thread before it drops off the page.

 

Modern cars aren't toss; they're the shite of the future. But surely the point is they're so flaming expensive.

 

I've just spent a few moments doing some rudimentary arithmetic, with the aid of my 1990's spec Casio fx-85v calculator, and determined I could purchase thirteen of my Volvos for the price of that 'entry-level' Golf and have thirteen cars that are much faster, yet comparable in almost every other way.

 

If everybody in the market for a new car could buy the highest-spec version available that would suit me just fine and I'll look forward to tooling around in a nice 150K mile sub-£1K 60-plate Golf GTi in ten or so years' time.

[ProgRocker]

Today I followed something called a "BMW 316d". This must be as far removed from The Ultimate Driving Macine as an Isetta.

 

 

VW Golf? No thanks - I'll take the Skoda or SEAT everytime.

 

The dashboard in the Superb looks much nicer than the Golf's attempt. Even the dashboard in my 7 year old Nissan Almera looks much more interesting than the Golf's.

[fiatdaft]

btw cars now are cheaper now in relative terms than they ever have been.

[Alexg]

Really? I think they are bloody expensive compared to just 3 years ago

[Pete-M]

the dash isn't exactly inspiring

 

Why do you need to be inspired by a dashboard?

 

Sheesh. Ok, just for you.

 

The Superb dash isn't very interesting to look at. I have seen nicer dashboards. Upon sitting in this motor vehicle for the first time, my initial thought was not "Oh, that's a nice dashboard", it was more along the lines of "could be worse, nicer than the Octavia one, and it all seems to work well".

 

Some cars have dashboards that make me want to spend time in the car. Bentley Turbo Rs have great dashboards (floorchange models), early Citroen GS and CXs, Jensen Interceptors, TVR Cerberas, L322 Range Rovers, Series 1 XJ6s, Rover P5b Coupés, and in my case, Mk2 RS2000 Escorts. They've all got dashboards that I'll never get bored of looking at.

 

Other cars have dashboards that make me want to get straight out of whatever it is they're attached to. Lots of Toyotas have utterly shite dashboards, along with most Jap stuff. Volvo 340 dashes depress me. Alfa 75 ones infuriate me. I really despise grey dashboards (unless fitted to fast, high spec Sierras. I can't explain that.)

 

So, yeah, I do need to be inspired by dashboards. I like cars, these things are important to me.

[chaseracer]

So, yeah, I do need to be inspired by dashboards. I like cars, these things are important to me.

+1.

 

I drove a Citroen GSA through Europe a few years ago, which gave me the ongoing joy of sitting behind this:

 

 

[Albert Ross]

These do it for me. Bucketloads of character.

 

 

Although with the wheel on the other side preferred.

[Guest]

btw cars now are cheaper now in relative terms than they ever have been.

 

Yes, because every major component making up the running gear has been cost analysed and built down to the cheapest tolerance they think they can get away with. Cars are now engineered to have a three year life so by the time an average mileage has accrued they're utterly disgusting to drive. I bet Brooks Stevens is laughing all the way to the onyx pearly gates. So long as you can advertise the thing with a 'low' APR, who gives a toss if it breaks 3 years down the line? The neighbours have got their new 64 plated PoloGolfFannyBum 1.2 FHGJHGEWOIKJBDIDUGAPOIJ OMG 'FlangeTrendPremium' and we can't be looking out of date now, can we? Ford were the masters at this and now every manufacturer has followed their lead.

 

If you disagree with me on this look at this example. I have a friend who's VAG loyal to the point of fanny Wolfsburg. He's bought a new Golf every three years without fail since the Mk4. I still don't understand why he does this. With every iteration of 'Just Like A...' they get less and less reliable. He had a Mk5 FSI that was a rancid piece of shit. The cambelt snapped at 32,000 miles, it drank oil like a tramp steamer and pinked like a bastard if you put the 'optimum' high test fuel in. For some reason he traded it for another Golf, this time a Mk 6. Other than the dashboard lighting up like a Christmas tree every time you drive it somewhere, and his missus being a bit of a minger, everything's A-OK, but it's still like waiting for a bomb to go off.

 

Gorgeous plastics though. And those white dashboard lights......Christ, I nearly came.

 

 

Modern cars aren't toss; they're the shite of the future.

 

Indeed! Our shite was new once. What did people make of them then?

[boobydoo]

New cars are DEFINATELY relatively cheaper now than they have been. Ever.

 

Example...Citroen C3 1.4 VTR £500 down £127 a month for 2 years. Jeez, some people spend that a month on fags.

[pogweasel]

New cars are DEFINATELY relatively cheaper now than they have been. Ever.

