Brand new shite V brand new shite ( Bini v 500~ski)

[overheadvalve]

A new thread so as to keep the Ebay thread clean~er....bit late i know but better late than etc etc.

I can see why people dislike the new Mini, the old one was all about accesible motoring and the new one takes the looks of the old one and turns it into a really quite expensive (for what it is) fashion accessory.

Of course this all probably seems a bit rich coming from someone who owns a new 500. But I'll say this about the 500, if I was to spec a Mini up exactly the same, I think the difference in cost ends up being something ridiculous like 5k. The Mini is almost certainly a better car on balance, but it's not worth as much more as they charge you.

Again each to her/his own. If someone likes a Mini and want to spend their money on it then who am I to argue?

 

New 500 looks ace. A white Abarath one would be a hoot I reckon.

Yes.

Until you try and take a corner. Then all you get is a flurry of wheelspin and \ or understeer (on the faster bends) for your trouble. I'll wait for FD to turn up and tell me I can't drive for shit.

Completely agree. I really like my 500, but the suspension is shit, properly shit. Sometimes going over those little ripples @ 40mph going into a 40mph zone the rear wheels lose contact with the ground. It's a bit better on the Abarth, but anyone who's driven a decent hot hatch always comments on how a proper French hot hatch is better.

Nice to see a non-BNW one fiatdaft!

Quite, however i find that the new FIAT is (trying to be) just the same as the new MINI, it's hellishly expensive when you take into account the fact that it's made in Poland and the labour rates in Poland are less than in this country where the new MINI is made.

Is the suspension poor on any new small car because there are too many bits of tat like airbags and other modern shite bolted or welded into them?

And made in the same factory,but the fords based on the fiat.

For real? No messin? should at least mean they'll rot like a Fiat should.

Galvanised

Panda platform is 8 years old now and I've not seen a single instance of a non-crash damaged Panda having any rot See loads of newer previous model Ka's rusting though!

Aye,

I do think that both manufacturers could have done a much better job of them and i would still rather drive my old Rover 400, it's just more of a car and when i drive it i feel i can laugh at all those people in chintzy MINI's, Audi's and new cars in general.

 

Edit: Iedited it, it read as though i actually liked the Bini, i don't! :/

I suppose it's not really a thread for Autoshite really, let it die then please.

[ashmicro]

Re the 500/Ka. ISTR that Fiat hads some sort of development deal going with GM on the platform for the car. GM dropped out at the last minute, and Ford jumped in? Or maybe my mind is playing tricks, but I think that was in CAR.

[fiatdaft]

The ford uses fiat parts,no ford parts in the 500.

 

And i don't think £139 per month is hellishly expensive for a brand new car.

[overheadvalve]

Re the 500/Ka. ISTR that Fiat hads some sort of development deal going with GM on the platform for the car. GM dropped out at the last minute, and Ford jumped in? Or maybe my mind is playing tricks, but I think that was in CAR.

iirc, FIAT did have a deal with GM, then GM pulled out and as part of the deal they paid FIAT a fortune, to get out?

Yes i think your right.

[504GL]

Re the 500/Ka. ISTR that Fiat hads some sort of development deal going with GM on the platform for the car. GM dropped out at the last minute, and Ford jumped in? Or maybe my mind is playing tricks, but I think that was in CAR.

 

That's nothing to do with the Panda IIRC The Panda is 110% Fiat

[504GL]

The ford uses fiat parts,no ford parts in the 500.

 

And i don't think £139 per month is hellishly expensive for a brand new car.

 

It is when at the end of it you don't own it! Never understood the point of PCP finance tbh, unless you pay the balloon payment you may as well just put your money in a pile and burn it.

[Cavcraft]

Only connections I can recall between Fiat and GM were that a) the 1.9CDTi engine is (allegedly) a Fiat lump and when GM decided to stop giving cars away to BSM (as part of a cost cutting measure) Fiat jumped in.

Fiatdaft: That's a good price for a new car but as 504 said you never really won it unless you make the end payment, though I can see why people do it.

