Yugoslavian Ami.., continuing on from 'now-autoshites-flimsy-bodied Shitroen'

[richardmorris]

I don't like the chapron bonnet adornment. They almost work on Ds. I've also seen one on a cx that looked crap.

[3VOM]

.

The price is 9000 € to discuss in front of the car.

Please do not call me if you are really interested. "   

uh ? something wrong with the translation I'm thinking

Yes, it also translates as "Please do not call me unless you are really interested".

[Bfg]

I don't like the chapron bonnet adornment. They almost work on Ds. I've also seen one on a cx that looked crap.

 

it looks like a ruddy tea pot handle to me

 

..or a rather limp phallic something !

[2CVKeza]

[dollywobbler]

^ not seen that but thanks. That's Pete Sparrows former Ami / Alfa on the left isn't it - which subsequently went abroad ..and then scrapped ? I don't know the green 'un but nice to see RHD cars. Is the green one still on UK roads ? Both look to be lowered ..just a little !

Geoff Archer's on the left I think. The green van is Sparrows. A few pals have owned the green van. Last I heard, it was being restored, though I think the owner was trying to find a new body for it...

[Bfg]

.

..not much to report hereabouts, I've had a few days off.   But this rear wing is also taking longer to fair than I'd hoped. That's two long afternoons work now - trying to get the shape close.  Try as I might, I have to admit that good quality and fast bodywork is a craft skill that takes a lot of practice ..which I've not had !

 

hey ho ..I had hoped it to be in primer by this evening but It's not ready yet     All being well I'll get there tomorrow.   

 

^  Today I added a fill-in piece along the top-inside edge to get rid of the ugly tapered gap between panel & body (that was actually much worse with the original steel panel).  The shadows are not perfect but then again not too bad either.. for a Shitroen

 

^ At least I now don't have that unsightly join line, just forward of the rear light, which you can see in the original steel panel on the floor.  

 

..working (filling / sanding) against different colour backgrounds is not easy to see the lines clearly. I've redefined the edges as hard edges to sight along, and I think when these are softened (hand sanded) then I'm probably close enough to finish up and primer - so that I can better see where a little more work is needed.  However, I'm also aware that it's time already to get on with the other panels. 

[Bfg]

.

Those that dare ... WINNA 

 

 

oddly, they have not completed the vehicle 'model'.., so presumably on DVLA record / database search this car will not be included in the number of Ami-Supers registered or on SORN. ? 

 

.. and despite my specifically asking for it (as part of the vehicle's history), the DVLA have not returned the Slovene registration document.  I expected them to cancel it., but to not return it I think is miserable of them. 

 

Having no specific date of build in 1974, they've used 01-01-74 which gives me an M plate (historic Tax class).  I'm happy with that, even though the car was first registered on 27^th July '76.  Clearly this model was not a fast seller in Yugoslavia. 

 

The registration VMR doesn't lead to an obvious naming of this particular Yugoslavian Cimos-Shitroen Ami-Super ! ? 

...unless you guys have a better suggestion - I'll stick to 'Sami'

[500tops]

Geoff Archer's on the left I think. The green van is Sparrows. A few pals have owned the green van. Last I heard, it was being restored, though I think the owner was trying to find a new body for it...

The Alfa Ami was Pete's at the time of the SM magazine article. Later owned by Geoff. The green van was Alex Pearce's. The van now resides with a specialist in Gloucestershire. Well, what's left of it. The body was cut up. They also own perhaps the last RHD Ami Super Service. Shame it's being stored in a compound exposed to the elements, minus a side window.

[Bfg]

The Alfa Ami was Pete's at the time of the SM magazine article. Later owned by Geoff. The green van was Alex Pearce's. The van now resides with a specialist in Gloucestershire. Well, what's left of it. The body was cut up. They also own perhaps the last RHD Ami Super Service. Shame it's being stored in a compound exposed to the elements, minus a side window.

 

Thanks 'Tops.. Pete's car changed colour a number of times, seemingly according to which engine was fitted at that time, but I'm not sure which variant was the last with the Alfa Sud engine in it.   

