Down to my last used Jonny. Only the Anglia 105E left.

[forddeliveryboy]

Good result at the MoT test, can we look forward to a Le Mans and back thread now, Ami-style? Hope so.

Getting in a lhd Cit A-series when you're not used to either must be like milking a cow straight into your coffee, bloody odd for most Westerners.

They're so completely different from anything else, back in the 60s and 70s it was mainly eccentrics, architects, artists and the odd lawyer who ran them. It's so easy to overlook how different England was in the 60s and 70s, if you bought foreign people would have taken note and many village garages openly despise you - a DS, ID, Ami or 2cv would've appeared odder than Her Maj smoking a joint.

Yet millions were built, in factories all around the world. In the Francophone world they were part of everyday life, little made more sense, except for the R4 for those who couldn't manage with just enough power - it made the Dyane redundant before it was even launched. I remember French streets echoing to the sound of multiple flat twins whining away, along with Selective Yellow and those different rates of blinkong lights in France, whether indicators or pharmacy green crosses. A 2cv was the French equivalent of a Land Rover, the Ami did the job of what a Discovery does for many today. Little wonder there's an energy crisis.

They do everything differently and at first some bravery is needed, but they'll sail around corners far faster than you could ever imagine. They should only understeer significantly on slow corners, the faster the bend, the more neutral they become, especially with an original chassis and the right tyres. Most of the mass is very low, allowing the supple suspension with its long travel.

I've driven tens of thousands of miles and across continents in them, it's only when you ask more of the things than to be a commuting and shopping trolley do you start to find hidden depths to their abilities. There's a reason they built them for so many decades - they're good.

[RayMK]

A very fair review, and you will rapidly get used to being weird.  I have not driven or even been in an Ami, but owned a 2cv6 from brand new in 1975 (my first car, after my Reliant burnt to the ground!).  ) Over 90,000 miles were covered in the 2cv6.  Many years later I bought a 2nd hand Dyane.  It was used for commuting about 56 miles per day for a couple of years.  Both were great fun and 'involving' as you said.  The gearchange becomes second nature and is a very quick shift, particularly the very useful push-pull 2nd 3rd around town.  Another peculiarity of the suspension is that if you pull up smartly while turning e.g. on a jammed roundabout, the angle of lean will stay even when stopped - until you relax the brakes and let the leading/trailing arms settle to their normal positions.  The jack on a 2cv6 is about a metre long.  I realised why when I had a puncture - unfortunately it was on a muddy track and I still couldn't get the rear wheel off the ground.  An Ami is really an executive version of the 2cv6/Dyane theme and marks you out as a man of character.  Well done with the MOT and sticking with the prior restoration.

[jonny69]

Lol, got to take the cat to the vet before work this morning. See what she thinks of the new car

 

It does understeer at speed. Letting off the throttle shifts the weight over the front and it digs back in and turns in, so I'll have to bear that in mind. I mustn't treat this like a racing car though, because it isn't one. The Anglia is for that. This is for chilling out in.

[dollywobbler]

They were designed to understeer. 20psi tyre pressure don't help so some of us like to run a little higher than that. Never more than 26 though. It's very hard to provoke the back end out!

 

Gearchange is still an H pattern, it just doesn't immediately look like it. You do get used to it and find that you can go from first to second and then to third without actually having to twist the lever.

 

Steering should feel accurate, though the enormous Ami steering wheel can make it feel otherwise.

 

Glad you're getting to enjoy it though. Very happy to see it back on the road!

[forddeliveryboy]

Almost all road cars are designed to understeer, the low front tyres pressures aren't intended to reduce grip on the front axle, rather increase it as the loads build (the low mass means that running in a straight line, there is a smaller contact patch than when braking or cornering hard). But when there is no cornering or braking load, minimal contact patch = less rolling resistance.

[dollywobbler]

I tend to find at 20psi that there's too much sidewall deflection though. S'pose I could try slowing down a bit...

[jonny69]

Can definitely feel those skinny tyres rolling under during cornering

 

Right Autoshite is back up. I had loads to say but I've forgotten all of it. Uh, cat didn't enjoy journey to or from vets. Need to fix front seat so I've ordered a big pack of those rubber bands and clips. Fuel gauge doesn't work but I'm getting a fairly consistent 30/31mpg so I can keep tabs on it easily enough.

