Advice needed,Selling a car to ze Germanz

[michael1703]

I've got a merc 190e Cosworth,lhd wearing Dortmund number plates that I want to sell and sending it back to the fatherland would be the best way of doing it.

 

As said,car has German reg,old German logbook,lhd,lights dip their way,only 80thousand kilometres from new etc

 

Should be some demand for it,but the unknowns:

 

Was it properly removed from country? How would I check?

 

Can it go back across easily?

 

How do I know it wasn't nicked from there or owe a million in fines or duty?

 

Where would be the best place to advertise it ?

 

Why did nena have a hamster in her armpits?

[Rocket88]

Before you do, could I have some details, price, etc, I've always fancied one of these..............pm sent

[John F]

If the plates don't have the Dortmund regional sticker scratched off it is probably still registered to somebody in Germany. If the stickers have been scratched off then it probably has been de-registered properly and re-registration is a simple process.

 

If you have the Fahrzeugbrief / Fahrzeugschein the car probably won't be nicked.

 

German eBay is as good a place as any to advertise it.

 

Nena was keeping the hamster warm for Richard Gere.

[Junkman]

Unfortunately, there has been a Nigerian scam going on for years in Germany. It goes like this:

 

LHD 'desirable' German spec Car is in England on German plates, courtesy of a returning Serviceman, but registration in UK is 'too expensive', it needs to go back to .de hence it is offered at a ridiculously low price.

The scam then goes that a down-payment is asked for to secure the car, since there is 'so much interest'. When the hapless victim then travels to England to finalise the deal, seller and car have vanished, of course, and the down-payment with them.

 

This scam is so well known in Germany, that no German will respond to an ad for a car on German plates for sale in England, however honest the offering may be.

 

I know, this is not helping to get your hopes up, but it is the situation you face.

 

My advise: there are exporters in England specialised in LHD cars. Sell it to one of them.

[trigger]

I'd be interested in seeing some photos of it Mike if you any.

[Junkman]

Furthermore, due to the EU-harmonisation, Germany abandoned the Kfz. Brief and Fahrzeugschein in 2005 and replaced it with a EU-Zulassungsbescheinigung similar to the V5C.

The Federal 'Stamps' (stickers) on the plates are only one side of the coin. In Germany, a car is only registered, if it is also insured, taxed and has a valid TÃœV. It must meet all this for the duration the stickers are on the plates. If one of the preliminaries (tax, insurance, or TÃœV) becomes invalid, the car is no longer registered and it either must be rectified, or the plates must be presented at the registration office to de-register the car (i.e. remove the stickers in the presence of a registration officer, who then issues a de-registration certificate). Failing to do so automatically creates a warrant for the car and the Germans do have ANPR for decades.

 

So

 

- If the car has a Fahrzeugbrief/Fahrzeugschein instead of a Zulassungsbescheinigung (which has 2 parts), it is not registered.

 

- If the car is not insured, taxed and/or has no valid TÜV (you can see this at the coloured sticker on the rear plate, which tells you the month and year the TÜV expires), it is not registered, and - if the federal stickers are still intact - there is a warrant out for it in Germany. The latter you can get revoked fairly easily - you report to the next German police station (there is one at almost every point of entry, or it's signposted from there) and make a statement in lieu of oath (Eidesstattliche Erklärung). Nobody can touch you on your way to the police station. According to German law, you are immune as long as you are on the way to a police station.

 

But:

 

If you use the car on German roads without rectifying the paperwork beforehand, you commit several punishable offenses:

 

- Driving without a properly registered vehicle - a regulatory misdemeanour

- Driving without a valid TÃœV - a regulatory misdemeanour

- Driving without a valid insurance - a criminal offense

- Evasion of taxes - a criminal offense

 

In each of the above cases, the car will be impounded on the spot and only released after the offense has been rectified, the punishment is satisfied, and the fees and fines have been paid.

 

Hence, the only legal ways to get the car back to Germany are:

 

- Driving it on UK plates

- Transport it

[John F]

Furthermore, due to the EU-harmonisation, Germany abandoned the Kfz. Brief and Fahrzeugschein in 2005 and replaced it with a EU-Zulassungsbescheinigung similar to the V5C.

 

Not quite. There's little de facto difference between the new EU-Zulassungsbescheinigung and the old Kfz.-Brief/-Schein... in fact, the new document is in two parts, wherein the Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1 is the direct equivalent of the old Fahrzeugbrief, and the new Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 2 is the equivalent of the old Fahrzeugschein.

 

Also, there's no obligation to exchange existing vehicle documents for the new type - this is generally only done when documents are submitted for alteration or change of ownership. So your existing documents will still be valid.

[stormee]

Furthermore, due to the EU-harmonisation, Germany abandoned the Kfz. Brief and Fahrzeugschein in 2005 and replaced it with a EU-Zulassungsbescheinigung similar to the V5C.

 

Not quite. There's little de facto difference between the new EU-Zulassungsbescheinigung and the old Kfz.-Brief/-Schein... in fact, the new document is in two parts, wherein the Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1 is the direct equivalent of the old Fahrzeugbrief, and the new Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 2 is the equivalent of the old Fahrzeugschein.