 

Is/was the green van not then a 'Service' ?   I would have liked one of those. Two door and the very long rear wings is clean.  Any idea how many were built.?   Actually what I'd like to do is to convert my Berline to 2-door and to have a lifting hatchback/tailgate. Then it would so much more practical ..and even better looking

 

"Shame it's being stored in a compound exposed to the elements, minus a side window."  is a generous observation when one considers how prices have escalated., and how so few have survived the fate of dissolving where they stood.!   

 

 

13,599 views

[Bfg]

.

for seasoned Shiteroenian's contemplation and delectation..

 

^ not fastened ..just resting in place, in hand brushed primer ..which didn't flow at all well

(I don't like this Jotun epoxy-primer, Hempel is much better in my experience)

 

^ lower relief highlight looks a little too high in these photos.

 

 

^ There's no rear seat or any weight in the back right now, and being parked on an incline doesn't help either..  At some point in the near future I plan to lower the ride height just 1" front and 1¹/₂ - 2" rear ..it's only a small amount but I'm sure it will look better.  ..But all in all I'm happy with the more balanced wheel-arch look, so I'll do the other side to match (and leave the steel panels as original).

 

Bfg.

[RayMK]

The refurbished wing looks very neat.  Will lowering the suspension cause it to run out of travel if you take an extra bag of Werthers on board?  I remember that my 2cv6 and Dyane used to sink so much when carrying 4 people and luggage that the first passenger had to climb in and the last simply fell in.  No doubt you saw the ebay Ami with air suspension for that 'slammed' look.  Daft though it was, I would love to know how they engineered the mod, assuming that 'engineered' is not too strong a term for slammers.  

[Bfg]

.

Thank you both

 

The Ami & Ami-Super suspension springs are stiffer than either the 2cv or Dyane, so I don't think bottoming out will be a problem. And I'm not planning on carrying a family + luggage, perhaps two persons & camping gear (without the back seat in). Famous last words I know !

 

Yes, I saw that slammed look.  Citroen's M35 had, as I understand it, GS-type pneumatic suspension and so photos of that often show it crouched.  Too far down for my old back when climbing in I fear.!  Getting into the super is already bad enough for someone of my size.  I think I'll need to level the seat to slide across more easily, presently the outside tubular seat frame threatens a wedgie every time I get in 

   

The style* I'm going for is a combination of being a little more practical to live with, and generally to balance the visual weights of the car, ie., "looks factory ...but Citroen didn't do that ?"   So, nothing extreme ..but rather in keeping with it being a Q car (..it looks like an Ami-8 but goes surprisingly* well ).

 

..Talking about style..

^  :lol:

 

(gaffer tape stuck to my face is the best way I've yet found to stop my glasses from keep steaming up when I'm sanding the fibreglass !)

[Bfg]

.

Bollocks.. If only I had done this wing first.. I wouldn't have bothered !

 

^ crap quality doesn't even start to describe this panel.

 

^ crazed and cracked right through numerous layers of paint (x6 layers), filler (x2 layers), and through the gelcoat itself.

 

 

^ All surface gelcoat removed, cut back to the glass fibres.  This will take some time restore*.  The lighter cream colour patches are bare fibreglass (without gelcoat now).  The black ripples (like a wet sandy beach) is what's left of the gelcoat.

 

Bottom line being that the panel should have been scrapped, but seeing as that the only one I have, and the fact that I've just done the work on the LHS.. it had to be sanded back to the glass fibres (ie., most of the gelcoat had to be ground off..) 

It had looked much the same as the LH rear wings, except that rather than undoing three screws it was as if someone had ripped the fuel filler pipe out.  But underneath the thick layer of paint (with crazing) was  badly crazed gelcoat, that someone had tried to bury under a mass of filler and several thick paint layers.  This was not crazed by stress, but because the gelcoat hadn't gone off before fibreglass was applied (..perhaps someone forgot to add catalyst ) causing it to shrink and ripple..   

 

I will now have to stabilise the surface before rebuilding the finished surface, otherwise whatever paint I put on there will likewise craze.  

 

    

[Bfg]

.

. . just needs tweaking ..