 

I'm going to do the drive shaft gaiters so while I've got it apart I'll check the brakes. Never worked on a FWD car before, let alone with inboard brakes. Looks like a pretty horrible job but it's got to be done. There seem to be a lot of brake cylinders for the '68-on cars but not a lot out there for the earlier ones. Are they interchangeable?

 

Also: got quite a lot of clutch squeal and judder. I'm guessing this one has the solid clutch plate and carbon release 'bearing'. What's interchangeable out of these parts?

[dollywobbler]

I'd recommend joining 2CVGB. The forum is quiet these days, but the experts keep an eye out for queries. Alternatively, there's 2CV & Friends on Facebook. I'm not that clear on Sixties stuff and have never owned an A-Series with all-drum brakes.

[jonny69]

Yeah, probably not a bad idea. I've got complacent with the Ford stuff, owner's clubs and forums because I know pretty much all there is to know now!

[jonny69]

Question: are these seats out of a GS? I'm going to get rid but one of them is too good to take to the tip.

 

 

Edit: or are they late 2CV? They seem to have what look like 2CV runners.

[Bfg]

why do you think they are not original ? on Yugoslavian Ami (10th March), I posted an advert of the Ami-6 from 1967 - which show its seat backs looking the same ?

[dollywobbler]

They do look Ami ish. GS seats are more plush I think.

[barrett]

Yeah they look like Ami seats. Most Breaks had vinyl, separate seats summat like that while the Berlines mostly had benches with cloth. Somebody will have them off you I'm sure, don't chuck em!

[Bfg]

..from Yugoslavian Ami (1st March) :  "The body shells are likewise as 'Berline', 'Break' and 'Service' models,  and have very similar 'Luxe',  'Confort' or 'Club' trim specifications, including differences in headlining.  My own car was probably built as a Luxe with a bench front seat, but that has been changed to non-reclining individual seats from a 1972 'Confort'  Ami-8   (the 'Club' having reclining front seats). "

 

As I understand it ; the Ami-6 had the same model / trim designations although their seat coverings were in vinyl rather than the fabric covers of the Ami-8 and Super.  The Break (estate) model differs only insomuch as the rear seat's seat-back also folds down - whereas the Berline, whilst still qd (quickly detachable / removable) had fixed seat back frames.   The fronts were on adjustable (front/rear) runners, whether bench or individual.  oh., and I think the Club's front recliners also had elasticated map pockets to their (door) side.  

 

As quote - my own Ami-8-super-Berline, although originally to 'Luxe' trim specification (bench seats front & rear)  now has 'Confort / Berline' seats.  The fronts on individually seat runners.  However because my stature is some way off the ergonomic 90-percentile - I'd like to change them to the 'Club / Break' spec. with fronts that recline (adjustable) and the rear which folds. 

 

As an aside ; the parcel shelf on the Berline is fixed (welded in) but does nothing to support the rear seat backs.  Of course, the Break being an estate had a removable luggage cover.  Personally I'll be cutting most of my parcel-shelf out (retaining the edges which hold the rear seat belt mountings) -  so that I can pack taller items into the boot, and with the rear seat folded or removed I don't have the shelf in the way.  

 

If your front seats had been recliners then I would have been glad to relieve you of them   

[jonny69]

Well it looks like mine is a bit of a bitsa car. It had one really torn up recliner on the driver's side, a pair of those fixed brown ones, fixed front bench in red and a matching folding rear bench in red. I just went for the matching set.

 

I took a picture and made some clever-ass comment on Facebook to make myself look cool...

 

 

...and it then promptly let me down and wouldn't start. I'd checked the oil in the engine and box and then pulled the plugs to see why, when starting, it only seems to want to fire on one cylinder and can be hard to get going. Snapped one of the plugs putting it back in but had some spares from my Pop, B6HS instead of B7HS, but figured a slightly hotter plug might improve starting. Well the two plugs were obviously a bit crudded up and it wouldn't start. Swapped them this morning and it's now fine. Are the plug holes helicoiled as standard? I can see one side has a helicoil which isn't in as far as it could be.