[fiatdaft]

Do you think that many people who take finance keep the car until the end of the agreement?

[504GL]

Only connections I can recall between Fiat and GM were that a) the 1.9CDTi engine is (allegedly) a Fiat lump and when GM decided to stop giving cars away to BSM (as part of a cost cutting measure) Fiat jumped in.

Fiatdaft: That's a good price for a new car but as 504 said you never really won it unless you make the end payment, though I can see why people do it.

 

Whilst on one hand I see why people do it, on my other ten hands I can't see the point.

 

In 10 months we own our 500 outright. If you're on PCP then unless you pay that balloon payment that money is completely gone. The sorts of people who buy on PCP generally buy because of paranoia about the fact that the car has to go through an MOT @ 3 years and that's going to be costly etc etc. I'm sure that whenever our 500 goes to the scrappers it'll have costed a lot less than having a PCP deal over the same term.

 

Fiat did have some deal with GM (can't remember what the terms were exactly) and GM wanted out and had to pay Fiat zillions in penalties. 159 is based on a GM platform and the current V6 is a GM lump with Alfa heads. Grande Punto and MiTo share their platform with the Corsa.

[504GL]

The suspension on the 500 is shit because Fiat just had no idea. The rear beam is quite soft, so they upped the spring rates, fitted some dampers which are too soft and can't control the springs and fitted the same bumpstops as the Panda which leave the car with sod all travel before the car hits the bumpstops.

 

All this combines to make a car which has rear suspension which can be made to bottom out during everyday driving. The springs are far too stiff for the dampers and there is very little damping control and the springs just oscillate wildly at the back. All the convertibles, Abarth's and 2010+ cars are fitted with a better rear beam, but they're still not class leading in terms of handling. Tbh the suspension on my car (a 2009) is unacceptable and verging on dangerous. What's annoying is that any idiot who drives the car on a road that's a little bumpy would notice the crap body control. I'm sure it can't have been that difficult to develop some slightly shorter bumpstops and work out a decent spec for the dampers.

 

I agree that the 500 is expensive. We bought ours on scrappage and would never have paid full price, it's just far too much for a small car even if it is nicer inside than your typical cheap crap! Prices have gone up by over a grand since we ordered ours in May 2009 which is just silly. Residuals are pretty good though which balances it out a little.

 

Fiatdaft probably won't like this, but I also think the Abarth is massively overpriced. It's a lot of money to pay for a 500 which has essentially just had a t-jet engine from a Punto, a different 'box, different bumpers and a body kit added.

 

The Ka is definitely build in Poland in the Fiat factory along with the Panda and 500

[tonedepear]

Does the new Ka have proper suspension?

[dollywobbler]

What I really don't like about the 500 is that the rear head restraints appear to be resting on the rear window!

 

That said, the new 500 is a beautiful looking thing and for that reason, is much more successful than the BINI. The BINI wasn't bad first time around, but then the Germans insisted on making it look like a frog. Then inflated it to make a 4x4 which is about as attractive from behind as Bella Emberg.

[504GL]

Do you think that many people who take finance keep the car until the end of the agreement?

 

Of course not. A lot of those people probably get rid just as quick.

 

Why buy a car that you're going to be "sick of" after 3 years though? I guess if people didn't then it wouldn't mean cheap cars for others......

 

If you want to see the effect that people holding onto new cars has on the cost of a used car then have a look at the prices of used cars in Australia.

 

For instance...... cheapest 406 in Australia is $1200 (£740) and in the UK you can get a newer one for £450 with less mileage.....

 

Have a look on here at the price of stuff that is mega cheap in the UK. People keep newer cars for far longer in Australia and it means that you just don't get the ridiculously priced cars which are only a few years old.

http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automotive/Browse

[504GL]

What I really don't like about the 500 is that the rear head restraints appear to be resting on the rear window!

 

That said, the new 500 is a beautiful looking thing and for that reason, is much more successful than the BINI. The BINI wasn't bad first time around, but then the Germans insisted on making it look like a frog. Then inflated it to make a 4x4 which is about as attractive from behind as Bella Emberg.