^ ..you can see, even before I cut the 'arch' out, how flat the panel is besides the wheel.. it looks almost concave from this angle.   .,and this shows as an angle between the rear door and the panel.  The top front corner of this panel doesn't match very well either.!   

 

^  ..pretty white work-bench Pete !    (..waste not, want not ..left over epoxy primer at the time I repainted the LHS wing).  oh yes, when laid on the flat bench the wheelarch cutout was in fact concave (bowed in) !

 

^ the mid-panel relief is supposed to be a little convex, this one had shrunk to be a little concave (it's probably 1/4 - 3/8" out of shape), which would suggest that the fibreglasser had noted his mistake (not adding catalyst to the gel) and so added it instead to the fibreglass layers - which caused a really hot mix - that in turn shrinks much more (thus causing the distortion in shape).  

 

In my attempt to rectify the situation, : I've applied fresh GRP to both sides of the panel's relief, and rebuilt the inner flange. These will cure under the weight of a row of six paving bricks + a trolley jack + tensioning cord.  I hoping this will restore the convex shape.. but it's just so hit n' miss to know how much pre-bend need be set ..and what will spring back when the weights are removed. 

 

I'll have to wait until Monday to find out if I got it near right ..or have gone way too far !   

 

[500tops]

Looking good. Yes, the green van of Alex Pearce was a Super Service. Think it was originally saved by Richard Reynolds of Aust, near Bristol in or around 1988. Later passed to the Sobey's who in turn passed it to Alex, perhaps via Pete. Certainly a well known van within the club. Such a shame it ended up as a bunch of cuts/panels. It deserved so much more. As regards RHD production figures; I reckon somewhere in the double figures...

[Bfg]

.

^ convex shape restored

 

^ From trial fit it was obvious that I've over-did the depth in the panel, so here I've cut the inner web to adjust that in different places ..and I'm now probably close enough to make it work.  

 

The next task was to add the bow (as before) to fill out the longitudinal flattening (over the wheel).  _\/

^ the top attachment flange has also been given a couple of layers of glass fibre (this panel had been ripped off the car and all but one of the bolts was loose and twisted. And where the fuel filler had been torn out has now been rebuilt.

 

Although more time consuming, it is in my view it's better to try and achieve a decent shape / lines through reshaping ..rather than just to slap more and more filler on it.  So while the second (RHS) panel was curing I went back to the first (LHS) and sanded it down.  

 

 

I've come to the realization that if I'm to get this car done (this year) and also get my (would-be liveaboard) boat back in the water (also this year), and to rebuild a couple of engines so that I might sell couple of bikes (this year) ..and generally to move on with life - then I'm going to have to pay someone to repaint this car for me.  Can anyone recommend someone who does a decent yet affordable paint job in East Anglia ?  please

[Bfg]

.

Trimmed the feathered edges of yesterday's grp, recut the fuel filler hole, and re-drilled/refitted the top flange's four mounting studs. But otherwise I've been fighting today to try and get each of the various planes of the door shut to sit 'close enough'.  The end of day photo (below) shows the (light and runny) skim of filler used to fill the pinholes (from poor laminating and now no gelcoat), to give a more even colouring and to highlight the relief's edges.  But the upper flange isn't tough enough to hold the top front corner in tight, so tomorrow I'll add a reinforcement web (to hold that more securely). 

 

^ thankfully the shadow (deliberate from the camera's flash - seen on the floor) shows the bow is now holding the wheelarch to a much nicer line, to blend in with the doors.  As with the left-hand-side, this is better than I managed with the original steel panels.  Darn.. it looks almost deliberate !

 

but with all this physical work ..I'm dog tired   ..and it's only Monday !

13,798 views

[trigger]

Your doing really well Peter, hopefully I'll see it at some point on the road over the summer?

[Bfg]

Can't you just leave the 4 by 2 in place?

 

^  It's surely an idea worthy of consideration., but the other end is against the garage wall, and I don't know how the Building Reg's tie in with the MOT ?  For example, I'd be anxious about getting an MOT advisory for the garage door lock not being EC / CE approved for highways.   ..Fortunately, the timber itself  is over 300mm from chassis, suspension, or seat belt mounting ..and it's a detached garage - so I might get away with it.     

