All aboard the Oriental Express, love or hate sir?l

[Cavcraft]

I seem to be a magnet for Oriental tat recently.First a Kia Sportage which was stupidly slow but not a bad car at all in other respects.Next up was the Pajero which is now used most days and I have to say is a fantastic tool. Got all the toys you could want and more, is pretty good on fuel (I think about 23-25mpg in daily short journey use) and I plan to be keeping it a while.Latest Alasation munching mobile has me stumped though:2002 Proton Satria 1.5 OMG GLX Sport innit bruv.The recipe is there: it's been lowered on gash Ripspeed alloys and has a nice backbox which makes just the right noise. It handles well, sounds ace, is surprisingly quick and is an absolute blast to drive.BUT...it's got too may problems for a 50,000 mile car. The n/s window sticks and has to be held/pulled while the switch is fiddled with (Vectra anyone?), the EML came on and stayed on, it randomly it runs like a bag of nails until you turn the engine off and re-start it and theres various clonks from the suspension, possibly due to being lowered.So the jury's out, I can't decide if I like it or hate it. When I'm not driving it I think it's crud but jump in, give it large and it reminds me of a 205GTI.Anyone else got Proton experience to share?

[pogweasel]

That would certainly explain the problems encountered.

[Cavcraft]

Pog in top form again!Yeah, it's been fiddled with by Lotus I think, in fact didn't Proton own Lotus for a while/still do?

[ashmicro]

Pog in top form again!Yeah, it's been fiddled with by Lotus I think, in fact didn't Proton own Lotus for a while/still do?

The Malayan Govt IIRC by proxy. Owns both, if you catch my drift.

[peter9000uk]

Daughters ex has had 2 Proton thingys and then went for the Satria GTI. Handled reasonably well, not too shabby on performance considering 134BHP but had all the above mentioned faults & more . Was on a 54 plate too, Proton dealer had for around 10 weeks of the 7 months he had it!

[Pete-M]

There's a list of oriental cars I like, the rest I don't.Impreza / Legacy TurboMX-5Skyline R32Toyota 2000GTDatsun 240 / 260Z.The rest are all domestic appliances, inc the Mitsubishi Evos.

[Cavcraft]

Skylines good to drive? They look pretty dull to me, at least the earlier ones do. Actually someone tried to offload a 2.0 n/a one on me very recently, I jibbed it as I imagine it'd be absolute dogshit in the performance stakes.Had an Impreza but I don't think I could drive one on a daily basis, seemed a bit 'extreme' for constant use.

[saabhappy]

Honda NSX is remarkably un-fridgelike IMHO.

[Pete-M]

the NSX is meant to be ace, but it just looks all wrong to me, and it's got a boring Jap interior. Skylines are ok to drive. The GT-S is a giggle and the GTR is a bit of a beastie. They're quick enough to make ignoring the 'orrible shiny Micra switches bearable. They ride horrendously and have more boom periods than Brian Blessed in an echo chamber, but they do have something about them that makes 'em fun.Problem I have with Jap stuff is that it all seems to be monstrously dull. Even the mega-quick stuff feels dull, as if there's some bloke in a lab somewhere trying to engineer all the fun out of every car made in Japan. The Skyline / Impreza / RX7 / 240Z and MX-5 seem to have avoided his deathlike meddling.Bugger, I forgot one, I like the last of the RX7s.

[saabhappy]

I think I'll go with Gordon Murray on the NSX:

The moment I drove the “little†NSX, all the benchmark cars–Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini–I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX’s ride quality and handling would become our new design target.

Seems pretty conclusive from someone who knows his onions....or his cars, come to that.

[Pete-M]

Seems pretty conclusive from someone who knows his onions....or his cars, come to that.

He drives a Smart car.

[saabhappy]

He must know a lot more that we don't than I thought. Still, I know whose judgement I'll take on high-performance cars, thanks anyway.

[saabhappy]

Anyway, I drive a Mazda 3 and a Saab 900 so I know nothing.

[messerschmitt owner]

Seems pretty conclusive from someone who knows his onions....or his cars, come to that.

He drives a Smart car.

so do I! It's not all about lazy, big engines!The NSX drives well and is the rare supercar you could do 200,000 miles in!Some Jap cars are fab - but lots are the earlier ones like the S800, Z600 Hondas, Datsun 240Z, Nissan Fairlady, Toyota 2000GTWould I have an MX-5 in comparison to my smart roadster - like chalk and cheese! One is just a modern MGB!

