invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

28 minutes ago, Conan said:

Legally speaking, of course it's illegal to drive those things on the road. But considering it's the only place around with cars such as these let's just say they have an unofficial permit. I mean, even the police wouldn't want to interfere with a parade with such good will. (Influential owner or not). As it's a special event by the look of it. They've been doing it for years too.

 

ahh cool I figured such  

I did notice that in the various pictures of the collection on the internet that some of their more "normal" cars like Minis 2CVs and an FX4 taxi they have do look to have proper local registration plates, are those just for show or are they really road registried?

28 minutes ago, Conan said:

If you're average joe then you wouldn't daily an unregistered Invacar around here.

tbf if you end up with an Invacar, anywhere in the world these days I think that automatically disqualifies you from being an average joe!

 

oh and im curious what does the sticker/sign in the back window of MVW say?  

[Conan]

5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

ahh cool I figured such  

I did notice that in the various pictures of the collection on the internet that some of their more "normal" cars like Minis 2CVs and an FX4 taxi they have do look to have proper local registration plates, are those just for show or are they really road registried?

tbf if you end up with an Invacar, anywhere in the world these days I think that automatically disqualifies you from being an average joe!

 

Those with local plates are registered to be use on the road. Whether or not they run and taxed seems to depend on the car. (When I was there most of the exhibit were last taxed 2015! Some even older.) Stuff like the 2CVs get taxed because they get use in these parade regularly, so is the sole Nash Metropolitan.  But some haven't seen the road since 1998 when the place opened. ?

 

5 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh and im curious what does the sticker/sign in the back window of MVW say?  

 

I think it's from Father's day celebration. 5th of December.

[LightBulbFun]

28 minutes ago, Conan said:

 

Those with local plates are registered to be use on the road. Whether or not they run and taxed seems to depend on the car. (When I was there most of the exhibit were last taxed 2015! Some even older.) Stuff like the 2CVs get taxed because they get use in these parade regularly, so is the sole Nash Metropolitan.  But some haven't seen the road since 1998 when the place opened. ?

 

 

I think it's from Father's day celebration. 5th of December.

ah cool I appreciate the info  

 

(side note its very interesting to note the street lights pictured are GEC Turtles, they are generally regarded as a very british street light, I wonder if they are genuine GEC examples, or locally manufactured licenced ones/clones?)

[Conan]

I think the lights are locally made copies. Not GEC!

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, Conan said:

I think the lights are locally made copies. Not GEC!

interesting,  

long shot but if you happen to find one on the side of the road or crews replacing one, some detailed pictures would be neat  

and do you know what lamps they run? the poles they are on look much newer then the street lights themselves which is quite usual in itself! (if your not sure on the lamp type, do you know what colour do they light up at night? I should be able to make a good guess from that)

[Conan]

 

I hope this give you a good enough idea as to what colour they are. I'll get detailed pics next weekend! One thing to note is that they aren't going to be uniformed. The local government source their own installation and there's a few different companies supplying the lights and the pole. But they'll usually be in this warm white colour. (I think they're all LEDs now.) Some are cold white though. I wish I knew more about them so I can give better description.

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, Conan said:

 

I hope this give you a good enough idea as to what colour they are. I'll get detailed pics next weekend! One thing to note is that they aren't going to be uniformed. The local government source their own installation and there's a few different companies supplying the lights and the pole. But they'll usually be in this warm white colour. (I think they're all LEDs now.) Some are cold white though. I wish I knew more about them so I can give better description.

the ones in the picture look like High pressure sodium to me  

I wonder if they started out life as HPS, or if they were originally mercury vapour and then retrofitted at some point

neat photo BTW  

[cms206]

On 12/7/2019 at 6:45 PM, LightBulbFun said:

just noticed that MHJ54P comes back as a single decker bus for body type, so I dont think its a bedford TK! (its full colour comes back as blue and white for what thats worth)

seeing as its supposedly a bus I was hoping I could find a picture of it, but the only referance I can find of it online is in this list here http://www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk/index.htm?http://www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk/list.asp?listname=175&Type=Body

still wondering how it ended up in the middle of a block of Invacars!