[forddeliveryboy]

Try Denso's plugs, their quality has remained high when others have fallen. The coil could be iffy, too - originals were very tough but only survive so many ignition left on mistakes. And the cheaper replacements are pants, buy the best available.

 

If the mpg doesn't improve and you don't live in the middle of a traffic jam, there's summit up.

[dollywobbler]

Hotter plugs can be a good thing, especially if you drive hard. Like I do. Coil is a very common fail point. They do solid state ones that look like the originals and they seem well worth getting hold of. I tend to keep a spare around, just in case.

 

I do agree about the economy. 30mpg is bloody awful. Sure there isn't a leak?

[Bfg]

my own car had a mix of  green (front) & red (rear) cloth seats.  I was told the green were from 1972 Ami-8  whereas the red was the new colour for 1974.  I still think the brown ones are original for the Ami 6

[forddeliveryboy]

Cooler plugs if you drive hard - so B7HS in place of B6HS, or even B8. Citroen never revised the plug advice when unleaded fuel was introduced, they run a bit hotter on the stuff so one rating cooler is about right, I've found. The Denso equivalent of the B6HS is W20FS-U, W22FS-U is the B7HS replacement and W24 for the B8.

 

The front brakes will be much easier to do with the front wings off. Show us some pics and we'll smile at your scraped knuckles. Promise.

[dollywobbler]

Sorry, I always get plugs the wrong way around! Bigger number is what I meant.

[forddeliveryboy]

I was just wondering if it was me who had it the wrong way about - was about to double check. Bigger number doesn't apply if Bosch, though. They go t'other way.

[jonny69]

Yep, bigger number = cooler on NGK plugs. If you look at them side-by-side you see that the 'cooler' the plug, the more shrouded the electrode becomes.

 

Right, it wouldn't start this morning which ****ed me off royally. The only thing I haven't checked yet is the points. After work.

 

On the subject of 30mpg, I did feel it was a bit on the low side. I'm not convinced this engine is actually in very good nick inside. It does sound a little bit (crankcase) noisy to my ear and I'm considering swapping it out for an AM2.

 

Also: fricking ECAS checkout. I ordered some driveshaft gaiters for both sides and bands to fix the seats. I've ended up with one set of gaiters, one bag of bands and clips and a cast exhaust clamp which was from last time I logged in. Looks like the checkout didn't update properly when I clicked update with the revised numbers. Grrr.

[forddeliveryboy]

I tend to find at 20psi that there's too much sidewall deflection though. S'pose I could try slowing down a bit...

 

21 or 22psi is the max before grip starts reducing, with standard suspension, chassis and tyres. If the front end can't generate sufficient grip then the back axle can't start to grip hard, or if the structure doesn't behave correctly the grip on the front won't be translated to the back soon enough. In this case, the front end will be forced to try and do all the gripping, overloading the front tyres, causing more heel than there oughta be and creating excess understeer. It's a viscious circle.

 

Lots of late cars with chocolate suspension arms have positive camber on the front as a result of kerbing, which creates too much understeer. Aftermarket chassis make for a structure which reacts differently to torsional loads, some require more front end grip and/or greater payload before they start to grip hard through the bends. Torsional 'centres of twist' differ from the original chassis, too - welding in a cross tube in the right place can transform things.

 

Even the stiffer PO/Dyane chassis bolted under many a 2cv alters the cornering characteristics towards more understeer, being designed for more torsional load with a heavier (and stiffer) body. A car on an original chassis with good arms and tyres should be a delight through corners, darting left and right with ease and not overloading the front axle.

 

 

The only thing I haven't checked yet is the points

 

 

What's the resistance of the plugs? One with high/infinite resistance won't start a cold engine unless you're lucky, even if the other's new. NGKs of recent years seem prone to this, it's the reason I'd go for Denso. Try a spare coil, too, and swap around the LT connectors. Check the resistance/condition of the HT leads, too. If there's no smell of petrol with a non-starter, have you checked the pump? After that, check compression - it should be a minimum of 110psi cold, throttle wide open. 

