Yugoslavian Ami.., continuing on from 'now-autoshites-flimsy-bodied Shitroen'

[Bfg]

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Hi y'all.  Yesterday was dull and wet, and along with it my spirit was well dampened !  HOWEVER today was frosty with bright sunshine - which I can cope with.  

 

Aside from house tidying jobs, I really needed a bit more garage space around the Ami to work on her.  So I decided the old bike had to come out of the garage ..But where to put it ?  Only sensible place was for it to go in the hallway (vestibule to any posh folk) but that had a big comfy chair in it..  The chair had to go then..  was just about to load it into the back of the Chrysler to do a dump run (as no-one else would want it with a torn arm rest).. when my neighbour returned home from work early (he's a farmer). So, I asked him if he knew anyone setting up home on a tight budget who might want it (freeby).  Long n' short of the matter is that the chair has gone to an old boy farm hand and the 'Beam is now warm n' dry in the house.  With room in the garage to pull the car across - I can now at least get to the tool chest on that side, and the light switch, and the battery charger.  Progress !

 

Then I decided to pull the front bumper.. On this car they are made up of three stainless pieces across plus the over-riders.  Well I don't like the look of the over-riders, and in fact much prefer the naked front..  It is imo good looking in a cheeky sort of way

 

 

While doing this I realised that the car had been 'loosely assembled' by Janez, insomuch as the bumper had fastening bolts missing and was loose, as were the wings.!   I know I said to him that they'd all have to come off again sometime soon for paint..,  but I hadn't realised that had I driven back across Europe they would probably have fallen off.!

 

Anyhow, the front wing being loose revealed the cause of a problem I'd had with the driver's door scratching against the door shut of the front wing.  In short ; that side of the car has been welded up a little too far forward !   ..so with the door correct to the aperture - the front wing likewise needs to go further forward ..so as to not have it's shut return scraped. This in turn means the bonnet aperture is not square.    ..perhaps the following LHS versus RHS pictures explain it better.?   Note the front wing corner position relative to the A-post window frame... 

 

 

  - v -

 

 

ho hum !

 

I hope to compromise things so that it'll barely be noticeable, but still.. 

 

..who knows, perhaps they were all made like that ?

 

Anyhows

 

Happy New Year to all.

 

Pete

11,088 views

[Bfg]

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Got the AmiS back to the UK on 23rd Dec and now need to get her registered asap, because the insurance co. say that they only insure for 30 days on the VIN number. They want a registration number.

Confusion over the NOVA (Notification Of Vehicle Arrivals) happened because I registered (23rd Dec) with the gov.uk 'gateway' (to fill in the forms on-line) but they never sent me a verification. I phoned their office (28th) and had them send me a pack. That arrived yesterday (10th Jan). In the meantime I got the on-line NOVA to work, but haven't yet received notification from them. I've also requested a new vehicle registration pack from the DVLA.., which I am awaiting.

I've asked the 2cvGB registrar for a dating certificate. Not for me for the car.    The reg. document I have shows the car as produced in 1974, but seemingly not first registered until the 27-July-76. However I don't know the actual 'date of manufacture' and I suspect the DVLA will not just want to accept the year.

As some might have spotted (during the holidays) I pulled out the car's steering pinion, did a sketch of that, and posted it on several Citroen enthusiast websites. I also sent the sketch to various specialists repairers and suppliers - in the hope of identifying whether this pinion was unique to the Ami-super or was used on another model, and then if anyone had one ?   It appears to be unique (at least as far as Citroen cars are concerned). And a few people have complete racks which they are offering to sell, at a variety of prices, but no-one wants to take the pinion out.. ie. they'd like me to chance buying something that may be equally as knackered as my own.

I have no choice but to go that route, or else pull the rack out of my car and rebuild it with the guts of the twin cylinder Ami-8 (and subsequently live with heavier steering).

