"Cash for Clunkers" - US Scrappage Scheme

[Guest]

So the Cash for Clunkers thing has gone ahead offering similar money to ours, however the US equivalent has a couple of key caveats in it - it has to be less than 25 years old and get less than 18mpg.

 

So if you have a think about it - 1984 or newer. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regs came in 1978 as a response to the first "gas crisis", which basically averaged the mpg across the range of each manufacturer and put charged a hefty penalty on those who didn't meet the mpg standards (which tightened up each year). This basically led to the American manufacturers frantically cleaning up their acts and gave birth to things like the Chrysler K-car, Chevy Cavalier, Ford Escort (US sort), dramatically-shortened Lincolns, etc.

 

As a result, most normal passenger cars aren't even eligible as the mpg is too good! So the bulk of the eligible vehicles are big pickup trucks and SUVs, with nearly all the passenger cars being high-end luxury/sports stuff which probably would be worth more to someone not scrapped anyway.

 

Here's a list of eligible vehicles: http://www.edmunds.com/cash-for-clunker ... icles.html

 

All pretty funny really - I love how someone with an old Tempo is screwed because it has a combined 25mpg, but Lincoln Continental Mark Vs (about 7mpg) are too old to qualify. It's great!

 

Well done America for showing us how it's done. Shame about those GMC Vanduras, but at least Raymanboy could send his LeBaron over there to be cubed.

[brammy777]

ive seen this detailed on Jalopnik And it does seem for the most part, better planned, but ive also seen videos of what they have to do to the cars traded in, which is destroy the engine.So any car which has been traded in cant have engine bits knicked as theyre probably fuckedApparently its so far a massive success, more than the government thought it would beAnd Hirst is right, its all pick ups being traded inI wonder if anyone trades in a Hummer, as they never ever ever ever get 18mpgBut when it comes to scrappage schemes, for the most part, im not too worried about old cars being traded as hopefully the better ones are being held onto by owners who give a damn.Although i would never trade in a car for anything american made now, its becoming a shadow of its former self IMHO

[Station]

American cars are not a shadow of their former self I think, I reckon they haven't really moved on in their basic design, only really being influenced by California in their daft lobbying for safety/environment issues. And they're fucking ugly.

[woolleyiain]

It's currently paying my rent, and it's great. It does seem better organised that the UK version, there is some cannibalisation allowed (seats, tailgates, etc) and most of the stuff we've squashed so far has been of the vast yank stuff - old suburbans and K5's and such. A few old Caddy's have met their deaths at my hands though, I'm sorry to say.

[Guest]

This is an even funnier thing - there's no restrictions on new vehicles, so you can bin your old Chevy Suburban and move up to a Hummer H2. Nice work!

[brammy777]

hmmm i guess what i said was rather sweeping, i dont know, I just think that the muscle cars of yesteryear and the exec tanks have been pushed aside for 'trendy cars'.I would just take a 60/70s american car over a current one, but then again id choose that with every car, regardless of country manufactured.I just think some car companies (not just american) need an injection of passion.

[fordpoplier]

I too saw some video of engines being kippered at dealers with some liquid glass concoction so the rest of the car could be picked over before final squashing. I think Ford have just had their first 'good' month in ages and the Fed have had to drop another couple of billion to keep this going so it's certainly popular.

[woolleyiain]

Most of the stuff we've taken has been on it's last legs tbh. We seem to be seeing the type of person that buys a car every 10 years or so and want out of their 250k mile Silverado or similar. I haven't really seen anything that you'd want to keep - and as there are no real safety inspections out here most of em fall well into the "death trap" category...

[Gompo]

  brammy777 said:

So any car which has been traded in cant have engine bits knicked as theyre probably fucked

Not having a go at you at all (for what it's worth and trying not to be patronising your knowledge, grammar, prose is a breath of fresh air compared with many your age) , but it would be a bit ironic if the 'unclean' clunker engine/parts were used to keep another unclean engine on the road, if you know what I mean. The American's seemed to have thought it over a lot better than our government. Their car making legacy is in a whole lot more trouble than ours yet havent gone to our extremes.

[FredTransit]

Generally the US version seems to be better thought out than the stupid crappage scheme. At least they are not allowing classics and vintage to be sucked into it!

[UglyAmerican]

  FredTransit said:

Generally the US version seems to be better thought out than the stupid crappage scheme. At least they are not allowing classics and vintage to be sucked into it!

There are some cars I'd really rather NOT be taken off the road though. The indestructible Ovlovs, for example (740 etc), the Subaru SVX, many Toyota Supras, same for the Nissan ZX cars from the 1990s.Like woolleyiain says though, it's a lot of trucks and other 1990s shit that nobody ever wants to see again. In a way it's like the gubment is getting rid of an era of cars that's best forgotten anyway.

[FredTransit]

Well it's the same here. For one reason or another I think there will be a real shortage of middle aged cars soon, and I doubt many of the late 90s cars will reach 20!