 

The rear head restraints don't hit the rear window in normal use, that said, a few people have inexplicably kept the head restraints in when putting a child seat in and have rubbed the heating elements off

 

IMHO the best thing about the 500 is the interior. For what is still a relatively cheapish car they did make an effort to make it not feel completely bargain basement and nasty inside.

 

 

Does the new Ka have proper suspension?

 

All the Ka's have the better suspension yes

[ashmicro]

^^ nice!

[Alexg]

Do you think that many people who take finance keep the car until the end of the agreement?

 

Of course not. A lot of those people probably get rid just as quick.

 

Why buy a car that you're going to be "sick of" after 3 years though?

 

Customers want the piece of mind a new car can provide. PCP deals make this affordable and continuous.

[504GL]

Do you think that many people who take finance keep the car until the end of the agreement?

 

Of course not. A lot of those people probably get rid just as quick.

 

Why buy a car that you're going to be "sick of" after 3 years though?

 

Customers want the piece of mind a new car can provide. PCP deals make this affordable and continuous.

 

Yes, the peace of mind which comes with buying modern cars where pennies are cut everywhere.

 

This breather pipe went twice on our car before Fiat changed the spec and replaced it with a silicone pipe which won't split

 

This pipe has also cracked twice and the bit of the airbox where it goes onto has snapped off twice now, it's going in for its second airbox on Friday.

 

Seriously, this car has gone through 2 airboxes under warranty!!!!!! The bushes on the rear dampers go and they quite often fail their first MOT for it, if you put some poly bushes in then it's only a couple of years till rust kills the dampers anyway. Our Subaru's dampers are getting on for 18 years old now and have 220k+ miles on them and went through the MOT fine last month. Droplinks on the front go too but at least they're cheap and you can buy aftermarket bits, balljoints on the wishbones go and the whole wishbone goes in the bin because the balljoint is integrated into the wishbone.

 

Now I think the 500 is poor in terms of the durability of the suspension, but it's very rare to hear of a new car that doesn't have some kind of issue or myriad of design faults which cause it to go in under warranty for things that most of the shite on here never have issues with because they were built to a standard and not a price.

 

Sure a car on PCP seems cheap up front, but you end up paying for it for longer and just because it's new doesn't guarantee that it's not going to have any issues. I can think of so many more interesting and useful things to be doing with my money than perpetually paying for a car I never own just so I can have a warranty and a new plate.

[Guest]

Do you think that many people who take finance keep the car until the end of the agreement?

 

I did, because I can't be arsed going through the whole process again only to be treated like shit if things go wrong with whatever new car I'd buy, again.

 

At least the car now behaves properly and can drive down a road without shaking itself to pieces. Most of that stemmed from the fact that the garage tried (four times) to balance the wheels, had me pay for the work each time (even under warranty), argue with me when I said it was wrong and lo and behold - wheels still out of balance.

 

Then there's the comedy wheel bearing \ front brake disc issue (4 goddamn wheel bearings, with disc, at £148 + VAT a pop) which they refused to help me with ('You've been thrashing the car, fuck off') And the trim. ('You've broken it, fuck off') Which they refused to help me with. And the wipers. ('They do that. Fuck off') Which they refused to help me with. Still wanted my money every month though - charming guys. All the while, the car's depreciating and I'm paying the finance at the same rate. Threatened them with Trading Standards, vehicle not fit for purpose, planting it through the showroom window, etc, etc - they couldn't have cared less. Where's your money? You owe us money. See this warranty? We're not helping you. PSA say we don't have to help you. There's the door. Fuck off.

 

When it comes to change the car, I'll get something I can buy outright. Or if I can't buy the car outright at the time, I'll save up.

 

If you had had the experience I did, would you say £xxx is a fair price to pay a month, or that financing yourself up to the spuds for a new car is a good idea? You can disagree all you want, but you're lying. It's hellishly expensive for what it is, and upsetting. Really, really upsetting.