MHJ 54P was a Duple Dominant-bodied Bedford VAS which lasted until 1996; Sampson of Cheshunt were a well regarded outfit, but by 1990 had been taken over by London Country NW.

Peter Sampson also owns a zoo...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-travel-boss-who-knew-10720815.amp

 

[LightBulbFun]

26 minutes ago, cms206 said:

MHJ 54P was a Duple Dominant-bodied Bedford VAS which lasted until 1996; Sampson of Cheshunt were a well regarded outfit, but by 1990 had been taken over by London Country NW.

Peter Sampson also owns a zoo...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-travel-boss-who-knew-10720815.amp

 

hah very cool  

are there any pictures of it/does anyone know who its original operator or fleet number was?

im still wondering how it ended up in a block of invacars (MHJ11P-MHJ110P are all invacars aside from MHJ54P, does leave us 1 Invacar short, MHJ111P might be an invacar, but sadly it does not turn up on the DVLA, nor does it would be chassis number turn anything up)

I wonder if it was the 54th of its fleet and the company bargned with Invacar for the registration number or something for some reason?

[LightBulbFun]

I see WOO848S and MHJ107P have been papped recently on flicker at the same show!, nice to see WOO out and about, as I noticed it changed keepers a month or 2 ago, I still need to find out who the new keeper is, and ask em for detailed photos

as I suspect WOO848S might actually be XEV87S (which would be neat seeing as XEV88S also survives ) and like to find out exactly which Model 70 this one is (as currently it has XEV87S's chassis number on its V5, I suspect its much like how TTW906R has TVW4Rs chassis number on its V5 and the actual car is TVW4R)

https://flic.kr/p/2hUWtvr

by heck are the image high resolution you can almost make out the tippers south end text on WOOs plate  

https://flic.kr/p/2hUWtAg

I also wonder if MHJ107P changed hands or not, as that was papped a few months ago at another show too

if nothing else its nice to have a colour photo of MHJ107P!  have updated the survivors list with the new photo

[cms206]

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

hah very cool  

are there any pictures of it/does anyone know who its original operator or fleet number was?

im still wondering how it ended up in a block of invacars (MHJ11P-MHJ110P are all invacars aside from MHJ54P, does leave us 1 Invacar short, MHJ111P might be an invacar, but sadly it does not turn up on the DVLA, nor does it would be chassis number turn anything up)

I wonder if it was the 54th of its fleet and the company bargned with Invacar for the registration number or something for some reason?

It was new to Sampson, Cheshunt in December 1975; from what I can gather the next two deliveries to Sampson were Plaxton-bodied Volvo B58s NVW 555/6P in April 1976 which carried fleetnumbers 55 and 57, so (yep... not 55 and 56) so it's anyone's guess if MHJ 54P was actually no.54.

No pictures yet but it appears MHJ 54P never lost it's original registration... though interestingly NVW 556P saw out it's days as EHJ 74P!

[quicksilver]

1 hour ago, cms206 said:

It was new to Sampson, Cheshunt in December 1975; from what I can gather the next two deliveries to Sampson were Plaxton-bodied Volvo B58s NVW 555/6P in April 1976 which carried fleetnumbers 55 and 57, so (yep... not 55 and 56) so it's anyone's guess if MHJ 54P was actually no.54.

No pictures yet but it appears MHJ 54P never lost it's original registration... though interestingly NVW 556P saw out it's days as EHJ 74P!

Busview says MHJ54P was indeed Sampsons' number 54. Their numbering system was sequential (with some gaps) so I guess they reserved that registration when they ordered the coach, knowing it was to be number 54, and that was before the rest of that batch were given to Invacar. One odd thing is that MHJ54P was delivered in December 1975 (licensed January 1976), yet number 53 (324NJO) is recorded as acquired three months later in March 1976 and is out of sequence.  There doesn't seem to have ever been a number 56 so I have no idea why NVW556P jumped to 57 as its registration suggests it should have been 56.

