Grace, Pace and Space ..even more so than the Jaguar.

[Bfg]

7 hours ago, High Jetter said:

66yo apprentice? 🤣

Sounds about as good a definition of 'life' as any I've heard ..but I guess that depends on whether you believe in an afterlife.. makes you wonder doesn't it - what's in store for us !

[Dobloseven]

Something that comes across to me,is that despite your advanced years(sorry!),you didn't in the first instance know how the Jaguar handbrake worked,nor possibly the brake servo.But driven by a desire to find out,get the job done,and possibly save money,you used knowledge and experience you'd got already,to work it out.And that to me is what it's all about.Your experiences with people who allegedly have got the skills and experience haven't exactly been  confidence inspiring which again is rather sad,as if they can't do it right,who can.

[Bfg]

No need to apologise. Old age comes to the fortunate.  Good health and mental agility during old age is something to be very thankful for. !   If I had good looks as well, and money ..and a beautiful woman - then it would have been a royal flush !  But two outta five ain't so bad 

Very true I am still self teaching. I had no idea how these Jaguar's handbrake worked, nor the calipers with their odd release mechanism, nor the servo. I'd not even handled one of those before.  Most of my misspent youth and middle age was on motorcycles. I hated working under cars (..all too often because it needed to be done out in the cold n' wet), and now only work under my own 'classics' because, as you say.. I no longer have reason to trust 'professionals', nor can I continue to afford pay for their 'best efforts' and then have to do their work again.

That said I'm having a friend restore and respray the Daimler * (bare metal) and to take my car apart and put it together again. I know I'll not like some of what he does (or doesn't) but equally I know to hold my tongue, be very grateful and accept that he's working on friend's-rate and otherwise has a life which he'd rather be getting on with. 

As I say there's opportunities awaiting for those who are diligent in their car work, honest regarding hours, and who keep to a fair labour rate. 

Pete 

* Yeah Okay.. I can advise said friend reneged on our agreement, so having gone that route and bought another body shell and spent on tools and materials - I'm out of pocket £3-1/2k.  So no I don't fucking trust other people to do a job !   .. mr angry who has to keep stum or else loose a friend.

 

[Bfg]

Today's task was to remove the Daimler's rear bumper, take a few photos regarding how it's mounted, and refit it.  Half hour job ?  ..in your dreams   

I suspect this bumper was last removed fifty plus years ago when the towing bracket (no longer with the car) was fitted. 

  

^ view from underneath the right hand side rear-bumper bracket.  Access to the seized 7/8" AF nut was impossible to get an open ended spanner on.  I later forced the bracket bent and managed to squeeze a ring onto it, but even with extended leverage that nut wouldn't shift.  In fact the rusty metalwork of the car, that the bobbin and its bracket were bolted to, was ripping apart.   The 9/16" bolt into the bumper was just as tight. even my bull-nose grips ..as tight as my big hand could close them, wasn't enough to grip it.

     

^ to my amazement my 6" metal shear cut through the steel bracket.  They're really old 'Footprint' brand, which judging by the serial number on the handle is ex-military. 

   

^ I knew about the rust to the inner panel ..and I still bought this car !  but it's also why I'm having the replacement body shell restored and bare metal resprayed.  That bumper bracket, attached to the inner wheel-arch panel is loose. ie., not connected.  Without it being connected to the car I can't use much force to undo the nut. When the bumper was on the bracket wouldn't turn.   However, the rear mount's 7/8" AF nut did come undone ..a twelfth of a turn at a time.  

   

^ my other body shell (sandblasted and in red-oxide primer).  What I needed to see from my on-the-road car, was how the lower valance (of the slim-bumper Daimler 250 /  Jaguar 240 and 340 models) fitted over the brackets ..which have captive studs mounted from the inner valance (as above).   ^ ^ The second photo shows that the later car's outer valance panel is simply riveted over the earlier model of Daimler and Jaguar's valance to hide its broad-bumper recess.  So the brackets are put on and bolted up, and then the slim-bumper valance is hides those fastenings.   For a facelift model, this would have saved Jaguar both redesign & retooling costs, and probably also served to use up existing stocks of Mk2 body shells.   

 

   

^ The culprit, more stubborn to shift than Donald Trump.   With clear access for a six-point socket though it did give in. and amazingly the bolt's head is not chewed up and so its reusable    Even after the first wave of cleaning up , the inside of the bumper still looked shabby.  Sodding heavy though so there's little fear of rust working its way through to bubble under the chrome.  Still, while it's off . . .

   

^ much power wire brushing later, and stainless steel wire wool, and a bit of reshaping the bent bottom edge and the dent around the tow bar holes, I reverted to the epoxy primer I'm fond of.  And then I've followed that with a coat of grey primer.  the latter will do nothing but hide any reflections of the red epoxy when it's fitted back onto the car. 

And that's what i need to do now .....

 

p.s.

in refitting the bumper I found another anomaly.. that of the rear brackets . . .

    

comparing each from above, relative to the rear lamp cluster, you'll see that the bumper's LHS rubber-mount is under the lamps, whereas on the RHS the rubber is more towards the centreline.  There's probably an inch and a half difference. Inside the bumper, its brackets each have two holes to accommodate it.  ..weird detail.

Anyway, that particular task is now done. . .

Bumper back on, tools packed away for the night, my face and hands washed, cuppa tea besides me, a pizza is in the oven, and inspector Morse driving around in a not too dissimilar motor is loaded into the DVD player. 

Bidding you a good evening,

Pete 

 

[Bfg]

It's been some time since I've posted here, not least because I've been using Katie, my Triumph TR4, though the summer months ..including a fair few miles with her towing my little trailer tent.

^ Unfortunately the plan of my friend Mathew restoring and painting the (spare) Daimler rolling-body-shell, and then to transferring all mechanicals and interior from my car to it - hasn't worked out.  Mathew took on the project with his eyes wide open but then had the opportunity to buy a bargain-priced project Triumph GT6, and then another, and then another, and then a TR6, and then two more Spitfires, and a herald based Gentry kit-car.  With all these distractions and a lot of driving around the country to collect them and other parts, working shifts four days on / four off, and having a family, and an aged-mother down on the IoW, as well as building more garage /workshops in his garden.. his work on the Daimler body never got into full swing.

Things dragged on and on, despite his make an effort of working a day or two at a time, but then it may be two weeks before he'd do the same again.  The restoration work was supposed (according to Mathew's schedule) to have been completed during the springtime, so its painting could have been done during the warm summer months.  In reality, ..to date only about a quarter of the restoration work (before primer and paint) has yet been touched.   

At the beginning of August, he sent me photographs of his recent welding, and I wasn't happy.  It seemed as if he was trying to rush things.  I wanted to go across and talk to him face to face, perhaps to delay things or for me to pay him more ..to do the welding with TIG.  But my asking for him to hold-off doing more work until I went up to see him (a couple of days later) led to a telephone conversation, which inevitably compromised his pride.  The concluding bottom line was ; if I'd like to take the car away, to have someone else to do the welding, then he'd be happy for it to thereafter come back to him for paint.  It was a pointed suggestion.

I wasn't going to argue or press the matter, it struck me that he wanted out.  A week later I made arrangements for car transport from his home in Norfolk to here in Suffolk, some 67 miles.  That 'professional', who I and others in the car club had used before, simply didn't make it happen ..after two months.  So, at the beginning of this month I asked again at the Triumph club meeting, if they could recommend someone else.  As it happened the area officer of our local group (branch of the club) had to car-transport into Norfolk this month.. and so just a week later (today) I've finally got the body shell delivered across to the storage barn (I'm sure Mathew was glad to have it out of his garden ..and gone away so he could get on with his own cars).

^ The rolling-body-shell is now tucked in behind my driver Daimler 250.  It still needs a mass of work.

So I'm sorta upset because I now have it as another project .. When discussed with Mathew it was agreed I'd pay for his time and materials - but I'd not actually touch the car ..not least because I've gotten old, live 75 miles away from where he lives, and I've already other obligations which are more pressing.   All things considered, I suspect I'll not  get around to touching it for a couple of years. The additional storage costs aren't huge but they do add up. I'd have preferred to had put that money into Mathew's pocket and to get the car done. 

