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Scooters's Long Winded Bodgery tips - No.1: Leccy problems


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Posted

There’s been a number of threads and posts highlighting ignition and electrical issues with 80s and 90’s kit on the forum, what follows is a typically scootersesque – long winded -breakdown of what happens, why and a satisfyingly bodgerlike fix that should become part of your maintenance – especially important with cars with ECUs

 

The vast majority of us on this site will either be using an older car on a daily basis and therefore relying on it as our primary form of transport or they will be using one as a trusted backup to a company or modern vehicle.

 

I fall into the first category and use my vehicles as daily drivers. As many of you know, my previous job required a huge mileage and I would utilise kit with the same expectation of performance as I would a modern car. I learned the hard way – in the last 4 years I have had the AA or RAC out to me on at least twenty occasions. You end up having a major sense of humour failure and start to question your faith in the kit when you are waiting to be rescued on the hard shoulder in the pishing rain at 2.00am when you have been on the road since 7 the previous morning.

 

Maintenance is always preferable to repair and the fact of the matter is that in the vast majority of my breakdown situations the issues had been caused by poor regular vehicle maintenance. Of those issues I had just about always the breakdown situation is caused by an electrical fault.

 

Now, those of you who run pre electronic ignition vehicles will be well versed in the art of the soldering iron – the first thing any classic car club will advise you to do is to replace all the spade couplings in the engine bay with soldered joints as without a doubt, any breakdowns will most likely be caused by the failure of the ignition system. Having the joints soldered makes a lot of sense as it allows speedy diagnosis of which component or wire has failed – priceless at 2.00am in the pishing rain!

 

The problem however, is that as users of kit, we are unlikely to be using 1960 Moggy to burn up and down the M6 every week – a better and cheaper choice would be something from the 90’s – and these cars tend to have EFI, ECUS and all the other electronic wizardry that makes the modern car work and which is cursed at by those who yearn for the days of the condenser! However, these newer cars with all their wizardry can be just as vulnerable to electric issues

 

This can lead to very expensive problems – let me explain – last year I needed a new daily driver – the car had to be fast, comfortable, reliable, safe, no older that 1990 and it had to cost under £500 – I bought, from a mate in the Volvo owners club a beautiful 1993 960 Turbo saloon – a rare car as it had a 4 pot rather than the 6 pot of the later 960s – now this is a very quick car and has a very high spec – I rather like the angular nature of these vehicles and there is something very cosy about the big Volvo saloons – you feel that you really are inside a tank. Anyway, I popped over to Swansea one evening to pick it up – one way rental car rental got me there – I dropped the car off in Swansea and picked up the beast – what a car – absolutely loved it – anyway no problems driving back to Hertfordshire until I hit the junction of the M4 and M25 when suddenly the car lost all power. This resulted in a 2.00am tow back to Harpenden. I then embarked on an expensive 4 weeks chasing the problem – I had the AA out twice and replaced the O2 sensor, the ECU, the ignition module and the crank case sensor – not to mention the dizzy cap, rotor, HT leads etc. £400 on parts and I still didn’t get the car fixed – in the end I flogged it to a vicar for £200 – he had it back on the road in 2 weeks.

 

Or there is my lovely old XM – shudder – a Mk2 with the better quality connectors but eventually I got rid of her because of the constant electrical gremlins.

 

You see, the problem is this – in over 100 years of automotive manufacture nobody has yet solved the problem that the weak part of any vehicle is where two electrical components meet…

 

This week on this very site we have several vehicles who are suffering from these issues and it is a real pain – it undermines your whole reason for being a shitter and also questions your faith in what was a good car – it is heat breaking to see that brilliant buy being scrapped or sold for pennies for an unfixable or un cost effective fault.

 

The weak point in any electrical system are the joints – in most vehicles of the period we are talking about these are impressively plasticated plugs and sockets but the fact remains that inside these connectors is similar spade joint technology that goes back 80 odd years. These systems rarely feature on the regular mechanic’s maintenance schedule - the components are fit and forget and will either work or they won’t. The problem is that each of the components needs to function properly for your car to function properly and if just one of them is faulty it can put your fuel consumption up, lead to poor performance, lumpy idling, warning lights and eventual breakdown. If these are connectors on the brake system or suspension then they can result in MOT failure or worse – failure of a critical safety system. The problem with running an older car is that whilst mechanically they may be sound and may possess FSH, the fact is that the electrical systems will be aged and will be the weak point of any £500 mint ebay purchase.

 

Example:

 

In August I bought an L reg 240 Torslanda. Cracking car I hear you cry – built like a tank, B20 engine about as tough as you get, interior hewn from Swedish granite. A car that left the factory gate with a 19 year estimated lifespan.