I'm sure you're aware already but MHJ53P must have been one of the last survivors, last taxed in Feb 2004.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, cms206 said:

It was new to Sampson, Cheshunt in December 1975; from what I can gather the next two deliveries to Sampson were Plaxton-bodied Volvo B58s NVW 555/6P in April 1976 which carried fleetnumbers 55 and 57, so (yep... not 55 and 56) so it's anyone's guess if MHJ 54P was actually no.54.

No pictures yet but it appears MHJ 54P never lost it's original registration... though interestingly NVW 556P saw out it's days as EHJ 74P!

 

5 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Busview says MHJ54P was indeed Sampsons' number 54. Their numbering system was sequential (with some gaps) so I guess they reserved that registration when they ordered the coach, knowing it was to be number 54, and that was before the rest of that batch were given to Invacar. One odd thing is that MHJ54P was delivered in December 1975 (licensed January 1976), yet number 53 (324NJO) is recorded as acquired three months later in March 1976 and is out of sequence.  There doesn't seem to have ever been a number 56 so I have no idea why NVW556P jumped to 57 as its registration suggests it should have been 56.

I'm sure you're aware already but MHJ53P must have been one of the last survivors, last taxed in Feb 2004.

 

very interesting stuff, strange that it jumped like that, is that verified, or could it just be a typo in someone's notes somewhere?

yeah makes sense, although I would think Invacar would then reserve another batch of registriations, rather then reserve one with a coach in the middle!

although its worth noting that from what I can tell Model 70's tended to have fairly long "gestation" periods, between the registrations being reserved and the actual vehicle being registered etc, and it can seemingly vary a lot from time to time (especially in the later years/blocks)

so who knew who got to that range of registrations first! (see REV450R vs REV453R as an off the top of my head example)

 

indeed I have MHJ53P in my reg to chassis list from back in the day when the tools I have only worked with 2001+ tax due cars, thankfully Im no longer burdened by that limitation anymore with my new tool   

I wish I was around to see what TJN352R showed up as back in the day, because seeing as she was in service until the 14th of October 2004, there's a good chance it would of had tax ending in 2005!

iv seen a few with tax due in 2004 but never one with tax due in 2005

(the deadline was the 31st of March 2003, but about 33 Model 70's soldiered on because of issues adapting their users to normal motability cars and the such like, with Marion webb being the last finally giving up TJN352R on the 14th of October 2004, I believe this is why TJN was saved, although sadly I don't think the museum its with these days really knows the significance of this specific Model 70!)

 

[cms206]

There are photos online of NVW 556P carrying fleet number 57... none of MHJ 54P yet!

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, cms206 said:

There are photos online of NVW 556P carrying fleet number 57... none of MHJ 54P yet!

interesting, I wonder when the plate change happened as its not recorded on my tool, but I dont know exactly how far back the records go

also somehow ended up with an A prefix plate at one point!

(NVW556P does not turn anything up, which is a bit odd, because when a plate is on retention/not active, my tool will normally show the last vehicle it was on, but again I dont know if the records go back to say the 1970's the oldest plate transfer I have seen is from the Mid 1980s currently)

 

(324NJO shows up on the DVLA as a 1963 AEC, but wont show up on my tool for some reason)

[cms206]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting, I wonder when the plate change happened as its not recorded on my tool, but I dont know exactly how far back the records go

also somehow ended up with an A prefix plate at one point!

(NVW556P does not turn anything up, which is a bit odd, because when a plate is on retention/not active, my tool will normally show the last vehicle it was on, but again I dont know if the records go back to say the 1970's the oldest plate transfer I have seen is from the Mid 1980s currently)

 

(324NJO shows up on the DVLA as a 1963 AEC, but wont show up on my tool for some reason)

530 MUY came off NVW 556P/EHJ 74P straight onto Duple Caribbean-bodied Leyland Tiger A137 RMJ, so likely an error in the program. After the Sampsons sold out to LCNW in 1989 the name was used by LCNW for private hire activites, A137 RMJ was one of the vehicles transferred in after the takeover.