[brammy777]

  Gompo said:

  brammy777 said:

So any car which has been traded in cant have engine bits knicked as theyre probably fucked

Not having a go at you at all (for what it's worth and trying not to be patronising your knowledge, grammar, prose is a breath of fresh air compared with many your age) , but it would be a bit ironic if the 'unclean' clunker engine/parts were used to keep another unclean engine on the road, if you know what I mean. The American's seemed to have thought it over a lot better than our government. Their car making legacy is in a whole lot more trouble than ours yet havent gone to our extremes.

no youre right Im sure i saw a video of a Volvo s60 being fed with the engine 'destroyer' on jalopnik, what a waste of a car. Our college had 2 of them, one of them got vandalised and was scrapped however.The mileage on them was at 180000, although the interiors looked good.Isnt Britains car legacy that of small sports cars? Thats seemingly okay for now, with Morgan, Caterham, Lotus and Ariel.

[CortinaDave]

I'd hardly call this a "clunker"

 

http://jalopnik.com/5327580/video-how-t ... unkers-car

[brammy777]

that is the exact video i saw.

[Gompo]

  brammy777 said:

[isnt Britains car legacy that of small sports cars? Thats seemingly okay for now, with Morgan, Caterham, Lotus and Ariel.

Yeah, and that's partly what I was suggesting. We dont have much of a recent history with (mass) car production from home-grown manufacturers so shouldnt matter to us as much, where-as the US has the Detroit etc factor yet isnt going to the lengths we are. They value their history more than us, which is partly why they are in trouble in the first place but atleast they are sticking with it.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

  cortinadave said:

I'd hardly call this a "clunker"http://jalopnik.com/5327580/video-how-t ... unkers-car

That's the kind of moronic, mindless destruction the Yanks do best. That's absolutely disgusting to watch.Sorry, but it's a bit late for the US - probably the most wasteful and consumptive country in the world - to get all 'holier than thou' about vehicle pollution.

[UglyAmerican]

  The Reverend Bluejeans said:

Sorry, but it's a bit late for the US - probably the most wasteful and consumptive country in the world - to get all 'holier than thou' about vehicle pollution.

In fairness this was really pitched to us Yanks as just a way to sell new cars. If they happen to get some old smokers off the road at the same time, then that's a fringe benefit.

[Dukestar25]

  The Reverend Bluejeans said:

  cortinadave said:

I'd hardly call this a "clunker"http://jalopnik.com/5327580/video-how-t ... unkers-car

That's the kind of moronic, mindless destruction the Yanks do best. That's absolutely disgusting to watch.Sorry, but it's a bit late for the US - probably the most wasteful and consumptive country in the world - to get all 'holier than thou' about vehicle pollution.

What a total waste of a car. What a harrowing video, that poor Volvo Regardless of who/what/where, sitting revving a car at 2000rpm for 7 minutes doesn't sound very 'green' to me plus the knackered engine now needs to be crushed/melted/recycled, which will take a lot of not-so-green energy to make happen as opposed to just removing said engine and selling it, or bits off it, to keep other similar motors running.In conclusion, not one single Government has a clue (or gives a damn) about 'being green', it's just a reason for them to attempt to justify themselves to the tree-huggers (and extract more of our money in the process)...

[woolleyiain]

It's not really gonna benefit the environment. You can turn your 16mpg truck in for an 18mpg truck and still get the $4500. Or at least you could until the Republicans got involved and started cocking around with the weight ratings and such. It's getting horribly complicated...

[garethj]

  cortinadave said:

I'd hardly call this a "clunker"http://jalopnik.com/5327580/video-how-t ... unkers-car

A Volvo S80 like that is our "proper" car. It's whisper quiet at 100mph, does 30mpg and even though it's 10 years old it'll hopefully go on for years more.What a waste in that video.And the moronic giggling when it catches fire You'd never get tired of punching those guys

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

  Dukestar25 said:

In conclusion, not one single Government has a clue (or gives a damn) about 'being green', it's just a reason for them to attempt to justify themselves to the tree-huggers (and extract more of our money in the process)...

I think the Cubans have the right idea. By the time a car is scrapped there, it is totally and utterly fucked out of it's mind and completely beyond any repair.Over here it would be 'I'm sorry Sir, but the Fagtronic autobox ECU has failed and your car is beyond economical repair".Over there it would be "Hey Pedro, your car was fucked so we dropped a 3.3 Chevy truck engine and box in. That'll be two bottles of Sambuca Amigo"What I find amazing is that car manufacturers were genuinely surprised when the arse fell out of the car market. I mean, it was going to happen at some point, so why were they not prepared?A sensible manufacturer would own all it's franchises and have a cheap efficient service network where they make as much money from service as they do sales. Whoever did that would laughing their tits off right now.