 

They should start straight up at -20C, first turn of the key. They've often had a reputation for poor starting in the UK, usually down to slack servicing  and cheaply made ignition parts. Points and condensor quality is poor today, I'd fit a Boyer-Bransden box if you're going to use the car at all seriously.

[jonny69]

I'm going to start with the points, but what clever French fuck thought it was a good idea to bury them in a box behind a shroud, behind the engine fan, which you can only get off by taking off the fan casing, which it looks like you can only get off by taking the front panel off the car? Jesus.

[forddeliveryboy]

Fan should come off fairly easily, surely no need to remove the ducting? I'd say 40 minutes tops, even for a novice if you have a tea break at half time and some mechanical aptitude. But the company did design things so farmers wouldn't go adjusting/servicing it with a hammer, and it is a re-shelled 2cv - everything's less accessible.

[jonny69]

Lol. Gave it a quick check over before leaving for work this morning. It didn't want to fire initially, so I pulled a plug to have a look at the spark. It's not an amazing spark but it is there. Although I'd cranked it a few times and given it a good few pumps of the throttle, the plug was dry, but this could just be the long intake runners. What I didn't try was to throw a load of fuel down the hole to see if it makes a difference. Got a couple of fresh plugs on their way because, although these were working when I put them back in the boxes, they are still old plugs.

[Bfg]

I'd have to agree.. cold engine, long induction pipes = the fuel + water vapours condensation within the tubes.  Perhaps a little squirt of easy start - which is better atomised.?    I'd also suggest your fitting a non-return  valve in the fuel pipe within the engine bay - to prevent back siphoning to the tank and your pump running dry.  The in-line valves are cheap off ebay.   

 

And as FDB suggests ; perhaps it's also worth considering a Boyer-Bransden kit sometime soon ..to obliviate your having too much fun repeatedly fettling the points.    Having had success with these before I've bought one for my Ami 1015cc.   Are you still on 6v ?

 

If I recall ; the Ami-6 has (should have) a q.d. grille for access to the points... perhaps a couple of screws near the top outside corners and a couple of locating pins at the bottom ..if memory serves me right (it's been a long time !).  In any case the cooling shroud shouldn't need to come off.

 

However, to get the fan off ; a tall box spanner is needed. Undo the fan's bolt fully and then tap the spanner side to side within the starter dog, to dislodge the fan.   My box spanner needed it's outer corners filed off - to get it to sit right the way down inside the starter dog. 

 

NB. the rubber seal on the points-box cover needs to be in good shape to prevent ingress of fan assisted road spray !  Not sure about the Ami-6..,  but later cars have a rubber flap (two small hex-head screws holding it) over the box to help it stay dry.  Condensation within that aluminium box doesn't help starting.  

 

Contact connections on the coil are often a bit iffy (and subject to a lot of vibration) - it worth making sure they're tight. 

 

  Hope that helps,  Pete

[jonny69]

Yes, it does!. Thanks for all the helpful tips, Pete, FDB and Wollydobbler. Might try and tackle the points tomorrow lunchtime if it's dry. Let me know if you every buy a 60s Ford - I know all the tricks on those

[Bfg]

Yes, it does!. Thanks for all the helpful tips, Pete, FDB and Wollydobbler. Might try and tackle the points tomorrow lunchtime if it's dry. Let me know if you every buy a 60s Ford - I know all the tricks on those

 

"Wollydobbler"   I like that   

[forddeliveryboy]

I'm trying to fathom what makes you so sure it's the points - if the thing runs well once started and starts ok later in the day, it's more likely to be plugs/HT leads/coil. It has been bloody cold recently, try warming the plugs up on your toaster over breakfast - if they're tired, this will help. 

 

Or do what I once did one early morning in Austria when it was about -20C and I guessed a(nother) NGK had gone down (it had). Since putting the plugs on the woodstove had failed and I don't like lighting fires under engines when they're not diesels and the petrol rides along the chassis in a plaggy pipe, I popped a few splashes of petrol down the plug'ole at bdc and set light, screwing the plug back in once the flames had died. Job done.

 

Densos ever since, I've never known one fail.