 

The 240 as all shitters know was developed in the early 70’s as the replacement for the 100 series. Throughout the 20 odd years the car was sold it saw and often led developments to the technology under the bonnet. Volvo was one of the first companies to take the environment seriously and brought in a couple of initiatives in the 80’s the lambda sond system of exhaust emission control being one of them that is now found in all vehicles in one shape or another. The problem for the shitter is that many of the components that were developed do not have the lifespan of the mechanics that were developed in the cars early days. This is not unique to the 240 series. The 900 and the 700 are also prone – mainly because these are very well engineered cars that run and run with minimum maintenance – if there is a breakdown it will almost certainly be electrical and usually manifests itself around the 120k-150k/17-20year mark when most vehicles have been consigned the the scrappy. However, this issue is not unique to Volvos and can manifest itself in the newest of cars. The simple fact is that these components were not designed to last as long as the car and as there is no maintenance involved they get ignored which means problems only manifest themselves on failure.

 

Design faults exacerbate this – for instance did you know than many of the mid 80’s Volvo 240s had biodegradable plastics on their electrical components? So after about 12 years the whole system starts to fail – Volvo replaced many but there will still be cars out there with the original systems just waiting to mug the unsuspecting shitter.

 

My 240 has had an pleasingly boring life – one of the last to roll off the production line it is the pedestrian 2lt version with a manual gearbox and the Spartan spec of the torslanda. It was owned by a vicar for most of its life before being bought by a Volvo nut who always wanted a torsy but then spent most of the next 3 years sitting in a lock up. I bought int in August with 12 months MOT and a recent cambelt service, new fan belt, water pump belt and steering pump belt to boot. I immediately pressed her into the scooters 1000 miles a week regime and other than a shot near side front wishbone bush and a rattler of a heat shield all was fine.

 

About 2 weeks ago the car started to run lumpy, over fuelling, lambda light on (engine management), stalling when cold…all symptoms pointed to a knackered O2 sensor or MAF – these being Volvo parts you are looking at the sharp end of £70 quid for each part here as well….not looking good in my new found life of poverty, To cap it all the power steering pump was playing up.

 

Several chats with Volvo OC members and others caused a lot of chin rubbing and theories about chasing the fault all of which involved serious wallet bashing. Then I thought to myself – what would I do if this were the Sherpa or the old moggy – well, simple, I would go over the whole system and give it a bloody good clean.

 

Tools needed:

 

1/ one old electric or manual toothbrush with stiff bristles (so not too old)

2/ one small wire brush, one which doesn’t shed its bristles

3/ one can of electrical contact cleaner

4/ one can of WD40

5/ one small flat blade screwdriver

6/ one set of sockets

 

In order to ensure your kit functions correctly then it is very important to monitor the condition of the electrical system, especially those systems which directly effect the performance of the car –

 

So what you do is at least twice a year take your tooth brush and contact cleaning spray and dismantle EVERY connection you can find, give the insides of the plugs and sockets a really good skoosh of the cleaner and a good scrub with the toothbrush. Some of these joints wont have been separated in 20 years so they might be stiff but it is important that you get in there. Be careful not to break the plastic clips and be careful not to lose any of the seals and mini gaskets that prevent water getting in. Pay special attention to those which are exposed to the muck of the road.

 

You need the socket set as you may have to remove engine parts to gain access to some of the connectors.

 

In cars such as the 240 the huge engine bay causes problems itself as it means that these components are often more exposed to muck being thrown up from the road. I found a connector at the side of the throttle body looked clean on the outside but inside was full of oily sludge and corrosion – a really good scrub out and skoosh – I then reassembled and covered in WD40 and some insulation tape – should be good for another 20 years now.

 

It takes a couple of hours to do this properly and on some cars you will have to get underneath – remember to follow the correct safety procedure when doing so.

 

Make a mental note of any connections that are looking dodgy, give the wires a good going over to ensure no rot or brakes – this can be difficult due to dirt etc and also modern wires always look like there is no problem. Give the whole system a good squirt of WD40 when reassembled to keep moisture out.

 

If the problem was caused by a dodgy connector then your problem will now be fixed – take the car for a spin, ignore the engine management light these often have to be resent manually – so don’t forget to do so. Listen to the engine, get a feel for any lumpy idling – ignore lumpiness when cold if not excessive as this can just mean the throttle body needs a clean. The car should drive a LOT better – I did this this morning with my Torslanda and there are now no problems and the car is running better than ever. Just feels a lot tighter so I suspect there were several niggling issues that have now been resolved.

 

It’s very important to introduce this in your maintenance schedule. These issues are only manifesting themselves now as the kit from the 90s reaches the age when these components start to deteriorate. The benefits are obvious but it also helps you gain confidence and knowledge about the ignition and fuelling systems – and the condition of the components. Better still; if your car does develop a fault then you will be able to identify it without having to always have the nagging suspicion that it is a connection fault.