 

..And a special big thanks to you guys & gals for your comments and likes..  It does help encourage all of the workforce (me) after I've faced dust and dimensional deviation all day !

 

"hopefully I'll see it at some point on the road over the summer?"  That's the plan  ..to use it and hopefully to join you all retro's at your waterside soiree some beautiful summer evening (..unless some kind soul comes and buys the car off me in the meantime ).

[Bfg]

.

phew.. gusting 60mph here in Suffolk   ..it's weather to make one glad not to wear a toupée  or a kilt ! 

 

So, having decided not to drive around with a garage wall attached to a timber - yesterday I straightened out and reinforced the top return flange.  I also extended the boot shut return (which overlaps the drain gutter) by another 1/2".   Although it's pretty close to the designed shape of the original steel panel, I might go back at some time to do the same on the LHS wing as this side now looks better, and it'll give me another screw fastening to hold the panel in shape.

 

Today having trimmed the feathered edges of yesterday's grp and refitted the top flange's attachment studs, I'm 'close enough' in panel shape (particularly down the rear door shut) to extend the rear door shut face (as I did on the LHS rear wing, from 8-10mm to 25-30mm). 

 

 

^ using blue masking tape again as a temporary mould, you can see here the wet laminate of the new shut face ..with this n' that blocks, pieces of card & wedges supporting it.

 

The inner web that I'd been using (cutting & shoving) to get the shape 'close enough' is seen running almost parallel beside the new web.  There's also a flange on the body's door shut (with the rear door striker plate attached to it) and that takes a rubber lip seal, which sits inbetween these two (grp webs) to keep any mud splatter from coming as far forward as the door shut.    

 

The grp is now curing, and so although just 3 o'clock I'm taking the rest of the day off .. yippee  

[Bfg]

.

not really much to show as progress recently..

 

^ The rear wing's door shut was subsequently trimmed and this grp panel now fits very much better.. There's lots of finishing work to go yet, but before I move on with that - I wanted to address the overall panel fit of this car. 

 

An unforeseen (on my part) consequence of the structural restoration work, was that the front LHS door subsequently scraped on the front-wing's shut-return every time it was opened or closed. As previously conveyed.. in working through the adjustment of that door and wing - I realised that the LHS door apertures in the body are ¼" further forward than the RHS.  

 

More recently, while trying to get this RHS rear wing to fit - I discovered the bottoms of the doors are tighter to the sill on the RHS., with an extra ½" gap on the LHS.   And just for laughs - the rear RHS wing is ½" or more higher than the LHS  (as highlighted by the rear lights no longer being equally level with the Ami-8's chrome strip across the boot lid). 

 

^ This is the case whether grp or the original steel panels are fitted. To be fair, there were probably production tolerances from new anyway ..and this car had been worked on before ..but the photos of this car (as bought) didn't reflect these discrepancies. 

 

Never-the-less it is what it is.., and it needed adjusting* before I moved on with finishing the shape the rear wings.  So that's what I've been doing these last couple of days.. 

 

Having previously set up the LHS of the car as best to the door frame apertures as I could (without scraping the return shut of the front wing - by moving that forward), I have in turn now moved the RHS front wing further forward. This was necessary because the bonnet aperture was lozengered (so the grille panel's gap to the bonnet was unequal ).  Thereafter I had to close the gap between the RHS front door and the wing. So, then the rear door moved to equalise the shut gaps. At the same time I spacered the rear door out a little, and tilted both down very slightly towards the back of the car.   

 

As said in a previous post, the RHS A-post pressing / door-hinge mounting is now too high, so the vertical screw adjusters are at their very limit. And then the 'tilt' also necessitated a little bit of filing to the holes in the rear-door's striker-plate's mounting ..as it too had reached its limit of adjustment. But hey ho nothing too drastic...

 

Of course, I couldn't go too far with any of this because otherwise the unevenness of gap around the door's window frames then becomes too obvious.

