Non fault insurance claim.

[Mr Lobster]

Because you're not at fault and dealing with the other parties insurance company it is irrelevent that the repair exceeds market value; they have a duty to put you back in the position you were in pre accident and if you want your 2003 Honda fixed or a replacement of equal standard they must provide.

 

It will be a nightmare arguing for this but ultimately that is the position and if you fight them hard enought that is what they must give you.

 

Sort of. If the repair cost £10k and the car is worth £2 then you can't force them to spend £10k on the repair but they would have to give you full market value of the car IIRC (its a while since I was involved in this sort of thing).

 

Basically, you shouldn't be left in a worse position because of it.

 

Also, re hire / courtesy / replacement cars. Theres a subtle yet significant difference in this which is down to who supplies the car. If it is a courtesy car belonging to the bodyshop (so typically an Aygo or something little) then your / their insurer isn't getting bummed for it - the repaired provides it as part of their deal with the insurer. If it is a like for like replacement provided by a rental / credit hire company then someone somewhere along the line is getting it big time. I was talking to a friend last week about a chap he works with - 3 series has been in the bodyshop for 6 weeks and he has a replacement from a credit hire company at a cost of £120 PER DAY.

 

When I did rental we used to love providing none fault replacements as the mark up was ridiculously massive. A Micra to an ordinary punter was about £19 / day if you walked into uncle Arnies and hired it yourself. If you went through the none fault accident scheme then the exact same car to the same customer was £75 per day. And that was three years ago so probably gone up since.

 

The ridiculous rates charged for credit hire replacement cars is one of the reasons claims add up so very quickly.

[robinmasters]

There's some fairly bad advice on this thread.

 

As you're claiming through someone else's insurance, they shouldn't be writing off the car, or taking it anywhere, without your say-so. As usual, the 'don't accept their first offer' bollocks has been trotted out; they don't pluck a figure out of the air, a qualified motor engineer inspects it, tells them is worth x, they offer x. It's not worth their time or effort trying to knock a few hundred quid off.

 

They don't have to repair your car. They have to put you back in the same financial position you were in before the accident; so, they fix the car, OR pay you it's market value. Market value, ie the private sale figure in Glasses, adjusted up our down on mileage and condition (I'm surprised no-one has wheeled out the 'they only offer trade' chestnut yet )

 

If you need a hire car, speak to her insurers. They'll have an agreement with Enterprise or one of the others where they get a special rate, and you don't get raped for a £xxx excess like you would if you dinged a courtesy car.

 

You can claim back bus fares etc while you're without a car. Keep the receipts, or at least a rough record of the trips you did.

 

Insurance companies do not, generally, set out to rip people off. The horror stories you hear are, more often than not, because like in any other service industry the people you normally deal with are right at the bottom, and sometimes make mistakes.

[CortinaDave]

There's some fairly bad advice on this thread.

 

As you're claiming through someone else's insurance, they shouldn't be writing off the car, or taking it anywhere, without your say-so. As usual, the 'don't accept their first offer' bollocks has been trotted out; they don't pluck a figure out of the air, a qualified motor engineer inspects it, tells them is worth x, they offer x. It's not worth their time or effort trying to knock a few hundred quid off. .

 

I've had to deal with insurance claims on a fair few occasions over the last 15 years or so and have, on EVERY occasion been given a better offer on turning the first one down. From my experience I'm not "trotting out bollocks" as you so kindly put it. But thanks for that.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Insurance companies do not, generally, set out to rip people off. The horror stories you hear are, more often than not, because like in any other service industry the people you normally deal with are right at the bottom, and sometimes make mistakes.

 

Pure comedy gold.

 

It's because they don't 'set out to rip people off' that 'no admin fees for changes to the policy' means a huge premium increase whereas a quote for a brand new policy from the same insurer produces a lower premium. For the same reason, the credit hire rate for a Bentley is £860 as against a market rate of £485 ( http://www.zenithchambers.co.uk/cms/doc ... pments.pdf ). Thank goodness that the insurance companies don't set out to rip us off!

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Insurance companies do not, generally, set out to rip people off. The horror stories you hear are, more often than not, because like in any other service industry the people you normally deal with are right at the bottom, and sometimes make mistakes.

 

Pure comedy gold.

 

It's because they don't 'set out to rip people off' that 'no admin fees for changes to the policy' means a huge premium increase whereas a quote for a brand new policy from the same insurer produces a lower premium. For the same reason, the credit hire rate for a Bentley is £860 as against a market rate of £485 ( http://www.zenithchambers.co.uk/cms/doc ... pments.pdf ). Thank goodness that the insurance companies don't set out to rip us off!