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, cms206 said:

530 MUY came off NVW 556P/EHJ 74P straight onto Duple Caribbean-bodied Leyland Tiger A137 RMJ, so likely an error in the program. After the Sampsons sold out to LCNW in 1989 the name was used by LCNW for private hire activites, A137 RMJ was one of the vehicles transferred in after the takeover.

interesting  on one of my other tools, it can sometimes show you the new plate of the previous vehicle the number plate came from by accident, but I have not seen this tool do it, (or least not until now)

something is defo up with something, because A137RMJ comes back leyland, but with the warning that for A137RMJ, VRM is void, (which is what it says when you look up a plate thats on retention and it pulls the last vehicle that wore that plate) so I took its VIN and searched via that to get its current plate got back E118KFV, but "A137RMJ" is not on the list of previous VRMs its had!

 

[LightBulbFun]

in other news

had my 14th lesson today,

which you know is going to go well when you go downstairs to the dead end find this parked up, seen it out and about locally but never seen it park up in the estate!

I knew @Mr_Bo11ox was stalking me!, sadly no GEC Europa was to be found

 

Lesson itself went well  due to new/different car etc we revisited parallel parking, and also this particular lesson had to be scheduled a bit later (2:30-4:30 instead of the usual 1-3) which meant I got to do a bit of twilight/night driving right at the end which was interesting  

(the 50Mph A road drive part of the lesson was actually quite relaxing at twilight watch the sun set etc just cruising along  )

also I think I managed to find a better seeing position, I still had some pain up my right side but it was not as bad, and I was actually able to find the brake/throttle pedals OK this time without them feeling like they were right on top of each other (or maybe Iv just gotten use it!)

next lesson is scheduled for friday, where we plan to practice a bit parallel parking, a bit more and then after thats it on to the final manoeuvre which is parking on the right, and then after thats done, plan is to treat each lesson as if it was a test and see how I do etc  

[cms206]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting  on one of my other tools, it can sometimes show you the new plate of the previous vehicle the number plate came from by accident, but I have not seen this tool do it, (or least not until now)

something is defo up with something, because A137RMJ comes back leyland, but with the warning that for A137RMJ, VRM is void, (which is what it says when you look up a plate thats on retention and it pulls the last vehicle that wore that plate) so I took its VIN and searched via that to get its current plate got back E118KFV, but "A137RMJ" is not on the list of previous VRMs its had!

 

Whats that skip? E118 KFV... ?

[cms206]

Whats the Sampson connection, I hear you cry?!

 

Well...

[cms206]

BUT! BUT! BUT!

A137 RMJ?!

[cms206]

... and NVW 556P, with a facelifted front.

[High Jetter]

Looks like it's just knocked her to the ground!

[cms206]

... and again at the tender age of four, in April 1980 in original condition.

None of that answers MHJ 54P but it's a happy dead end to explore!

[LightBulbFun]

interesting!  they sure liked to swap their plates around!

for what its worth NVW155P-NVW254P is a block of Model 70's thankfully without any coaches in the middle!

[quicksilver]

We're drifting well away from Invacars now but registration 530 MUY is still around, now on an ex East London Dennis Trident with Shoreline Suncruisers of Scarborough (ex Y458 NHK), although confusingly it had previously been on another of the same batch (ex Y472 NHK). It's been on half a dozen vehicles over the years:

1. Volvo B58/Plaxton (ex NVW 556P): unknown date to March 1994, then re-registered EHJ 74P

2. Leyland Tiger/Duple (ex A137 RMJ): March 1994 to March 1997, then re-registered A214 WEV

3. Leyland Tiger/Plaxton (ex E118 KFV): March 1997 to April 2006, then reverted to E118 KFV

4. Volvo B10M/Van Hool (ex Hong Kong FC 9565): April 2006 to June 2015, then re-registered J314 CHE

5. Dennis Trident/Alexander (ex Y472 NHK): June 2015 to January 2018, then reverted to Y472 NHK

6. Dennis Trident/Alexander (ex Y458 NHK): February 2018 to present

 

But in the model world, the Van Hool ended up in my fleet wearing a livery that lends a lie to the fleetname because I couldn't be bothered to repaint it

[LightBulbFun]

very interesting stuff  

36 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

We're drifting well away from Invacars now

but drifting into buses (well coaches) which is another hobby of mine! 

its funny to note, due to my upbringing etc, while I have ridden on plenty of London buses, outside of a few school trips, I have never actually been on a coach in public service!