 

Minute adjustments at the hinges makes seemingly huge changes of the gaps and at the latch. Let's just say - it's been a very slow and systematically repetitive process.   The result is not as nice and tight as it might have been, but perhaps I'm just so focused on it that I'm seeing everything more critically than others might.   Until I look again in the morning (!) ..I think I'm about as close to best compromise as I can get ..And  I did manage to drop the back edge of the back door by some 5mm

 

^ The rear wing is shown still aligned to where the doors were before. So hopefully, when the rear wing is adjusted then (right back at the tail lamp) we might see a 7 or perhaps 8mm improvement to what it is now.

 

It's been a learning curve ! 

13,999 views

[RayMK]

You are doing a grand job and, as you suggested, are probably being super-critical.  While it is true that some pre-restoration photos may show a better alignment for certain panels and trim on your car, I have seen nearly new Ami 8s in showrooms which have had almost comical variations in gaps and trim alignment when compared to standards of the day.  It has to be said, however, that Moskvitch and Renault, particularly with the R4, were more amusing.  And yes, I am aware that Renault, with delightful Frenchness, could not see any valid reason for having the wheelbase the same on each side.

 

I suspect that, with the extensive restoration your car required, the cost of guaranteeing factory levels of fit would be prohibitive as it requires heavy body jigs which also allow access, and also needs much more time in order to achieve such precision.  Your diligence will certainly further improve your Ami but your effort is free.  Many people will simply admire it without letting their concours genes go to town.

 

Anyway, very well done.  I hope that you will fall in love with the car and keep it.  Sod the bank manager  .

[Bfg]

.

Howzat !

^ The boot lid's chrome strip (actually stainless) is 17.5mm top to bottom, so I'm really pleased to manage to get the top line of this side's rear lamp almost level with the lower edge of the strip too.  It took a bit more filing, re-drilling, and adjustments to make it happen, but I'm happy now to proceed with re-finishing that wing. 

 

Thanks for y'all's support  

[forddeliveryboy]

Better panel alignment than any Ami I remember seeing! Keep up the good work.

[Bfg]

.

first edge defining skim..

 

Despite my working with chronic tennis elbow - it's been decent weather so I could work part of the day with the garage door open, and seeing progress means I'm happier now.

[Bfg]

.

Another week ...oh no another month (!) has passed under the bridge. 

 

This afternoon I called a halt to my piddling around with this panel. " It's bloody close enough"  I cried out in frustration ..wiped it off and gave it a coat of epoxy primer.   I'm not a pro' and this crappy grp panel has taken far too long.. but now it's good to go.  So, time to move on.  

 

 

^ Ami aficionados (AKA rivet-counter, nerd or geek) might note the extra flange added along / near the top edge ..to close what on the steel panels was an 'original'  tapering 1/8 - 1/2" gap.  And again up besides the rear lamp, which follows (more or less) the line of the boot lid, to close that wildly eccentric tapering (1/4" - 3/4" !) shut gap.  The top flange I'd already added on the LH R-wing but I now need to go back to add the upright flange / boot-lid shut to the left side.

 

14,143 views

[Bfg]

.

 

edit : picture added..

 

[Bfg]

.

I've taken a few days off because my elbow is giving me jip.. but things must move on so I pulled the car out to turn it around and while at it cleaned the garage and cleared a little more working space near the door as I now want to get on with the front panels.

 

I've also tried to readjust the LHS front wing, to make it tighter to its door and to correct the line a little better ...not very successfully I might add

^ This appears to have been taken before I spaced out the rear door to correct its bottom line.

 

..before pulling things apart I just wanted to do a quick mod on the front bumpers.. This (below) is as it was, with the inside of the bumper having been rubbing on the wing (negligible clearance where the arrow is, with significant paint-off scratches just out of sight below it)..

^ the black felt pen line marks the intended cut.

 

and this is how it looks now ...

^ bumper trimmed off to the aforementioned black-felt-pen line, so as to not scratch the wing's paint off again., and imo looking more elegant.

 

^  I've also rounded its front edge corners (under the grille) to make it look deliberate (rather than they just being cropped off square).  And then spent 15 minutes with the polisher to get rid of 40+ years of surface scratches. Thankfully these bumpers are stainless, so there was no chrome to polish through or otherwise to get pitted. 