I'm facing the decision ; to either cut my losses and flog it now (ie., right-off / throw away a couple of grand) or I bite the storage & additional cost bullet, until I have time to do the restoration work myself.  Right now I'm not sure which way I'll go. 

In the meantime, I've seriously tried to repair the friendship with Mathew (surely two grown men can agree to differ ? ) ..but it remains strained. Time will tell if it heals.  Personally I'd like it to, but understand that he'll be feeling upset with himself ..as much as with me.  

- - -

I have a Triumph TR club breakfast meeting next Saturday and a 'Coffee and Classics' morning at Needham Market the following Monday, so I hope to use Katie for those, but thereafter - with the cooler weather an' all - it's time to put her into winter storage and for me to use the Daimler.

Pete 

 

[lesapandre]

That's a very big project.

Our brief  human lives flee by - sometimes better to live in the present. Me - I'd enjoy the Daimler for what it is and sell the shell. Someone will have that.

Friends - least said soonest mended. Send him something nice at Xmas with a nice card.

[Bfg]

SU HD6 carburettor diaphragm failure. . .

Some of you might remember, I have a 1968 Daimler 250, which I've not used since May last year.  The body shell bare-metal respray and subsequent replacement never happened after my friend (who had agreed to do the task in exchange for hard cash) lost interest.  The body shell came back into storage last October, and with my being a little upset with the whole situation I sought to consolidate my various classic cars and motorcycles into one. I put Katie, my TR4 with Car and Classic website auction and after a lot of hassle finally got the advert listed.  As it happens only the very bottom price-bracket of the market was selling and even though £-thousands lower than average-market-price, she didn't reach reserve. That was over the Christmas / New Year period, and since then I've been avoiding working in the cold and so otherwise focused on my studies of twelfth-century-history. 

That was until the temperature warmed up a little at the end of last week, when I went out to the storage unit in the Triumph and swapped her, for the time being, with the Daimler. . . 

  

^ despite having barely moved in almost nine months, after the fuel pump had done its stuff, she hesitantly started from her cold battery.  Once, even when just a little warm, she settled down to a regular tickover.  Aside from one tyre which didn't maintain its pressure, I noted the more serious issue of fuel trickling out of one of the carburettors. . .

  

^ There's an electric fuel pump on these cars, to raise the fuel from the under-boot-floor tank to the twin HD6 carburettors.  Therefore at any engine revs or load - the fuel system is under pressure.  So when there's a leak - then there's a steady trickle. This is from the right-hand carb (red arrow), with petrol leaking onto the rocker cover and down into the valley between the two banks of the V8 engine.  Although a potentially a dangerous situation, I knew that if I were to try to work on this at the barn, 20 mile round-trip from home, it would take ten times as long as if I were to drive her home and be able to work in the garage.    I put the fire-safety-stick extinguisher in the boot and drove home, turning the ignition (fuel pump) off at traffic lights, ie., whenever I wasn't driving along. 

Thankfully the journey was made without incident.!

That afternoon I phoned Glen Watson (GW Carbs) who specialises in beautifully refurbishing SU carburettors to as new condition.  He had done an outstanding job on rebuilding my Triumph's carbs, and so I wanted to see if he was available to do a professional refurbishment on these.  Unfortunately ill health, together with his work load at this time of year, meant 10-12 weeks for a thorough (cleaning and polishing to be as new) rebuild job, or 4-6 weeks just to do a cursory clean and refurbishment.  The price for the latter was five and half hundred quid, and half as much again for the full job.   After a friendly chat he advised that the leak I had described was almost certainly the rubber diaphragm around the main jet had perished.   I know it's hard to believe that this bit of flimsy rubber has only lasted 57 years.  What were SU designer engineers thinking ?

The TR's twin carbs are SU HS6's which don't have this diaphragm, so I knew not what to expect, nor how it worked.  I'm pretty used to Amal carburettors off of British motorcycles but these car carbs all seem to be quite different.  Glen however, reassured me that swapping out the diaphragm wasn't very difficult, and neither should it alter the carb's settings (so hopefully no need to retune the carbs).   Previously he'd recommended Southern Carburettors and Injection, Crawley, West Sussex, as the place to go for parts, and so ..because I wanted to use the Daimler now ..ie., through the springtime and early summer months, I thought I'd have a go. 

I phoned Southern carbs - 01293_533843 and spoke to the sales department, who knew exactly which kit I needed for a Daimler 2.5 ltr V8, so I ordered a service kit for both carbs.  In my mind there's no point in doing just one carb's diaphragm when they are both as old.  The diaphragms include the main jet and so are £45 each , and so the two kits was a you-wanna-sit-down to hear the, plus vat and courier, total price.  Still they arrived the following morning before 10am.

   

^ To say that the Daimler's engine bay was typical of a daily driver, would be a bit of an understatement.  Aside from the radiator and heater, the replacement alternator and the brake servo which I'd worked on 12 moths ago - the carbs, the manifold, the top of the engine, and indeed most all around the engine bay is filthy to the point of being encrusted.!   With the air filters off, all was revealed in grim(e) detail.

    

^ before I removed the fuel-pipes or dashpots, I'd spent almost half-a-day with brushes and parts-cleaner ..in an attempt to clean the carbs and all around (to minimise the amount of crud that might otherwise drop inside the carbs).  The technique was crude but quite effective (given that I didn't want to flood the garage floor) ; Brush / scrubbing the parts-cleaner in, and then use blue-paper-towel to wipe the filthy fluid off, before scrubbing some more.  

When I did lift the dashpots off, I was pleased to see that inside each venturi was surprising clean.  Of course I also took quite a few photos as I went, so I had a record of where all the control linkages and their springs went. 

   

^ with the engine-oil filler-pipe, the water pipes to the inlet manifold, the vacuum pipe running front to rear of the engine for the brake servo, and all else being all 1/16" too tight to get a ring spanner on, getting to each of the carburettor flange nuts was, at best, awkward. And the rear lower nut - totally blind.  I did well though and only dropped one nut into the black and grimy labyrinth beneath the manifold.   

    

^ more cleaning, brushing in parts cleaner with a 1/2" paint brush, a toothbrush and an old brass brush (..a suede shoe cleaning brush, itself probably 50 years old.!).  It took ages, but I think the result was worth it.  as you can see I left the control linkages on throughout the cleaning. Only when washed off and dried with paper towel, did I undo the ball joints, dry them out and apply grease.  I also went through every moving joint and adjuster-screw thread with the oil can.   

^ Similarly my efforts to clean around and under the inlet manifold and plumbing and into the valley between the V8's cylinder heads, proved worthwhile.

Now to get on with the task. . .

   

^  There's the new main jet with the diaphragm around it.  And a new spring to lift the jet when the choke lever is released.  There's also gaskets within the folds of the information sheets.  The parts are from SU carburettors which I gather are now part of Burlen Ltd, a UK company, who also happen to restore and make parts for Austin pedal cars. 

The four screws on the underside of the carburettor are undone to release the float chamber. Under this end cap is where the diaphragm is.

    

  ^ The old diaphragm and jet looked a bit crinkled but I couldn't see any obvious split or hole through it.   ^^ the new diaphragm and jet, together with a new return spring simply drop in and are aligned with the four through screws.   I loosely did those up and then tried to skew the cap to ensure the diaphragm was seated correctly, and as the lid went down (metal to metal) I assumed that it was indeed seated flat.    I pinched up the four screws and then carefully lowered the dashpot, with its piston and needle, into place to ensure the main jet was centred correctly.  It was.  so.. the actual task of remedying the fuel leak took just a few moments, whereas cleaning everything took the best part of a day and half !

   

^ The level of fuel within the float chamber is set by simply bending the jet's lever-arm so that its fork sits neatly over a rod of 7/16" diameter.  I have a 3/8" socket set extension which happens to be this diameter.  The forks were previously over 1/2" ..which would mean the fuel level would have been a little low.   ^^ The jet's lever-arm also has a stop-tab (red arrowed) to prevent its fork end dropping too low when there's no, or very little fuel in the bowl.  The angle shown (pictured upside down) is too much ..with a consequence of ; when the float bowl is empty of fuel (after long-term storage or when fuel evaporates on a hot day) the lever-arm drops to too great a downward angle, and then the float cannot lift it..  When this happens - the jet does not close, and fuel will overflow from the float chamber.  This Daimler has black plastic pipes from the cap's overflow, so you don't see the fuel spill, but there's a puddle under the car (and of course the stench of petrol).  I re-bent this little tab - so its open angle was 15 degrees less than that shown above.. 

