Rice Warmer - '92 Prelude automatic - 19/3 check engine light fixed

[dollywobbler]

Excellent. Glad Muriel's old motor* is getting some love. All I did was top up the screenwash.

[JohnDeere]

Back from Shah Jahan, now part 2.

 

Coolant. First needed the entire engine undertray removing to access the radiator drain plug. The service manual has a picture of a bolt to drain the coolant from the engine block. This bolt either doesn't exist, or is definitely not accessible when the car is balanced on creaking pallets.  I tried one bolt that looked to be in the right place (looking a bit like a sump plug). This just pooped out a bit of oil into my bowl, so I hastily torqued it back up.   In the end I decided to change whatever was in the radiator and weird little expansion tank.

 

I measured a radiator full of plain water from my watering can (3.5 litres), dropped that back out, and then chucked in 1.75 litres of coolant and 1.75 litres of water to get the 50:50 mix.

 

 

Brakes. Turns our the Prelude's brake fluid tank isn't compatible with my Ezeebleed. So that will have to wait for another day.

 

While I had the wheels off, I whipped off one of the front arch liners.  Not a hint of grot underneath, it looks brand new.

 

 

The back arches are a different story. I'll worry about that later.

 

Last little jobs. DW had cut the alarm wire to stop it sounding when the battery was flat in the fob. I reinstated it with a crimped bullet connector. Not sure why I bothered, as no combination of opening doors, windows, or moving around inside the car with the alarm set seems to set it off. At least the bullet connector makes it easy to disconnect again if it gets a mind of its own.

 

 

Final job, remove the fake fog lamps. These were just fixed to the front bumper with rusty self-tappers. Never connected, the wires were just tucked behind.  I had thought about keeping them and wiring them up, but decided against.

 

 

So that was my day's tinkering.  Need to decide what to do about the grot in the back arches. (a) ignore till it becomes terminal - another two years at most; ( bodge a bit of rust converter and filler and hope for the best © do a proper cut and welding job, expensive.  We'll see.

 

[dollywobbler]

It was FPB7 who cut the wire, as I'd neatly demonstrated that the alarm definitely works and it was very, very loud. Alarm had been set with the blipping and all I did was unlock the door with the key and open it.

Glad the fog lights are gone at last!

[JohnDeere]

The alarm is indeed satisfactorily loud. Muriel had a well-spent £180 there.  However the only thing that I could do that actually sets it off is pressing the other button on the fob.  Presumably it's a cunning design to catch out thieves who steal the keys and press the wrong button.

[vulgalour]

Are those front spots/fogs any good?  I could be interested in rehoming those.

[JohnDeere]

Are those front spots/fogs any good?  I could be interested in rehoming those.

 

I can test them straight off the battery tomorrow.  Happy to send them over if they work.

[Jimbo]

John Deere you must me local to me ( I'm new here). I'm in Littleport. I've also met Dollywobbler when he photo'd my Monza for classic car weekly 9 years ago approximately.

Still got it DW.

Some other Opel botherers from this parish i have met too.

[Honey Badger]

The new filter looks the same as the one on my V6 accord, i think OEM Honda filters for anything over a 2 litre are the same size as that, some places send the bigger filter but its not the right one.

 

Dunno if you have power steering but if you are going to change the power steering fluid then use the Honda fluid as anything else shags the rack and pump pretty quickly.

 

Its a great looking car still, 3 times its been for sale and 3 times i haven't had the money or the time to try and buy it, sounds like your going to look after it as well which is good to hear, especially when you see how they get chavved up.

[phil_lihp]

Looking good, nice work!  That would explain why I couldn't find a switch for those lights.

[J-T]

I've a feeling one of the rear arches (the better one) has had a repair panel welded in, although that one was just starting to go again when I had it. If you catch it in the right light you can see sanding marks in the paint around where the join would be & faint outline of filler.

[vulgalour]

Seems right to put up this picture of the new home for those spotlights.

 

[JohnDeere]

Seems right to put up this picture of the new home for those spotlights.

 

 

 

Lovely, did you manage to get them to work?

[JohnDeere]

I've a feeling one of the rear arches (the better one) has had a repair panel welded in, although that one was just starting to go again when I had it. If you catch it in the right light you can see sanding marks in the paint around where the join would be & faint outline of filler.

 

Thanks for that, useful to know - I'll have a closer look when I'm back from my current work trip to Las Vegas land.

