French Diesel oiu/non?

[michael1703]

I read a study where if 75% of car owners in britain bought electric cars, we would need 4 more power stations to meet the charging demand

 

The power consumption is higher than what most people think, if the car is 30-50kw the charging draw is going to be similar to the power of electric heating elements rather than the notion of it takes as much as running a fridge

 

Charging points in town were free but are £6.50-£7.50 per charge to get you 65-120 miles, if fuel keeps dropping it will cost more to cover the same distance in an economical petrol/diesel

 

So were shutting down power stations, there's more and more tech items in households causing higher electrical demand, it take twenty years to build a power station, there isn't enough power from wind and solar, if gas prices keep going up and the Russians fall out with us and won't sell any and we start using electric as heating then there's a higher demand on the grid, how are we going to be able to charge them all?

[Dave_Q]

Hummm, just a thought. Is it possible that some kind of condenser could be used to trap all the nox? Positioned in the boot of the car, it would use the aircon for refrigerant, plus a chemical that reacts with the nox to produce a bi - product that can be periodically removed.

 

NOx is made of nitrogen and oxygen, and if broken down into N2 and O2 makes erm, air. No storage required.

This is the point of SCR (selective catalytic reduction) systems using AdBlue etc.

[willswitchengage]

Hummm, just a thought. Is it possible that some kind of condenser could be used to trap all the nox? Positioned in the boot of the car, it would use the aircon for refrigerant, plus a chemical that reacts with the nox to produce a bi - product that can be periodically removed.

 

SCR injects urea into the exhaust to reduce NOx to water and Nitrogen gas.

 

 

 

Charging points in town were free but are £6.50-£7.50 per charge to get you 65-120 miles, if fuel keeps dropping it will cost more to cover the same distance in an economical petrol/diesel 

 

So were shutting down power stations, there's more and more tech items in households causing higher electrical demand, it take twenty years to build a power station, there isn't enough power from wind and solar, if gas prices keep going up and the Russians fall out with us and won't sell any and we start using electric as heating then there's a higher demand on the grid, how are we going to be able to charge them all? 

 

 

The Nissan Leaf has a 24KWh battery. A conservative estimate for electricity prices is 12p/KWh. A full charge would cost you about £2.50.

 

To do the same distance in an 'economical petrol/diesel' would cost at ~10p a mile (ambitious estimate) £6.50 - £12 based on your range assumption.

 

A modern CCGT power station such as Baglan in Port Talbot takes less than three years to build and commission, runs on natural gas (which does not produce NOx or soot due to the small molecule size and low burn temperatures in a non-reciprocating engine) and can be switched on and off easily. This type is 60% efficient, a modern diesel engine wil be ~40% efficient.

 

Gas prices have remained stable for the past five years due to a slump in world demand and new sources coming online in the USA:

 

http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/natural-gas.aspx?timeframe=5y

 

~50% of the UK's natural gas is imported, 75% of this is from other North Sea producers such as the Netherlands and Norway. The remainder is imported in LNG form from further afield - particularly Australia and Qatar.

[dieselnutjob]

NOx creates photochemical smog, 'poisonous air' in simple terms. It's not especially bad in London but in sunny, densely populated areas such as northern Italy and Los Angeles it gets trapped in low areas and is a major health hazard.

 

The NOx doesn't produce the smog on it's own does it?  I thought that you also needed a certain concentration of Hydrocarbons or something to be around to get the smog.  Diesels emit virtually no Hydrocarbons at all, so the problem might actually be an unfortunate mix of petrol and diesel emissions.

 

What would happen if you had a diesel only city with no hydrocarbons?  Would you get smog?

[oman5]

An excellent thread, we have some truly knowledgeable people here. In my limited experience, HGVs with SCR tend to be much better pullers and more economical than those still using EGR.

EGR Scanias are SHIT

[willswitchengage]

The NOx doesn't produce the smog on it's own does it?  I thought that you also needed a certain concentration of Hydrocarbons or something to be around to get the smog.  Diesels emit virtually no Hydrocarbons at all, so the problem might actually be an unfortunate mix of petrol and diesel emissions.

 

What would happen if you had a diesel only city with no hydrocarbons?  Would you get smog?

 

I don't know the exact chemistry but I believe you are right, yes.