On your "Marks....."

[freebird]

Anybody remember this?

It was one of the most venomous critiques I think i have ever read. Here was a car that had undergone millions of pounds of development all to replace and take Forward the Escort range and, instead, it was considered so bad by the Motor press hounds, Ford had to make some very hasty and serious changes to the car to remedy all the issues raised. Its possible, tho you may know better, its the only time i have ever seen a smug arsed major Motor builder get ripped to shreds in a few pages.

So, inspite of the changes made, was the new MK4 actually better than the MK3? Did Fords actually peak with the Mk2 Escort? Spreading the net wider, when a new model comes out to replace the existing one, is it always better?

I will give you an example. Ive owned all models of the Cavalier, a MK1 1.6GL ( early 1976 model) MK2 1.3 base, 1.6l and 2.0 CDi and a MK3 2.0 ltr SRI Ecotec.

Of the three ive owned, the clear winner for me is the MK2.

For me, Vauxhall got it all absolutely spot on. It was everything you needed in a car. It was light, nimble, all models were quick, they were comfortable and great to drive. Where as the MK1 was solid and, perhaps a bit "Germanic" and the MK3 could be perceived to be bulky and uninvolving, the MK2 WAS the daddy.

Im actually going to stick my neck out and say that it could well be the best car they made.

So, excuse the waffle but Im trying to run with the idea that maybe you all have your own preferences EG: Best Cortina, best Viva, best Victor etc, etc.

Anybody care to contribute?

[Pete-M]

My favourite Cortina is the Mk4 Ghia. The Cortina 80 restyle with the larger glass area doesn't work for me.

 

Same with the XJ6. The Series 1 was gorgeous, so was the SII, but the SIII looks all gawky because the roof line is all wrong. Don't like the SIII door handles either. Same running gear in all of 'em bar a few tweaks so the S2 is the one to have.

 

Peugeots tend to get worse looking the newer they are. 405 pretty, 406 less so, 407 gopping. Same with 205/6/7.

 

Last of the Cavaliers are better than any of the Vectroids, and don't get me started on the Insidious.

[Cavcraft]

Can't make my mind up which was my favourite Cortina, had them all except the M2. If pushed I'd say the Mk4 I suppose, really loved the clean look and the range options and they did drive well.

 

Cavaliers? Never a huge fan of the Mk1. The Mk2 was ace (especially in either early mingebag spec or facelift SRi) but I'd still prefer a Mk3 as they just felt like a much different (and better built car). The SRi (8V 130 engine) was the best for me and in early Mk3 form they were fantastic, closely followed by the 2WD GSi models.

[freebird]

Ive driven loads of MK 1&2 Cortinas and owned MK3 and 4/5s and my vote goes to the MK3. Something about them, loved the styling then, do now. I only ever had 2.0ltr ones, XL and 2000E and thought they were supremely comfortably and the overly soft suspension ( id agree with that) gave a lovely wafting ride, yet, if you were used to them you could still chuck them about. The Mk4/5 were good but "efficient" good as opposed to " I really want to drive it" good.

Loved the MK1, you can see just why its still loved now and the MK2 was really on a hiding to nothing trying to replace something that was brilliant in its day and still competent now.

[Shep Shepherd]

In my opinion, the mark 2 Cavalier is the best Cavalier of all, as Vauxhall managed to get it right in virtually all respects from day one:

 

[HBR]

Ford learned their lesson with the mk4 (or is it 5? Depends whether you count the reskinned mk3 face lift as a new model, many do) & when they launched the Mondeo Autocar ran the headline "Mondeo is King"

 

For me it's the mk2 Golf that hits the spot, the Mk1 was good enough in its own right but the mk2 just feels more complete. They've not managed to produce a Golf as right since, I've got a mk4 & it's good in many ways but I feel non of the satisfaction of ownership I got from my mk2, I'd trade it for a mk3 or 4 Polo no bother, they seem to be closer to what the mk2 Golf was now.