 

tbh, I'm in a real dilemma about the back arches. They really need something doing this year before they get too far.  It makes no financial sense to be a huge weld and paint job, but a rust-converter and filler job will last even less time than the (must have been shoddy) repair you mention here.

 

i think it's probably time to learn to weld. My next-door neighbour has MIG and TIG kit that I can borrow. I'm seriously thinking of buying a scrapper to practise on...

[vulgalour]

They're that simple there's nothing really to go wrong.  Not taken them apart yet but I see no reason why they won't work.  I'll let you know when they're sorted.

[JohnDeere]

When I acquired the Prelude, DW mentioned that the auto box was sometimes reluctant to shift into the "5th gear" - the top 1:1 direct drive ratio - particularly when cold.

 

I've noticed now that it doesn't seem to want to shift into top at all - meaning motorway journeys are a tad on the noisy side and petrol drinkage is around 28mpg. I did some man maths to convert engine RPM to road speed, and confirmed that it is indeed sticking in the 4th gear 0.750 ratio ... (4.285 final drive ratio, 205/55.15 tyres)... as 70 mph is 3200 rpm and 80 mph (apparently) is 3700 rpm.

 

It does occasionally get there, but less and less.

 

I recall DW mentioning that it's a "they all do that" problem. but can't find any definitive guides online.  Any suggestions?  Obvious start is another transmission flush and ATF change. Any other Honda-specific suggestions to look for?

[JohnDeere]

When I acquired the Prelude, DW mentioned that the auto box was sometimes reluctant to shift into the "5th gear" - the top 1:1 direct drive ratio - particularly when cold.

 

I've noticed now that it doesn't seem to want to shift into top at all - meaning motorway journeys are a tad on the noisy side and petrol drinkage is around 28mpg. I did some man maths to convert engine RPM to road speed, and confirmed that it is indeed sticking in the 4th gear 0.750 ratio ... (4.285 final drive ratio, 205/55.15 tyres)... as 70 mph is 3700 rpm and 80 mph (apparently\ is 3200 mph.

 

It does occasionally get there, but less and less.

 

I recall DW mentioning that it's a "they all do that" problem. but can't find any definitive guides online.  Any suggestions?  Obvious start is another transmission flush and ATF change. Any other Honda-specific suggestions to look for?

 

Seems like the other thing to do is remove the lock-up solenoid and clean its filters and the solenoid itself.  Will give that a try, but will have to be after Shitefest now due to having no spare time.

[dollywobbler]

Hmmm. I'd got used to it behaving once it had warmed up. I have removed what I think was the lock-up solenoid and the filters didn't seem clogged. I know folk have mentioned that they can just be like this, but that fluffing where it didn't seem to want to engage when cold didn't seem entirely right in hindsight. Sadly, I'm entirely in the dark when it comes to auto gearbox internals!

[JohnDeere]

Hmmm. I'd got used to it behaving once it had warmed up. I have removed what I think was the lock-up solenoid and the filters didn't seem clogged. I know folk have mentioned that they can just be like this, but that fluffing where it didn't seem to want to engage when cold didn't seem entirely right in hindsight. Sadly, I'm entirely in the dark when it comes to auto gearbox internals!

 

I haven't ever noticed the "fluffing" bit ... but where I live it's always hot before it would want to get into top.  On the motorway it doesn't seem to be even trying. Will check the ATF fluid level as a first shot.

[phil_lihp]

When I acquired the Prelude, DW mentioned that the auto box was sometimes reluctant to shift into the "5th gear" - the top 1:1 direct drive ratio - particularly when cold.

 

I've noticed now that it doesn't seem to want to shift into top at all - meaning motorway journeys are a tad on the noisy side and petrol drinkage is around 28mpg. I did some man maths to convert engine RPM to road speed, and confirmed that it is indeed sticking in the 4th gear 0.750 ratio ... (4.285 final drive ratio, 205/55.15 tyres)... as 70 mph is 3700 rpm and 80 mph (apparently\ is 3200 mph.

 

It does occasionally get there, but less and less.

 

I recall DW mentioning that it's a "they all do that" problem. but can't find any definitive guides online. Any suggestions? Obvious start is another transmission flush and ATF change. Any other Honda-specific suggestions to look for?

It had a full flush and ATF change just before I sold it to DW so it should be clean as a whistle, I could never work out a pattern to it and it only started a couple of months prior to that.

