Citroen CX Technical question

[scooters]

Fait attention rosbifs!

 

J'ai un problem avec mon CX25....

 

ok that's enough of that.

 

Just been tarting up the old CX Gti for it's MOT tomorrow morning and low and behold OMG THE DRIVERZ FOOTWEL IS FUL OV WARTER..

well - pretty damp anyway...now it's not coolant - everyone knows that Scooter's owned cars have sparkly bule coolant - blue 'cos it's lots of antifreeze and sparkly form the K seal I run as leak protection.

This water is almost certainly rain water and the car has been sat outside in the awful weather for the last 4-5 weeks.

 

Being French and a Citroen the air intake louvre to the car doesn't sook in the air anywhere logical - instead it comes into the car from a louvre on the bonnet and unlike other cars who might angle the louvres these are open vertically allowing rain to pour into the intake...afterall mon amis the weather in france is usually bon n'est pas? Who gives a snail about the barbarous ecossais and their inclement weather? 

 

Now I read somewhere on the interweb that this is a common issue because a drain in the intake pipework gets blocked with crud and as a result the water is channeled into the driver's footwell - as a result in bad weather it is easily blocked - but I am jiggered if I can find the article that covers this or the location of the said drain.

 

Can anyone of you who have owned a CX recall or know where I could check - I'm not a member of any of the citroen forums at present.

 

merci

 

Richard

[Junkman]

The drain for the interior intake is actually quite bulletproof and hardly prone to clog up.

I suspect a different CX trait, and that's a foam rubber seal insulating the body in the bulkhead area from the chassis.

This gets soaked, and in turn the carpet in the footwell gets wet.

The remedy is to ignore it and drive the car, it will dry eventually. You can help with non-clumping cat litter.

[forddeliveryboy]

hi Richard, try this page: http://www.citroencarclub.org.uk/drupal/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9438&sid=e4dbd3c9d5238e49b4b1e53df365428b

 

The water getting past a channel along the top of the inner front wing is something I've stored in my memory, Graeme remembers it also I see. Think it can be accessed without removing the wing panel, but can't be sure. Other possibilities are included in the post.

 

I agree with Junkman, the air intake is very unlikely indeed to fill up and overflow into the cabin - also it's very easy to access and remove, takes a couple of minutes. Check your steering and brake valve pipes (esp the rubber ones) if down there. They're rarely seen, it's the rubber ones which give out eventually, the others aren't in the salt spray.

 

Hope that's of some help.

[richardmorris]

No chance at all of it being the air-intake I'm afraid. Does it have a sunroof? Make sure the drains are clear, also it wouldn't hurt to take the door panels off and make sure all the appertures are sealed. Mine leaked from the sunroof mainly but also inner front wing to bulkhead joints as mentioned by Junkman. But, as I'm sure you've found, the kapock foam can soak up an awful lot of water and will sit there all year until the floors rot out.

[Bren]

" Citroen cx technical question."

 

Must be on a par with " large hadron collider technical question."

[scooters]

yes - dark matter indeed - better take it to switzerland eh? Higgs Bosun or whatever it's called.

No sunroof on this one - doors are in ok nick as are apertures - safe to say this has only been like this since I stood it up under a tree last month and a load of plant matter has fallen over it and flippin buds in every possible hole -

 

thanks all

[richardmorris]

Lack of sunroof is a major plus then. How's the windscreen seal?  And one odd spot that initially leaked on my series2 was the roof aerial mounting. Squirted a load of Vaseline in and it was fine for the next six years. The door seals themselves are also worth looking at - they seam to let water in on the rear edge which then runs round to the low spot which is about 20cm from the A pillar.

[scooters]

I'll check those as well. I went for one without a sunroof after the CX22 I used to have once poured a few gallons of ice cold water down my neck when reversing up hill with the sunroof open on a cold bright November morning. The drains were blocked with ice and the whole lot came shooting up the front of the car and literally poured down my neck. I was in a suit and late for a meeting. Many expletives and racist comments directed towards our garlic munching cousins

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Tetleysmooth]

Are the scuttle panel drains clear, monsewer?

 

My old Carltons used to get wet inside when the scuttle panel drains were blocked with leaves and other detritus.

[forddeliveryboy]

Did it pass?

