Ford Ka - spirtual successor the Alfasud and BLMC 1100/1300

[r.welfare]

I would not kick a C6 off my driveway. Lovely. Have to be the 2.7 twinturbot dizzler, mind. Experienced that donk in an S-Type, fantastic motor and a real credit to PSA.Not sure about the rest of them, personally - I did have a Xsara 1.4 for a very short space of time (custodian of it while I punted it on to a 3rd party for a friend), seemed like a decent box but really no different from a Scrote/Ashtray/Golf which, to me, is not what Citroen is all about.Said friend had a C5 2.2HDI Exclusive, marvellous motor, like riding in a motorised DFS leather sofa. Little bits fell off all the time, but it never failed to proceed.Colleague has a P-plate 1.8 Xantia with 160k on it (ono - mileometer has long since packed in) - he's had since 6 months old and never a spot of bother. Threatens to scrap it if it fails an MOT but it never does. Has the comical "grab handle" across the passenger side of the dash - rides and drives really well. One to consider...but if I did get one, it would probably be a ZX estate. Ugly but good. TD, natch.I don't like Saxos or AXs, mainly 'cos my outsize feet (relative to the rest of me anyway - size 11) don't fit on the pedals properly.Your experience of Cit dealers, Pog, sounds like my view of the "inside". Stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap, don't care about the afterservice. This particular dealer did have some quality old Cit tat in their compound, gathering dust from some ancient £50 P/X deal no doubt - Mk1 BXs, XMs etc.I tell you what though - reading warranty claims on Land Rovers and Jags is much more fun though, I tell thee.

[Cavcraft]

Those C6 things look a right old larf but I couldn't bring myself to even contemplate the depreciation, never mind buying one and finding out the hard way.I very, very briefly had an XM 2.0CT (turbo, petrol) estate but didn't ever really use it on the road to appreciate it's all round utter madness.Citroen made some blooyd great cars over the years and were miles ahead of the game with some of their new tricks and technology. A well set up green blooded one is a joy to drive.

[AnthonyG]

Cool. .As regards Alfas I'm currently still trying to fight the urge to buy a 156, probably a two litre. They're just so sexy it'd almost be a crime not to buy one but I'm shit scared of reputation and running costs plus resales.

What kills these? - I see them now and again being breaken up with immaculate bodywork - do they have a fatal flaw like Rover's K series and the head gaskets? I read in Practical Motorist (or whatever it's called these days) that the Selespeed semi auto is an absolute 'mare and hardly ever works as it should.

[Ross_K]

Timing belt and associated gubbins are the usual things which sends the 156 to the crusher if I recall.I've thought about buying one too - 7 or 8 year old models with leather and all the bits are peanuts. I've got enough French shite to keep me spannering though

[ashmicro]

A mate of mine has a 156 2 litre, and it's never given him any bother in the 6 years he's had it. Treats it like shit too.

[MrRegieRitmo]

but if I did get one, it would probably be a ZX estate. Ugly but good. TD, natch.I don't like Saxos or AXs, mainly 'cos my outsize feet (relative to the rest of me anyway - size 11) don't fit on the pedals properly.

I have a soft spot for ZXs, especially the estate as it has a shape that reminds me of GS estates, something to do with the narrow neat, simple lines of the body with a sort of upright look to it.Never cared much for small Citroens after the age of the LNA, although I'm warming to early AXs due to rarity setting in & my habit of liking something long after it's gone out of fashion!

[pogweasel]

Heyyy, I'd almost forgotten ZX's. They're QUAL.My mate (the infamous one) had two of them back to back, the first was a fairly adequate "Aura", the second was a 16v Volcane with a turbo-technics conversion. Utterly, utterly batshit bonkers!