   

^ job done, and all back together, save the air filters which i left off for the test drive to the grocery store and to the garage for 30-ltrs of fresh fuel.

All is running well, and with all the linkages now lubricated it's all just a bit smoother too.  Cleanliness helps me now see more clearly what's what, and if and where there are any other leaks.

Bidding you a good evening and reliable motoring.

Pete

 

 

[Bfg]

Good morning campers. After rebuilding the Daimler's carbs I fitted 'stub stacks'  to them.  After reading a report that appropriately designed ones can improve power by 5%, I did this to my Triumph TR4 ..and I'm sure I could feel the improvement when driving.  Pleased with that I sought to do the same with the Daimler V8 twin HD6 carburettors  . . .

     

^  This pair of 1-3/4" stub stacks in aluminium are beautifully made, and not so expensive (off ebay) compared with the cost of fuel nowadays. Improved of air flow (..short stacks encourage air from all around the venturi to draw in) which leads to the boost in power output can be used for performance or simply efficiency.  Unfortunately, the Daimler's air filter housing would have needed extensive modifications to fit the stacks in, so I've opted to use the car without filers ..just while I'm tuning the engine, and then I'll add Triumph TR4 air filters to them.

      

^ Looking rather rude !  .. Again I think that I can feel the improvement in boost.  But without having a dyno / rolling-road the difference in performance is purely empirical, rather than measured, and may (in part) be due to adjustments I've subsequently made to the carbs' settings and their control rods. 

- - -

It's been a while since I last posted, as during the winter month of February and March I do tend to hibernate.  That's just one of the joys of being old and retired, which not only clears one more vehicle off the roads for the rest of you, but equally as unimportantly allows me to get on with my writing ..which to me is a great pleasure. (it's a long and winding fictional story set in the c.12th, with framed narratives to add diversity).  Of course, an old fart without family or friends, living alone in a detached apartment ..above garages, behind other houses, does tend to leave me a forgotten hermit.  To counter this, I go out a few times each month to meet and speak to persons.  

I use the Daimler as my winter classic, not least because LED brightness and automatic headlamp adjustment - fitted to many modern vehicles simply don't work. They are blinding to drivers of any sportscar as low as the TR4, and IMO dangerous.   So the Daimler is in use ..until the summer sunshine makes a black saloon car a rather too warm environment.  

   

3rd March Coffee & Classics @ Needham Market, Suffolk.  The cones were set out to prevent cars parking on the most sodden part of the field.  It was nice to get out on such a beautiful blue sky day, to drink good coffee and eat enjoy a sausage and bacon butty, and to chat with other classic and retro enthusiasts.

    

^ A rare treat was to see this Morgan 3-wheeler and talk with its owner.  His wearing a motorcycle helmet and thick winter clothing reminded me of when I used an open Triumph TR3 as my daily driver through the winter months ..many years ago now.  Foolish or fun ?  I reckon the latter

Another of my favourites on that day was this beauty . . .

   

The P100 Cortina pickup was always a vehicle I wanted. I used to drive a Cortina estate and always liked it.  I had a black labrador puppy which I took to work (working for a period as a design and development contractor for GKN in the west midlands) and the bored and teething animal chewed the car !  ..digging through the seats to rip out the foam rubber cushion, as well as chewing on the handbrake, the gear know and the edge of the dashboard.  Alas the Cortina was traded for a Volvo 145 (estate with manual o/d) which was relatively ugly but otherwise also a great car. 

- - -

27th March..  TR Register club meeting at the Cricketers, Eight Ash Green, Essex.  . . .  and 1st April.. TSSC club meeting at the Sorrel Horse, Barham, Suffolk.

    

The Daimler Lanchester car club is very focused on pre-1960 cars and the Jaguar - Daimler clubs tend to favour post-1970's models ..and I've never quite felt comfortable in the company of wealthy people, so I still attend TR Register and Triumph Sports-Six clubs ..even though I turn up in the Daimler.  Of course some of the TR owners are equally as wealthy as the Jag fraternity but they do tend to be more hands-on and otherwise down to earth.  As you can see from the beer on the bonnet, my Daimler is not a 'precious' car ..she's a driver.  TR owners can see the good sense in my driving her when the weather is cold or wet and the days are short, so I'm still made to feel very welcome.

   

Time to sign off now, more to come later.  In the meantime I bid you a good day.

Pete

 

p.s. when looking to clean and set the points, in the course of regular maintenance I was surprised to find there weren't any . . .

Originally two sets of contact breakers has sometime been replaced by a prior owner.  That was nice of them !

[Bfg]

^  First registered on the 11th January 1968, she's now (1st April 2025) driven 90,000 miles.  Since then, in the past two weeks (..to 15th April) we've driven another 253 miles.

^ Further to rebuilding the Daimler V8's carbs, It's ongoing work in progress to getting the mixture right and the twin carbs balanced.  I've now got the all eight spark-plugs to be light straw in colour, but perhaps a 1/4 of a turn on the adjuster screws to richen the mixture just a tad would be safer.

6th April  Coffee & Classics @ Needham Market, Suffolk

   

I met up with Tony, who lives near Woodbridge, before heading across to Needham Market for the monthly Coffee & Classics meet.   Like NFW., Tony's Daimler is also manual with overdrive.  He's owned it for 20+ years and with exceptionally low mileage and his checking the weather forecast before he ventures out in her, it's in lovely condition.  He led the way, 18 miles across country, to the meeting and I was saddened to experience just how slowly he drove.  That of course was his decision but it seems a shame to have a 140bhp Jaguar Mk2 bodied Daimler to just drive between 30 and 40mph.  I didn't realise - I must a maverick !   

   

A great turnout, with fabulous weather..  I love this event's great diversity and particularly friendly atmosphere.  

    

 

    

 

   

 

   

 

    

 

Unexpected Dave later turned up in in his Daimler 2-1/2.  For those not in the know this is the earlier model with heavy bumpers and wooden top to the dashboard.  There were dozens of minor changes, such as they having a dynamo and single air filter versus the 250's (later model) alternator and twin air filter, but otherwise they are much the same. Only a very few of the last of that model (1967) had the option of the manual gearbox. Most had the automatic.   Dave's car is all original, having been garaged all it's life and with less than 20,000 miles on the clock.   it was great to see the cars together.

Pete

 

[lesapandre]

You are spoiling us Pete! Lovely to see your great posts.

[Bfg]

11th April - Breakfast meet with the TR register group and on to visit a restoration company. . .

    

Breakfast meet at 9am at the Fowlers Farm Pub, Braintree for a full English. As that's an hour from where I live - it was, for me, an early start for a Saturday morning.  The southbound traffic was stopped near Copdock on the A14 for over five minutes, and I thought I'd miss it, but then the traffic pulled away and there was no sign as to why the road was closed at that time.  I was not the last to arrive, but one of the first to order a coffee. 

 

   

Travelling in convoy with nine TR's.

    

 

    

 

Finches - Vintage and Classic Cars < www.finchesvcc.co.uk > is small but clearly busy restoration shop.  Aside from the A35, the tiny Austin ??, the P5 and the Oxford you see here, inside the workshop was an Riley (Kestral ..I think), a Volvo (960 perhaps), an E-type V12, a Lotus Elan, and a 1960's Jaguar S-type 3.8 m.o/d freshly restored and looking gorgeous in metallic sky blue, which was soon to be offered for sale.   Very nice people to talk to and show us some of their current work.  I was tempted by the S-Type but really I'd first need to trade one of my own cars.  apparently one of our group use Finches for work on his sidescreen TR (2 ?) and is pleased with their work and service.  Certainly the cars there all looked good. 

    

After a very friendly visit half a dozen of us went to a village pub, to sit outside in the sunshine for half an hour before each headed off home.  It was a very pleasant way to spend a Saturday morning. 

     

Classics being enjoyed with friends..  Not at all bad

Pete

 

[lesapandre]

The cars - I think...

The 'Hausin of Hingland' is an A40 'Somerset'. 