[scooters]

tester's wee boy cut his foot open last night, cut a tendon and had an op today - MOT is tomorrow - pre test is good though

[scooters]

WOOO HOOOOOO!

passed - 1 advisory - back discs will need looking at in about 2000 miles or so. the hydraulic fluid return has a minor leak - turns out the tester is a big big citroen fan and I'm hoping he didn't spunk his load over the seats

I've celebrated by ordering some new bits for it including:

-arsey yellow headlight bulbs so I can sneer in a gallic way at rosbifs in their Kia's

-a new coil pack (the 25 has 2 of these one for each pair of cylinders) the terminal for Number 1 is in a vulnerable location which can result in the bonnet being dropped on it (if you leave a spanner on top doesn't help) and it can get damaged. This happened to me and stranded me on the M8 for 2 hours until i decided it wasn't a fuelling issue and gave everything a wiggle - hey presto she bursts into life!

-A new boot catch system - for some daft reason PSA decided to make the actual catch out of plastic....so they break....44 Euros second hand!

-A spare blank key!

 

Next on the list is to sort out the rear wing dent although there is somthing to be said for driving around in a ropey disreputable old big cit - or is that a bit too Patrick Jane?

[forddeliveryboy]

Good news.

Who cares about a dent? Too many old cars are restored into something which they never were, so not really restored at all - just pimped.

 

I miss France with its cars in various states of repair - the big older Cits in particular could develop real menace as they aged, sitting in the street, down on their bump stops, rusty and dented panels where parking or a drop too much wine had taken its toll, bent bumper bars, yellow bulbs glinting from the back of massive reflectors. adopting an almost sleazy demeanour yet with a hint of dishevelled and colourful Africa to boot. Big BMWs from the 70s managed to do the same.

[richardmorris]

Are the scuttle panel drains clear, monsewer?

 

My old Carltons used to get wet inside when the scuttle panel drains were blocked with leaves and other detritus.

 

 

Being a CX, and thus different, there aren't any scuttle panel drains as such. The water is directed to the sides where it runs down the inside of the front wings. And then into the car when they rust through.

[scooters]

Good news.

Who cares about a dent? Too many old cars are restored into something which they never were, so not really restored at all - just pimped.

 

I miss France with its cars in various states of repair - the big older Cits in particular could develop real menace as they aged, sitting in the street, down on their bump stops, rusty and dented panels where parking or a drop too much wine had taken its toll, bent bumper bars, yellow bulbs glinting from the back of massive reflectors. adopting an almost sleazy demeanour yet with a hint of dishevelled and colourful Africa to boot. Big BMWs from the 70s managed to do the same.

 

 

One thing I miss and I regret my kids will never see is a period before globalisation where designers had the freedom to focus on national markets,  international were often second thoughts unless US .Designs could follow national stereotypes  the Italians still do it but we don;t since the demise of Rover and the french gave up years ago.

[forddeliveryboy]

One thing I miss and I regret my kids will never see is a period before globalisation where designers had the freedom to focus on national markets,  international were often second thoughts unless US .Designs could follow national stereotypes  the Italians still do it but we don;t since the demise of Rover and the french gave up years ago.

 

I'd have thought your kids will have a better idea of what well-designed indigenous motors used to be like, given you've the last of the decent CXs, a 2000 (my Dad's had overdrive which used to switch in and out according to the weather, the wipers would auto-start according to the road) and a Beta coupe?

 

But agree totally, it's a bland world of global CAD out there. I think we're living through the last decade when affordable, older motors from that generation are still useable. Children strapped into the back of a Matiz or Golf will have one part of their brains seriously undeveloped. We should remember that before the 1920s, few children had any experience of engines or motorbikes, let alone cars. There were fields, streets, metal hoops and sticks, dolls and prams and maybe a rocking horse to allow dreams of dashing around the country at huge speed.

 

We're the lucky generation with huge freedom, the ability to travel unhindered and fairly clean air to breathe (pre-Chinese and Indian Westernisation), little radiation in our food, air and water even after Sellafield/Windscale, Chernobyl and Fukushima - but generations to come will be taught at school we were all poisoned with exhaust fumes and grew up with lung disease with many shattered legs from motorbike accidents. The 20th century will be made to sound like the dark ages with no internet, two world wars and most of the world living in shacks. They'll fail to mention freedom, motorbikes and motorcars.

 

'Zero-emission' electric vehicles will run on nuclear and coal power which will probably have to proliferate to power these things if renewables are kept on the back-burner as at present. There'll be far more disease and cancers from radiation and other pollution as well as from a lifetime of crap food, with little of the fun for the average person which we've been used to. The govt will always know what speed you're travelling if in your own transport and fine you accordingly, online. All the crude oil left will be going to make artificial chemicals in an attmept to keep food growing and keep humans alive. But there will still be that human need for freedom, for fun, for carefree times - and it will be found, somehow, somewhere, away from virtual reality.

[scooters]

and we'll all be speaking feckin Russian!