[Ross_K]

A turbo technics ZX? Bit rapid I'd say, as those ZXs weigh almost as much as a sardine can.Some bloke on cardomain stuck a V6 out of a 406 into one and hit 150 or 160mph. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I think the Spanish and Italian markets got a 1.1 version of the ZX.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The main problem with the 156 (and every other Alfa with the 16v TS engine) was the cambelt. They must be changed (along with the tensioners) at 36'000 miles......so Alfa GB doubled it to 72'000 to appease the fleet market with a 'visual inspection' at 36k. How the fuck do you 'visually inspect' a cambelt?So a huge proportion have broken their belts or had a belt come off following a tensioner failure. The engine gets repaired but what the mechanic doesn't know is that the top big end shells have probably fractured with the impact. So later on (could be 1000 miles, could be 20'000), the dreaded big end knock starts and that's the end of that.Also, the TS engine was quite heavy on oil and unlike the old 155, 164 and 75 there is no electronic level sensor. An equally large number have thus run low on oil and caused the shells to pick up on the crank. Again you eventually get the Ebay big end knock. 2 litres have a balance shaft and the belt for this can break if not replaced at 36k, and get tangled up with the cambelt with predictable results. the same can happen with aircon belts.Other 156 issues include rear suspension bushes and the clutch slave cylinder which is inside the bellhousing. But they're lovely cars and they're worth next to nothing now. If you can find a tidy 1.8 (AVOID SELESPEED AT ALL COSTS!!!) for a grand and get the belts done you can't really go wrong. I'm looking at getting a cheap damaged repairable, fixing it up and running it for a bit. Cambelts are not DIY unless you have the special cam locks.

[retrogeezer]

I had a 1.9i 8 valve Volcane.....fantastic car. I bought it when it was 4 years old in 1995 but low mileage, one owner. Had it for about 7 years, girlfriends mum had it for a while then my brother had it until last year. He sold it to a guy that is still driving it daily.Only ever had usual servicing, a clutch and a fuel pump. I'd have another like a shot, drove brilliantly, very anonymous - an off the shelf q-car.

[Cavcraft]

There certainly does seem to be an infinite number of 156s about with crocked engines. I did hear (but it might have been bollocks) that the 1.8 engines were quite weak.Still, the news about the cambelt and associated gear being the achilles heel isn't too disheartening as one with a proven history or one at the right price could be sorted.Even the owner's forum said to avoid the Sele-speed ones so I'm thinking a pre-2001 (cheaper tax) two litre manul in red or black would the ultimate win. The Vectra and some Saabs also have that wanky slave cylinder inside the gearbox thing arrangement I believe.Ross, I have the chance of a Mk1 BX (which needs a bit of work but nothing too major) and I'm desperately trying to clear some space here for it.Incidentally got some alloys off eGay the other day and the bloke is selling a quite tidy ZX 1.4 one owner, taxed and tested for £300. I think it's currently on the bay but if anyone wants contact details let me know. It's in Widnes, Cheshire by the way.

[Ross_K]

Ross, I have the chance of a Mk1 BX (which needs a bit of work but nothing too major) and I'm desperately trying to clear some space here for it.Incidentally got some alloys off eGay the other day and the bloke is selling a quite tidy ZX 1.4 one owner, taxed and tested for £300. I think it's currently on the bay but if anyone wants contact details let me know. It's in Widnes, Cheshire by the way.

MK1 BX. Cool. That'll surely need a bit of welding. :)The problem with me being in Ireland is that I miss all the bargains. The guy with the ZX should stick an ad on the FCF site - he might get a bite there. I can't think of anybody I know in that neck of the woods who's looking for a car just now.I can't think about buying anything in the near future - we've got twins on the way in the next month or so. If I arrived home with another motor my balls'd be removed with a rusty hacksaw. :(The next thing I get to buy's gonna be a people carrier

[Ross_K]

The main problem with the 156 (and every other Alfa with the 16v TS engine) was the cambelt. They must be changed (along with the tensioners) at 36'000 miles......so Alfa GB doubled it to 72'000 to appease the fleet market with a 'visual inspection' at 36k. How the fuck do you 'visually inspect' a cambelt?

Any chance you know WTF the 'variator' is?That's another thing I hear Alfa fans saying needs regular replacement.

[retrogeezer]

the bloke is selling a quite tidy ZX 1.4 one owner, taxed and tested for £300.

Is it just a basic one?

[fiatdaft]

You don't need any special tools to do a 156 cambelt,the variator is used on the inlet cam and uses oil pressure to alter the valve timing,if your petrol alfa or fiat sounds like a diesel,it needs replaced.