 

The hilarious thing now is that I actually like the car, you know, because it works properly. That's all I ever wanted it to do.

[Guest]

Hey 504GL, at least Fiat:

 

1. Admit parts on their cars go wrong

2. Will replace said parts under warranty.

 

Getting Citroen to admit either of these things was like trying to tell SCTSH_ANDY he's wrong about seatbelts.

A lad who I used to work with bought a new DS3 18 months ago (despite me telling him at least 17,000 times not to) and he's now getting stonewalled with warranty issues, so its not just me. I seem to remember several issues of CAR magazine in the 90's complaining about the same thing.

 

FD, while I admit that perhaps my experience isn't indicative of the entire new car industry, it has made me extremely wary. Mostly of PSA stuff and Arnold Clark. Urrghhh (shudders).

[504GL]

Do you think that many people who take finance keep the car until the end of the agreement?

 

I did, because I can't be arsed going through the whole process again only to be treated like shit if things go wrong with whatever new car I'd buy, again.

 

At least the car now behaves properly and can drive down a road without shaking itself to pieces. Most of that stemmed from the fact that the garage tried (four times) to balance the wheels, had me pay for the work each time (even under warranty), argue with me when I said it was wrong and lo and behold - wheels still out of balance.

 

Then there's the comedy wheel bearing \ front brake disc issue (4 goddamn wheel bearings, with disc, at £148 + VAT a pop) which they refused to help me with ('You've been thrashing the car, fuck off') And the trim. ('You've broken it, fuck off') Which they refused to help me with. And the wipers. ('They do that. Fuck off') Which they refused to help me with. Still wanted my money every month though - charming guys. All the while, the car's depreciating and I'm paying the finance at the same rate. Threatened them with Trading Standards, vehicle not fit for purpose, planting it through the showroom window, etc, etc - they couldn't have cared less. Where's your money? You owe us money. See this warranty? We're not helping you. PSA say we don't have to help you. There's the door. Fuck off.

 

When it comes to change the car, I'll get something I can buy outright. Or if I can't buy the car outright at the time, I'll save up.

 

If you had had the experience I did, would you say £xxx is a fair price to pay a month, or that financing yourself up to the spuds for a new car is a good idea? You can disagree all you want, but you're lying. It's hellishly expensive for what it is, and upsetting. Really, really upsetting.

 

The hilarious thing now is that I actually like the car, you know, because it works properly. That's all I ever wanted it to do.

 

I know the feeling. The leather in the drivers seat was sagging and wrinkling after not that long. To be honest the dealership was completely right to say "It's not something we can authorise, please talk to Fiat" the guy my case got assigned to at Fiat was a complete cnut however, I was stood in a Fiat showroom whilst the car was up the road in the service area getting some photos taken of the seat after I'd been ****ed around quite a bit and the moron starts shouting down the phone at me. I hung up on the twat, wrote a snotty email to customer service and then after a couple of phonecalls to a more reasonable person, the leather and the cushion got replaced and it's fine now.

 

The pricing of services is ridiculous as well. They wanted £200 for the first one so I supplied my own genuine parts and paid £130 all up and they wanted £495 for the second service Cost to me? £270.

 

I think the purchase and ownership of a new car can be one of the most stressful things you can do. That is unless you're mongishly willing to hand the car over and willingly pay rather inflated prices for servicing and hope they use the right grade of oil etc etc. Then again if you're on PCP why bother whether it's being serviced properly? When the tyres wear out go to the tyre shop and pay MIchelin tyres for something random like a Triangle or Tigar tyre and pass their poorly maintained near new car onto some other sucker.

 

Ignorance is bliss I guess

[504GL]

Hey 504GL, at least Fiat:

 

1. Admit parts on their cars go wrong

2. Will replace said parts under warranty.

 

Getting Citroen to admit either of these things was like trying to tell SCTSH_ANDY he's wrong about seatbelts.

