Veg Oil - any benefits?

[angorabedsock]

Co-op? In my world that's like Marks and Spencers :D:D

[Milford Cubicle]

Does anyone know much about converting a 205 Lucas to a Bosch setup? If it's cheap and easy then it could be worthwhile as I've grown rather fond of the old shitter for the time being.

As well as the pump, you need the injector lines, drive sprocket and pump bracket off the donor vehicle.I wouldn't run a Lucas-equipped vehicle on vegetable oil unmodified unless it was a disposable car.Somehow I managed to get 7k out of my XUD9 Lucas-equipped Rover 218D on straight oil.I've heard of failures within a mile of using oil though, it's pretty random. Even on light mixes they can be pretty fragile.

[angorabedsock]

Does anyone know much about converting a 205 Lucas to a Bosch setup? If it's cheap and easy then it could be worthwhile as I've grown rather fond of the old shitter for the time being.

As well as the pump, you need the injector lines, drive sprocket and pump bracket off the donor vehicle.I wouldn't run a Lucas-equipped vehicle on vegetable oil unmodified unless it was a disposable car.Somehow I managed to get 7k out of my XUD9 Lucas-equipped Rover 218D on straight oil.I've heard of failures within a mile of using oil though, it's pretty random. Even on light mixes they can be pretty fragile.

Ta muchly, I think I'll avoid the veg for the time being then. Are there any prime candidates in scrap yards for Bosch pumps? I know some 306s and 405s have them, but most of them seem to be Lucas jobs. Is there a particular model that's a cert to be bosched-up?

[Milford Cubicle]

I've seen quite a few early-mid '90s 405 1.9Ds with Bosch fuel pumps. The smaller cars seem to stick with Lucas usually - but I have seen ZX and 306 1.9Ds with Bosch pumps. If you hadn't guessed, you'll need a non-turbo pump assuming your 205 is naturally aspirated, the turbo pumps are quite different.

[Alpineandy]

I think I'll avoid the veg for the time being then.

As I understand it, you shouldn't have any problem using 33% Veg oil in any car including a new 'DI' engines (10 litres veg to 20 litres of pump diesel). As the pump stuff thins the veg oil sufficiently. The 'Bosch' pump question only comes up when you use more than 50% veg oil. Although when the weather look like getting into 'arctic' levels I think it'd be wise to forget the veg oil.

[Milford Cubicle]

Vegetable oil in an unmodified common-rail engine = see you later high pressure pumps.They are very sensitive to viscosity...

[FredTransit]

Apparently the late transit has viscosity sensors, which as you say, see you later if you so much as load up some veg oil in the back with your shopping!

[Alpineandy]

Vegetable oil in an unmodified common-rail engine = see you later high pressure pumps.They are very sensitive to viscosity...

At 33% mix, I doubt it would change the viscosity any more than cold weather would effect pump fuels viscosity. However If you're really concerned by it use a lower mix.

[FredTransit]

Any less than a third, is it really any saving? Unless it's free WVO.

[r.welfare]

Well, depends on how much fuel you use, Fred. For me, using 60L of diesel per month, I reckon I'll save £100 annually by using veg for a third of my fuel requirements (if the differential between new veg and pump diesel remains at the 40p/L level).

[FredTransit]

No offence mate but for £100 a year I would not bother, would just put the derv in.

[Alpineandy]

No offence mate but for £100 a year I would not bother, would just put the derv in.

I'd use a 1% mix or save only a quid a year if it kept the tax out of this 'anti-car' governments pocket....

[Milford Cubicle]

You'd probably save a lot more money by driving in an economical style.Take that Government!

[Alpineandy]

You'd probably save a lot more money by driving in an economical style. Take that Government!

That's why I've got oilburners as my workhorses.I understand the sports cars contribute to MPs expenses and knowingly make that contribution, as they're my fun cars. But I object bigtime to the contributions when using the workhorses...

[garbaldy]

You'd probably save a lot more money by driving in an economical style. Take that Government!

That's why I've got oilburners as my workhorses.I understand the sports cars contribute to MPs expenses and knowingly make that contribution, as they're my fun cars. But I object bigtime to the contributions when using the workhorses...

ive been driveing diseisels for over 15 years now and the saveing against petrol are just not so good, the main problem is when you have a petrol engined car and do an average milage its costs x amount then when you buy a deisel you find you can go farther for similar cost so you end up spending the same amount on fuel anyway as you use the car more frequently

[r.welfare]

Thought I'd bump this to update with my findings, as I've just used up a full tank of 75% veg/25% derv mix. Got about 2mpg less than I normally do on straight derv; certainly it made the engine much louder (more rattly) at idle, whether warm or cold, and raised the idle speed from it's usual 800rpm to nearer 1100rpm. There was definite resistance (almost a miss/stumble) if the engine was asked to pull hard-ish when cold. On the plus side though it did seem to hold a cruising speed with more ease, being less sensitive to throttle movements, revved more swiftly when warm, and there was certainly less smoke when booting it.Oh, and it didn't seem to make any discernible difference to the emissions output when put through the MOT yesterday, either, compared to the figure it achieved last year on straight derv - both were around 1.8 (limit is 3.0).I'll continue with adding veg, but certainly in a lower mix ratio (probably 30% veg/70% derv) from now on, particularly as we get into the winter months.