The tiny Haustin is an Austin 7 '65' model or slightly later 'Nippy' (great name) - Austin had these little sports cars in their model range to rival Nuffield's MG models. After the War the tradition continued with the Austin Healey Sprite.

The beige car is a Nuffield - in this case a Wolseley 6/80 based on the Morris Oxford (you can tell by the bonnet shape) or it could be the much rarer 4/50 - same - but with a 4 cylinder engine. The engines in these were an original  design by Hispano -Suiza built under licence by Nuffield - soon after replaced by the C-Series in the new 6/90. 👍

[lesapandre]

These 'open days' are a great idea both for businesses and enthusiasts - means Finches have confidence in their offer.

If you fancy the S-Type I'd go for it. Very under-rated because of the looks but a better car then a MK2 with the E-Type IRS. 

[Bfg]

Time for a modification ..sod keeping old cars to their original spec.. sometimes it's the little things which are a pain to live with . . .

    

The Daimler's throttle pedal was of the treadle type, which to those who don't know means it was floor mounted, and hinged at the bottom.  The idea was to mimic the foot hinging at the ankle, but there are a number of issues with using it.  

• In the first place ; my ankle is quite a bit (..about six inches) higher than the pedal's throttle hinge, which is below the heel of my foot ..so the pedal's geometry isn't right.  
• Secondly ; the heel of the foot sits against the bottom of the treadle pedal with its hinge mounting. But when wearing stout shoes ; the heel of my shoe is an inch thick.  Bearing in mind I'm no ballet dancer - the thickness of rubber sole further prevents just the ball of the foot from pushing forward.
• Related to the (foot versus pedal) hinge pins being in very different places - the sole of the shoe needed to slide up the pedal as it was depressed. However the original pedal had a rubber pad over it, which prevents that slippage. Because of this - the pedal would go down but the throttle action tended to be jerky and, especially at parking speeds, needed considerable care to avoid over-revving.
• In practice the throttle was heavy. This is because ; the treadle-pedal hinges at the floor, which then pushes against the rod (see roller in the first photo) suspended from the bulkhead. Because of its short leverage ; 1-1/2 to 2 times the force required to operate the throttle.  See the second photo and you'll see how a pendulum throttle extends that leverage down to the same height (above the floor) as the brake pedal.

So.., I've unbolted and removed the treadle throttle pedal.. and found a scrap metal plate - to directly fasten to the rod suspended from the bulkhead. The plate I found in my bin is 8mm thick aluminium.  It was originally a bracket used to hold the radar screen on a yacht (reclaimed from the skip).  I've used the metal for various packing pieces over the years and this piece is what I had left.  I stomped on it to straighten the 90 degree bend (mostly) out, but otherwise it was as I pulled it out of my scrap bin.  You can just about see from the photo that its shape extends further up the right hand side.  I planned to use a jubilee clip around that and the throttle's rod to fasten them together.

The roller on rod (first photo) was removed and this left a rim (like a washer welded on) so I used a cutting disk to locally cut a narrow vertical slot into the back face of the aluminium plate.  This would stop the plate slipping sideways.  With a saddle clamp from behind to fasten the plate to that part of the the rod - I now have a pendulum throttle pedal. . .

  

Aside from refitting carpets and tiding up the shape of the new pedal - it's  Job Done !    . . . Held in place with two through-bolts to the saddle clamp behind and the jubilee clip at the top - it's solid.

The original pedal can be refitted as I've cut nothing, nor welded to, any of the original mechanism or floor.   The twin carbs each have their own return springs, and the throttle mechanism then has another, so no addition return spring is required.

Overall Cost ;  zilch ..as I had the scrap of metal, the bolts, the saddle clamp (actually the plate where a gate lock goes into) and the jubilee clip in my parts bins.

 

I did this yesterday afternoon, and just before dusk I went for a drive.  The difference is a revelation, the throttle feels half-as-heavy and it just so much smoother and controllable.

I guess..,  of all the modifications I've done to cars and motorcycles over the years - this is the one which is most felt.  I am well pleased with its lightness and feel .. It'll make the car far easier to drive. 

Pete

[Bfg]

42 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

These 'open days' are a great idea both for businesses and enthusiasts - means Finches have confidence in their offer.

If you fancy the S-Type I'd go for it. Very under-rated because of the looks but a better car then a MK2 with the E-Type IRS. 

Had one <here> , and yes it is a much better car than the live axle Mk2 or Daimler variant. I highly recommend recommend them.

 

[artdjones]

57 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

The engines in these were an original  design by Hispano -Suiza built under licence by Nuffield - soon after replaced by the C-Series in the new 6/90. 👍

Unfortunately, H-S didn't ensure that the valves rotated in position, making them prone to problems at quite low mileage, even for the early 50s.

[lesapandre]

34 minutes ago, artdjones said:

Unfortunately, H-S didn't ensure that the valves rotated in position, making them prone to problems at quite low mileage, even for the early 50s.

They also had a fibre timing gear (to keep noise down) which wore prematurely - all now replaced probably. 

These were the famous police car of the era. 

[Dobloseven]

On 15/04/2025 at 14:34, lesapandre said:

They also had a fibre timing gear (to keep noise down) which wore prematurely - all now replaced probably. 

These were the famous police car of the era. 

You're thinking of the side valve Oxford MO.The Morris Six,Wolseley 6/80 and the four cylinder Wolseley 4/50 ,with the shorter bonnet,had an overhead camshaft driven by a vertical shaft.

[Homersimpson]

On 15/04/2025 at 13:47, Bfg said:

Had one <here> , and yes it is a much better car than the live axle Mk2 or Daimler variant. I highly recommend recommend them.

 

I had one of these and they handle better than a MK2 but do feel heavier when you drive one compared to the 'sportier' MK2.  Overall a lovely car and while similar in many ways to the MK2 had some great improvements like the rear suspension and having multiple fuses behind the centre instrument panel over the grand total of two in the engine bay on the MK2.

Only real pain on one was working on the rear brakes which is a lot more difficult than most cars, much better to drop the rear cage out:

This one was mine back in 2003

 

[Bfg]

On 15/04/2025 at 09:20, Bfg said:

After rebuilding the Daimler's carbs I fitted 'stub stacks'  to them.  After reading a report that appropriately designed ones can improve power by 5%, I did this to my Triumph TR4 ..and I'm sure I could feel the improvement when driving.  Pleased with that I sought to do the same with the Daimler V8 twin HD6 carburettors  . . .

     

^  This pair of 1-3/4" stub stacks in aluminium are beautifully made, and not so expensive (off ebay) compared with the cost of fuel nowadays. Improved of air flow (..short stacks encourage air from all around the venturi to draw in) which leads to the boost in power output can be used for performance or simply efficiency.  Unfortunately, the Daimler's air filter housing would have needed extensive modifications to fit the stacks in, so I've opted to use the car without filers ..just while I'm tuning the engine, and then I'll add Triumph TR4 air filters to them.

      

^ Looking rather rude !  .. Again I think that I can feel the improvement in boost.  But without having a dyno / rolling-road the difference in performance is purely empirical, rather than measured, and may (in part) be due to adjustments I've subsequently made to the carbs' settings and their control rods. 

- - -

Now that the carbs are in tune, with light straw coloured insulator tip around each spark plug's electrode - I finished up today by adding oval air filters .

   

^ I've used the old air filters taken off 'Katie' my '67 Triumph TR4A ..just to try them.  The TR4 is 2.2 litres so not too far off the Daimler's 2.5 litre.  The Triumph uses twin SU HS6 carbs and the Daimler twin SU HD6 carbs, which have the same (40mm) intake and stud pattern for the air filters.  First task then was to open up the air filter aperture ..for the short velocity stack to sit against. 

    

^ rough cut before fairing the edge.  With the stub held in place, and looked at for a lower angle - you can see how the air flow can now be drawn in over the stack's rolled edge.

 

^  It still a scruffy engine bay, but at least the motor now looks clean and purposeful.  I used plastic tube, as sleeves, to keep the air filter's bolt holes in line with those in the carburettor flanges, through which dome headed coach bolts fasten everything together.   

Job Done.    

The rocker cover / crankcase breathers are no longer into the air filter.  There's bugger all that comes out of them, but the carb's vacuum probably does help provide negative air pressure within the crankcases to lessen oil leaks.  On my Sunbeam motorcycles I fitted a one way valve to allow air out but not back in.  That's more necessary with two pistons going up and down together, but is not nearly an issue with 8 cylinders ..where the crankcase volume remains pretty constant.  Still I'll think about it.  