[Ross_K]

Cheers, sounds like it'll be an easy one to spot

[vicsmith]

I once gave very good money for an absolutely split-mint 156 with full history, in that strange blue/gold flip paint (factory colour, not some daft paint job), it was on my front row as the sort of "flagship" of the lot.I inexplicably left the service history in a Honda Civic that I`d been using, and sold the Civic for cash to 2 lads that were taking it far, far away, and I had no contact number for them and they never brought the book pack to me (why should they?). I never even managed to get my money back on the Alfa, that`s how much a lack of history apparently de-valued it. Of all the cars to lose the history for, eh?

[MrRegieRitmo]

The next thing I get to buy's gonna be a people carrier

Yes, but just think - you can get a Synergie! Every cloud & all that!

[Cavcraft]

the bloke is selling a quite tidy ZX 1.4 one owner, taxed and tested for £300.

Is it just a basic one?

I think so, yes. 3 door 1.4 jobbie. Has a couple of scratches but looked very good vfm. *crud: just checked seller's items and he must have sold it. I'd have had it myself but there wasn't enough money in it for me to flog on.Ross: the BX does need welding (sills I think) and door bottoms apparantly crusty but he has some spare doors by sperate negotiation. I'm not sure if he's still selling it now as he has found some garage space for it.Did you see that light blue very early Mk1 diesel on eBay a couple of months ago? Looked fantastic.I collected a rare BX (4x4 GTi) for one of the BX lads in N.Ireland a couple of months ago incidentally. Currently still on this side of the water I think awaiting repairs so he can get it back home. We got it running (it was pissing out LHM too) and drove it onto my truck. Had some sort of boy racer back box and sounded effing brilliant.

[Ross_K]

Yes, but just think - you can get a Synergie! Every cloud & all that!

GR8 4 A SPOT OV MINICABBING AT WEEKENDZ.I actually toyed with the idea briefly and looked at a few Synergie/Ulysse jobbies, but they've all got a bazillion miles on the clock. Examples with shagged electrics and fag burns on the seats are cheap, but a half decent P or R reg one with under 150,000 miles seems to cost as much as a X or Y reg Picasso. The missus' dad phoned me up a few weeks ago when he was at an auction in Glasgow to say he'd spotted an N reg Sharan, and if I wanted him to stick a bid on. I said yeah, stick on a few hundred and don't go mad. Turned out it had 300,000 miles, none of the electrics worked, and the bidding went to £1800 before everyone lost interest. God knows what reserve the seller had on it...Surely there can't be that much demand for old people carriers?

[MrRegieRitmo]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1999-CITROEN-SYNERGIE-1-9-TD-X-BLUE_W0QQitemZ320269342564QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320269342564&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1996-CITROEN-SYNERGIE-2-0-I-X-RED-7-Seater-LPG-MPV_W0QQitemZ250265925047QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250265925047&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1997-P-CITROEN-SYNERGIE-1-9-TD-LX-SILVER-ESTATE-MANUAL_W0QQitemZ220251390767QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220251390767&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[Cavcraft]

Yes, but just think - you can get a Synergie! Every cloud & all that!

GR8 4 A SPOT OV MINICABBING AT WEEKENDZ.I actually toyed with the idea briefly and looked at a few Synergie/Ulysse jobbies, but they've all got a bazillion miles on the clock. Examples with shagged electrics and fag burns on the seats are cheap, but a half decent P or R reg one with under 150,000 miles seems to cost as much as a X or Y reg Picasso. The missus' dad phoned me up a few weeks ago when he was at an auction in Glasgow to say he'd spotted an N reg Sharan, and if I wanted him to stick a bid on. I said yeah, stick on a few hundred and don't go mad. Turned out it had 300,000 miles, none of the electrics worked, and the bidding went to £1800 before everyone lost interest. God knows what reserve the seller had on it...Surely there can't be that much demand for old people carriers?

There is plenty of demand for them but don't forget half of those bids at the auction will have been off the wall, a quarter were probably privates and the rest the back street cowboys.I've had a Sharan (the shame of owning a VW was too much to bear ) TDi which had done 412,000 miles and still pulled like a train. As rough as you would expect with numerous faults and fetched £1800 on the bay. I also had a Galaxy 2.0 petrol and to be honest it was pretty bloody horrible. I'm not sure if any particular people carrier is much better than the next though the VW engine in the Sharan was bloody brilliant.Sensible money is on a Zafira as they're good cars, not too big and re-sales are phenominal. Just keep away from the shite 2.0DTi engines and avoid Sintras like a dose of the plague mixed with herpes.