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

The no edit-no quote thing has gone too far. I can't even delete the duplicate post now!

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Even the link was mangled!

 

http://www.zenithchambers.co.uk/cms/doc ... pments.pdf

 

Have a look at the second page. Royal and Sunalliance claimed £1825.53 for repairs (through the 'approved repairer', of course) that had cost them £1542.78, and subsequently "sought to avoid disclosure of the invoice from the repairing garage", just because they 'don't set out to rip people off'!

[panhard65]

I was talking to an insurance assessor the other day who came to inspect a 207 peugeot with flood damage. He said they have a list of market values and use that as a guide. If they think it might not be fair they will check through the small ad's etc, but that is only the assessor's valuation that he will submit to the insurance company. The assessor should be independent and unbiased but there is no certainty that the insurance company will actually offer you what he suggests. So best idea is arm yourself with some figures of similar cars for sale and that have sold. At least you will know the real value of your car. The fact that it has had over the market value spent on it with the lpg kit is irrelevant. He also told me about a peugeot 205 that had over 2k spent on it's engine alone. They only paid out £750 for it which seems fair

[Bobthebeard]

The fact that it has had over the market value spent on it with the lpg kit is irrelevant. He also told me about a peugeot 205 that had over 2k spent on it's engine alone. They only paid out £750 for it which seems fair

 

That's understandable, but perhaps the fact that it has a professionally installed and registered LPG kit would increase the market value in the event of a write off scenario? Probably not by much though, but worth pointing out to the insurance company if the worst happens? Having said that, should my car be written off I will be doing the salvage thing and keeping the car to repair myself, as it is perfectly driveable and legal, so guess it is irrelevant in my case. But in other cases when a car is written off and scrapped then surely an LPG conversion would be taken into account? Can appreciate that spending money on the engine etc would have no impact on the value though.

[Cheggers]

Also, had you not declared the LPG conversion, they'd almost certainly invalidate your insurance for an undeclared modification.

[Bobthebeard]

Also, had you not declared the LPG conversion, they'd almost certainly invalidate your insurance for an undeclared modification.

 

Now that WOULD have been scary! Thank fook it is all above board.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Insurance companies do not, generally, set out to rip people off. The horror stories you hear are, more often than not, because like in any other service industry the people you normally deal with are right at the bottom, and sometimes make mistakes.

 

Pure comedy gold.

 

It's because they don't 'set out to rip people off' that 'no admin fees for changes to the policy' means a huge premium increase whereas a quote for a brand new policy from the same insurer produces a lower premium. For the same reason, the credit hire rate for a Bentley is £860 as against a market rate of £485 ( http://www.zenithchambers.co.uk/cms/doc ... pments.pdf ). Thank goodness that the insurance companies don't set out to rip us off!

 

I don't think I've ever been ripped off by an insurance company in nearly 30 years of driving. In my prang in late 2010, the assessor valued my car at £700. If anyone thinks that's a bit mean for a 1995 318i with (at the time) 150'000 miles and was already a Cat C from 2004, please speak up. I was happy to accept the £700 from the other driver's insurance company and keep the car which, in the event, cost me about fifty quid to repair with a used wing the right colour, another headlight and a Halfords rattle can or two to paint a secondhand nosecone.

They gave me an Insignia and when the arsehole who caused the accident started to play the smartarse, they took it as far as the courtroom steps before they caved in. They then sent me back a nice cheque for £70, the excess waiver for the Insignia that I put 2500 enjoyable miles on.

Yes, my insurance went up at the next renewal from an already steep £370 to £410. I elected to insure the car on a piggyback policy from a classic policy I have and paid around £130.

So all in all, the whole thing was painless and I made enough from the episode to pay for another couple of years insurance. It's called 'playing the game'.

 

As for credit hire, I was of course perfectly within my rights to refuse that nice brand new Insignia to roll around in whilst my £350 shitbox BMW was being sorted out. I chose not to, and took advantage of what I'd been paying for all these years. I take the view that the whole thing is but a flea bite on a camels arse in comparison with what Aviva make in a year. It's all money batting to and fro between huge insurance companies.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Well, sure enough, there are loopholes and ways to 'play the game', and some people are luckier than others, but that doesn't mean that the game's played in good faith on a level playing field.