At some time I'll order new air filters and probably even fit wire mesh over them (to keep my grubby finger prints off the paper) as I did with Katie's carbs, but for the time being my objective was simply to keep dust and air-borne crud out of the carbs and combustion cylinders, with minimal infringement to the improved induction of using velocity stacks.  NB. I managed to fit Katie's short stub velocity stacks inside the air filters, but these are physically larger and so I've sandwiched them between the carb's intake flange and the air filter.  

    

This is how the engine looked when I first bought the car, 15 months ago, I hope she's now feeling a little more loved.  Comparing with the previous photo, now with the oval air filters, the carbs in the above photo are mostly hidden under the pancake filters - It hardly looks like the same engine bay.   The tiny intake diameter's of the original pancake air-filter-housings might be great for minimising induction roar, for an elegant car, but I cannot imagine they did much for the car's performance.   

I'll stick with paper air filters with their greater surface area ..and the short velocity stacks between those and the carbs. 

Pete 

p.s. my choice of air filters is reversible.  I've not altered the original housings, nor the carbs so they a direct swap. 

 

    click on image to zoom.

 

[lesapandre]

Everything would have been set up to minimise induction roar - to create a silent running Daimler - the intended clientele of these were those Homburg-hatted buyers who came through the existing posh Daimler dealer network. 

These really were the heir to the Daimler Conquest Century and still-born Vauxhall tie-up. But ironically, they being only part Daimler, they still easily outsold any previous Daimler model up to that date.

Looks just lovely.

[DVee8]

I have the removal tool if you ever have to change the spark plug oil seals.

 

[Bfg]

Sometimes you can be thankful for problems...

Last Thursday I drove down to the Cricketers, Eight Ash Green, to attend the East Saxon's Triumph TR Register's monthly club meet .. in 'burble'  my Daimler.   With the daylight hours being brighter we stood around chatting and I noticed a dribble of coolant under the front.  Yesterday I investigated that and found a potentially very much more serious issue. . .

Stepping back to February last year . .

On 27/02/2024 at 12:25, Bfg said:

started the car and tested it, statically, and then in turning the car around (outside) and while washing the car. The fan is so efficient that I placed a thick T-shirt over the radiator grille and could see how it was being sucked in. Still in time it did get to the 50-degrees necessary for the thermostat to fully open.  The water / antifreeze mix expanded and overflowed into a tray placed under the car. There's no expansion tank on these old cars and so the following morning, when it had all cooled down, the water level was down to the bottom of its filler tube.  I don't like that. I want the water to be where i can see it.  so time for a quick n' dirty mod . . .

The only thing I could find to make-do was a plastic milk bottle, which I squeezed into a wedge shape besides the cowl, and sat on a block of foam on the chassis. A piece of string and a dog collar, and the weight of water keep it in place.  I've now even drilled a hole in its lid for the overflow pipe to go through.  I cut the palm of an old rubber glove as a seal around the cap.  Such sophistication is surely befitting a Daimler   ..  It works ..exactly as it should.  I can refine it later.

With the car up on stands, half in and half out of the garage, I discovered the milk carton I'd fitted (only a year ago) was split ..in two places !  Thankfully as there's no pressure and little head of water .. there were just two very slight leaks.  As it's an overflow rather than part of the working coolant system it wasn't critical, but still - to save wasting antifreeze coolant it needed to be rectified. 

Oddly, or otherwise, I remembered recently moving a new expansion tank from the boat to my garage store.  I hadn't bought it, so I'm guessing I must have reclaimed it from the marina's dumpster. . .

    

^ there was no bracket with it, and it's of small volume, but I soon found it and on a Sunday afternoon it was the best I had to hand. 

Where the milk carton had rested, on the chassis leg alongside the front-left inner wheel arch, was again the most convenient place to fit the new one. The same small dog or cat collar, as I'd used before, would again be its retaining strap. And then I used 8mm thick sticky-backed neoprene strip to keep the bottle away from the brake pipe, and to support and locate it on the chassis leg.

^ It looks almost deliberate !   We'll give it a try to see if its capacity is enough.  - Job Done.  no more water leak. . .

^ Hang on what's this ?  I had a new drip from the back of the engine.   My immediate thoughts were that a engine block core plug had suddenly given up the ghost.  Cleaning the underside of the engine to investigate where the water was coming from, I traced it back to the flange between engine and gearbox.  Many years ago I had replaced a core plug in the back face of a Jaguar 3.8 engine.  Usually inaccessible, because of the bulkhead and gearbox tunnel, I took the opportunity while that car's gearbox was out for a rebuild.  

So here I was again, with a dribble of coolant from the back of an engine.   Thankfully, it wasn't a core plug, but something far easier to rectify. 

    

The heater pipe connection (red arrow) had pulled out of the rubber pipe by 1/2".   Considering the fact that I'd driven the old girl back from the TR club meeting, at 70mph for 30 minutes, up the A14 at night - I was so fortunate that this engine coolant pipe didn't completely come off. !    Burble's guardian angel was very kind to me. 

I would like to change the steel pipes for stainless steel components, as I fear internal rust may be compromising their integrity ..especially at the ends where the jubilee clips need to clamp tight,  but at £157 from David Manners, or £177 from ADR Engineering, plus another £85 for the rubber tubes, plus new jubilee clips all adds up to a big chuck of money.  Judging by these prices I might only conclude, the Daimler V8 is more complicated than any of the Jaguar saloon straight sixes or the Daimler SP250.   

I looked into the interchangeability of parts ..but the Daimler saloon’s heater’s bent pipes appear to be unique to the car.     ..Still, I'm very thankful not to have lost the engine's coolant and boiled the engine !

Pete

 

[Bfg]

I hadn't realised that it's been so long since I posted an update on the Daimler.  Truth is that I've been using her since the end of February up to three weeks ago.  I've been enjoying driving her ..so much so that I've not swapped her for 'summer use' of 'Katie' my Triumph TR.  Looking back to my post of April 15th, I see that since April 1st I've done just over another thousand miles.  The reason I took her off the road 3 weeks ago was a sudden drop in oil pressure.  In retrospect, I think that was due in part due to my being focused (read ; brain befuddled !) with work on the boat.  In doing so I neglect to check this car's oil level, and these V8 engines don't complain, they smoothly delivery copious amounts of torque even below 1500rpm without the slightest grumble or rattle.  I hang my head in shame with such neglect ..  I am human and make mistakes after all !    Only while draining the oil, to change it, I noted the volume was somewhat short of what I'd expected.!  Oops.

As I say - my mind has been elsewhere, mojo down, and then not coping well with ageing years and/or hot weather.  There is another factor .. rarely mentioned when praising Edward Turner's fantastic Daimler V8 engine's characteristics.  Edward Turner is perhaps better known for his design of Triumph motorcycles.  Back in the day, they were amongst the best performer of mid-range British bikes. They were lightweight and quick, but personally I always preferred the Norton Commando, which were to my eyes is was much more attractive machine, which handled better, were smoother, and sized to fit persons over 5ft-9".   Nortons were also pretty close to being oil tight, which is something few honest Triumph owner could claim. Triumph's were said to be territorial and defiantly marked their domain.  Triumphs were, and perhaps still are, much famed for their oil leaks, which went with the greaser-biker and the maverick couldn't care a shit about polite society that often followed the marque.  I hadn't thought about this until I used the Daimler frequently - I've never before had a (any) vehicle consume so much oil. I haven't monitored it closely but I think we're talking in the region of 2 - 300 miles per pint of oil.  ..And my car isn't an old clapper that bellows smoke out through the exhaust, nor has oil coming out of the crankcase breathers.  It just seems be consumed, and then also marks its territory.  In short.., its excessive drinking and piddling took me unawares. That's no excuse.. I should have checked it every week.  My bad, as younger Americans used to say. 

