Sale of Goods act - anyone been there??

[CortinaDave]

Drove down to Durham yesterday morning to buy this : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380416351152? ... 1423.l2649

 

a Saab 9-3 from a dealer for £2k.. Long story short is - 02 plate 2.0 convertible, FSH and 93k.. for just under £2k.went down with my mechanic mate who looked it over, looked all good, and they took it for an MOT There and then which it passed with no problems.

 

All was well until I got near Berwick when the oil light suddenly came on, there was a loud rattle and it stopped. Opened the bonnet - oil all down the back of the engine and the bulkhead and me stranded on the A1

 

Towed the car on the back of my mate's cortina into berwick and left it there.

 

As it was only an hour or so after sale I phoned the dealer and told him I was rejecting the car under the sale of goods act as unfit for purpose and asked for money back. After hours of wrangling he refused a refund but said he will pick the car up and have it repaired at his cost which is all he says he is responsible for. He's also said he will give me a courtesy car although I have to go pick it up from Durham which is 160 miles away from me.

 

I'm stuck without a car at the moment ( long story) and as the engine seemed fairly terminal I can see the repair dragging on for weeks , plus at least another 2 300 odd mile return trips back down which will be costing me yet more money.

 

Aside from the issue with the garage, I was due to be at work yesterday late afternoon and when I rang to say I wouldnt make it in the boss went properly mental so I really dont want to be in a position of being stuck with a lemon here and it breaking again.

 

Does anyone know if after such a short period after sale I *have* to let him repair it or can I force the issue to get money back?

[autofive]

the repair will not be weeks, they will be months - you may never see the car again

 

i would insist on rejecting it and walk away, the courtesy car is a common trick (at least it was at the place i used to work at years ago)

 

did you agree to some kind of a warranty with an outside company? if so, it will be this company who authorise repairs, using your warranty 'allowance'. They will be in no rush to authorise the repairs, and then arthur daley will be even slower to repair it. In the meantime the MOT and tax are all running, and your paying for them.

[Richard]

Definitely make a phone call to their local Trading Standards, both to ask the question and to make them aware of the issue.

[matt79]

How did you pay for the car? If you paid all of the money (or at least over £100 of the price) on a credit card then you can get the card company involved as well to get the car repaired / money refunded?

[49barndoor]

Looks like a dodger from the start did you check his feedback?

 

Looks like your not the only one who broke down on the way home after buying a car from this guy

 

Good luck with the issue I hope you fight it for your cash back

 

You could tell trading standards that you bought it from the online add as this gives you (I think) a 6 day cooling off period for internet sales only??

[wuvvum]

Don't think distance selling regs would apply here - they only apply to goods sent out by post, not collected in person, and I think there's pretty much a blanket exception for vehicles anyway.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Send him something in writing, saying something along the lines of that, in spite of the fact that you think that the car was clearly not fit for purpose, you agree to allow him a chance to inspect it with a view to getting it repaired, but that you will only allow him 3 days to diagnose the fault and come back with a written estimate of the time required for the repair, which cannot exceed another week (so 10 days in total). If he fails to comply with the above or alternatively return the money within the same timeframe, he'll get court papers in two weeks' time. Courtesy car from 160 miles away is not acceptable either. He'll either have to deliver it or cover rental costs.

[Rod/b]

Kyles and SAABs really don't seem to go together very well...

 

Ge in touch with the seller's local trading standards and see what they have to say.

[Rod/b]

Have a look at this: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... ur-rights/

 

As far as I can see if it's fair to assume that the car of the Saab's age and mileage shouldn't grenade its engine inside a day af buying from a dealer then you have good grounds and a reasonable time to reject it.

 

If I were you I'd get it rejected in writing, CC the sellers local Trading Standards Department as quickly as you can.

[freebird]

Ive been there enough times for me to have rejected two brand new cars and have them replaced.

The term you need to have locked into your brain is "merchantable quality" in other words was what you bought fit for the purpose? ( No) and could it have been reasonably expected to do the job you asked it to do ( well it fuggin should have)

The dealer is just trying to fuck you over, he will get hold of an old spunker engine for £200 odd quid through his contacts, lob it in and hope for the best ( he will still be in profit, probably) and wave you bye, bye.

The only thing i will say is that im not 110% certain with second had goods, then again, you are buying them from a trader which, basically means you have legal redress.

Send him a nice letter by recorded delivery giving him 14 days to collect the car and give you your money back or its court action time. Do NOTHING with the car, dont even lift the fuggin bonnet.

Because you are dealing with a Mickey mouse shyster, there is a better than average chance that you will have to go through the courts, maybe his local trading standards people may be able to help you?

Either way, he sold you goods not fit for the purpose and he has to refund you, you are not legally required to let him repair it. Its actually true to say, even if you did let him and you wernt happy with the repair you could still reject it!