36 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

but registration 530 MUY is still around, now on an ex East London Dennis Trident with Shoreline Suncruisers of Scarborough (ex Y458 NHK), although confusingly it had previously been on another of the same batch (ex Y472 NHK).

I did notice it was on a Trident, which I found quite fitting/cool as the Dennis Trident is a bus i remember very fondly from my childhood along with the Routemaster of course  

36 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

1. Volvo B58/Plaxton (ex NVW 556P): unknown date to March 1994, then re-registered EHJ 74P

 

I do wonder if EHJ74P is an age related plate rather then a private plate?

ie in that, perhaps the DVLA did not have proper records of its original plate being NVW556P, so when its private plate was transferred off rather then being given back its original plate it was given EHJ74P? it would explain why NVW556P is nowhere to be seen on my tool, as because as far as the DVLA database is concerned it was never issued to that vehicle

(EHJ74P certainly looks like an age related plate, as EHJ-P would not have been issued in normal sequence) although funnily enough, still Chelmsford, although IIRC back then even age related plated where matched with the location of where it was being issued, I don't think they bother now sadly)

side note I just as a quick verification of it being an age related plate I stuck EHJ70P into the DVLA checker, just to see if I got an imported/self registered vehicles,

and it so happens to be a Cobra (kit?) car, which is fitting given the reg number/AC connection  (which was Made in 1976 but registered in 1993 confirming to me that EHJ74P is probably just an age related plate)

[LightBulbFun]

just finished updating each entry on survivors list on page 24, with date of Last V5 issued (where applicable)  

side note the uploaded images part of that post looks amazing

 

and fun random fact for tonight, the smallest Model 70 "Block" I have come across is the HWC-N block comprising of just 2 Model 70's HWC998N and HWC999N, it sits between HVW59N-HVW158N and HHJ1N-HHJ98N (im guessing it exists to plug the 2 of HHJ and bring it up to 100 cars),

unless we count single cars in that case ROO799M which sits between RTW601M-RTW700M and ROO901M-ROO999M, (which I suspect exists I think to act as the 100th car in the later ROO block) or UTW473R, which exists between UTW339R-UTW363R and UAR879S-UAR978S (I suspect this one exists to make up the "loss" of UTW339R which is a private Model 70)

or LPF701P, between the KPL11P-KPL210P and LPE801P-LPE993P blocks, and it exists possibly to do with NI shenanigans? 

[quicksilver]

14 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I do wonder if EHJ74P is an age related plate rather then a private plate?
 

It is an age-related re-registration. Prior to about 1994/95, instead of reissuing the previous registration when a cherished plate was transferred the DVLA would issue a new one from a re-registration series (WWL-T is one such series I know of), possibly because they didn't have access to the records of previous registrations at that time. I wonder why the second 530 MUY became A214 WEV instead of reverting to A137 RMJ as by 1997 the usual policy was to reissue the previous registration if it was available.

That screenshot does look cool, like an old 35mm filmstrip full of Model 70 pictures.

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

It is an age-related re-registration. Prior to about 1994/95, instead of reissuing the previous registration when a cherished plate was transferred the DVLA would issue a new one from a re-registration series (WWL-T is one such series I know of). I do wonder why the second 530 MUY became A214 WEV instead of reverting to A137 RMJ as by 1997 the usual policy was to reissue the previous registration if it was available.

 

well for some reason A137RMJ via my tool gives (going by chassis and engine number) me E118KFV (but it does tell me when I search with A137RMJ it tells me the VRM is currently void), and A214WEV, gives me some optare excel, but with 1984 for Date of registration/year of manufacture, (and im pretty sure the VIN/engine number it gives me is not for an Optare excel) with the following previous registrations!, and does not tell me the VRM is void

seems like some poor database somewhere is properly confused

 

I do recall someone here, who runs a bus company? was transferring number plates around, and got frustrated with the DVLA because they issued a bus a new number rather than giving back its original number like it should of been given

I cant remember who, but I do recall his buses where dark red/maroon

I wonder if things are handled a bit diffrently for buses/coaches for some reason? or if it is just good ol DVLA shenanigans