Anyway.., whenever I buy a classic car I like to drop the sump to clean out the sludge. So prompted by an offhanded comment by a friend who has a collection of classics .. that's where I thought my Daimler's low oil pressure issue lay. He suggested, because I'd not changed the car's oil since i bought her 18 months ago, the oil filter might be clogged &/or the pressure relief valve had picked up debris.  Although he's a nice fella and not at all thick, I really don't know why I should have listened to any man whose ratio for classic vehicles on the road is 10 : 2 (against him).!  He talks-the-talk, but always seems to find something else to do than to get on and work, let alone finish, any of his projects (even after 20 years).    

Btw.. the intended oil change and cleaning out the sump didn't happen because last year I was mostly using Katie and then making and touring with the tiny trailer-tent, and this year's focus had to be on getting the boat back into the water ..after 16 years !. 

   

^ I'm fortunate to now have a garage, and it's even big enough to house the washing machine and storage shelves.  Although modestly small by today's standards, the Daimler is almost two-foot longer and eighteen-inches wider than the Triumph and really there's not a lot of space for working around the car.  Up on ramps and with just enough space at the far end, the garage door doesn't close fully, but that's okay, a bit of rope stops it blowing around in the wind. Of course theft of the car is unlikely with her being up there and her V8's knickers dropped.    . . .  

^ ^  oil drained from the sump and the oil filter canister dropped.  So far so good.  The oil wasn't thick and sludgy ..which I'd known from what I'd seen on the dipstick. 

    

^ despite the appearance of the (used but relatively clean) oil, the inside of the oil-filter canister was pretty grim ..perhaps Andrew had been right after all.   But then looking at the Wix filter which the oil just drained off - it looks pretty clean and unclogged.  Perhaps its aluminium casing is concealing hidden truths.?

   

^ I drained the oil overnight, and then poured most of the oil into a can, for responsible disposal.  The pot I use is of semi-clear plastic and examining the residue I was impressed with how clean (free of metallic particles or the tinge of copper) it was.  Only what appears to be an 'eye' from silicon seemed to be of note, the rest appears to be mostly black soot from piston ring blow-by.  

 

Destination - the sump . . .

Jaguars, in the fifties and sixties, were excellent value cars.  Bill Lyons followed in the footsteps of  pioneers like Henry Ford, insomuch as to save costs (and pass those onto the customer) he constantly sought to produce in great numbers .. so as benefit from the buying power over OEM suppliers.  Itemised cost (the price of each part) is cheaper if you buy 10,000 rather than a few hundred units. Do this for every component part of a car and then pass (part of ) this saving on to the customer ..and the car’s showroom price is lower than your competition who built fewer cars. Lower retail price meant less purchase tax too. To achieve those greater numbers - the production line used sub assemblies. The sub-assemblies would be built on the bench before being merged with the body shell in specific order.  

Aside from the all-around ease, and therefore quickness, of working on the bench, there were often other advantages ..such as the rubber-block isolation of the suspension sub-frame - to minimise road noise and vibration from the car’s body tub and interior.  In short ; through good design-engineering and  the logical progression of increasing production volumes, the small-saloon Jaguar-Daimlers offered attract style, refined interiors, good performance, handling and brakes, and better than average build quality, all at a price competitive with lesser (volume production) cars. 

Of course - what was best for production is not necessarily good for the home or garage mechanic who is tasked to get to parts of a fully assembled car. . .

   

^ Jaguar and Daimler small saloons use a front suspension-with-steering sub-assembly, which was assembled on a sub-assembly production line .. ready for the car to drop over it.  The body tub had its engine and transmission already fitted, complete with starter motor, wiring, fuel lines, etc., etc.  That's great for expedient production but not at all fun for the owner or mechanic who subsequently needs to drop the sump.  The anti-roll bar and the steering link arms are directly under it. 

Struggle as I might I couldn't get most of the steering linkage joints apart. I don't have much in the range of pullers / joint crackers, and further efforts were likely to destroy them.  Out of the eight steering rod & arm joints, I could only get the two track-rod's inner ends off.   I then unbolted the steering box and the steering's idler from the subframe's cross member, and the anti-roll bar clamps to the body tub, and just one end of the anti-roll bar's vertical links. 

     

^ With bits dangling down I was getting closer to accessing the sump.  It was clear that the shape of the sump wrapped around the starter motor ..so that too had to come off.   

But still, the steering box wouldn't come out. Again had that cross beam been just 1/2" further forward.. then it would have co-operated.  If anyone ever restores one of these Daimlers. I'd strongly recommend they reshape that sub-frame's cross member, to move the back face of that cross member forward by 3/4".  There's plenty of room forward of the beam to restore its strength. Subsequently, life under here would be so very much easier. 

 

Quite possibly - persons familiar with working on vehicles built during the past 25 years don't really know how filthy, sticky with oil leaks and road grit, cars and vans of the 60's used to get. Oil leaks were usual rather than the exception.  Just look to any classic car showroom, even of the highest quality brands which have been professionally restored, and you'll see the drip trays.  For everyday cars of the era - the situation is worse.  Home and budget-garage mechanics were more interested in keeping the cars on the road rather than a clean drip tray.  With the introduction of semi-monocoque construction - structural and underside body mount corrosion was a pandemic.  Black bitumastic underseal was commonly used as an extra barrier against the salted winter roads, and that stuff stays sticky when repeatedly splattered in engine and gearbox oil.

In short ; the underside of these (previously un-restored) cars have a copious coating of sticky &/or flaking black bitumen, used engine drips, rust and road grit (et all) to fall in your face to cover hands.  If anyone ever has to do such a job .. I'd strongly recommend they first have the underside of the car steam-cleaned by a commercial lorry inspection depot.  I hadn't expected to do this work now, so I hadn't had the underside pre-cleaned ..and the amount of filthy crud falling in my face, falling to the garage floor which I lay upon and brushed my hair in - was abhorrent.

Working from underneath, I scraped and clawed and wiped a lot of the crud off. Gravity was not my buddy while doing so.  

^ The sub-frame's front isolation rubber mounts were shot on this car. As I say it's not been previously restored ..so after 58 years it's no great surprise that the rubber parts need replacing.  Removing its rubber block, I used the (detached) back plate to ease the subframe away from the body (as seen above).  It still wasn't enough to get the steering box out.  I also had to release the rear subframe mounts.    

The subframe, with its steering released but its suspension, brakes and their hydraulics all untouched - is resting on the car ramps. The back wheels are also on ramps and the handbrake firmly on ..and those ramps chocked to prevent the car rolling anywhere as I worked (alone) underneath it.   

Still using the front mounting plates to prevent the whole sub assembly from tilting or rolling forward - I jacked under the body tub (at its forward but side jacking point) to lift the complete forward end of the body shell, with engine and everything else, up by 2".  Then I inserted the short length of 1-1/2" square timber block on top of the sub-assembly frame and lowered the car onto it.  Repeating the same on the other side. Working the jack from under the car  (to reach the other side) is not terribly easy within the confines of a single garage but possible. 

I'd previously loosened the steering column's UJ clamp to gain a little more slack, but when dropping the sub-frame (actually raising the car up from its suspension subframe) I put its bolt back in. I realised that I didn't want to loose the steering wheel being straight when it all went back together again.!    

       

^ Only then could the steering box be dropped, dangling but mostly out of the way.  I then scraped the crud off of that, because it would probably need some oil. 

. . .

Right, I'll stop here for now and post this, and write the next stage in dropping the sump. ..as Part 2.  ...please do come back later today. 

Pete.    

 

[Bfg]

Dropping the Daimler V8's sump - Part 2.

The Daimler V8 is a short-block, which I understand is some 5" shorter than the Jaguar (long-block) six cylinders engines.  Its compactness allowed the use of aluminium castings, which have cheaper (than iron or steel parts) tooling cost - appropriate to its lower production numbers.   The Daimler saloon's sump is different to that of the Daimler SP250 (Dart) sportscar, which had a traditional Triumph TR3 type ladder chassis, but (IMO) they got it slightly wrong.  If the saloon's sump had a tapered front face or else 3/4" shorter in length, it would have been clear to drop behind the Jaguar sub-frame's cross member ..and would have come out very much easier.