 

I'm not a fan of modern car design. I think it goes a long way to why there is increased aggression on the road. I blame VAG and especially Audi for starting it with aggressive headlight and grill styling, black alloys etc...Saab piled in there and then even Rover tried it with the ghastly facelifted 75..if a car doesn;t look like laser guns are going to come out of it's grill then it's not worth driving. More than ever it has become the substitute phallus for the sad suburban c*nt stuck behind the wheel. 

 

In the 60's and 70's they understood this and cars were styled to look non threatening. Nowadays they aggressively defend their occupants by cocooning them from the outside world in layers of plastic and armour. all this does imho is make people more careless and less considerate of other people on the roads...it turns the most charming people into aggressive pricks when behind the wheel. driving some cars can actually relax me. I find the CX particularly relaxing to drive, no stress, nothing to prove etc etc. Whereas a new 3 series I hired seemed to flick a switch in my head.

 

One of the best advertising campaigns I ever saw was in london circa 2005/6 - Transport for London put up loads of billboards with "look out for each other" aimed at road users and pedestrians. It was very effective because it made folk stop and think for a minute and start to actually give a monkeys about others.

 

Obviously when the BWC (Beige Wedge Complex) seizes power and I am tyrant anyone driving a new audi now will be sent to the cheshire salt mines and given a spoon to dig with so it will no longer be a problem.

We'll be taking applications for the cheka next week if you are interested? The nylon uniforms are ex UPS 1970s in poo brown

[forddeliveryboy]

I'm not the biggest fan of big cars with 4 pot engines and front drive. But a good CX (when not ruined by iffy garage mechanics) is relaxing, you're right. (As is an old 900 turbo). Even at speeds at which you'd be either breaking into a cold sweat or having your vertebrae shock tested, constantly. When I used them almost daily, any other big, fast car felt vaguely ridiculous, just as a CX feels other-worldly to a novice. They slow the heartbeat, reduce the blood pressure and you always arrive somewhere in a better mood than in which you set off, a lot sooner than you expect.

 

They just don't give instant gratification for the cheap-thrills-seekers. They're quiet, smooth, intellectual yet involving as the high pressure hydraulics make it feel as if you're flying a plane rather than rolling along the ground.

 

My Maikonics was ridiculously quick - it says it all that the springing and damping was standard, yet there were no handling issues. The faster you went, the better it got. And people moved out of your way, let you in, stared, smiled, it was like being a time-traveller. If whoosing along at well past the ton and you saw plod, there wasn't the usual tensing, heart-racing and intake of breath there usually is when you shove on a brake pedal and nosedive - instead a little raise of the eyebrows, a progressive squeeze to make sure the rear calipers pulled hard, the car would lose speed as if you'd launched a drag chute and you'd whisper past at 82 on the speedo. They'd know you hadn't been doing 70, but without the customary nosedive when drivers stand on the brakes from high speeds, there would be little to announce how fast you really had been progressing. Unless there was a speed gun - in which case you'd have known a little earlier - I never went without the radar detectors.

[scooters]

I'm a bigger fan of rear wheel drive straight 6 cars (the XJ6, Triumph 2000 and BMW Baur are all that) for handling and smoothness they are all fantastic. The only exceptions I make are for CX,XM and BX all of which are 4 pot (usually) and front wheel drive. The engines in the CX especially the push rod 2.5 I have is an unsophisticated lump of iron - remember, the CX was to have been a rotary engine but they realised that this was one step too mad and bunged in the old DS lump instead. Mind you, with the suspension, steering, brakes and everything else barking mad about it you don;t notice it and there's no timing belt to worry about - 300k between rebuilds - pay off is you struggle to get 25mpg on a run

 

or - hot hatches in Mk2 Golf GTti or 205 1.6Gti form

[cort1977]

Did a Citroen rotary ever see the light of day?   My faulty memory says no but when my lottery numbers come up restoration of an early CX and dropping in a wankel unit would be high on the list.

[forddeliveryboy]

I don't lump the Peugeot part Citroens into the same basket as the real thing - they're nothing like. But I do like the 'modern' corrosion-resistance. Good suspension takes more than LHM and spheres. But having said that, I once enjoyed a late BX n/a dizzler and the XMs can sort of appeal, but at really high speeds on demanding roads they reveal their plebian underpinnings. The Hydractive 2 is ace, but valved and pressured wrongly for GB. I once modded spheres for a friend and he swore he went everywhere at least 10mph faster. The old Pug 2,1 is a good lump, as strong as the old Citroen fours.