A lad who I used to work with bought a new DS3 18 months ago (despite me telling him at least 17,000 times not to) and he's now getting stonewalled with warranty issues, so its not just me. I seem to remember several issues of CAR magazine in the 90's complaining about the same thing.

 

FD, while I admit that perhaps my experience isn't indicative of the entire new car industry, it has made me extremely wary. Mostly of PSA stuff and Arnold Clark. Urrghhh (shudders).

 

Arnold Clark, there's your problem!

 

So many people on fiatforum have issues with them......

 

When it came to my seat I still had to threaten them with taking them to a small claims court, considering the fact that I knew they'd replaced other seats with less sagging and wrinkling and the fact that I told them I could produce case numbers and photos of the damage to other seats left them in a slightly difficult position!

[Pete-M]

Hey 504GL, at least Fiat:

 

1. Admit parts on their cars go wrong

2. Will replace said parts under warranty.

 

Getting Citroen to admit either of these things was like trying to tell SCTSH_ANDY he's wrong about seatbelts.

A lad who I used to work with bought a new DS3 18 months ago (despite me telling him at least 17,000 times not to) and he's now getting stonewalled with warranty issues, so its not just me. I seem to remember several issues of CAR magazine in the 90's complaining about the same thing.

 

FD, while I admit that perhaps my experience isn't indicative of the entire new car industry, it has made me extremely wary. Mostly of PSA stuff and Arnold Clark. Urrghhh (shudders).

 

Arnold Clark, there's your problem!

 

So many people on fiatforum have issues with them......

 

Arnie Clarks are a disaster area. You're trying to get Porridge Wogs to pay for things. Never gonna happen. Go to another Citroen garage and get them to put it right. There are some half-decent Citroen garages out there.

 

I don't think new cars are necessarily a bad thing. Everything any of us drive was at some point a new car and lots of them are still working occasionally.

 

The biggest problem I've found with dealerships tends to be service managers who don't have a clue what they're doing, don't want to do warranty work as it cuts down the service department profit at the end of the month which in turn cuts the service managers bonus. This leads to shite service managers keeping their job and good service managers being sacked or skint. Alfa Romeo service managers are regarded as the cream of the crop because they never fix anything, ever but they demand the latest funked up Alfa to go home in. Skoda ones are tainted because they automatically get things fixed. Mercedes ones will find work that needs doing and tell you it's up to you as you'll have to pay for it as it's not covered under warranty.

[504GL]

Arnie Clarks are a disaster area. You're trying to get Porridge Wogs to pay for things. Never gonna happen. Go to another Citroen garage and get them to put it right. There are some half-decent Citroen garages out there.

 

I don't think new cars are necessarily a bad thing. Everything any of us drive was at some point a new car and lots of them are still working occasionally.

 

The biggest problem I've found with dealerships tends to be service managers who don't have a clue what they're doing, don't want to do warranty work as it cuts down the service department profit at the end of the month which in turn cuts the service managers bonus. This leads to shite service managers keeping their job and good service managers being sacked or skint. Alfa Romeo service managers are regarded as the cream of the crop because they never fix anything, ever but they demand the latest funked up Alfa to go home in. Skoda ones are tainted because they automatically get things fixed. Mercedes ones will find work that needs doing and tell you it's up to you as you'll have to pay for it as it's not covered under warranty.

 

Porridge wog I've never heard that before

 

It is sad when things go this way. I'm sure a lot of people would happily pay more up front for a car that was designed and built a bit better so it never had to go into the stealers or if it did have to go in, they did a good job and didn't treat you like crap. To be fair to my dealer (Slaters Fiat/VW/Skoda/Vauxhall/Citroen/ovloV) they've actually been really good. Family run business though, so I suspect customer care is a little higher up their list of priorities than Arnies.

[maxpower]

Do you think that many people who take finance keep the car until the end of the agreement?

 

I did, because I can't be arsed going through the whole process again only to be treated like shit if things go wrong with whatever new car I'd buy, again.