[Milford Cubicle]

Running on vegetable oil does seem to increase diesel knock, due to worn injectors more than anything I think.

 

Straight oil is around 10% less efficient, the best I've got out of this 405 is 49MPG, while I managed 56MPG with my previous diesel-only Lucas-pumped 405 TD.

 

If you want to improve efficiency on veg, this simple modification helps a lot.

 

How much are you paying for new oil?

[r.welfare]

65p/L, in 20 litre drums from CostCo. I think you're right in that my car definitely has a worn injector, as at it's normal idle speed of 800rpm it vibrates and sounds a bit agricultural!Interesting link - so basically, take out the water-in-diesel sensor and Araldite a penny into the hole, is that right?

[Milford Cubicle]

It's a thermostat, to keep the diesel fuel from getting too hot/thin.Remove it, and you create a constantly heated fuel filter.65p is good going, I never thought new veg would go back to being so cheap.Is it KTC soya-based oil?

[r.welfare]

Yeah, it's KTC. Think I will proceed with 20L per tank in future, so I'll not be doing the mod. It's so much quieter on straight derv now, it's unreal!Looking at my records, I've been averaging 45mpg for the last 12,000 miles, all done on a brim-to-brim basis - the most I've seen is 54mpg, on long gentle runs from home to Wiltshire on A-roads. I agree that folk who say these will do 60mpg no bother are either calculating incorrectly, or driving very slowly indeed.

[Alpineandy]

ive been driving diesels for over 15 years now and the saving against petrol are just not so good, the main problem is when you have a petrol engined car and do an average milage its costs x amount then when you buy a deisel you find you can go farther for similar cost so you end up spending the same amount on fuel anyway as you use the car more frequently

I've had the R5 since 2002 and the safrane nearly 2 years. I don't do anywhere near enough mileage to justify buying a new(ish) car but don't drive it either any more than the petro cars before. Nothing to do with the cars and more to do with work/house/traffic in west london.The Alpines haven't been on the road for over a year now (I'll try to get them out next spring - I hope) and they're the cars i would use more frequently. I'm sure many people do have that issue though...provided it's cheaper than pump fuel, I'm still recommending that people bung some veg oil in their diesels but I wouldn't suggest any more than 50/50 in the summer and less in the winter. Most of us (on here) fiddle with their cars at least occassionally, so tipping a few litres in now and then isn't necessarily difficult. I've now stored another 60 litre of Tescos KTC (65p a litre) away (use by some time in 2011).

[Milford Cubicle]

I'm still recommending that people bung some veg oil in their diesels but I wouldn't suggest any more than 50/50 in the summer and less in the winter.

I hope you aren't recommending it to owners of common rail diesels. Soya oil is pretty low-grade as far as vegetable oil fuels go - it's more likely to coke up injectors, etc. and gels up far more readily than rapeseed.Fine for a diesel mix though.

[garbaldy]

well to be totally honest i have been running waste veg oil for years in my old 4x4s and they run fine although a little down on power but even i would not recomend that anyone run their car on veg without knowing the risks involved, i have seen many a fuel pump ruined by people thinking they can just go to tesco,s and tip it in that quinton chappy whent on a nation tv program and said it was fine to run veg in your car but neglected to let people know that it could damage your engine.to top it off though it is ethicly wrong to run a car on food crops intended for human consumption and only waste veg should be used as most times this gets binned anyway.

[Milford Cubicle]

On 'Tonight' I think it was, Quentin Wilson poured a 1l bottle of vegetable oil down the filler neck of an Astra CDTi (common rail) van. At the time, when vegetable oil prices were at an all-time high I bet it cost more than 1 litre of diesel, and it'd probably cost £1500 to fix the damage caused by running on straight oil.Great job!

[Negative Creep]

I guess I have the Lucas pump then?

 

 

 

It say Lucas on the primer pump so I presume the whole system is?

[Milford Cubicle]

It is a Lucas pump, aye. You can tell by the fuel inlet on top of the pump body.My 405 has a Lucas/CAV labelled primer bulb, but has a Bosch fuel pump. The bulb is standard fitment on all these engines I think.