 

Think about the example to which I linked. What would happen if a policyholder were to overstate a claim by £300 by denying the court access to the repair invoice? Wouldn't they get convicted of fraud, get a big fine and/or some (possibly suspended) prison sentence, and have massive problems obtaining any sort of insurance for years on end? To some people, it seems completely unremarkable that when the insurers engage in that sort of dodgy practice, the court just orders them to pay the £300 back.

[Bobthebeard]

As a rule, the buy back salvage value is 20% of the value agreed by you and the insurance company. Sometimes they can be very generous: when my all but worthless 1996 3 Series got hit a while back they paid out £700 and let me keep the car - in fact, there was no mention of retaining the salvage because they simply didn't want it or the aggro/expense of collecting, storing and auctioning a car worth about 100 quid in a salvage auction. The bodyshop did an estimate and an assessor came to my place to look at it. In my case also, they didn't ask for the V5 and MOT - some companies do because they want to be arseholes and send them back to DVLA to enforce a Category C write off - this means that you have to re-MOT the car and take it to a VOSA test centre to have the car's I.D numbers checked to make sure you aren't ringing it.

 

With luck, they'll value your car at £2500 and give you a hassle free cheque for 2 grand.

 

The saga is finally over. After many phone calls and some argy bargy the other insurance company have agreed a figure of just over £2000.

They have declared the Honda as Cat D and are sending me a cheque for just under £1600 after deducting £460 as salvage.

Pretty good result I think. I get to keep the car and repair it myself. As it only has a damaged rear bumper and slight paint damage to the tailgate that sounds ok to me!

The insurance industry is its own worst enemy I suspect. I declined a hire car, even though one was almost thrust upon me. Plus a perfectly good car is considered total loss due to a bent bumper.... I appreciate why, of course. Dealer parts, good as new etc, but FFS, the insurance industry doesn't half waste their own (therefore our) money!

[Albert Ross]

So you can spend 3-400 quid, get it as good as you want it, and spend a grand on chod!

[Bobthebeard]

So you can spend 3-400 quid, get it as good as you want it, and spend a grand on chod!

 

Yep!

Chod ahoy!

[Bobthebeard]

So you can spend 3-400 quid, get it as good as you want it, and spend a grand on chod!

 

Now that the insurance cheque is banked, I have spent the morning investigating the damage with a view to getting it fixed.

(The Honda is now Cat D.)

I removed the tow bar mounted bike rack bracket that had been pushed into the rear bumper to investigate, and the big dent in the plastic bumper just popped out on its own once the bracket was gone.

The only visible damage now is two small (5 pence sized) marks in the bumper from the bracket! The slight damage to the tailgate bottom inside lip took two minutes to straighten out with a copper/hide mallet. No sign of the damage now from the outside, only some cracked paint on the inside lip.

Result!

The car looks barely any different than it did pre (very low speed) shunt. Yet it was deemed total loss, valued at £2000.

The insurance industry is a mad world!

[Micrashed]

Is there any damage underneath Bob?

[Bobthebeard]

Is there any damage underneath Bob?

 

No, no damage underneath at all. The shunt happened at about 2 mph. The tow bar took the impact. The "approved repairer"

checked underneath and said all the car needed was a replacement bumper and said bumper spraying in body colour. Oh, and a replacement bike rack.

[FredTransit]

If the paint is cracked, bung some superglue on it to seal it. Dries almost instantly, seals the paint and sticks like er superglue

[robinmasters]

Insurance companies do not, generally, set out to rip people off. The horror stories you hear are, more often than not, because like in any other service industry the people you normally deal with are right at the bottom, and sometimes make mistakes.

 

Pure comedy gold.

 

It's because they don't 'set out to rip people off' that 'no admin fees for changes to the policy' means a huge premium increase whereas a quote for a brand new policy from the same insurer produces a lower premium. For the same reason, the credit hire rate for a Bentley is £860 as against a market rate of £485 ( http://www.zenithchambers.co.uk/cms/doc ... pments.pdf ). Thank goodness that the insurance companies don't set out to rip us off!

 

The how car want provided by an insurance company, and an insurance company didn't do the repairs. What you've shown there are two examples of companies set up primarily to milk insurance companies for all they're worth.

 

Better offers for new companies? Yeah, it's just insurance companies that do that, isn't it?

 

I've worked in insurance for years, and despite what you might think you don't get a pat on the back for ripping people off, you get a bollocking for risking the company's good name.