      

^ Access to the sump bolts isn't easy either. There are 16 sump bolts mentioned in the workshop manual, they don't mention three others which are through the bell-housing plate.   I use 3/8" drive six-point sockets.  1/2" drive wouldn't have gotten around various bits of casting (nor would they have got the anti-roll bar off).  The first photo (above) is looking back on the right hand side of the engine, to where the oil filter canister goes. Forward of this, into the side of the sump, there's a screw-in oil dipstick tube that needs to be removed, and then forward again (in the gap between engine and body tub) was the steering box.  How one is intended to check the oil level in the steering box - I don't yet know.  I couldn't do it while it was dangling, because it's filled to full when level.   ^ ^ 2nd photo - Left hand side of the engine is clearer, but you can see here why the starter motor had to come off too. 

   

^ there's not much to see from forward of the subframe's cross member, and there's ample room to reach around it to get to the forward sump bolts. Fortunately (by design) you don't need to remove the pulley, nor undo the bolts through the front timing cover. There's a bridge piece over the front main bearing, on the bottom of the engine, and a semi-circular cork-sealed sump joint below that.   

       

^ Raving success !  It's a big lump but beautifully cast.  ^ ^ Inside there's a baffle plate with an opening at the back for the oil pump's pick up pipe.  ^ ^ ^ inside the deeper end of the sump I was pleased to find next to no sludge.  I might only presume a prior owner had been in here after the car's long history of being asleep.  The gunge inside just the oil-filter canister will remain a mystery to me, as neither the drained oil, nor the sump was anywhere near as bad. 

    

^ Knickers dropped, this is what a Daimler V8 2.5 litre engine looks like from underneath.  There are five main bearings, of which the middle three are very narrow and have a reputation of wearing out. I heard one suggestion that they were the same size as used in the 1949-56 Triumph Mayflower engine of 1 1⁄4-litre capacity.  I suspect that because the shells are only 9/16" (15mm) long (wide ?) oil squeezes out its sides rather too easily.   The balancing bob-weights of this engine are as skinny as any I've ever seen, which says a lot for the inherent smoothness of a v8. 

At the rear of the engine is the gear-on-gear oil pump with crude mesh pick-up pipe.  On the Daimler Lanchester Owner’s Club forum there’s been talk of an idiosyncrasy in the design of the oil pump’s pressure relief valve (seen above poking out the side of the oil pump housing).  ^ ^ The pressure relief valve is simply a piston-type plunger which opens against a spring at the intended 50psi. It's there to prevent too much oil pressure around the engine, and not least through the paper-element oil filter ..which can collapse at (far) too high a pressure.  Oddly though its piston has a hole through it.  Again from what I've read ; it's there to avoid pulsations in the oil pressure gauge used on the Daimler SP250.  An electrical pressure gauge is fitted to the saloons but this hole remained. 

When the engine is running at normal speeds it makes little or no difference, because the pump delivers more than 50psi anyway. But the issue is when the engine is at a tickover of just 500rpm. The engine is smooth running to tick over at less than this, but of course then the oil delivered by the geared pump is less ..and this hole allows valuable oil to just disappear back into the sump. Combined with losses passed slightly worn very narrow main bearings - the pressure can drop to almost nothing.  Some argue that this acts like a sensor to advise the owner, looking at the oil pressure gauge, when to replace those main bearings. Others argue that it's dumb, and without sufficient pressure when you first start your engine, or when it's really hot - it prematurely knocks-out those bearings.  While I accept the former's argument, I'm personally in favour of making sure the engine has enough oil even at very low tick-over revs, for example after a run - when your waiting in a long queue of traffic.    

But how do you fill the hole and what difference does it make ?   A chap from Australia says he filled the hole with solder, and that improved the oil pressure when just turning the oil pump by hand from nowt to 5 psi.  That was a direct test where nothing else had been changed. At engine tick-over speeds, we might speculate, the oil pressure would be several times that result.  IMO it was worthwhile. 

       

^ Even though, if it came off the solder would simply find its way back into the sump (not through the pump), I didn't like the idea of just adding a blob of solder to the piston, so I used a brass washer (from my electrical box) and soldered a piece of wire to it. This would fit inside the piston and be held in place by the spring. Even if it came loose from the piston - it couldn't be displaced.  I'd also spent a few moments smoothing the rough top of that piston. In fact it mostly relies on sealing around its perimeter but it was ugly !

Next up.,  I wanted to check inside the oil pump, to ensure it wasn't badly scored or worn, and that it was in good order. . .

   

^  What a difficult sod to remove. The pump was held on with three tucked-under bolts, each with tab washer, and two of them too close to the pump's housing. One was difficult to see from any angle.   Again when one thinks of the brilliance of this Edward Turner engine - one is reminded that he was a motorcycle designer, who when working on an engine would generally have it out of the bike and on the bench. On a motorcycle, despite having to remove the fuel tank (Triumphs - one bolt and two fuel pipes), the exhausts and wiring - it's an easy enough thing to do.  Aside from that, those oil pump were within the timing case (eight bolts) on the side of the engine (650 Bonneville).   I have to wonder if he, or William Lyons ever lay on their backs, under a dirty car to do such tasks ? 

Certainly this would have been easier with the engine out, turning over, and with the gearbox removed.  Looking on the bright side.. if it only needs doing every 90,000 miles (the age of this engine) then who am I to second guess those great talents.?

It did come off, but in retrospect only the bottom cover-plate needed removing. ^ ^ The second photo shows wear, from end-thrust of the drive gear, on the underside of that plate. This is after I'd cleaned and rubbed down its face on a piece of fine-emery-paper, to help seal that cover.  I assure you, I caught the light to photograph it, and it looks far worse than was measurable in life.  As is usual, there's no gasket in the pump, only where it's bolted to the engine, so I closed it up again ..using a smear of WellSeal on either mating face.   

The reason I took the pump off was because I wanted to check and if necessary replace that main bearing, whose cap the pump was bolted to.  With the pump off, I removed the cap's bolts but couldn't shift it.  I repeatedly hammered it on one side and the other, but it wouldn't shift. There was nowhere to get a chisel under an edge, and so with the gearbox otherwise preventing my working around it - I gave in.  There's a point when working under a car just isn't fun. When the car's been off the road and is blocking every other task in the garage, when greasy foot and finger prints are threatening your home, when your (other) job list is already longer than the bank statement - then you concede with an infamous expletive .. " Fuck it !  .. it'll have to wait until the engine is next lifted out." 

On that note, I'll now post this episode, have some lunch before writing Part 3 - The main bearings ..

more later today . . . 

Pete  

 

[Bfg]

Dropping the Daimler V8's sump - Part 3. - main, thrust, and big end bearings.

    

^ a better shot of the Daimler v8's bottom end, with arrows to the main bearing caps.  It's the middle three which have a reputation for wear, and so it was with this engine. . .  The main bearing cap bolts are all tabbed for security but then they are not ridiculously tight (only 35-40 ft.lb.)  to remove. . .  These shells are only about 9/16" (15mm) across and of 22 diameter. Their upper halves have oil-way groves and show negligible wear, only the bottom halves which take the repeated trust of combustion loads are worn through to the copper. 

These bearings are Vandervell bearings and of standard size, and I might only guess are original, as (as far as I know) those bearings haven't been available in this size, even as new-old-stock, for many years. So 91,000 miles and many years of only been started once or a few times a year, when taken to the MoT station.  Low mileage is generally a good thing, but equally the draining down of oil for a year can leave the engines galleries empty and bearings dry, and then starting and running cold for a just few miles is no good for plain bearings. IMO., they've done well. and have now been replaced for new Tri-metal King  bearings.  

     

^ I dropped #6 cylinder big-end bearing (which is about an 7/8" wide, Vandervell - and again of standard size), and as other owners had likewise reported - there was negligible wear in either top or bottom halves of the shell.  I re-lubricated it and put back in.   ^ ^  Both the main and big end journals showed sign of use but were not burnt, acid attacked, nor badly scored. With decent oil and good filters they ought be good-to-go for another 90,000 miles. 

Crankshaft end float I'd measured to be 0.010" (ten thou) and the max specified tolerance is 0.009",  so I've replaced them for new - standard size.  End float is now close to minimum which is 0.002".    

    

^ the front main bearing is hidden under a bridge, which is sealed to the front timing chest. It's impossible to get that main bearing cap off without further dismantling, and so again I walked away..  Working with the engine in the car, I feel the likelihood of my getting it back together, sensibly oil tight, is slim.  Like the rear main bearing I decided it would be best to wait until the engine is lifted out of the car. The end bearings are much wider than the three middle mains, and according to reports do not suffer wear anyway near as badly.  If, when I put the car back on the road, I find the oil pressure to be low - then I'll know that they need to be done. As the exponent says ; Let the oil-pressure-gauge be a gauge to the bearing's wear !