[Pete-M]

Would I have an MX-5 in comparison to my smart roadster - like chalk and cheese! One is just a modern MGB!

Oooooh, I don't agree with this at all, even though it's said all the bloody time. The MX-5 is a billion times better than the MGB ever was.Ah, I get it. The Smart Roadster is like the MGB. Yeah, I'll go along with that.

[saabhappy]

Ah, I get it. The Smart Roadster is like the MGB. Yeah, I'll go along with that.

Well, it's a free country...or free-ish.

[messerschmitt owner]

Would I have an MX-5 in comparison to my smart roadster - like chalk and cheese! One is just a modern MGB!

Oooooh, I don't agree with this at all, even though it's said all the bloody time. The MX-5 is a billion times better than the MGB ever was.Ah, I get it. The Smart Roadster is like the MGB. Yeah, I'll go along with that.

easier to agree to disagree - the 5 is boring! But what do I know anyway!

[Mr Lobster]

Have to say I've never driven a Smart Roadster so can't say what it's like. Have done quite a few miles in a 04 plate 1.8 MX5 though and certainly wouldn't consider it boring. Really really enjoyed that, handles well, reasonably quick and surprisingly comfortable.

[saabhappy]

I like Mazdas AND MGBs and can't really see the need to be unpleasant about either. I'd prefer a 'B', would enjoy a 5, but as I can no longer get in either it's academic. I'd certainly be happy to be parked alongside either at a show, which is just as well because they're both very popular at all the events I attend.

[meggersdog]

I own a series one RX-7 which is a blast to drive although fuel consumption is horrendous,20 mpg if you are lucky.On Monday I bought an MX5,well Eunos,from BCA.It is still taxed so when I fit some rear 'pads and get it MOT'd I might drive it around for a week or so before selling it on.The drive home was ok but seeing as the rear brakes were metal on metal I didn't push it.New 'pads were 14 quid so I think it's going to be cheaper to run than my RX-7.

[Pete-M]

I like Mazdas AND MGBs and can't really see the need to be unpleasant about either. I'd prefer a 'B', would enjoy a 5, but as I can no longer get in either it's academic. I'd certainly be happy to be parked alongside either at a show, which is just as well because they're both very popular at all the events I attend.

I accidentally bought a rubber bumper MGB GT many years ago, it had severely tainted me when it comes to MGBs. I still think the chrome bumper B is a very pretty car, but even after driving fully restored and tweaked ones I don't rate them at all. The MX5 is a giggle straight out of the box, handles brilliantly, can be had with AC, LSD, and a few other choice toys, never seems to do less than 30 mpg and other than the electric window cables snapping the one I used regularly for about a year never gave a moments grief. I love MX5s. The one I used to drive was a very very early Eunos with the early 'loud' factory exhaust which used to make me grin every time I drove it. MGBs drive like Marinas. This is not a good thing.

[UglyAmerican]

I've owned several Japanese cars over the past 10 years, and all were a snooze.

 

On the other hand, how can you hate the...

 

Nissan President

 

Toyota Century V12

 

Hyundai Equus

[Ratdat]

I've had a lot of japanese cars and to me the dull stuff starts coming after the mid 70's. The period from '65 to '75 are the 'golden years' when they produced some stylish, characterful and well engineered cars. Later cars retain the high engineering standards but usually loose either the nice styling, or character or sometimes both.That's not to say I don't like any post '75 Japanese cars. I have had a few that have been okay. I utterly love the N13 Sunny ZX hatchback, which is one of the greatest hot hatches made IMO. The R33 Skyline GTS I had was a nice car, although it did have an incredibly bland interior. I'd have another S13 Silvia or 200SX too. Despite the same failing as the R33, they are a superb drive and good fun too. But I've experienced extreme dullness is many 80's and 90's Japanese cars. I often champion the late 80's Mazda 323's as a great car, which they are if reliability is the top of tour agenda. if you want an interesting car with a rewarding drive they most definately fail miserably.To fully appreciate just how superb and old Japanese car is you need a Datsun 510. It's everything an enthusiastic driver could want in a small car. It makes an Escort look pre-historic mechanically. Fabulous, well balanced RWD handling plus a decent amount of go, a quite sophisticated spec for a 1967 economy car and it a good looker too. It's ultra tunable too with giant killing capabilities. Shame they sold so few here.