[Dukestar25]

The Reverend Bluejeans wrote:

  Quote

I think the Cubans have the right idea. By the time a car is scrapped there, it is totally and utterly fucked out of it's mind and completely beyond any repair.

My hat goes off to the Cubans (do they still drive those 50's American cars ?) this is the only time a car should be consigned to the scrapyard (unless crashed or smashed up by tossers of course). When I first started visiting scrapyards as a new driver looking for spares for my 10 year old heap, most of the cars in there were either rotten or were mechanically shagged.

 

On my last visit, most of the stuff which weren't write offs didn't have any obvious reason for being there. Even a worn clutch can render a car scrap if the cost/value arguement is brought into play. We in the west are so wasteful it's not even funny...

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

  Dukestar25 said:

On my last visit, most of the stuff which weren't write offs didn't have any obvious reason for being there. Even a worn clutch can render a car scrap if the cost/value arguement is brought into play. We in the west are so wasteful it's not even funny...

Yes, it makes me wince when I see the rows of undamaged cars. One was a 1998 Laguna 1.8 Sport. Nothing actually wrong with it because it was driven in. I sat in the turd when it was pissing with rain to avoid getting wet. In the glovebox was all the original dealer bumph from Gordon Lamb Renault and I spent about 10 mins reading through it all. It struck me then how much someone paid for it just 11 years ago. And now it's been weighed in for the price of a pair of shoes.One manufacturer than owns all it's franchises is Mercedes. Does than mean that it actually buys its own cars back when they're traded in against new ones?

[Mr Lobster]

  The Reverend Bluejeans said:

One manufacturer than owns all it's franchises is Mercedes. Does than mean that it actually buys its own cars back when they're traded in against new ones?

It doesn't own them all anymore, not sure if it ever did. What they did is about five years ago terminated their entire dealer network and offered selected dealers the franchise if they were prepared to accept the new terms of being a MB franchise. Basically this meant that they were to be branded as 'Wherever Mercecedes' rather than 'Joe Bloggs Garage' and had to have massively expensive premises that fitted the brand. It's just that because they don't carry dealer group branding they all appear to be one and the same.Actually, Citroen have done a similar thing in the last few months - terminated all their dealers and allowed them to reapply. Those with smaller / older premises or that do not operate from the areas Citroen want will be told they need to relocate or lose the franchise

[AnthonyG]

  The Reverend Bluejeans said:

One manufacturer than owns all it's franchises is Mercedes. Does than mean that it actually buys its own cars back when they're traded in against new ones?

Mercedes don't own them all, they just canned all the smaller dealers and replaced them with big groups. That, combined with the nose dive in Mercedes quality in the late 90s, resulted in a lot of pissed off customers and a lot more Audis on the road now!Manufacturers owning dealers usually ends up in really crap service,as their main reason for existence is selling ex rental/management cars - Renault Retail Group is a perfect example.

[Mr Lobster]

  AnthonyG said:

Manufacturers owning dealers usually ends up in really crap service,as their main reason for existence is selling ex rental/management cars - Renault Retail Group is a perfect example.

To be fair, most of the stock of any of the bigger dealer groups - manufacturer owned or otherwise - comes from ex daily rental stock - thats the main source of cars under twelve months old which the bigger dealers tend to stock. Course they never tell you they are ex rental....A few manuafacturers own reasonable parts of their dealer network. Ford bought the Atlantic Ford & Polar Ford groups a few years back because they were worried about too many franchises having too much power!

[UltimateJames]

It dosn`t say anything about the car catching fire in the instructions !!!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Thats unbelievable that Volvo vid, why deliberately destroy the engine internally? Seriously, why do it? "Cos its the bit that does the polluting isnt it" Oh aye, well it only does that when its running, so are you going to chop the wiring loom into a million pieces and fill the petrol tank with concrete? Why not just take the car off the road instead and 'recycle' the parts, yeah I know its a crazy idea but its got to be worth a try surely. Its just amazing what logic folk use to achieve stuff. If that is being done under any 'environmental' pretence, we are all goners already.

[AnthonyG]

  Mr_Bo11ox said:

Thats unbelievable that Volvo vid, why deliberately destroy the engine internally? Seriously, why do it? "Cos its the bit that does the polluting isnt it" Oh aye, well it only does that when its running, so are you going to chop the wiring loom into a million pieces and fill the petrol tank with concrete? Why not just take the car off the road instead and 'recycle' the parts, yeah I know its a crazy idea but its got to be worth a try surely. Its just amazing what logic folk use to achieve stuff. If that is being done under any 'environmental' pretence, we are all goners already.

Under the US scheme the engine block must be rendered inoperable. They couldn't just mandate that it not be sold on. I think the shell has to be crushed as well, although this is not as clear cut as the engine issue. As it is the United States of Attorneys, all the various lobbying groups, vested interests and the senators/congressman all had a good old barney defining engine block, whether it included the head, ancilaries etc.