 

Example...Citroen C3 1.4 VTR £500 down £127 a month for 2 years. Jeez, some people spend that a month on fags.

 

Assuming that is 0% interest, which I doubt, that would pay off just over £3500. "RRP" on that model is £13,400, and if you are not buying cash I can't see you being to haggle much... so where has the other ten grand gone?

[scaryoldcortina]

New cars are DEFINATELY relatively cheaper now than they have been. Ever.

 

Example...Citroen C3 1.4 VTR £500 down £127 a month for 2 years. Jeez, some people spend that a month on fags.

 

Assuming that is 0% interest, which I doubt, that would pay off just over £3500. "RRP" on that model is £13,400, and if you are not buying cash I can't see you being to haggle much... so where has the other ten grand gone?

 

You aren't supposed to be bright enough to realize that you just HIRED a car for 2 years and they want it back in good nick, Nick

[fiatdaft]

and do you think the car buyer that pays for the car monthly gives a fuck? nice new shiny car every couple of years,no road tax for the first year in lots of cases,no mot's,no warranty worries ,2 services at £249 and a pair of tyres for the 2 years.

 

its even cheaper than company car tax.

 

re wat's comment,not strictly true,vauxhall have a lifetime warranty now.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

The Golf certainly didn't seem as heavy or lumbering as the Astra.

 

 

Not suprised.

 

New Astra 2.0 weighs 2065kgs

New Jaguar XJ 5.0 V8 weighs 2300kgs

 

I assumed technology & 'progress' would make cars lighter, but an Astra nearly the same weight as a Jag XJ? I'm staggered.

 

Nope, both wrong. You can take about 500kg off both... the XJ is all-aluminium, which is why it doesn't weigh much more than an Astra.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

the base engine in any car range always suck. its been the same through the modern history of the car,always has ,always will.

also it looks like a low price point.

 

it exists to get you to spend more money (unless its fleet or a tax break special of course)

 

BMW 520i? That 2-litre (latterly 2.2 litre) straight-six is a lovely engine...

[fiatdaft]

not compared to the rest of the range.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

not compared to the rest of the range.

 

It's a really sweet engine, actually. Not at all underpowered for the Five - even in the Touring, 100kg heavier and a little draggier than the saloon, it'll do 0-62 in 9 seconds dead, which is all right! Sounds good, too...

 

Granted, I think the 530i is the pick of the range...

[Pete-M]

The Golf certainly didn't seem as heavy or lumbering as the Astra.

 

 

Not suprised.

 

New Astra 2.0 weighs 2065kgs

New Jaguar XJ 5.0 V8 weighs 2300kgs

 

I assumed technology & 'progress' would make cars lighter, but an Astra nearly the same weight as a Jag XJ? I'm staggered.

 

Nope, both wrong. You can take about 500kg off both... the XJ is all-aluminium, which is why it doesn't weigh much more than an Astra.

 

Indeed, by those figures, my X306 XJR is lighter than both an Astra, and the new, much more heavily equipped but alloy bodied XJ 5.0s.

 

The kerb weight for a 2010 Astra VXR 2.0 is 1315kg, which is a lot less than I expected.

The kerb weight for a 1995 Jaguar XJR 6 is 1750kg.

The kerb weight for a 2010 Jaguar XJ 5.0 Supercharged is 1892kg. Just slightly more than the gross weight of a fully laden Astra.

 

Oh, and my choice of the modern 5 series has to be whichever one has the most bhps and is preferably a V lots.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

my choice of the modern 5 series has to be whichever one has the most bhps and is preferably a V lots.

 

No, the sixes are the sweet spot in the range. The V8s are a tiny bit nose-heavy, and rather thirsty, and the V10 M5 is a bit torqueless and the gearbox is a bit rubbish. What you want is a 530i or a 535d...

[Pete-M]

Heh. I don't like the diesel ones, and a 530 doesn't have enough poke. Ran an E39 540i auto for a while, quite liked that but wouldn't bother with another one. Too many fiddly easy to break bits on it broke, and most were expensive options.

 

TBH, I'd go for an AMG E-class estate or quick Audi estate instead. New BMWs don't do it for me. Drive well, but I really can't get on with the looks, or with iDrive.

 

In fact, after seeing an E63 Estate give it beans on the autobahn, I'm seriously tempted to spend a year fighting rot on a W210 E55 AMG.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Heh. I don't like the diesel ones, and a 530 doesn't have enough poke. Ran an E39 540i auto for a while, quite liked that but wouldn't bother with another one. Too many fiddly easy to break bits on it broke, and most were expensive options.