[Talbotman]

Familiarity and the hairdresser image breeds contempt with the mx5 i presume - any mx5 is a fab piece of machinery bombproof mechanics - fab handling - and the shortest snickiest standard shift gearchange on a production car. The smart roadster is fun but flawed - that god damn awful semi autobox for one thing - but the potential was there.Mgb? Funny thing is i much prefer the tatty unrestored ones like i used to see in the mid to late seventies and early eighties -and there seems to be a code now that 99% of restored ones must be painted tartan bloody red yawn yawn! They are what they are- namely a Morris oxford roadster - of that ilk id prefer a Sunbeam alpine.

[VWPowered]

i had a aerodeck proton 1.5 mitsi lump in it that used to scream, nasty nasty nasty car but was fun going it large with the XR3i boys (and sometimes winning)

[saabhappy]

MGBs drive like Marinas. This is not a good thing.

400,000 sold of which at a conservative estimate 25% remain.Not just Grodon Murray disagrees with you then.

[Pete-M]

MGBs drive like Marinas. This is not a good thing.

400,000 sold of which at a conservative estimate 25% remain.Not just Grodon Murray disagrees with you then.

Oh right, sorry, I missed your point.The MGB is shit. Always was, if the truth be told. Even in the early '60s it was out-dated and not a particularly good car to drive. In the '70s, it got worse until eventually, in the early '80s, someone had the good sense to kill it. Because it was shit.Unfortunately, in the '80s there weren't many 'full' convertible cars about, and MGBs - being shit - were cheap. So people bought them. Then they discovered the one thing an MGB is brilliant at, which is rusting. So they threw money at restoring the heap they'd just bought, and discovered that an MGB isn't hard to restore. Mechanical bits from the neolithic era, tolerances measured to the nearest km, and all the bits available because the bloody awful things were made for nigh on 30 years. Small cottage industries grew up where men with beards could discuss the wonders of the trunnion before nipping down to the pub to complain about the lack of proper beer. Clubs sprung up where said bearded men could get together on a Sunday afternoon and complain about other people owning cars that actually handle, that start in the morning, and that can produce rather more than 78 bhp from a 1.8 litre engine.Meanwhile, in deepest California, a bunch of Mazda designers came up with the one thing that the British motor industry never managed. A quick, excellent handling, reliable, well made, little roadster that took the best cues from the old Brit rubbish of the '60s and actually made it work. The MX5. The MX5 is now 21 years old, and the best selling convertible of all time. Unlike the MGB, it's also been consistently better than most, if not all, of its opposition for the whole of the 21 years.

[Ratdat]

I suspect has Nissan marketed the original SP310 Fairlady roadster here it's have either prompted BMC to improve the MGB or it would have killed it off. Both cars were launched at the same time and initially the MGB would have had the better spec as the first fairlady was only a 1500 (albeit 85hp) but by late 1967 you could have a 2.0L OHC with up to 150bhp on tap as well as a five speed gearbox.

 

 

During the MGB's production life the Fairlady was upgraded three times then replaced by the 240Z then 260Z and finally the 280ZX. This is one of the reasons why the B gradually died in the US market. Sure you could have a six pot or even a V8 MGB, but really these were just band-aids when what was really needed was a new car.

 

It amused me greatly in 1989 when Lotus introduced that hideous FWD Elan and Mazda, the MX5. If ever there was a car which should have worn a Lotus Elan badge, it's the MX5. It's precisely what I would have hoped for from Lotus but alas it took the Japanese to remind us what a proper small sportscar was.

[pompei]

Straying slightly away from the Japanese topic, I've read that the Alfa Spyder and Fiat 124 Coupe and Spyder were excellent drives and far better than the MGB.I'm not sure how they would have compared on price though.

[saabhappy]

Oh right, sorry, I missed your point.

It's a habit of yours. My point was that the MGB is the classic car scene's great survivor in the UK, with an owners club that's a medium-sized business, is the mainstay of shows up and down the country and is loved by its current tens of THOUSANDS of owners. In the face of that, one little man stamping his foot and denouncing it as shit makes him look very silly and rather arrogant.