Good luck fella.

[49barndoor]

Don't think distance selling regs would apply here - they only apply to goods sent out by post, not collected in person, and I think there's pretty much a blanket exception for vehicles anyway.

 

You are probably right on the collected in person part but about 8 years ago I was foolish enough to trust a vintage VW trader in the UK and I got my money back with the help of trading standards.

It was a 1967 VW camper imported from South Africa, The add and pics on his website did not come close to honest.

I had the camper delivered after basicly hitting the buy-it-now button and handing over £6.5k.

Had about 10 split buses after this bum deal, All other deals went well but they were private sales not dodgy dealers.

[AeroNautiCal]

Do NOT, under ANY circumstances agree to Any repairs whatsoever!

 

The reason being, that if you agree to repairs, you AUTOMATICALLY lose any right to a refund! EVER!

 

Whereas if you categorically state, in writing, by 1st Class Recorded Delivery, that you absolutely do NOT agree under ANY circumstances to the vehicle being repaired, and that you request an immediate, full refund due to the vehicle being misrepresented in the advert (listing) being unfit for purpose and it having suffered a catastrophic, mechanical breakdown on your journey home.

 

Your out of pocket expenses (to date) should also be mentioned in the letter, as well as the fact that you are incurring further out of pocket expenses due to the breakdown.

 

Perhaps put CC: (your local) Trading Standards Office, at the bottom of your letter.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Do NOT, under ANY circumstances agree to Any repairs whatsoever!

 

The reason being, that if you agree to repairs, you AUTOMATICALLY lose any right to a refund! EVER!

 

This is completely at odds with my understanding of the SOGA, but then again I am not a lawyer...

[Guest]

Do NOT, under ANY circumstances agree to Any repairs whatsoever!

 

The reason being, that if you agree to repairs, you AUTOMATICALLY lose any right to a refund! EVER!

 

This is completely at odds with my understanding of the SOGA, but then again I am not a lawyer...

 

Irrelephant.

 

How many cars do you sell a month?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Do NOT, under ANY circumstances agree to Any repairs whatsoever!

 

The reason being, that if you agree to repairs, you AUTOMATICALLY lose any right to a refund! EVER!

 

This is completely at odds with my understanding of the SOGA, but then again I am not a lawyer...

 

Irrelephant.

 

How many cars do you sell a month?

 

Fewer than Whitney Houston.

[mattblack]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

 

Unless the bloke at the garage had X-ray vision, or had just stripped and rebuilt the engine, I don't think he could be resonably expected to know it was going to go bang. By your own admision, your mechanic inspected the car and said it was OK. If he had told you it had just had recon engine in (for example) and it went bang that would be a different matter. Did the car actualy have a written warranty on it? I think anything you get sorted will be on a goodwill basis by the garage TBH

 

I think trading standards or whoever may say 'It's a 10 year old car...'

 

I'm not trying to make light of your situation BTW, if it was me I would be royaly pissed off, just trying to say that sometimes shit happens.

 

Hope you get it sorted.

[kinkersaab]

^ this. He has every right to inspect the car and at least make an attempt to make good. All the "inconvenience" stuff isnt his issue. The only responsibility he has is to make the car right. Anything more than that is goodwill.The car was £20k ish new, and now is 10 yrs old and 10th of the price. peoples views are all very one sided at these times esp when someone else is paying. I cant see what is soo unreasonable about letting the guy fix it.

[Cavcraft]

'Some of the above' but there will be a minimum (3 months I think) warranty which dealers have to offer though many pretend otherwise.

 

Be amazed if Trading Standards just say something like 'oh well, it's a 10 year old car' to be honest and would think they'd be more interested in how the car was described (make copy of advert) and whether there was any mention of a warranty NOT being offered.

My understanding of this sorry affair is that the dealer has done what they are obliged by requesting the car goes back for repair. Sadly as someone else suggested that probably means a 2nd hand engine from the scrapyard but I doubt there's much you could do about that. Its not unfeasible that the garage would say that they offered to repair the car so have done what they could to help.

I do stand to be corrected here and hope I'm wrong for your sake.

[CortinaDave]

Being honest - I genuinely don't think the guy was expecting it to go bang.. He seemed pretty reasonable both before and after the sale when I phoned to tell him it had gone pear shaped. Looks to me like the oil pump drive has gone on it which nobody could have forseen so in that sense I don't blame him.

 

BUT obviously its not fair to me that a 2 grand car only lasted an hour after the sale so I looked into it

According to the OFT guidelines if the car doesn't last a "reasonable time" after the sale to enable the buyer to have properly accepted it,then they are entitled to a full refund. There's a flowchart thing on page 28 here that is pretty clear about it...

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/report ... ft1241.pdf

 

If it lasts long enough that it is deemed to have been accepted but within a few months of the sale then all the garage has to do is fix the car without undue inconvienence to the buyer.