 

TBH, I'd go for an AMG E-class estate or quick Audi estate instead. New BMWs don't do it for me. Drive well, but I really can't get on with the looks, or with iDrive.

 

In fact, after seeing an E63 Estate give it beans on the autobahn, I'm seriously tempted to spend a year fighting rot on a W210 E55 AMG.

 

You seriously don't want an Audi... nose-heavy unreliable buggers.

 

530, not enough poke? 280-ish bhp ain't fast enough for you? Plus the 535d is M5-quick, but will do 35mpg too... and sounds good. Really smooth. Not just for a diesel, but for any engine. I must admit, I share your distaste for most current BMWs... after the superb Bangle period, they're just plain bland now. Pity - Bangle style plus the now well sorted iDrive would be nice...

 

I would recommend a 335i coupé in Ruby Black, if you just want fun, distinctiveness, a bit of exclusivity (thanks to the colour), great sound (despite the turbos, it's the best-sounding BMW six since the S54B32), plus epic pace (302bhp stock, plus over 300 ft lbs of torque - and Alpina have pushed both figures up to about 400 in the B3, so I'm sure a chipper could do something similar)...

 

I agree on the AMG Mercs, though. Go for the less rusty and prettier W211, not the uglier, rustier, boxier, hearsier W210... see if you could get the 63 rather than the 55.

[Pete-M]

You're new here, aren't you?

[Albert Ross]

It would appear so, Pete.......... I think a little piece of advice would help.......... Buy a Humber Imperial.

[Pete-M]

An Imperial? Yeah man. That'll win any economy challenge

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

The kerb weight for a 2010 Astra VXR 2.0 is 1315kg, which is a lot less than I expected.

 

That must be the old Astra.

The new one is a monster, a beast.

 

Base 1.4 Expression is 1545kg - bet that's fun with 87bhp. Similar power to weight to a W123 Mercedes 300D.

The top of the range 2.0 CDTi Elite automatic is 1731kg.

[pogweasel]

re wat's commen, not strictly true,vauxhall have a lifetime warranty now.

Which, I note is only valid for 7 years, so not 'lifetime' at all really...

[scaryoldcortina]

re wat's commen, not strictly true,vauxhall have a lifetime warranty now.

Which, I note is only valid for 7 years, so not 'lifetime' at all really...

 

 

7 years and 100,000 miles has pretty much always been a vauxhalls "lifetime"......

[Mr Lobster]

And even then only to the first owner. And how many Vauxhall buyers will actually keep their new Vauxhall longer than two to three years. Not many I imagine. Seems that the 'Lifetime Warranty' was something dreamed up by a marketing depertment rather than something borne out of a belief in the quality of the product.

[Cavcraft]

Exactly, and I'd be willing to bet it has to be serviced and maintained at a main stealer too.

[Alexg]

Yeah the 'lifetime warranty' is a bit micky mouse. I'm sure the most common faults won't be covered and in the end it'll just upset many customers.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

You're new here, aren't you?

 

Yep.

 

It would appear so, Pete.......... I think a little piece of advice would help.......... Buy a Humber Imperial.

 

My almost-11-year-old brother's almost-63-year-old godfather (who has never driven) still keeps going on about an Imperial a friend of his had back in the early 70s, and how they parked it close to the Libyan Embassy to go to Mass at a nearby church, and how, after Mass, they found it had been mysteriously moved... but most of all he was impressed by its sheer presence, comfort and refinement. Me, though? I'm not such a fan. I can see the appeal, it's a fine-looking car in many respects, but the boot looks too short to me (out of proportion with the rest of the car), the engine, although essentially reliable from what I've heard, is gutless, thirsty and extremely heavy, and the handling is basically understeer, more understeer, even more understeer, "Oh God we're going to hit that tree" (even in the lighter V8 prototypes)... the whole car is dog slow, plus there's the fact that they rusted like buggery.

 

In my opinion, the Rover P5B is what the Imperial should have been, but never quite was. Better-proportioned, lightweight all-aluminium engine, even more style and presence, and a better handler from what I've heard too.

 

However, I and the other chap were discussing German cars of the last 15 years, so this bit about the Imperial is irrelevant... or, as my dad (ex-P6 3500S owner) says, "it's not irrelevant, it's a hippopotamus!".

 

Yes. That's the kind of thing I have to put up with...

 

An Imperial? Yeah man. That'll win any economy challenge

 

Yeah, just because we're into old and slightly rubbish cars here doesn't mean we can't admire the really great cars of today... even diesels! BMW's twin-turbo straight-six (in both petrol and diesel form) is one of the all-time great engines. It doesn't even have turbo lag - none at all.