April FOOLS

[Josh_Cohen]

i've just taxed my car feeling a little pissed off Saab 9000 Hatchback (85-98)2.0 CSE Eco Anniversary 5dRates effective from 1 May 2009Date of Registration 6 Months 12 Months Band CO2 (g/km)1 Aug 1996 – 26 Oct 1998 £104.50 £190.00 -Rates effective from 1 April 2010Date of Registration 6 Months 12 Months Band CO2 (g/km)1 Aug 1996 – 26 Oct 1998 £112.75 £205.00Peugeot 107 (05 on)1.0 Urban Lite 3dRates effective from 1 May 2009Date of Registration 6 Months 12 Months Band CO2 (g/km)27 Nov 2006 – 30 Nov 2008 - £35.00 B 109Rates effective from 1 April 2010Date of Registration 6 Months 12 Months Band CO2 (g/km)27 Nov 2006 – 30 Nov 2008 - £20.00 B 109Now not to be BITTER but the goverment is taking the piss put tax down on new cars and just applying the difference to old cars Is there not enough tax in fuel and parts already so the only way to make things cheaper is to by nasty little cars that the goverment deam ECO FRIENDLY what we fine people are doing on this site is cutting down the carbon footprint by keeping awesome old cars on the road the CO2 of my saab is double that of the peugeot 107 so that means my tax should be £40 a year LOL but thats not how it workswhen will the goverment realise that they are running people into the ground (BORN FREE TAXED TO DEATH ) the roads aren't getting any better over the last 6 months i've had to have the tracking done on my car 3 times due to potholes surely the cars that have zero tax are still contributing to the wear on the roads RANT OVER Josh

[VWPowered]

what we fine people are doing on this site is cutting down the carbon footprint by keeping awesome old cars on the road

very true and so they say a volcano lets of more CO2 than all the cars on earth

[Milford Cubicle]

Count yourself lucky you don't live in Ireland.

http://www.whatcar.ie/roadtaxcalculator.php

[VWPowered]

fuckin nora

[Josh_Cohen]

614 Euros Mental goverments are great aren't they

[jonny69]

Life cycle assessments on cars show that the bulk of CO2 is emitted in the use phase of a car by a factor of about 10, that is for every one unit of CO2 put into building a car it emits 10 units of CO2 in its life in use.So the old adage about old cars being green is, unfortunately for us, incorrect.I'm not trying to be smug, I don't like it particularly either, but that's the way it is.

[Rocket88]

Life cycle assessments on cars show that the bulk of CO2 is emitted in the use phase of a car by a factor of about 10, that is for every one unit of CO2 put into building a car it emits 10 units of CO2 in its life in use.So the old adage about old cars being green is, unfortunately for us, incorrect.I'm not trying to be smug, I don't like it particularly either, but that's the way it is.

That may be true purely on the CO2 emissions produced by the vehicle, but it doesn't take into account the cost of getting the raw materials out of the ground to BUILD a new car, it only takes into account the actual assembly process. The mining of gold / platinum, and various other rare metals which go into a modern car are extremely harmful to the environment, let alone more prosaic materials such as lead, iron ore etc. Yet another case of the bearded sandle wearers massaging figures for their own purposes. Believe NOTHING a yogurt muncher tells you, most of what they spout is complete bollocks.We're being lied to all of the time by the "we know what's best for you " brigade, epitomised by the biggest charlatan of them all, Al fucking Gore, who propogated most of this arrant nonsense

[Lankytim]

Johnny69, im open to suggestion on the subject but I think you are the only person ive come across who has that argument, all the other sources ive read say the opposite.

[Father Ted]

i thought this thread was about the B M W ad in the papeer today....

[Milford Cubicle]

Vote Green

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2009- ... udget.html

[Rocket88]

how the fuck do these people think that precious metals are mined? Do the pixies with little shovels do it? Precious metal mining is environmentally disasterous, not to mention the fact that most of it occurs in parts of the world where the poor sods digging the stuff up are little more than slaves....................

[Lankytim]

Do they not recycle scrap steel for the bodies e.t.c?

[Josh_Cohen]

Here you go guys here is some insite into a car that costs only £15 a year to tax LMAO"As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles"“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,†said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,†the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.my car has done 163,845 miles now and still going strongmy other argument is that these new cars are falling apart after 10 years My mates a mechanic he had a 55 plate Ford KA in for sills on both sides front to back MENTAL

[Rocket88]

Do they not recycle scrap steel for the bodies e.t.c?

