Rover BRM

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Hmm. I wonder if they could also make an Audi interior to fit, to replace that hopeless piece of grot you got in the 200/25/ZR?

[Tayne]

.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Hmm. I wonder if they could also make an Audi interior to fit, to replace that hopeless piece of grot you got in the 200/25/ZR?

 

Why don't you ask if they'll fit one of those fall-to-bits VAG heating systems?

And a Audi galvanised bodyshell that rusts like an old Lancia?

 

Haha! Evidently you know more about VAG products than I do

[fiatdaft]

that wouldn't be too hard now would it?

[seth]

I have never driven or even been in a Rover BRM, therefore I reserve the right not to answer to this thread.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

Hmm. I wonder if they could also make an Audi interior to fit, to replace that hopeless piece of grot you got in the 200/25/ZR?

 

The 200/25/ZR's interior is alright actually, considering it was a last-minute bodge job completed on Volkswagen's development budget for its ashtrays. They wanted to fit the dashboard from the old 200/400 but found it cost as much to adapt a passenger airbag to it as it would to develop a whole new dashboard.

 

Anyway, with an Audi interior and Audi engine, why not just buy an Audi? At least the wee Rover isn't leaden and boring to drive.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Hmm. I wonder if they could also make an Audi interior to fit, to replace that hopeless piece of grot you got in the 200/25/ZR?

 

The 200/25/ZR's interior is alright actually, considering it was a last-minute bodge job completed on Volkswagen's development budget for its ashtrays. They wanted to fit the dashboard from the old 200/400 but found it cost as much to adapt a passenger airbag to it as it would to develop a whole new dashboard.

 

Anyway, with an Audi interior and Audi engine, why not just buy an Audi? At least the wee Rover isn't leaden and boring to drive.

 

Oh quite, I wouldn't have an Audi (hot RS and R models excepted) because they're leaden and boring to drive (plus the ride is awful on most of them), it's just I wondered if you could get a decent interior into the 25... and I wouldn't chose to put an Audi four-cylinder engine in, either. Too characterless.

[Gompo]

I contemplated getting a BRM for a while, went to have a look at a bloody rough one for sale in one of those 2nd car dealers owned by a youth who knows fuck all about cars which didnt help. It was up for about 2.5k but this was 3-4 years ago when even the cheapest were about £1800.. I like them, probably my favourite of the bubble variants. The machine turned bits on the dash etc looked a bit shit though. I went and bought a 306GTI instead. Quicker and supposedly better handling.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I'm sure a 1.8 litre engine that can generate 340bhp must have some sort of character

[Guest EccentricRichard]

I'm sure a 1.8 litre engine that can generate 340bhp must have some sort of character

 

Power =/= character. The Toyota Camry is pretty fast, with a 3.5 litre V6, but it's not exactly interesting. On the other hand, an old Fiat 500 with a putt-putt two-cylinder engine has character bursting out of it.

[Pete-M]

I'm sure a 1.8 litre engine that can generate 340bhp must have some sort of character

 

Power =/= character. The Toyota Camry is pretty fast, with a 3.5 litre V6, but it's not exactly interesting. On the other hand, an old Fiat 500 with a putt-putt two-cylinder engine has character bursting out of it.

 

That's fuck all to do with the engine though, chuck one in an MR2 and all of a sudden the MR2 becomes a bit of a snorty wailing handful. The reason a V6 Camry is boring is because a Camry is, by definition, competent but dull. (Although I believe the 2.2 Sport can be good fun). A Fiat 500 is built to be thrashed mercilessly by Italians, and is rather good at it, which is why it is fun. Honda Legend V6s are mind-numbingly tedious too.

 

The Mitsubishi 3000 GT is a boring car, a fast one, but is one of those cars that paint likes to watch dry.

 

Mk2 Escorts are great fun, unless 'powered' by a low compression 1100cc motor. Then they're dull as fuck.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I'm sure a 1.8 litre engine that can generate 340bhp must have some sort of character

 

Power =/= character. The Toyota Camry is pretty fast, with a 3.5 litre V6, but it's not exactly interesting. On the other hand, an old Fiat 500 with a putt-putt two-cylinder engine has character bursting out of it.

 

Thanks for clarifying this, i'm talking about the character of th engine not of the car though. Please describe to me the character of the VW 20v engine (when souped up to 340bhp) as I imagine you have more experience of such a weapon than myself.