 

He wasn't for giving me a refund though and aparently to force the issue I'd have to have the car recovered to my home ( 100 odd miles ) at my own expense then start all the legal pain in the arse stuff to get my refund plus costs back.

 

So long and short of it is as the least grief option to me I've taken his courtesy car and agreed to let him sort it, so, met him in berwick yesterday where the saab was, he towed it away yesterday and gave me an 04 plate focus with half a tank of petrol to use while he sorts it out.

 

Says he'll phone me within three days to let me know what it needs, and get the car back to me within a fortnight so I thought - fair enough - he's doing what he can to sort out what is as crap a situation for him as it is for me. So we'll see what happens...

[whitevanman]

at least you have some transport to get to work

[Guest]

As far as Trading Standards and indeed the law is concerned, then the age, nor the price of the car matters.

 

You've now allowed him to repair the car which is jolly decent of you and likewise, he has collected the car and given you a courtesy car. You have a 6 month warranty on that car during which time any faults in the first 3 months is down to the garage.

 

If you need to go through Trading Standards (although at this point, I'd have thought not) and you need paperwork from Durham, then drop me a line via Rob or Elphick of this parish and I'll try and help you.

 

When it comes to used cars, shit happens.

[CortinaDave]

OK here's the update...

 

Went down, they were very apologetic, promised to have it fixed within a week to a fortnight at the outside and gave me a courtesy car, so i gave them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Fast forward a month... Been really hard to get hold of them - they dont respond to emails and when I call I usually get " can you call back in a bit " " i dont know whats going on " etc...

 

Finally managed to get hold of someone last Thursday who told me theyd bought a low mileage donor car and would be doing the engine swap on monday - I said id pick the car up the following sat ( this week)

 

Got palmed off all week then got someone today who said "everyone's on holiday but I dont think its ready. The donor car's an old R reg and its a different engine with a different BHP so we've been struggling to get it to fit"

 

I think I've been more than patient and now they're trying to palm me off with a different engine from a much older car. - Time to just hand it over to trading standards? Apart from anything else its a month down the line and the chance to faff about in a convertible is pretty much gone

[Mr Lobster]

I think I've been more than patient and now they're trying to palm me off with a different engine from a much older car. - Time to just hand it over to trading standards?

 

Friggin nora, that sounds like a right load of pain. But yes, get onto Trading Standards although what good it'll do I'm not sure.

 

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with a s/h engine but it'd need to be the same as the one currently fitted, fitting an older, different spec engine isn't on.

 

Good luck with it, sounds like it might be a right load of hassle. I'm sure one of the Autoshite legal experts will be along shortly though.

[CortinaDave]

Thats what I thought - I've no issue with a secondhand engine as long as its the same spec but seems unfair to put in a totally different unit from the older 900 which no doubt will cause me problems when I come to sell, and the length of time its dragging on now is really grating my cheese.

 

I really didnt want to have to be that prat that gets trading standards out, plus if I demand my money back no doubt i'll have to hand back the courtesy car while the wrangling is ongoing which could take months - and meantime im left walking, theyve got the car and my cash and ive no readies to replace it even temporarily. I really hoped they'd just fix it and get it back to me within a sensible time and that would be it.

[Mr Lobster]

Can you not then tell them that you're not happy with the older and different spec engine and that you don't want the car back and that once they give you a full refund back into your account then they can have the courtesy car back?

 

I think that'd be how I'd approach it.

[michael1703]

I think if youve got the courtesy car they wont fuck you about too much as they will want it back at some point, an 04 focus must be worth the £2k they owe you,when they say its ready, turn up at the garage without the courtesy car and test drive the saab and unless you are happy with it they dont get their courtesy car back (hide it in convenient place walking distance from their garage)

[Guest]

Tell them you've waited long enough (hell the summer is virtually over for a cabrio) and that you now want your money back. Tell them you've been onto Trading Standards, but you really cannot be arsed to go through that carry-on as you understand and appreciate they've played fair until now. Agree with them a date to drive down and collect your money when you'll then hand them the courtesy car. At this point, once they've agreed to give you your money back (cash, provided you paid them cash) I'll pick you up from the garage and I'll properly wedge you into some cheap shite. Then you'll feel properly shafted.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

What a nightmare, wheres a sale of goods act expert* when you need one?

 

Tell them to give you your money back or you're gonna just write the whole thing off as a bad do and weigh in their Focus to cheer yourself up.

[autofive]

if you get the saab back, it has less tax, MOT and an older engine reducing resale value

 

i think i would hitting them with an offer for the saab, much lower than the original sale price, to see how much faith they have in the other engine.

 

they may prefer to refund you in full (minus hire of the C.car) as a counter offer

[TimothyClaypole]

I wouldn't want it at any price with the wrong engine in it... they must be mental to even think that's a good idea.