They do indeed. And where does most steel recycling take place? In the Far East. So you have the cost of environmental transporting the stuff from your local scrappy to a sea port, loaded onto a huge boat [which are one of the worst polluters out there..] shipped halfway round the world, turned into steel ingots / sheets etc, and then shipped back again [on similar huge ships] either from the Far Est as complete cars, or to Europe for manufacture. Still think a new car in environmentally friendly?

[Josh_Cohen]

no thats what the russians did to the italians ( Fiat ) (Alfa)Recycled old ships to give them what they thought was fresh steel thats why alfas lancias and fiats rustit was in payment for the plans for the fiat 124 so they could build ladas

[jonny69]

Yet another case of the bearded sandle wearers massaging figures for their own purposes. Believe NOTHING a yogurt muncher tells you, most of what they spout is complete bollocks.We're being lied to all of the time by the "we know what's best for you " brigade, epitomised by the biggest charlatan of them all, Al fucking Gore, who propogated most of this arrant nonsense

Well I haven't got a beard and I don't own any sandles and I do LCA for a living. I'm telling you now that I don't massage figures and what you see is truth and nothing but, else it wouldn't get through peer review. You can try and believe there's some kind of conspiracy but there isn't.I agree with you that there is an associated impact with mining of materials but don't forget that every litre of fuel you put in your car has been mined and processed in exactly the same way.

Johnny69, im open to suggestion on the subject but I think you are the only person ive come across who has that argument, all the other sources ive read say the opposite.

Sorry fella, every LCA on cars concludes the same way. The environmental impact is so heavily weighted in the use phase there's simply no way of making it sway the other way.

[jonny69]

Do they not recycle scrap steel for the bodies e.t.c?

Yes, ELV states that some 85% has to be recycled, going up to 90%. That includes all glass, plastics, electronics and precious metals. That's why you don't see much exotic material like carbon fibre on everyday cars, because it's too hard or expensive to recycle and thus not used.

[Rocket88]

I see you've no comment to make on the excellent post ref the Prius?

[pogweasel]

Going back to the original post, the comparison given is between a large saab and a tiny peugeot. How much does it cost to tax, say, a 2005-on Saab 9-5, petrol...?I just picked a 2007 2.3t off eBay,

The vehicle details for LB07 CXF are:Date of Liability 01 09 2010Date of First Registration 11 07 2007Year of Manufacture 2007Cylinder Capacity (cc) 2290CCCO2 Emissions 238g/KmFuel Type PetrolExport Marker Not ApplicableVehicle Status Licence Not DueVehicle Colour BLUEVehicle Type Approval M1Vehicle Excise Duty Rate for vehicle 6 Months Rate £233.7512 Months Rate £425.00

So more than DOUBLE what you are paying. Not all that unfair, is it?

[jonny69]

They do indeed. And where does most steel recycling take place? In the Far East. So you have the cost of environmental transporting the stuff from your local scrappy to a sea port, loaded onto a huge boat [which are one of the worst polluters out there..] shipped halfway round the world, turned into steel ingots / sheets etc, and then shipped back again [on similar huge ships] either from the Far Est as complete cars, or to Europe for manufacture. Still think a new car in environmentally friendly?

Here are some transport figures. This is directly from Granta's MI database, one of the biggest materials and environmental databases in the world. All figures in carbon emissions, kg CO2/tonne.kmDiesel - ocean shipping - 0.015Diesel - rail - 0.022Diesel - 32 tonne truck - 0.033Diesel - car - 0.11Petrol - car - 0.14Kerosene - long-haul aircraft - 0.55Shipping is one of the least 'polluting' transport methods, but I agree it makes no sense to ship it to recycle it. I don't have any figures on what percentage goes off to China but I do know they were hoarding steel up until about 2008.

[FredTransit]

You beat me to it colc. Also there is no apparent allowance for actual mileage, if you buy a car and stick it in a garage for 10 years (or the equivalent to 5 out of it's first 10) it's still done it's damage to the environment.

[Owain-328i]

^^ ^^Thought it was only essex taxi's like X5's that got bum rape tax like that!!Hence why 5 series and 7 series BMW's with V8's in them from the tail end of the 90's make such good sense and are such a bargain!

[jonny69]

I see you've no comment to make on the excellent post ref the Prius?

