Converting a Defender from V8 to 200Tdi

[garethj]

Can it be done?

 

As I browse ebay for overpriced noisy rustboxes, knowing that the snowy weather is at least 5 winters away, I’ve noticed that the V8s are least likely to fetch good money. Perhaps because petrol is stupidly expensive and they only do 12mpg, but I’m no economist.

 

When I search the Land Rover forums for “200Tdi conversion V8†everyone’s doing it the other way around to get the lovely V8 warble, fucked camshafts, rubbish carbs etc. Does anyone know if it’s straightforward to put a 200Tdi in a V8? Does the engine have to come from a Defender, or can it be an even more rusty Discovery?

[Rod/b]

I know someone who binned the broken V8 out of a classic Rangie and replaced it with a TD5, including adapting the fly-by-wire throttle pedal assembly so it sat under the bonnet and operated from the standard accelerator cable.

 

So I can't see why not...

[scruff]

There’s a few ways of doing it. If you are starting with a factory V8 you’ll need to cut and weld stuff, it’s not really a bolt-in affair as the Tdi won't bolt up to the gearbox (Zeus do an adapter kit for £££).

 

The easiest way IMHO is to get the complete drivetrain from a Disco and drop it in. If you sit the Disco gearbox on the existing gearbox mounts the engine will sit in roughly the same place as the V8 or a factory 300Tdi, which makes running pipework etc that little bit easier. The propshafts will all fit this way too. You’ll need to weld new engine mounts in place on the chassis, there is a fella who sells templates but I can’t find the link at the moment. The only problem with using the Disco gearbox is that the gear lever will be where the middle seat/cubby box is. If you go this route you need a Disco/RR lump as the injector pump on the (usually overpriced, and fucked) Defender 200Tdis will hit the power steering box. Offset the cost/fuckabout factor by selling the V8 and the gearbox; if it's an LT85 Santana gearbox they go for good money. If it's a 110 keep the transfer box though as the Disco one will be too much for it no matter what people say.

 

Or, find a four-cylinder that’s been converted to V8 and a 200Tdi will drop straight in (more or less). Steve Parker does full hose kits/exhaust kits but it can get expensive.

 

If it was me I'd forget the LR Tdis, they are good, but not as good as people make them out to be. Japanese diesels are superb and there's a glut of rotten Range Rovers with once-expensive Mazda, Isuzu, Nissan etc TD conversions and fitting kits, all of which will drop straight into a V8 90 or 110 with, joy of joys, no welding or moving mounts etc. Get an auto one and it'll slot straight in and use the existing transfer box. A good friend of mine has a 110 with a 3.5 Mazda lump; it came out of a shagged RR and it's incredible. Same mpg as a Tdi but faster, quieter, more reliable etc etc..

 

If you fancy a 110 van with a very nice Nissan turbo diesel conversion I know of one in need of a home, £1,500…

[richardthestag]

LPG the V8 and enjoy it single point closed loop setup is available dirt cheap from tinleytech .

 

don't bother with cheapo e-bay kits

 

or like they said ^^ buy a rotton dizzla disco and transfer the bits.

 

move the RV8 on via the bay and sell it to a kit car or sherpa sports enthusiast

[Station]

Sounds like a lot of work.

Get a Suzuki Vitara Wideboy instead.

[scooters]

naaaa - you want a Shitetrak mate!

 

Seriously though, are the MPGs gonna be THAT better in a defender with the 200tdi? Would not LPG be easier, cheaper and easier on the pocket in the long run with the added fun of having a V8

[richardthestag]

Sounds like a lot of work.

Get a Suzuki Vitara Wideboy instead.

 

 

[scruff]

I must admit I wouldn't bother especially on a "cheap" Defender.

 

I had a 3.9 V8 110 on gas and it did 10mpg on LPG and 15-17 on petrol. The 200Tdis do about 25-27 in the real world (lots of people claim more - they are lying). When I had mine a few years ago gas was a lot cheaper mind you. Get one with a jap engine or an old Series, you'll always be able to sell them on and not lose money.

[Pete-M]

S'funny, I've always done the opposite conversion. Bin the nasty diseasel and chuck a nice V8 in.

 

LPG it (tons of room for gas tanks), or sell it to someone who wants a Landy which runs on the correct fuel. Don't ruin it with a diseasel.

 

Range Rover transfer box is a good idea on the V8, makes them a lot more relaxed on the motorway.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

What if you just want an economical workhorse that's easy to tinker with? Diesel wins.

 

Japanese diesels are superb and there's a glut of rotten Range Rovers with once-expensive Mazda, Isuzu, Nissan etc TD conversions and fitting kits, all of which will drop straight into a V8 90 or 110 with, joy of joys, no welding or moving mounts etc. Get an auto one and it'll slot straight in and use the existing transfer box. A good friend of mine has a 110 with a 3.5 Mazda lump; it came out of a shagged RR and it's incredible. Same mpg as a Tdi but faster, quieter, more reliable etc etc..

 

My boss's 130 has a Mazda SL35 atmo in it, they're derived from a Perkins design so sound like most of the tractors in the world. That engine is a great torquey slogger though and mega reliable. It's not that slow either, it'll do 80MPH+ happily on the flat.

