My Xantia HDi - Minor Electrical Question!

[bub2006]

I've found that there isn't many xantias in Scrapyard's anyway. I see your point with surprising people on the road,my xud estate can get a shift on when it wants to!

[Supernaut]

I've found that there isn't many xantias in Scrapyard's anyway. I see your point with surprising people on the road,my xud estate can get a shift on when it wants to!

 

I think my remapped HDi is a bit slow, but my last car was a V6 auto...

 

It's not that slow, really. What's more surprising is its cornering ability. A big wafty French thing shouldn't be able to hang on so hard on corners!

[bub2006]

Mine is an estate and i have said something that large shouldn't corner like it does. Nor should an xud pull like that! My other half has a 1.8 vectra and it certainly doesn't pick up like my xantia and that has 125bhp and not much weight difference

[Lacquer Peel]

It's all about the torque in a diesel.

Xantias, even non-Hydractive models, handle really well, they absorb bumps that would make you slow down in most other cars.

A shame the steering is so vague.

IMO the related Peugeot 405 has a better ride and handling balance with boring steel suspension, and much better steering feel.

[bub2006]

Only 405 I owned was a 1.6 carbed car with water features many moons ago. I don't find steering too bad at all.

[Supernaut]

It's all about the torque in a diesel.

Xantias, even non-Hydractive models, handle really well, they absorb bumps that would make you slow down in most other cars.

A shame the steering is so vague.

IMO the related Peugeot 405 has a better ride and handling balance with boring steel suspension, and much better steering feel.

 

Aye, a mate at uni had a 405 XUD and it was very wafty and he could throw it around rather amusingly!

 

I just got a Xantia to tick a hydropneumatic Citroen off my list, really. I'm loving it so far though, even though everybody who sees it comments on how much of a shed it is.

 

Seeing as I can't seem to get replacement body panels for it easily, I may just continue down the shite-spec path. I have a free day tomorrow before me and 17-Coffees set off for shitefest on Thursday, so may go to the scrappy and get a random mid-2000s pair of PSA group front seats for it. Hurr. I suppose I could get a tin of black hammerite and a brush, to do the wheels...

[Lacquer Peel]

It looks tidier than most of the vehicles I've owned!

[Supernaut]

I finish work at 3 today so may pop past Halfords on the way home... d'you reckon a 250ml tin of Hammerite would be enough for all 4 wheels?

 

I could even see how much I have left and do the spare too...

[Lacquer Peel]

Test the metal paint at Poundworld so I don't have to.

[Supernaut]

Test the metal paint at Poundworld so I don't have to.

 

Is it direct to rust stuff?

[17-Coffees]

There will be a fair few scrappys between Aberdeen & Buckinghamshire we can stop by, want to swing by the U-Pull-It outside of Edinburgh myself just for a wee look. 

 

Should also be enough space between the two cars for storing any crap taken as well...

[Lacquer Peel]

Is it direct to rust stuff?

 

I work near Poundworld and checked, it isn't direct to rust and seemed as thin as water when I shook it. £1 though.

[forddeliveryboy]

It's all about the torque in a diesel.

Xantias, even non-Hydractive models, handle really well, they absorb bumps that would make you slow down in most other cars.

A shame the steering is so vague.

IMO the related Peugeot 405 has a better ride and handling balance with boring steel suspension, and much better steering feel.

 

To be fair, the 405 was from a previous generation of 'chassis', which saw the light of day 34 years ago in the BX. Spring rates were quite different back then.

 

But I'd say a 406 also gives a better ride in everyday use, when not loaded up with trailers or holiday stuff and at low to medium speeds. Citroën under Peugeot persisted with gas over oil suspension even though much of the detail work in the physical arrangement of the suspension had long since been deleted because of cost, so it's not surprising that when on 15 year old hydraulic oil, with local-garage supplied spheres, cheap tyres and so on, the fluid suspension doesn't give its best.

 

What is forgotten so often about old Cits is that it wasn't just the spheres and self-levelling liquid pushrods which gave ride and handling which out-Jagged an XJ6, but a similarly well-designed suspension layout. That spheres can work so well in a Xantia really just highlights how 19th century it is to wedge a bent or twisted up length of steel between the body and wheel arm, for suspension.  