^ I did however do another little mod ..to the oil-pressure-relief-valve. It's often suggested by those on the DLOC forum - to pack the relief-valve's spring with a spacer.  I had one which was 4mm thick, which, with the copper washer already in there, means the spring is packed tighter by about 5mm. This I'm told increases the oil pressure (..before the relief-valve opens) by about 5psi.  That's just 10% more than standard, but I can't see it'll hurt when the engine oil is really hot and thin.  I'd prefer more oil to be pumping around the engine ..to cool it, rather than it just flowing back into the sump. The gauge will still tell me when the bearings need replacing, but every percent of cooling & lubrication protection is surely a good thing ?  

 

Putting things back together again . . .

The sumps ends each used a D-section cork seal (above) which was hard packed.  I've replaced those with Viton seals. . .

        

^ Again it took a fair amount of effort ..because of restricted access - to chisel the old seal out (using a rounded straight screwdriver blade) and get things clean (scouring pad + carb cleaner) for reassembly. Still, I hoped my perseverance might lessen this car's oil loss.  The Viton rubber seal is like foam rubber and is round sectioned rather than D-shaped. It has a stated hardness of Shore-30 ..which is quite spongy. 

The two pieces came already cut to length, and so I can only hope they were accurate !  I used WellSeal just on the ends, which are the places most likely to leak, but otherwise they were fitted dry.  After air-drying to tackiness for an hour - the WellSeal did hold the front seal up into its groove, but he rear proved too tight a radius. The rubber seal kept dropping off, so I applied a little Thixofix contact-adhesive for just an inch-and-a-half in the middle.  I wanted leave the enough looseness in the rubber to settle according to the gap and not be restricted by the glue. The ends did then droop but acting quickly in refitting the sump - I hoped the seal went back into its groove as planned ..until I start the engine it's impossible to say.   But I honestly don't want to have to drop the sump again because of a leak.  I'm not a gambling man but I saw little choice but to try it.   

    

^ After carefully scraping and carb-cleaning the sump's mating face, I applied WellSeal non-hardening gasket sealant to either face. There is no gasket, which is just as well because I'd have to dismantle the steering, and remove the starter again to retorque those bolts after the gasket had settled.  

First photo, yes that's the working space at the end of my garage. the 5L oil can on the right gives an indication of the scale. It's against the washing machine. The car's bumper is just out of frame to the left. 

    

^ Sump back up into place and the starter motor. I placed a small-but-strong magnet to the sump plug. As the sump itself is aluminium, and the plug is a good distance below the baffle plate - I don't anticipate it going anywhere.  

^ Some of you may recall I have another Daimler rolling-body-shell that's been sandblasted and the first stages of restoration done.  It was intended to replace this car's body with it ..but then my friend who was going to do the task dropped out. That's now a dilemma ..but it had new subframe mounts.  I've stolen the four of them to use on this car.  The steel backing plates of the old ones were rusted, so I've these coated with copaslip where the isolation block sits into its subframe saddle. 

You might also note that I crudely painted these areas of subframe and body-chassis. It's only Hammerite but it may offer a little more protection since the oily-slime has been mostly wiped off. I left the paint to dry overnight. 

     

^ Painting between the chassis and the subframe is worthwhile, as that gap closes down to about 1/2" when the mounts are done up ..and is then just a dirt and water trap.  It'll also be easer to wipe clean should I have to revisit this sump.  You can just see (where the Copaslip is) that the rear subframe mounts are v-shaped for the body-chassis to sit into.  This is logical considering the side loading imposed upon this suspension subframe when the car is cornering.   ^ ^  the steering box back in place and the link arm being bolted in. 

   

^ the new oil filter, despite being made in Bosnia, is branded as a Mann filter.  From what I've read they are as good as any brand.  The oil I'm trying is Miller's Classic Sport.  It's a synthetic oil formulated for use in classics. It has a high (over 1000 ppm) zinc content and exceptional VI stability ..which I think means it has more a stable viscosity over a great temperature range. I've not used synthetic oil in a classic before, so this is a trial. But the high shear characteristics of synthetic oil is said to be significantly better than mineral oil.  I soaked (in a yogurt pot) the new filter in it overnight, to try and lessen air bubbles in the oil when I first restart the engine.

^ this was an odd thing. I replaced the spring washer under the steering column's clamping bolt, and as it tightened it - it splayed open. I happened to spot it, which I'm glad to have done because had the washer subsequently popped out - then this rather important joint would have been loose.  (the washer came out of my spares pot, it looked new but I guess it was made with budget chinese metal.  I'm not using a spring-washer now. I'm relying on Loctite and a nyloc nut. 

    

^ with the steering's track rods still not refitted - access to the oil filter was clear.  The engine-oil's dipstick tube screws into the side of the sump.  I'd not come across this before.  It goes in where the red arrow is.  The Daimler SP250 uses the same engine but with a different sump. Its dipstick is on the opposite side (the left side) of the engine. While out I cleaned and painted the tube. I hoped it might make it easier to see, down underneath the carburettors, but as I can only see the top rim I probably wasted my time.     The blue arrow is to highlight the nut on the end of the subframe's rubber-mount's bolt.  If the bolt is put the other way in, then the steering column prevents you from taking that bolt out to lower the sub-frame. This is the correct way around. 

     

^ Oil soaked filter transplanted into the, also freshly repainted, canister.  Again I mostly filled it with oil.  Filling it to the very top inevitably leads to spillage and oil dribbling down your arm, but filled to within 3/4" of the top allows a little wobble factor as I crawled back under the car.   With everything back in place, and oil in the engine ..to the correct level,  I removed all the spark plugs, and the HT lead off the coil, and turned the engine over on the starter motor for (about) 15 seconds. This was to pump the oil into the galleries and bearing that had drained down. I then lets things drain down again before repeating. Five or six times x 15 seconds doesn't seem much, but it's good to see 20psi quickly register on the oil pressure gauge. 

Only then, did I replace the plugs and start the engine, without revving but enough to avoid needing choke. This was again to pump the oil under pressure into where it should be, including those new bearings.

 

^ The photo says it all.  Even at 500 RPM tickover, just a few moments after being first started ..with the water gauge just showing a little warmth, the oil pressure is up to 50psi.  Before doing these tasks, and blocking that oil pressure relief's hole, the gauge (when cold) would be closer to 20-25 psi.  When I noted the sudden drop in oil pressure, which led me to get on and do this work, it had dropped to just 5 - 10 psi at tickover, and next to nothing when she was hot.   

I cut the engine and let her stand. It's probably just me being cautious, but I sort-of-think any bubbles in the oil need time to settle out.  I also wanted to crawl back under to check for any slight sign of oil. I could see or feel non under there.   Later on, I took the car around the block, stopped to do a little grocery shopping, and came back with a warm - 50 degree on the water gauge (.. which is just five degrees below her normal running temperature) and oil pressure at suburbia speeds (1,500 RPM) now reads 55 psi.  This is 10 psi more than she was, and so spot on with what I'd been advised about fitting the 5mm spacer under the pressure relief valve's spring.  I'm very happy to have 40-42 psi at tickover revs when hot. 👍

Job done, tools and garage floor wiped clean and things put away again.  The car is fit to use again and so is the garage space.  It'll take me a few trips to be at ease ..that everything is alright, but I'm hopeful it will be. 

Thanks for reading. I hope it's not been too long winded with crappy grammar.

I bid you a pleasant Sunday evening. 

Pete  

 

 

• Old and scruffy but to me.. certainly more distinguished and interesting than most moderns.

[Bfg]

Daimler 250 V8 manual + overdrive - Surprise ..to me at least.. she's now FOR SALE 

here ;  https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1915726

Pete

[Homersimpson]

Sorry to hear that but probably for the best, restoring one of these properly is a huge job and ruinously expensive and ultimately its value is in being a manusl Daimer V8 and if you swap the shell you lose that and its just a Daimler V8 with a manual conversion.

The last two MK2s ive done took around 5 years each and doing everything myself (paint, wood, trim tc.)  the last one still cost me over 11k.