 

At least the car now behaves properly and can drive down a road without shaking itself to pieces. Most of that stemmed from the fact that the garage tried (four times) to balance the wheels, had me pay for the work each time (even under warranty), argue with me when I said it was wrong and lo and behold - wheels still out of balance.

 

Then there's the comedy wheel bearing \ front brake disc issue (4 goddamn wheel bearings, with disc, at £148 + VAT a pop) which they refused to help me with ('You've been thrashing the car, fuck off') And the trim. ('You've broken it, fuck off') Which they refused to help me with. And the wipers. ('They do that. Fuck off') Which they refused to help me with. Still wanted my money every month though - charming guys. All the while, the car's depreciating and I'm paying the finance at the same rate. Threatened them with Trading Standards, vehicle not fit for purpose, planting it through the showroom window, etc, etc - they couldn't have cared less. Where's your money? You owe us money. See this warranty? We're not helping you. PSA say we don't have to help you. There's the door. Fuck off.

 

When it comes to change the car, I'll get something I can buy outright. Or if I can't buy the car outright at the time, I'll save up.

 

If you had had the experience I did, would you say £xxx is a fair price to pay a month, or that financing yourself up to the spuds for a new car is a good idea? You can disagree all you want, but you're lying. It's hellishly expensive for what it is, and upsetting. Really, really upsetting.

 

The hilarious thing now is that I actually like the car, you know, because it works properly. That's all I ever wanted it to do.

 

i had same problem wat when i bought a brand new escort in 1989 from ford's after months of arguing about problems with the car i went to local trading standards office and the guy there told me the warranty that they had the cheek to charge me £148 for wasn't worth the paper it was written on

they said it entitled the mechanic to open up the bonnet, have a look but not to repair it.. i would have to pay for repairs!! though when i bought a mazda 2, new in 2003 there was no problems at all with warranty, so i guess it was the ford promise "we sell you shit cars whilst ripping you off"

[Cavcraft]

Slaters do have a good rep indeed. Remember chatting to one of their service managers once and he was telling me about a 9 (or so) month old car they'd sold coming in because a front window wouldn't go down.

They pulled the trim the trim off and discovered the car had been involved in an accident and bodged up. Rather than keep schtum they told the customer, gave them a courtesy car before eventually finding a similar motor and giving them a decent bit of cash back for the hassle.

[504GL]

Slaters do have a good rep indeed. Remember chatting to one of their service managers once and he was telling me about a 9 (or so) month old car they'd sold coming in because a front window wouldn't go down.

They pulled the trim the trim off and discovered the car had been involved in an accident and bodged up. Rather than keep schtum they told the customer, gave them a courtesy car before eventually finding a similar motor and giving them a decent bit of cash back for the hassle.

 

Yeah I've never really felt that they've not been up front with me, they even told me when the airbox needed replacing even though I wasn't even aware of it because it was against the firewall.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The ford uses fiat parts,no ford parts in the 500.

 

And i don't think £139 per month is hellishly expensive for a brand new car.

 

No it's not, but what kind of dipper do you need?

 

I bought a new Ka in 1999 - £1000 down and £128 a month.Even then it was silly cheap motoring.

 

I'd have a 500 over a MINI like a shot. The MINI was sort of interesting 10 years ago, but now it's a fat arsed cliche that needs optioning up to avoid being dismal. The 500 is appealing even in it's absolute bog basic form. I'm assuming you can still get one for eight grand.

 

Oh, and the new Ka looks ridiculous. They've lost all the charm and funkiness out of the original. They don't sell* anything like as well either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Or rust.

[fiatdaft]

£139 down

 

£139 per month .

 

Hurry ends soon !

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

£139 down

 

£139 per month .

 

Hurry ends soon !

 

Jesus.

 

It's no wonder used car dealers can't sell anything.

 

"It's a deal, it's a steal, it's sale of the fucking century".

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

With regard to Arnold Clark......

 

 

Every week, two transporters of Arnold Clark rusty crap comes down here to Notts Mannheim auctions. You should see the state of it. There was a V plate Ka with literally NO outer sill on one side. It had rusted clean off.