[chaseracer]

Back in the day, before they moved into the 'discounted-finance chod wilderness years', Citroen seemed to be adept at taking a good design and 'updating' it with maximum clumsiness, usually involving industrial quantities of grey plastic.

 

Exhibit A1: GS

 

Exhibit A2: GSA

 

Exhibit B1: early CX

 

Exhibit B2: later CX

 

Exhibit C1: early Visa

 

Exhibit C2: later Visa

 

I may be wrong about the Visa...

[Timewaster]

In my opinion, the mark 2 Cavalier is the best Cavalier of all, as Vauxhall managed to get it right in virtually all respects from day one.

 

*Ahem! Change the camshaft at the first service. And again at the third!

 

Fiat also do terrible facelifts, but you can do your own google image trawling.

[Fat_Pirate]

When the Mk4 Escort first arrived, I went along with a friend for a test drive (it was a mid-spec saloon). The ride and refinement were inferior to my Mk3 Capri, it was shocking. When I told the salesman this, he mumbled something about it having other strengths, then played a cassette that enthusiastically extolled all the engineering improvements.

 

I have to disagree with the Mk2 Cav comments, the 1st-generation Mk3 was the sweet spot. It replaced the often hideous interior (unforgivable orange and mildew green) with clean functionality, and at least hid that horrible broomstick-style gearlever.

[eddyramrod]

Cortinas Mk3-5 were superb. They were "replaced" by Sierras, dumpy shit not fit to lick the tyretracks of the Tinas. All the versions I've had my hands on were 2.0, so I think the comparisons are valid. (ISTR saying all this before in another thread, or possibly several.)

 

Marina Mk1? Almost good enough, for the time. Mk2? Too little really, but hardly ugly; just a matter of tinkering. Mk3? Getting old now and really not suiting those heavy bumpers... Ital? Ugh. The Allegro suffered the bumper syndrome too.

 

Fiestas! Mk1, brilliant, modelled on the Fiat 127 which was the class leader back then, and outclassed it handsomely. But look at what that beautiful baby has become. Oh dear.

 

Hillman Super Minx, here's a left-field candidate! Early ones, with the Sceptre/PA style rear window, lovely. Comfy and stylish, a big step up for the family man in 1963. But look out, suddenly it's 1965 and there's a facelift, which seem to consist of a new, square-cut rear window arrangement. It never quite worked for me.

 

Speaking of the gorgeous Vauxhall PA: I think that's one facelift that actually DID work. The arched bonnet and single-piece rear screen, both introduced for 1960, completed the shape the car always should have been. What a pity that for 1961 Vauxhall saw fit to bin those lush oval tail-lights, and the indicators in the fin ends.

[ashmicro]

As for major manufacturers being torn a new one, how about this from CAR.

 

 

 

 

and the infamous article entitled "How Toyota spoiled the new MR2", printed right opposite an advert for the same car.

[Albert Ross]

Mk1 Fiesta. Signal Yellow.

Mk3 Escort. Terracotta.

Mk1 Sierra. Crystal Green.

Mk2 Granada. Tuscan Beige.

Mk1 Focus. Aquafrost.

Mk1 Astra. Light Green.

Mk2 Cavalier. White.

Series 2a (1968-71 Headlamps in wings) Land Rover, normal control models. Mid Grey.

Mk1 Discovery. White.

Range Rover 1970-95. (I refuse to call it the Classic!) Sahara Beige

Mk1 Volvo 343/5, preferably Gold with reflective bumper tape.

I could go on.

[Negative Creep]

As for major manufacturers being torn a new one, how about this from CAR.

 

 

 

 

and the infamous article entitled "How Toyota spoiled the new MR2", printed right opposite an advert for the same car.

 

Was the Golf mk.3 in general not regarded as a step back from the mk.2? Still a good chance of seeing a clean mk.2 around, whereas the mk.3s that remain look completely fucked

[Lufthansa-Terminal]

Allthough not 100% as thread title can I just say that a late Peugeot 405 is better than any 406.