 

My 240 feels like a new car – 2 hours and a bit of elbow grease have saved me several hundred quid – I have also rediscovered why I like the car as well. I am now going to ensure that all the daily drivers in the family get the same treatment before the really nasty weather closes in…..and the 240 …well its only got 120k on the clock – good for another 20 years methinks!

Posted

Some good tips I'm sure, however, most of the problems you describe were solved by certain manufacturers a very long time ago.

 

I became personally aware of this in 1983, when my father purchased his first Japanese built car - a Nissan Sunny Estate 1.5 SGL. :wink:

 

This early experience has almost guaranteed that I buy only Asian sourced vehicles.

Posted

Good post 8)

 

I'll chip in with a few thoughts, as a design engineer usually in the automotive industry and working with electronics...

 

Get a fibreglass pencil to clean connectors, they're available from Halfords for a couple of quid. It's what you need to clean the oxidation off without taking the plating off. If the plating has gone, you'll be scraping the connectors with a screwdriver every week. A brass wire brush might be ok if you're gentle, but fibreglass is where it's at IMHO.

 

Once you've finished with the brain dead staff in Halfords, get over to Maplin Electronics to talk to the geeks. Get some switch cleaning spray in an aerosol can, it's really nasty to your fingers but the dedicated shite driver should be immune to dermatitis by now.

 

Just count yourself lucky you don't have a car with low current switching like a Jaguar XJ40, Range Rover P38 etc They don't have enough current to keep contacts clean. If you're having trouble sleeping at night, this is a great cure: http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Contacts-Application-Ragnar-Holm/dp/3540038752 :D

Posted
Good post 8)

 

I'll chip in with a few thoughts, as a design engineer usually in the automotive industry and working with electronics...

 

Get a fibreglass pencil to clean connectors, they're available from Halfords for a couple of quid. It's what you need to clean the oxidation off without taking the plating off. If the plating has gone, you'll be scraping the connectors with a screwdriver every week. A brass wire brush might be ok if you're gentle, but fibreglass is where it's at IMHO.

 

Once you've finished with the brain dead staff in Halfords, get over to Maplin Electronics to talk to the geeks. Get some switch cleaning spray in an aerosol can, it's really nasty to your fingers but the dedicated shite driver should be immune to dermatitis by now.

 

Just count yourself lucky you don't have a car with low current switching like a Jaguar XJ40, Range Rover P38 etc They don't have enough current to keep contacts clean. If you're having trouble sleeping at night, this is a great cure: http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Contacts-Application-Ragnar-Holm/dp/3540038752 :D

 

GTD2000-

 

yes these issues were solved but the fact remains that all electrical components get dirty and degenerage over time - My Mk1 Shogun - a 20 year old Japanese car had reall issues with its connections as did my Shitetack. What Volvos have in common with these vehicles is that they are still on the road which means that the components are often old and/or dirty.

 

i don't believe for one minute that this issue has been solved my most manufacturers - according to my RAC man mate, the majority of breakdowns he attends in modern cars are due to electrical faults and more often than not to the failure of a connection.

 

GarethJ - a very good tip about the fibre glass pencil - I will definately get one of those.

 

I had an XJ40 DD6 which was an electrical nightmare - never again!

Posted

I was being slightly sarcastic in my response but the Japs have produced "above average reliablity" cars for probably 30~40 years now. Sure, they used to rust to bits but everything just worked.. :D

 

I read about the electrical gremlins regarding the RAC/AA etc but that was mainly involving French cars from memory?

 

It's a pity because I've driven a couple of French cars and thought they were pretty decent overall but wouldn't own one due to the anticipated electrical issues - this also turns me of certain recent Nissan models contaminated with Renault components. :evil:

 

It's funny that Volvo can use French engines and produce a well regarded, reliable, long lasting product though.... :roll:

Posted

Just to add to the excellent original post, I have a pair of tweezers modified for cleaning pins. I've superglued fine little wet and dry piece onto the inside of the jaws. Another good tool for the job! Although it sounds like garethj would warn against wearing any coatings off. I guess judicious use is the answer.

Posted
Some good tips I'm sure, however, most of the problems you describe were solved by certain manufacturers a very long time ago.

I don’t buy this, technology used 20 years ago isn’t used now, all components must be free of lead in the soldering as well as cadmium in the plating and loads of other nasty chemicals. This means the processes in assembly have to change and there’s always cost-cutting so components are downgraded as much as possible. And I agree with scooter’s AA man; there’s no such thing as a car that doesn’t have electrical issues.