[Guest]

Of course the Camry hasn't got character, that's what the journalist said! No character innit, because it is made by the Japanese and they're a dead boring lot. The current BMW 3-series on the other hand is absolutely packed full of character, especially all the diesel ones, they have so much character, they're like Ernest Borgnine on oversized wheels and the wheels are packed full of character too - one time I cracked open a BMW wheel and all the character leaked out and I was like "OH GOD, THE CHARACTER HAS GONE ALL OVER" and then I put a gun in my mouth and ended it all right there and the gun was a big gun and it was like a uzi but an uzi that could shoot shotguns and then my head blew up all over and I went up into heaven and all the characterful cars were there and they could talk and fly and God was there and Jesus was there and we all sung a little melody and then I had fish fingers and chips and also daddy was there but he didn't touch me anymore and he went "you have done good" then I blew up a nuclear bomb and the whole world was destroyed but I saved it and that's the end.

[fiatdaft]

now thats charachter ^ E.R.

 

you helmet.

[Station]

I think that's sarcasm isn't it?

[ashmicro]

I drove a mate's Camry 2.2 (late 80's vintage 88/89) years ago. Aside from having too-quick steering, which I simply wasn't used to, I thought it an ace car. Plenty of go, nice toys, all of which worked, comfy as fuck and voluminous.

 

Let's face it, the press, and the media in general, talk a load of shit about cars. They have to justify their own existence, and many couldn't drive their finger up their own nose. For example: my pal Alan has a HUGE stable (literally) of cars, worth probably 2 million quid, yet he will derive great pleasure in blasting a £500 Mini up the road, cos it makes him smile, and he's a born engineer.

 

Example 2: Is a VW Passat a better car than the current Hyundai Sonata? Technically, probably yes. Is it worth 4 grand more to Joe Public? Is it fuck, cos Joe public can't tell the difference, except the seats in the dog-eater car won't break his back. And the Hyundai has a better warranty, and a service costs 35p.

 

I found myself starting to buy into this double-vanos kinetic-design bullshit, and then I gave myself a fucking hard slap, having test driven a "cool as fuck" 320 iS (Special Edition). It was £22k used, and felt no better than my mother's 1.4 Getz. yes, I mean that. OK the Bimmer was faster of course, but it had no more merit points. Equally, I don't buy this "you're paying for the name". You're fucking not, ok? You're paying for over-engineered stuff that no-one cares about.

 

The European manufacturers are getting pushed to the wall really hard by the far east for numerous reasons:

 

1: European cars are too expensive

2: European cars are too bloody BIG

3: European cars can be A BIT SHIT (Ford - rust - in 2010)

 

The Big 3 US and VAG etc need to get their collective act together. They are making cars that are no doubt excellent, but no-one wants them cos the merits of all that "innovative, progressive" are lost on the buying public. Even Joe Informed Public, who understands what it's all about, couldn't give a flying one.

 

I've been chucking hand built Van Diemen and Crossle racing cars round a track for the guts of 20 years now, I'm only 37 so I'm no old fart. Yet my old Jaguar S Type in tip-top condition, does me just fine. I can waft, I can BLAST just like I suspect Pete-M does in his SC monster (jealous!). Equally, my Rover 25, in the right hands (not mine, a former Formula Ford 2000 European Champion of this parish) can cover ground at an astonishing rate. And he says it's a "good, mechanical, grippy" car.

 

Just cos a singer is on the X Factor, would you necessarily rave (sic) about them? Same with cars.

 

Go easy on Eccentric, folks, he makes some decent points, and we're all supposed to be friends here, right?

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Of course the Camry hasn't got character, that's what the journalist said! No character innit, because it is made by the Japanese and they're a dead boring lot. The current BMW 3-series on the other hand is absolutely packed full of character, especially all the diesel ones, they have so much character, they're like Ernest Borgnine on oversized wheels and the wheels are packed full of character too - one time I cracked open a BMW wheel and all the character leaked out and I was like "OH GOD, THE CHARACTER HAS GONE ALL OVER" and then I put a gun in my mouth and ended it all right there and the gun was a big gun and it was like a uzi but an uzi that could shoot shotguns and then my head blew up all over and I went up into heaven and all the characterful cars were there and they could talk and fly and God was there and Jesus was there and we all sung a little melody and then I had fish fingers and chips and also daddy was there but he didn't touch me anymore and he went "you have done good" then I blew up a nuclear bomb and the whole world was destroyed but I saved it and that's the end.