 

The 2.5 Citroen lumps were never as smooth as the 2.4s, the turbo smoothed things nicely and allowed longer gearing. My turbo rarely revs harder than 3500, I think that's well over a hundred. Bit like an old RR or Bentley, low revs = relaxation. There's a lot of metal in the engines and it's the only four which doesn't tire me on a really long trip, probably because at 90-110 it's below the 4000rpm 4 cyl boom. I wouldn't fancy a 3 speed 2.5 auto, a bit harsh on the M-way. If I lived in Germany, I'd choose a stright six or V8 Mercedes. Their roads are smooth and no four banger is pleasant at sustained 130+.

 

It's unsophisticated - at least that's what the journalists always described it as probably because it didn't rev like an Onda - but lasts as long as a OM603 Merc diesel (600,000 miles not a problem ime) and I've always found the turbos decent on fuel - 29 driven sensibly, 24 when around the 100 mark. Once knew someone with a (n/a) 2.5 GTi and he struggled to beat 24, perhaps the turbos' longer gearing helps. Just as likely, there are good examples and bad - especially when quarter of a century old. I thought 29 on a long run at 80 ish very good for such a fast and accomplished car. The Maikonics one never did more than 26.

[forddeliveryboy]

Did a Citroen rotary ever see the light of day?   My faulty memory says no but when my lottery numbers come up restoration of an early CX and dropping in a wankel unit would be high on the list.

 

Yes, they sent lots of Amis ('M35') out with the engine, on test, to good customers. They bought all back (apart from one or two which owners refused to sell), and did the same with a GS 'birotor' - the fuel crisis and high purchase price ended that model. The CX was intended to have flat fours for slower incarnations and triple-rotor units for the faster models, but instead inherited the big four from the DS when the rotary couldn't be made sufficiently good on fuel.

 

Citroen even had a helicopter with a twin rotor Comotor in it, with 180hp. http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/wankel/wankel2.html

 

The engine really helped finish Citroen off, it's a shame Honda weren't allowed to buy them - it would have been mutually more beneficial than being acquired by reluctant and conservative Peugeot, who has pretty much reduced them to a 'pile it high, sell it cheap' brand. NSU engineers had a slightly better time, engineering the '82 Audi 100.

 

The largely unknown project through the 50s and 60s with hydraulic motors and hydrostatic transmission http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/hydraulics/hydraulics-2.html (scroll down the page) showed much more promise than the Comotor project ever did - thirty prototypes were fitted with the system and covered over 700,000 miles. No need for a clutch, gearbox, driveshafts or brakes, the engine ran much more efficiently at optimum revs plus there is the option of regen braking if used with tanks for compressed gas storage. These are at least 3x more efficient than the regen braking systems used in today's EVs and hybrids.

 

Noise was the problem, since resolved by others. Peugoet killed this project, but PSA is talking about using a Bosch hydraulic hybrid drive later in the decade, http://jalopnik.com/5979197/peugeot-citroens-crazy-117-mpg-hybrid-finds-an-exciting-new-use-for-air

[forddeliveryboy]

I saw a CX on the road today, a rather nice Series 1 saloon. I'd almost forgotten how lithe it looks when on the road, how low, how totally different from anything else - and how un-aged the shape has remained. For a four seater saloon, it's pretty awesome. The super-wide front track and low body lends a very imposing view in the mirror - no need to resort to some of the crazy overdone grilles which modern cars use to hide their utter mundane-ness. It's more conventionally beautiful than a DS in saloon form - the DS Break is awesome, the CX break quite box-like. It's also the only Citroen to have the diravi steering other than the SM (ignoring French market XMs), which elevates it onto another level. I was left smiling for a while - it was being driven fast and made the string of Audis and BMW it was passing look as if they had Parkinson's.

 

It's structure is bloody clever, too - a coach manufacturer's engineer-in-chief I knew almost fell over backwards when he saw the two massive subframes linked by the lithe front to rear 'longeron' members onto which the shell is bolted, solving several problems at once in a similar way to some better coaches. "How could they afford the complexity at the prices they were charging?" he said, knowing that a CX was little more than half the price of a BMW with similar speed. NVH is massively improved, the body can act as the car's twisting and bending strength without being compromised into absorbing the suspension shocks and loads, or support the weight of the oily bits.

 

Even before the monocoque (which the company had introduced in '34) had been adopted by all the big manufacturers, Citroen realised its massive drawback - to be sufficiently strong it had to be bloody heavy - as most moderns confirm. An egg is the lightest, strongest structure but hasn't got 4 holes for the doors and even bigger yawning gaps for the bonnet and boot. Nor does it have suspension stuck up into it, and have to absorb potholes in the way a car body does. The DS was much less of a unitary construction than the '34 Traction Avant, the CX showed the ideal approach, something which some manufacturers are considering today. The BMW i3 uses a very similar technique.