[rantingYoof]

There will be a fair few scrappys between Aberdeen & Buckinghamshire we can stop by, want to swing by the U-Pull-It outside of Edinburgh myself just for a wee look. 

 

Should also be enough space between the two cars for storing any crap taken as well...

 

Here's one that is two miles from where you will leave the M1...

 

CLICK.

[Supernaut]

Well I found a 250ml tin of Hammerite smooth black in my shed, seems unused as it's pretty full!

 

Looks like I'll need another 250ml tin of it. Also, I'm not going to paint the wheels today as I'm picking up a free bicycle at 8pm...

 

I'll paint them tomorrow afternoon.

[Lacquer Peel]

But I'd say a 406 also gives a better ride in everyday use, when not loaded up with trailers or holiday stuff and at low to medium speeds. Citroën under Peugeot persisted with gas over oil suspension even though much of the detail work in the physical arrangement of the suspension had long since been deleted because of cost, so it's not surprising that when on 15 year old hydraulic oil, with local-garage supplied spheres, cheap tyres and so on, the fluid suspension doesn't give its best.

 

It's not like I owned 405s with all new springs and dampers to compare the Xantias with. I like HP suspension but I prefer the more involved drive of the 405, and its suspension works better most of the time.

[forddeliveryboy]

Aye, but as I said, the 405 is a different chassis, shared with the BX. The BX is a more involving drive than a Xantia or 406, and the suspension works better most of the time.

 

As for 405 vs BX, the 405 is the better car overall, but I'd choose a BX anyday on the back of its versatile suspension and high speed ability on poor roads.

[Lacquer Peel]

Xantia and 405 were concurrent so it's not an unfair comparison. The Xantia does weigh quite a bit more and is more refined to be fair.

 

In contemporary road tests the 405's ride was considered the BX's match without the drawbacks.

[forddeliveryboy]

I've driven them back to back, the 405 is a wonderful machine, it makes the BX feel the parts-bin stop-gap it was intended to be, until sales went through the roof. You always feel more connected at more regular speeds with steel springs, the 405 is probably the very summit of achievement of the conventional French car, along with the Reggie 16. I adore them, almost car perfection. They should reintroduce them tomorrow, sold as the car for those who want to enjoy life rather than risk-assess everything they do.

 

BXs suffer the problems you'd expect with a bastardised chassis - the spheres and LHM grafted over a MacPherson strut steel arrangement, but all the benefits an oil pushrod self-levelling, infinitely-rising rate gas sprung and near-zero inertia system has, which becomes ever more apparent the harder you work it, or the worse conditions become. It's all about tyre contact patch pressures.

 

Even though it was 1955 tech, it's still better than anything out there today - unlike the current Mercedes systems, it's tough, simple, inexpensive to service and long-lasting if you spend half an hour every 5 years changing the LHM and cleaning the filters (500,000+ miles for most components except for the spheres, until PSA-d). 

 

Interesting that the 405 has a wider track than the BX, given both companies' histories. I wonder how that came to be? With the track of the 405, a BX would be even better.

 

But the Xantia/406 is a heavy, 1990s car, well tied down with stiffish springing and intended to be able to handle high cornering forces and be able to whip roundabouts into submission, whereas BXs/405s are loping, relatively softly-sprung lightweights which have longer suspension travel and are very different machines. Perfect for normal roads - after all, even a VW rides ok on motorways.

[rml2345]

The thing about the Xantia is that it's an easy introduction to the world of Hydropneumatic motoring with all the trimmings. Something I still can't quite accept in mine is just how powerful the brakes are! They're fabulous when pressing on and coupled with the excellent ride make it a rather capable A/B road machine even with the numb steering. I reckon if it gave better feedback you could keep pace with an 850...

It also opens the door to more gas sprung Citroëns. I've started eyeing up XMs now...

[Supernaut]

I wildly over-estimated how much Hammerite I'd need.

 

I found a 250ml tin of it in the shed, and bought another 250ml tin just in case. I did all 4 wheels with a third of one tin...

 

[forddeliveryboy]

The thing about the Xantia is that it's an easy introduction to the world of Hydropneumatic motoring with all the trimmings. Something I still can't quite accept in mine is just how powerful the brakes are! They're fabulous when pressing on and coupled with the excellent ride make it a rather capable A/B road machine even with the numb steering. I reckon if it gave better feedback you could keep pace with an 850...