 

Err, no. I'd rather spend a few hundred quid on some old shite with a nice engine than over twenty grand on a boggo poverty-spec 3-series diesel... of course those haven't got much character! As for the rest, you're just talking crap.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

I drove a mate's Camry 2.2 (late 80's vintage 88/89) years ago. Aside from having too-quick steering, which I simply wasn't used to, I thought it an ace car. Plenty of go, nice toys, all of which worked, comfy as fuck and voluminous.

 

Let's face it, the press, and the media in general, talk a load of shit about cars. They have to justify their own existence, and many couldn't drive their finger up their own nose. For example: my pal Alan has a HUGE stable (literally) of cars, worth probably 2 million quid, yet he will derive great pleasure in blasting a £500 Mini up the road, cos it makes him smile, and he's a born engineer.

 

Example 2: Is a VW Passat a better car than the current Hyundai Sonata? Technically, probably yes. Is it worth 4 grand more to Joe Public? Is it fuck, cos Joe public can't tell the difference, except the seats in the dog-eater car won't break his back. And the Hyundai has a better warranty, and a service costs 35p.

 

I found myself starting to buy into this double-vanos kinetic-design bullshit, and then I gave myself a fucking hard slap, having test driven a "cool as fuck" 320 iS (Special Edition). It was £22k used, and felt no better than my mother's 1.4 Getz. yes, I mean that. OK the Bimmer was faster of course, but it had no more merit points. Equally, I don't buy this "you're paying for the name". You're fucking not, ok? You're paying for over-engineered stuff that no-one cares about.

 

The European manufacturers are getting pushed to the wall really hard by the far east for numerous reasons:

 

1: European cars are too expensive

2: European cars are too bloody BIG

3: European cars can be A BIT SHIT (Ford - rust - in 2010)

 

The Big 3 US and VAG etc need to get their collective act together. They are making cars that are no doubt excellent, but no-one wants them cos the merits of all that "innovative, progressive" are lost on the buying public. Even Joe Informed Public, who understands what it's all about, couldn't give a flying one.

 

I've been chucking hand built Van Diemen and Crossle racing cars round a track for the guts of 20 years now, I'm only 37 so I'm no old fart. Yet my old Jaguar S Type in tip-top condition, does me just fine. I can waft, I can BLAST just like I suspect Pete-M does in his SC monster (jealous!). Equally, my Rover 25, in the right hands (not mine, a former Formula Ford 2000 European Champion of this parish) can cover ground at an astonishing rate. And he says it's a "good, mechanical, grippy" car.

 

Just cos a singer is on the X Factor, would you necessarily rave (sic) about them? Same with cars.

 

Go easy on Eccentric, folks, he makes some decent points, and we're all supposed to be friends here, right?

 

Can't disagree with a word you've said. The Camry is actually a surprisingly decent car, just a bit short on character, but far short of the beige nothingness that the journos paint it to be. I've been in the odd one as a passenger, and was pretty astonished at how quick and nimble it was... and I don't buy this badge crap. I like some BMWs because of the engines and handling (though the modern 3-series does very little for me - most have a terrible ride on run-flat tyres and too-big wheels, I'm told there's fuck all steering feel, you get either pov spec or that bloody iDrive thing, and THEY'RE ALL FUCKING SILVER!). Audi, on the other hand, can go fuck themselves, because there's nothing an A4 does that a Superb doesn't do equally well or better for rather less money... plus Audi drivers are mostly a bunch of knobheads...

 

As for the X-factor, I don't know why people keep mentioning it to me. I loathe it and Simon Cowell, hate them with a passion, hate everything they stand for. Modern pop is so samey and deliberately commercialised, most of it just makes me want to go out and kill people (no, don't worry, I won't!)...

[pogweasel]

you're just talking crap.

 

Pot? Kettle? Black?? Fucktard.

[Louise2cv]

The thing is E-R, can you really pass judgement on how nice a car is to drive by being a passenger?

 

For an extreme example I have driven and been driven in many 2cvs.

 

As a passenger a corner may well have you screaming, praying and staining your pants. As a driver that same corner will have you thinking "next time I'm going to do it faster". Totally differing experiences.

 

You might feel the lumps and bumps through your bum as a passenger but you have no idea how the steering/suspension set up copes with it unless you are holding the wheel.

 

I think its that distinction thats winding people up. Why not start a thread with pics of the tat in your area (something I'm yet to do I'll confess).

[Guest EccentricRichard]

you're just talking crap.

 

Pot? Kettle? Black?? Fucktard.