 

Isn't it strange how a cheap car can have ss bumpers and headlamp surrounds, whereas others use plated ferrous steel.?

 

Bfg

14,296 views

[Bfg]

.

^ I've just got to do something about those cables sometime. ! 

 

^ Autoshiter's tools for panel beating and correcting buggered flanges (NB. the adjustable spanner is not being used to undo nut & bolts !).   The outer-edge flange (where a lip seal held water) is a little perforated., but generally speaking the panel is in really good condition..

 

^ trued all the edges ..and with surface rust removed it's looking much better  ..but I've never known such flimsy panels on a car before.. And this panel also carries the spare wheel     It's absolutely astounding that these inner wheel-arches hadn't completely dissolved years ago  ..weird ! 

 

Note to self : anti-drumming / acoustic pads will be required !

 

^ I pulled a jam-jar of hydrochloric acid out from the back of the shed ..and its metal lid had completely dissolved  

 

^ acid brushed on and being left for an hour ..before rinsing off and drying.

..wonderful stuff !

[Bfg]

.

..not much achieved this week as I sorta got volunteered to help fix a friend's Sunbeam.  Electrical faults caused by mechanics hating to do electrics so using the cheapest connections they can possibly buy, and even then hastily bodging the job..  one fault lead to the next and so it went on. Can't complain as the lady owner (former client) was fantastic when I started that business. 

 

 

Doing that and progress since has not been helped by the ol' tennis elbow giving me jip. Work stopped today after getting the last of (a little) fibreglassing done ..Now I'll just to rest the elbow and even pick up my tea cup with my left hand   

 

..anyways up onwards and upwards, or rather backwards and down under as occasionally happens ..and we're back to..

 

As per the last post.. the inner front wings are the object of my attention.  I need to get them repainted before the car can be used (for fear of them dissolving into rust dust).  So I've now removed and reinforced the outer & rear flange of each.. 

 

the problem with each side was this..

^ the outer edge (where the rubber seal clipped on held moisture) was perforated and in places cracked. 

 

^ the cracks I welded to restore the essence of structure along those edges, and in this one short piece where the flange had all but completely rusted away, I inset a repair strip (..reclaimed parcel shelf for those who remember my cutting it out).  It's not at all easy to weld such thin rusted metal when  a.) I'm really not that good a welder, and b.) the equipment I got is a cheap home-quality mig.  Nevertheless to say it's now strong enough to hold its shape, especially considering what I was about to do next... I reasoned that the inner wings' outside and rear flanges need a little help... 

 

 

^ rather than bit by bit trying to rebuild the frayed, perforated edge of the flange with weld and repair strips - I've fibreglass encapsulated it.  After thorough cleaning it up, I used a smear of U-Pol B fibreglass bridging paste on both sides of the metal (..that stuff sticks really well, even to steel), and then glass-fibred over that (again on both inside & outside). The flange's filigreed edge made an excellent key for the fibreglass!  

 

and once trimmed..

^  ..it is half as deep again as it was, and being thicker will not buckle or crack easily.  Once painted - the moisture will be sealed out. And with the flange being deeper - I can now use self-adhesive neoprene strip between the inner and outer wings, rather than the metal-cored clip-on seal.   

 

In places like this (below) it's just a mud trap waiting to rot through again ..

^ that top back corner overlaps the bulkhead shelf, and in doing so creates a mud trap which Janez had to repair (on both sides of the bulkhead).  To resolve that I'll make and fit a rubber flap to keep the mud out.  I'll also drill a hole through the back corner into the engine bay so hot air hereafter dries any moisture in that corner. 

 

..so that was about it for the whole week..  It didn't take long but with bike and elbow that was enough.   Both sides are now done although the RHS still needed trimming. Once the steel is cleaned up one final time I can paint them now.

 

oh., and while I had the grp out again, I did add a flange to lessen the boot-lid's shut gap on the LHS wing, to match what I'd done on the RHS. _\/

 

Have a good weekend

Bfg

14,424 views