 

Some manufacturers do a better job by reducing the heat, water and vibration that connectors are exposed to, that all helps a lot. But there’ll always be something that we find out about 10+ years later. To be honest, if a car is designed to last 10 years (at a guess) then manufacturers would be stupid to add in cost and make some parts last 20 or 30 years. And they’re very good at not adding in cost :wink:

Posted
Some good tips I'm sure, however, most of the problems you describe were solved by certain manufacturers a very long time ago.

I don’t buy this, technology used 20 years ago isn’t used now, all components must be free of lead in the soldering as well as cadmium in the plating and loads of other nasty chemicals. This means the processes in assembly have to change and there’s always cost-cutting so components are downgraded as much as possible. And I agree with scooter’s AA man; there’s no such thing as a car that doesn’t have electrical issues.

 

Some manufacturers do a better job by reducing the heat, water and vibration that connectors are exposed to, that all helps a lot. But there’ll always be something that we find out about 10+ years later. To be honest, if a car is designed to last 10 years (at a guess) then manufacturers would be stupid to add in cost and make some parts last 20 or 30 years. And they’re very good at not adding in cost :wink:

 

 

Most car manufacturers would have us change our cars every 3 years - a 6 year old car is now an old car so there is lottle incentive to make long lasting components in this culture of disposable rubbish!

 

BTW, a chap on the volvo forum suggested using a very fine brass brush to clean contacts as he finds the fibre glass ones can wear out quickly if the contacts are badly corroded - he also recommended carbon pencils as he uses in the PCB industry but mentioned that these wear out very quickly. Also - to protect from oxidisation a dab of silicone grease works wonders apparantly.

 

WD40 on the connectors themselves is apprantly good for emergencies but whislt it cleans and protects also acts as a resistor - better to stick to purpose made cleaners - some even have lube in them for variable resistors and work very well on automotive connectors as they stick

Posted

Great tips and advise , I rebuild mains motors for a living , we are banned from using the red , blue and yellow " crimp " on connectors as they are crap , everything we do is soldered ( with proper leaded stuff as we still have some left ) or " welded using an oxy plant .

Old 60s Lucarse electics arnt much better , connectors were originally spot welded on and covered with a slide on insulator , these arnt damp proof and the connections do build up high resistance over time , Lucarse used Ripaults cable which was about the best you could buy , even so after 30 to 40 years use a lot of it is past its best with brittle coverings esp. near heat

Posted

Some great information here..

 

I've fortunately not had many electrical faults but I am 'in the dark' about some things talked about here.

 

With regards to soldering joints, do you still use a connector but soldered instead of crimped, or what? Pics? Does anyone use shrinkwrap on connections?

 

Cheers, Greg.

Posted
Most car manufacturers would have us change our cars every 3 years - a 6 year old car is now an old car so there is lottle incentive to make long lasting components in this culture of disposable rubbish!

 

I may be the lone fish against the tide here but I don't see that with any of the cars I've bought.

 

Cars are much cheaper to buy these days than previously and manufacturing costs are a tiny fraction of the purchase price. I'm surprised they can built such good cars for essentially a couple of grand to be honest!

 

When I compare the new cars my father bought in the 60's/70's the built in disposability factor seemed more likely.

 

His brand new FIAT 126, purchased during the oil crisis (to replace his Ford Cortina) was a piece of shit that never started in winter and needed a full respray after 2 years of use.

 

His replacement Ford Escort estate had to have a complete bottom end respray after three years of ownership.

 

People would go nuts about that sort of quality today!

 

These days, I expect a car to go around 10 years without any real drama at all. 15 is probably the likely design life of most of the Jap/Asian sourced stuff that I buy.

 

YMMV of course.

Posted

Great post Scooters.

 

I have heard/read that soldered connectors can become brittle over time and with vibration. I never use the coloured plastic covered crimp terminals. Much prefer the bare ones which you can crimp on and then cover with a separate insulator - these look correct on old cars too as its how Lucas often did spade connectors. I almost always solder them once crimped as extra security and what I feel ought to be a better electrical connection than just crimping. These have a crimp for the insulator part of the wire as well as the core.

 

coverspade.jpg

Posted

It’s not usually the join between wire and terminal that goes, but terminal to other terminal.

 

Having said that, if you’re in any doubt about your crimping ability, soldering the wires in is excellent insurance, and it’s a good excuse to buy one of those gas soldering irons you can use in the draughty outdoors.

Posted

Cars have never really been built with long term durability in mind - not in the 1930s, not in the 1960s and not now. Indvidual manufacturers such as Volvo, Saab and Mercedes have built often cars of high quality, and sometimes these companies have capitalised on the fact their vehicles happen to last longer than others, but no car manufacturer wants their cars to last indefinitely. Modern cars are lasting longer, otherwise the industry/governments etc wouldn't need scrappage incentives to 'stimulate' the market.

 

I think the main difference between cars built before about 1980 and now is that they were designed with ease of access for DIY maintenance in mind.

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