 

"Of course the Camry hasn't got character, that's what the journalist said! No character innit, because it is made by the Japanese and they're a dead boring lot. The current BMW 3-series on the other hand is absolutely packed full of character, especially all the diesel ones, they have so much character, they're like Ernest Borgnine on oversized wheels and the wheels are packed full of character too - one time I cracked open a BMW wheel and all the character leaked out and I was like "OH GOD, THE CHARACTER HAS GONE ALL OVER" and then I put a gun in my mouth and ended it all right there and the gun was a big gun and it was like a uzi but an uzi that could shoot shotguns and then my head blew up all over and I went up into heaven and all the characterful cars were there and they could talk and fly and God was there and Jesus was there and we all sung a little melody and then I had fish fingers and chips and also daddy was there but he didn't touch me anymore and he went "you have done good" then I blew up a nuclear bomb and the whole world was destroyed but I saved it and that's the end."

 

I'm sorry, but that's just a load of bollocks.

 

Apart from anything, I would never accuse the Japs of being boring. I love so many old Japanese cars... not just the obvious Honda Type Rs, S2000s, NSXs, Toyota Celicas, Supras, MR2s, Mazda MXs and RXs... but old 60s and 70s things too. Also, I think you'll find that the most interesting and exciting driver in F1 at the moment is the incredibly brave Kamui "Kamikaze" Kobayashi, who, as you can probably work out, is Japanese...

[seth]

Considering that Hirst has elsewhere in the last 24 hours talked about murdering people I am glad that his posts now have the official "bollocks" rating. I can sleep more easily at night.

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Considering that Hirst has elsewhere in the last 24 hours talked about murdering people I am glad that his posts now have the official "bollocks" rating. I can sleep more easily at night.

 

Hirst? Who's Hirst?

[Guest EccentricRichard]

The thing is E-R, can you really pass judgement on how nice a car is to drive by being a passenger?

 

For an extreme example I have driven and been driven in many 2cvs.

 

As a passenger a corner may well have you screaming, praying and staining your pants. As a driver that same corner will have you thinking "next time I'm going to do it faster". Totally differing experiences.

 

You might feel the lumps and bumps through your bum as a passenger but you have no idea how the steering/suspension set up copes with it unless you are holding the wheel.

 

I think its that distinction thats winding people up. Why not start a thread with pics of the tat in your area (something I'm yet to do I'll confess).

 

Can't say I can argue with that... my one ride in a 2CV was terrifying (whenever we went round a corner, the doors on the side outside of the corner sprang open uncommanded, the body roll was just appalling, the ride very bouncy) and the driver had a grin plastered all over his face! Personally, I really don't like the 2CV, but I'm not going to go pissing on other people's parties because of that.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

[Louise2cv]

Well when you do start driving, have a go in one, trust me it WILL be an experience! I don't know if it will change your mind about them, but you might find its fun

[Guest EccentricRichard]

Well when you do start driving, have a go in one, trust me it WILL be an experience! I don't know if it will change your mind about them, but you might find its fun

 

Oh, possibly so. With 0-60 taking, what was it, 45 seconds?, it's about as slow as a car gets, which doesn't really suit the busy roads around here, but I dare say it's one of those cars that's so terrible it actually becomes great...

[Station]

Here's a pic just to change the subject!

 

[pogweasel]

A 2cv is also a very cheap car to insure etc.... so if you pulled your head out of your own arsehole, you may realise that somethong of that ilk represents your best chance of gaining some actual driving skills and experience (and respect from those who have been there before)....

[Louise2cv]

Well when you do start driving, have a go in one, trust me it WILL be an experience! I don't know if it will change your mind about them, but you might find its fun

 

Oh, possibly so. With 0-60 taking, what was it, 45 seconds?, it's about as slow as a car gets, which doesn't really suit the busy roads around here, but I dare say it's one of those cars that's so terrible it actually becomes great...

 

No. my dad going somewhere in his Berlingo is "about as slow as a car gets". Trust me.

 

Anyway. You'd be suprised. The 2cv suits all types of road. If its busy you probably won't get the chance to do 60/70, most places are seeing more and more 50 limits and what you can't do on the straight bits you'll make up for on the corners. Undertaking Beemers on roundabouts (door handles scraping the floor) or losing the clio sport thats been on your arse in the next road with speedbumps more than make up for any of the "downsides" of 2cv ownership.

 

If you really think the top-speed/acceleration of a car is the limiting factor of journey times or even usability, then you really are in for a big shock. And points on your licence