 

I hope it's not a difficult fix, it still ranks as one of the best cars I've driven and definitely the sharpest handling one.

[dollywobbler]

It did it to me just after I bought it - accelerating up to speed on the link road before it was fully warm. At home, it'd regularly do it the first time I got up to 60mph, but would then be absolutely fine all day. When it happened, it'd properly hunt as you hit 52mph, with the lock-up cutting in and out. The only solution was to slow down to below 50.

[JohnDeere]

It had a full flush and ATF change just before I sold it to DW so it should be clean as a whistle, I could never work out a pattern to it and it only started a couple of months prior to that.

 

I hope it's not a difficult fix, it still ranks as one of the best cars I've driven and definitely the sharpest handling one.

 

My only thought is that it sometimes takes a few changes to flush through the ATF, so another one might not hurt and should be easy and cheap enough to do. Will have another look at the solenoid too ... one of the Honda forums suggests that both the filter and the innards benefit from a clean and a quick application of 12v to test for actuation.

 

Having said that, it'll probably be right as rain when I drive back from London on Thursday night.

 

Top priority is getting the Visa ready for Shitefest though so Prelude might have to take a back seat till then.

[JohnDeere]

Another thought on this... gearbox faults should be indicated by a fault code and flashing D4 light. But the D4 light has never worked. Is it possible that a prior owner disconnected the bulb to hide a fault (I'd assumed it was just a failed bulb/LED)?

 

DW / Phil_lihp do you ever recall seeing it lit? I'll have a go an getting it working (can fix the clock too) and see if it reveals any codes...

[dollywobbler]

Nope. Never saw that bulb light up. Like you, I'd assumed it had just failed given it's the one that would be on all the time. 

[phil_lihp]

Hmm, now that is interesting! Reason being, a while after I bought it the ABS stayed playing up, turned out a previous owner had unplugged a faulty sensor and then taken the ABS warning light bulb out of the dash. The bulb was replaced and I fitted a replacement sensor (NS front if you're wondering) which sorted that out but does suggest a previous owner had their own method of getting rid of warning lights!

[J-T]

D4 light never worked when I had it either...or the ABS light...wasn't me, honest!!

 

Hope it's easily sorted, this was such a pleasant thing to bob about in.

[JohnDeere]

Hmm, now that is interesting! Reason being, a while after I bought it the ABS stayed playing up, turned out a previous owner had unplugged a faulty sensor and then taken the ABS warning light bulb out of the dash. The bulb was replaced and I fitted a replacement sensor (NS front if you're wondering) which sorted that out but does suggest a previous owner had their own method of getting rid of warning lights!

Interesting - I'll have a poke around and have a look at the bulbs...

[JohnDeere]

Another long drive this evening and counting of gear changes.  Actually, I think I was wrong the first time and there is a slight "nudge" into "5th" soon after 4th.  RPM only drops about 2-300 though, so hardly noticeable.  So it's probably fine and I'm worrying unnecessarily.

 

I'll do another ATF change in any case (I ordered some from Opieoils while buying oil, plugs and filters for the Visa), and will fix the D4 bulb to check for faults. Will give the solenoids a final check and clean too.  Just to be on the safe side.

 

Now I can go back to worrying about the back arches instead...

[bigfella2]

It's not daft like some of the old Mercedes auto boxs' that start off in second if your only setting off slowly, but only set off in first if you accelerate quickly?

[dollywobbler]

No, it always pulls away in first. Three gear changes, then a torque converter lock up at pretty much exactly 52mph from what I remember. Thing is, that lock up can sometimes be extremely smooth - far smoother than the 188k-mile Jag XJS I've been tooling around in recently. 

[JohnDeere]

Having not used the Prelude for a couple of weeks I lobbed it in for an MoT today. If I hadn't been a completely lazy cock and had actually checked things like bulbs it would have passed first time. As it happens, the only fail was a tail light (which I noticed within the first 20 seconds of the test). The tester (who is now using his P-reg Morris 18-22 (pre-Princess) as a daily) commented "it's remarkably good".  Just one advisory for a very slight bit of rust where the brake hose comes through the arch just before the flexi.

 

With such a clean bill of health, I will have to get round to giving it a bit of loving and fix the scabby back arches.

 

The next car up for test was a 59-plate Megane. The tester and I agreed that it was a miserable shit heap, and I urged him to fail it