It also opens the door to more gas sprung Citroëns. I've started eyeing up XMs now...

 

I agree, although they're far less reliable and long-lived in the hydraulics dept than a GS, CX or DS, the pumps are particularly prone to leaks. I think the big difference is that your average mechanic can see it's fundamentally a 'normal' car, with this grafted over the top. An old Cit would usually be welcomed with as big a gulp as if you'd just dropped a MP4-12C at the local garage for a service, when it was all Peugoet bar the spheres, it was no longer such a problem. The best bit about a Xantia is its ability to resist corrosion.

 

Its worst bit, for me, is the brake pedal. At the back of the pedal is the usual hydraulic valve which doses high pressure fluid to the brakes according to pressure rather than (foot/pedal) movement - superb - but in an effort to placate the motoring journalists  who tripped up with the different reaction to a regular brake pedal, Citroen stuck a bloody great compression spring between the pedal and valve, making it much more difficult to modulate them. I guess had it been making expensive, exclusive cars, a company with such an extraordinary brake 'pedal' as a DS (so much better in every way) the journalists would have decided it was superb, but in a car aimed at Joe Bloggs, it was a problem.

 

The upside is that it's so easy to remove the spring and replace it with something solid. Then you have proper Citroën brakes - they take an hour or so of adjustment if you've never experienced them before, but they're beyond superb - especially if the rear calipers are working properly.

 

The load on the rear brakes is directly (and highly accurately) proportional to the load on the rear axle, so with rear brakes working properly and spheres which aren't so hard they prevent much movement, the back of a Cit will be pulled down slightly under braking from speed, loading the back axle more and so applying more pressure to the rear brakes and repeat in a seamless cycle ofrapid slowing. It's a bit like having a drag parachute if you experience this from 70-80mph+. From 130mph and more, it's beyond uncanny.

[rml2345]

I might have to give the pedal spring modification a go as it can feel snatchy when braking from higher speeds, particularly when attempting to bring the car to a smooth halt.

[Supernaut]

Just thought I'd throw this photo in here...

 

 

This car is growing on me more and more. The cosmetics are a bit of a downer, but I guess I can't see it from the driver's seat!

Driving back from shitefest, it just ate up the miles. Our second leg of the journey back was far more fun, going up the A68 through Northumberland and the Borders, it can carry utterly stupid speeds round corners, while still wafting along like a big sofa on wheels. The remapped HDi is rather good at 45mph 4th gear overtakes too, if you make sure to bury your right foot well into the carpet.

 

Put it this way; I scared the shit out of a Dutch-plated Mercedes GLA when I overtook them at twice the speed they were going, to the point they indicated left and let a heap of people past after I'd overtaken. Fuck knows what was going through their mind when a battered, mud splattered Xantia with mis-matched Mercedes wheel trims and a massive CB aerial wobbling around, screamed past them then fucked off round the next corner after barely slowing down...

[Lacquer Peel]

Those trims are terrible.

[Supernaut]

Those trims are terrible.

 

I'm tempted to look for another 6-spoke one so the whole set matches...

 

EDIT: What a surprise, ebay mongs charge stupid money for individual Mercedes wheel trims. Fuck that. I may or may not remove them and go back to the bare steelies. Meh, the car is outside and I'm inside right now.

[DodgyBastard]

Those trims are terrible.

 

Oi! I had them fitted to the Tata. They are pretty fucking horrible though. A set of 190e hubcaps would be nicer probably.

[Lacquer Peel]

They looked shit on the Tata, but slightly less shit due to the quasi-Mercedes styling.

[Supernaut]

Yeah, but a set of any Mercedes wheel trims is about £40 plus postage on t'bay, and this car doesn't deserve that being spent on cosmetic tat.

[Supernaut]

FFS.

 

Airbag light is back on, and cleaning the contacts under the seats hasn't sorted it this time.

 

Also, how the fuck do you get the driver's door card off? The mirror is rattly and the electric window doesn't seem quite 'right', so I'd like to have a good look around inside there.

 

 

 

£6 per ticket, or 3 for £16...