 

It's the other way round. You have to have the Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1 (Kfz-Schein) with you while driving the vehicle, Teil 2 (Brief) is the document of ownership (to be left at home), if any of these documents get lost, they can be reissued. Just check the last ownership to be sure the car has not been reported as stolen or the registration has been reported to been abused, used in a crime etc. If all of the documents are missing refer to the vehicle's VIN. You can turn to German police or to the Kraftfahrtbundesamt (DVLA in UK) or to any other Stadtamt http://www.dortmund.de/de/rathaus_und_b ... index.html

Maybe you can post the reg. here? What does it say? DO XX999

[michael1703]

These are the pictures from when I bought it,havent done anything to the car yet, drove it home from London to a prebooked MOT and only failed on rusty brake pipes but I couldn't get it back within the alloted time so its sat for a month,MOT advisories on brake flexi's and a few other bits,so will get it back for a new test with the advisories fixed and a straight pass on the vin plate so it can either stay here or give a German buyer some comfort that it would pass a TUV,I'd drive it to a ferry or take it over if they paid my expenses. Also has RHD lights and MPH clocks in the boot with body coloured arch spats and rear window spoiler doodah

 

Its pretty quick, 5 speed Getrag and you can get the tail out on roundabouts easily, has a year old battery and new tyres

 

Downsides: storage dents,shit wheels,cloth Recaros (leather was an option),some mong has jigsawed the parcel shelf to fit OMG!HOOD RAT SPEAKERS, but I have an original parcel shelf which should clean up to cover it

 

They sell for 2500-5000 euros easily in this cond with higher mileage so would rather repatriate it,Anyway,here are some pics

 

[Junkman]

Those are expired temporary export plates, so that changes the whole situation completely. Repatriating is not a problem whatsoever.

However, you live under an illusion if you believe a British MOT would give any indication that a car will pass a German TÃœV test.

[trigger]

Those are expired temporary export plates, so that changes the whole situation completely

 

What does that mean then? They did one of these up one Wheel Dealers and I really fancied it, can't afford it though!.

 

What year and engine is this one? 2.3 or 2.5?.

[michael1703]

Its a 2.3, the guy who put the vin into his pooter at Euroshiteparts said it came up as being a Jap spec for the american market, there was a vin lookup thing on the mercedescosworth forum that said the same so god knows where its been

[michael1703]

Those are expired temporary export plates, so that changes the whole situation completely. Repatriating is not a problem whatsoever.

However, you live under an illusion if you believe a British MOT would give any indication that a car will pass a German TÃœV test.

 

Better than no MOT,means I can drive the fucker anyway. pictures of the never welded underside,shiny brake pipes,new flexi hoses,thick brake discs and pads will be reassuring though

[trigger]

Just been watching this video on the 190E 2.3 against the BMW M3 E30, seems the Merc was the better car, quite a good video actually.

 

[John F]

Yep, they're temporary plates (the yellow section would be red on export plates) and last for a maximum of 5 days. Those expired on 8th May 2007, and the car shouldn't really have been exported on them.

 

Re. TÃœV strictness, I've just got my gf's car through its TÃœV re-test (with DEKRA) and some of the existing repair patches that they'd not faulted were the snottiest I've ever seen

[Junkman]

Re. TÃœV strictness, I've just got my gf's car through its TÃœV re-test (with DEKRA) and some of the existing repair patches that they'd not faulted were the snottiest I've ever seen

 

That's not an issue. They fail you because your rear spoiler doesn't have the correct KBA or whatever number and your windscreen doesn't have the arrow/stroke sign or bollox like this.

 

Don't forget that the car has been not registered for more than 185 days, so it has to pass a Gutachten, not a regular TÃœV inspection.

[RichardMoss]

It already has RHD headlights and a UK speedo so why not do the easy thing and put it on UK plates? There must be a ready market for a car like this in the UK. If it is 25 years old (or older) it could also be sold legally to the USA and there is a solid market over there for European spec cars (which are much nicer/better than 25 year old Yank stuff).

[John F]

Re. TÃœV strictness, I've just got my gf's car through its TÃœV re-test (with DEKRA) and some of the existing repair patches that they'd not faulted were the snottiest I've ever seen

 

That's not an issue. They fail you because your rear spoiler doesn't have the correct KBA or whatever number and your windscreen doesn't have the arrow/stroke sign or bollox like this.

 

Don't forget that the car has been not registered for more than 185 days, so it has to pass a Gutachten, not a regular TÃœV inspection.

 

Hmmm, OK. Things might have changed since I resurrected a DR500 motorbike over there that had been standing for years, and got it through the TÃœV with no problem despite it having a quite heavy oil leak from a rubber bung I'd forgotten to replace (just got an advisory for that!) and a non-standard Acerbis fuel tank with no TÃœV-Plakette.

 

But the only 185-day rule I know about relates to foreign (non-EU) driving licences. I'm not saying you're wrong, but could you point me to a reference on the Net about a more stringent TÃœV test ('Gutachten' = 'assessment', 'certification') for vehicles that have been off the road for more than 185 days? In German or English, I don't mind.