An SL35TI would be most pleasing, they're quicker than a V8, but I've heard they suffer transmission breakages due to the masses of torque available low down.

[Pete-M]

Chap near my work is still trying to flog that Mazda 3.5 diseasel powered Rangie. It's very tidy, but he's not had anyone interested in over a year.

 

Tis bloody slow and unrefined compared to a V8, but that's what happens when you shove a bloody big four pot diesel where a V8 should be.

 

Funny, if he binned the Mazda lump and put the V8 back in, it'd be about a £3k Rangie. He's been asking half that for a year.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

Is it turbo intercooled? I have a PDF which claims they're a bit quicker than a V8, especially through the gears.

[scruff]

Is it an NA Pete? The turbo/intercooled SLTi ones are fuckin rapid. Not as many horses as a 3.9 but 260lb/ft of torque. Leonard is right about gearbox munching though, my pal's on his third in 12 months - it does work hard and he has been used secondhand boxes mind.

 

I love Rover V8s and I had a lot of fun with the ones I've had, but if you want a workhorse a smelly old diesel is a much better bet.

[Pete-M]

Is it an NA Pete?

 

I think so, I can't remember to be honest. I just remember it being very wrong indeed. Loud, and not very quick.

 

I love Rover V8s and I had a lot of fun with the ones I've had, but if you want a workhorse a smelly old diesel is a much better bet.

 

I did a lot of miles (about 15,000) in a 200TDi 110 HiCap Pick up years ago. Bloody awful thing. Noisy, slow and loud. Not for me.

 

I know some 200/300 TDi lumps aren't bad, but I've never experienced a particularly nice one. They all feel gutless and laggy to me. Even shafted V8s make me grin.

 

I think there's also the fact that I know the V8 inside out and have managed to avoid working on diesels for 20 odd years. I'm unlikely to change my ways now.

[scruff]

They all feel gutless and laggy

 

They are I put one in my old 2a and it went really well in that though.

[Tayne]

.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

I know plenty of people who'll do that in half a year, even in a Defender.

[Guest]

I know plenty of people who'll do that in half a year, even in a Defender.

 

Yeah, but it's fucking painful. And loud. And slow.

[dollywobbler]

I'm not sure I'd want to convert a factory V8. They have a bit of a cachet. Conversion or even LPG seems a lot of effort for not much immediate reward. I just left my 90 V8 on good old petrol and flogged it before the fuel bills got too horrific!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

A V8 Landy seems like bo11ox to me. Its gonna be so thirsty as to barely be a usable form of transport, and its not even a very good engine anyway, as someone has said, shitty carbs, 4:1 compression ratios and worn out camshafts abound. Plus you've got an ignition system to try and keep dry and sealed while you're wading through the sludge. OK you can LPG it if you dont mind losing a load of cargo space or ground clearance. A diesel seems more appropriate all round to me, you're not in any hurry are you. I suppose if I lived in Dubai or something then the V8 would make sense. A Classic rangey with a TD5 sounds bloody great.

[richardthestag]

A V8 Landy seems like bo11ox to me. Its gonna be so thirsty as to barely be a usable form of transport, and its not even a very good engine anyway, as someone has said, shitty carbs, 4:1 compression ratios and worn out camshafts abound. Plus you've got an ignition system to try and keep dry and sealed while you're wading through the sludge. OK you can LPG it if you dont mind losing a load of cargo space or ground clearance. A diesel seems more appropriate all round to me, you're not in any hurry are you. I suppose if I lived in Dubai or something then the V8 would make sense. A Classic rangey with a TD5 sounds bloody great.

 

sorry mr boll but I think that is bollox

 

shitty carbs and tired cams are as easily replaced as fucked diesel pumps and injectors. keeping ignition dry can be a struggle but latex gloves and vaselene normally ok for most situations. obviously it aint going to work underwater like a dizzler but then I don't really want it to. Toroidal tanks take up no more room than a spare wheel. mine sits in the spare wheel well and when I get my arse around to it the spare will sit on the other side of the boot.

 

A Classic rangey with a nice 3.9 RV8 and decent zorst sounds bloody great, goes like a cat with chilli powder round its arse and are no more expensive than tdis to run if you lpg them.

 

there fixed it for you

 

Current daily driver a 3.9 Range rover classic on lpg single point closed loop = 15mpg on my daily grind. Puts running costs mid to high 20's depending on who works it out for you. Anyone who says they get more from a TDi RRC is either fibbing or drives glacially slowly.

 

Anyway back on subject seems a bit odd to buy a v8 landie to convert to dizzler when there are so many dizzlers already out there. The cost differential between petrol and diesel is easily swallowed up with what ever diesel convertion you decide to opt for. If you are only doing a couple of thousand miles a year it is hardly worth the bother or additional expense of converting to diesel or LPG.

 

i.e. Mr Stag still sups super unleaded because it would take me 5 years to recoup the cost of lpg'ing it at my current annual mileage.

[garethj]

Diesel conversions are a long game.