Of course I do, I just wasn't taking the bait :DYou can try and justify hating the Prius based on it's batteries but to put it into perspective it's a 50kg battery on a total production run of a couple of million cars across a decade. We get through more battery resources than that in ONE YEAR chucking mobile phones away Perspective please. There are bigger environmental problems out there.

[Josh_Cohen]

Good Point POG my issue really i guess is that the cars that get free tax or cheap tax are still using the road so the wear an tear is still thereA Truck Not over 23,000kg is £280 PER year a mazda rx8 is £400 Per year the goverment are not taking into account the wear on the road they are just thinking about the co2 but saying that a class 2 is gonna polute more than a mazda

[jonny69]

You beat me to it colc. Also there is no apparent allowance for actual mileage, if you buy a car and stick it in a garage for 10 years (or the equivalent to 5 out of it's first 10) it's still done it's damage to the environment.

See, this is a much better system. It's fair because you're only taxed on what you do rather than on an average figure. Totally with you there.(Well kind of, my car is tax exempt so it would cost me more that way )

[Josh_Cohen]

Hence why 5 series and 7 series BMW's with V8's in them from the tail end of the 90's make such good sense and are such a bargain! LMAO

[pogweasel]

Yes in absolute terms the truck pollutes more, but as Jonny's figures have shown, moving "stuff" by truck is less damaging than moving it by car or small van. I agree that the variation in taxation is quite staggering, and that the full effects of £400 a year road tax are yet to be fully felt (You won't be able to give away large cars once they are a bit old, so they will get squished long before their life cycle is actually complete). However the principles I don't entirely disagree with. And I'll be taxing my car this week without too much complaint.

[Josh_Cohen]

^^ ^^Thought it was only essex taxi's like X5's that got bum rape tax like that!!Hence why 5 series and 7 series BMW's with V8's in them from the tail end of the 90's make such good sense and are such a bargain!

LMAO

[FredTransit]

Good Point POG my issue really i guess is that the cars that get free tax or cheap tax are still using the road so the wear an tear is still thereA Truck Not over 23,000kg is £280 PER year a mazda rx8 is £400 Per year the goverment are not taking into account the wear on the road they are just thinking about the co2 but saying that a class 2 is gonna polute more than a mazda

You are not getting it are you? As it costs 100s to fill up an HGV, and the Mazda does loads to the gallon, so the gov has to make a trade off for this. Just wait till most people are running around in electric roller skates, that's when the electric road tax will hit. Remember when ULP was cheap? As soon as 4 start went, on went the tax and up LRP went! Just wait....

[Vin]

I read a review of a programme by AA Gill in the Sunday Times a few years ago. He seemed to sum it up well for me.......

I’ve had a surprising number of letters asking why I didn’t review The Great Global Warming Swindle (Thursday March 8, C4) that has so upset the evangelical mullahs of the orthodoxy on CO2 and brimstone. Was it, a number of you pointedly inquired, because shadowy secret hands had prevented me from mentioning it? Sadly, the truth, as ever, is less conspiracy, more cockup. I did begin to watch it, but the DVD I’d been sent didn’t work. I asked the programme-makers for another one, but it never came, so it didn’t get reviewed. This, by the way, is far from rare. Production companies spend hundreds of thousands on their programmes and then, for the sake of a few quid, entrust making review copies to the work experience. I did see it in the end, and was struck by how it suffered from all the sins it accused the environmental lobby of enjoying: there was selective science and partial interpretation. I suspect that most of us who aren’t scientifically competent enough to make informed judgements, and therefore have to rely on the media, need to find another way of forming an opinion. It’s helpful to ask the oldest question in jurisprudence: Cui bono? Who benefits? Who gains from a belief global warming is not man-made or significantly influenced by man? Well, obviously, people who drill oil wells, own power stations or appear on popular motoring programmes all have an interest in global warming being none of our business. But don’t for a moment imagine that the bicycle-riding, organic-hedgerow-grazing, self-denying, 40-watt miserablists are in fact selfless crusaders for the common good. Never underestimate the sustaining pleasure in a hair shirt. Just look at George Monbiot, and witness a man who couldn’t be happier about the imminent demise of life as we know it. It’s given him purpose, prestige and celebrity: without global warming he’d be a geography teacher. In the end, if it is the end, I think it’s better to waste as little as possible, to live with a modest care, to mind what you eat and to have a conscience about what your life costs other people’s lives. It may or may not change the weather. It will be better for your soul and your state of mind, and make you a nicer person.