 

Lets say the cost of purchasing a bodily-tatty Disco, grabbing engine, buying a few new bits and then selling a V8 and weighing in the Disco shell equates to £1500.

If we assume that the diesel defender does 27mpg on £1.40 per litre dizzle and the V8 does 15mpg on £1.30 per litre pezel then...

 

You need to drive 9375 miles before you start to save money!

Thanks for all the comments, I've had a V8 109 and it did 12mpg around town, 20mpg at best on a looooong run and 9mpg in the snow. That's with the optional overdrive, natch. If a diesel does 27mpg that's still 15% better than my Volvo, and I'd hope that getting a 200Tdi Discovery should be less than £1500 to buy? As someone said, a Rover V8 is worth a couple of quid anyway.

 

As for a Japanese engine, whilst it might be better it would seriously hurt resale value, and a 200Tdi is probably good enough.

 

Every week I drive past this little beauty, a very early 110 with sliding windows. I stopped and had a look today, it's got 4 speed plus overdrive, a tidy interior, the bulkhead looks solid from the outside and the chassis is crusty.

 

Tax disc is from 2005

 

I've never owned a diesel before, but plenty of V8s and a V12 so I'm well aware of the lovely exhaust note. I'm also aware that mpg in the teens isn't viable at 12,000 miles a year.

[dollywobbler]

A sub-£1500 Discovery without chronic rot is a rare beastie indeed (boot floor, rear wheelarches, sills), especially if it's a diesel. Don't forget that the Tdi needs a cambelt change every five minutes. I'd still like one though. Got a ride out in a V8 ES with LPG yesterday.

[Pete-M]

A V8 Landy seems like bo11ox to me. Its gonna be so thirsty as to barely be a usable form of transport, and its not even a very good engine anyway, as someone has said, shitty carbs, 4:1 compression ratios and worn out camshafts abound. Plus you've got an ignition system to try and keep dry and sealed while you're wading through the sludge. OK you can LPG it if you dont mind losing a load of cargo space or ground clearance. A diesel seems more appropriate all round to me, you're not in any hurry are you. I suppose if I lived in Dubai or something then the V8 would make sense. A Classic rangey with a TD5 sounds bloody great.

 

Compression ratio is easily sorted, cam wear is an issue but only on neglected ones.

 

LPG is the way, sling the tanks underneath and they're unlikely to clout anything. I did plenty of off roading in my J plate Rangie SE and the tanks were never an issue.

 

As for not being in a hurry, in a diesel Landy it's impossible to be in a hurry. In a V8 one you can actually get somewhere without needing a sundial to tell if you've actually moved yet.

 

The last V8 Landy I built used to do 22 mpg on a run without much trouble. If it had been LPG converted that would (at the moment) be the equivalent of nigh on 38 mpg* - which the diesels cannot hope to match. That's assuming LPG is 72p/litre, petrol 130p/litre and diesel 140p/litre.

 

Even if a V8 Landy is only doing 12 mpg in town, on LPG that's near as dammit as cheap as the diseasel - and a hell of a lot more fun.

[garethj]

Sadly I don't do many long runs, 12 miles to work is about it 90% of the time. The heavier the traffic, the more the diesel scores.

 

As I said, I'm far from a diesel fan generally but if it makes owning a 110 a possibility then I'm in favour. As for performance - such as it is - I believe the V8 and 200Tdi make similar power; about 115bhp for the diesel and 125bhp for the V8? That's if the V8 is lifting its valves all the way, which most of them aren't

 

I'm not close to an LPG garage, so there's the faff of a 10 mile round trip through Luton to fill up

[scruff]

Defender 200Tdi is 107bhp, a Disco and all 300Tdi 111bhp, a V8 one will be 114bhp up to 1986 and 134 thereafter.

 

You can pick up MOT fail 200Tdi Discos for £500 or so, they tend to make more on eBay so put the word about elsewhere and one will turn up.

 

If you want to do it start with a 4 banger petrol, they aren't that desirable and the conversion would be a shit load easier. Just buy a loose engine; mine was £150, mate's just bought one for his Series One for £300 with rad, intercooler and all pipes. That brown one looks cooooool though.

[garethj]

Prices amaze me, look at this one with no engine for £1250 without an engine

 

Is it still SNOW CHAOS or something?

[dollywobbler]

Why do you want a Land Rover? If you're commuting, I can't really think of much that's worse. Don't get me wrong, I did like mine, but it spent a lot of time sitting around because everything else I owned was far better on fuel and nicer to drive.

[garethj]

Why do you want a Land Rover? If you're commuting, I can't really think of much that's worse. Don't get me wrong, I did like mine, but it spent a lot of time sitting around because everything else I owned was far better on fuel and nicer to drive.

It's the ideal car, because I want one. No other reason particularly.

 

It's a very handy size with 3 kids plus their stuff to carry around on weekend trips, but the Volvo does that ok. It's really just because I want one, but going bankrupt in exchange for Tiger Tokens isn't an option, therefore thoughts of a diesel.

[scruff]

A lot of those early SWs find their way stateside, they pay serious mulah for them over there.

 

I will keep my eyes open for you