In the meantime, I've drained the fuel tank down because it's drain tap is leaking. and I've removed the fuel filler & vent pipes which need replacing. The old filler pipe cracked and the straight rubber fuel hose (I had access to at that time) kinked around the corners. I'm sure the MOT man will frown upon those kinks, so I've ordered a new one from ECAS whose price was £42+ compared to 39euros (£34) from Der Franzose, but the cost of postage from each meant ECAS was £3 cheaper overall. Hopefully I'll have the new pipe before the week's end.

I've also made & fitted a couple of body clamp brackets, which were missing to the rear chassis outriggers. And while doing so I've locally hand painted those areas under where the brackets fit, up the rear valance and around the boot shut. In time, I'll probably hand paint the whole of the underside of the car as I believe this thicker (than spray) brushed-in-to-every-pore coat is an important barrier to long term weather protection.

 

The car has me in a dilemma insomuch as just I wanted a cheap scruffy car (but mechanically and structurally in first class order). Unfortunately as things have worked out the car now is so expensive that I'll have to sell it ..to put something back into my depleted coffers.  So., to realise the value I've already poured into it - I need the car to look pretty too.  That of course is going to cost me dearly which just leaves me more and more out of pocket. In short I'm on a hiding to nothing here.

Aside from that, I've replaced the fuel feed pipe to the carb. which was good enough to get the car running in Slovenia, but not reliably in good order.

That's about it for today, and now I need to get on with lowering the fuel tank (which the body tub cross beam is hard against) and then move on to other minor jobs in preparation for an MOT.

It seems that I cannot register the car in this country without an MOT (SORN is not acceptable) ..and as the insurance company will cancel the insurance if it is not registered - I'm against a deadline.  This in turn will mean that some of the jobs (like taking the wings off to paint under them) will have to wait until the car is on the road.

I will also have to borrow a set of wheels and tyres for the MOT (..so as to delay the rather large bill for a new set of tyres all around until the springtime).

hey hum !

11,272 views

 

p.s. a little progress today..

.  .  .  .  .  replaced the sealing washer to the fuel tank drain. Dropped the tank and swapped out its breather pipe (which I codged to get the car drivable for shipping). Brush painted the underside of the boot's floor while i had access, wiping paint in every crevice I could see or feel. Refitted the tank on rubber pads to clear the body's cross member. And turned up the boot aperture's return flange - to make it deeper (because as was, almost horizontal, it allowed water to leak into the boot), and then I repainted around the shut. 

 

Little by little   

 

^ Being a light colour definitely helps me see everything, whereas beforehand (when in traditional dull black underseal) the shadows of voids & panel overlaps / water traps were nigh on invisible.  As it is., she's clearly in need of a little more 'urethane sealant.

[Bfg]

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Q : who the firk would use 9mm x 1.25 pitch captive nuts in the sills for seat belt mountings ?

 

A : a certain Slovene maker of  replacement A-series panels and restorer.!

 

It took me three hours trying every bolt size I had ; Metric (coarse and fine), Whitworth, Imperial, American, and some bolts which I have no idea what they are.  Needless to say the universal seat-belt bolt size of  7/16 UNF,  also used on this car (and still in the upper B-posts and for the centre seat belt attachment points) - wasn't good enough.  M10 fine-pitch would have been close and readily available - but also wasn't good enough.   Hey.., why not use a smaller and almost obscure size.!? ..so then custom sizing sleeves will also have to be made ?  This sort of detail in new 2cvKeza panels is totally Bollocks. 

i.m.h.o.

 

...And a captive nut inside a sill is not exactly convenient to take to a trade counter and ask "something to fit that please".!  Seeing that it wasn't 10mm nor 8mm - I had nothing inbetween (despite having collected and categorized bolts over four decades).  I called a friend in the trade, and the only thing he could possibly suggest was to drill and tap it for an M10..  And then in further conversation - he suddenly thought of a possibility. . . 

 

While on the phone I removed a bolt from the car's suspension triangular end plates to try ..and found it to fit (but too short).  This thread size in two different lengths is (only ?) used to hold on the suspension end plates, and again the drive shafts (longer bolts).  I don't think the size complies with Construction & Use Regulations, but hey ho.. it's easier than drilling and re-tapping the thread so low to the car's floor.

 

Thankfully I had someone to call who knew these cars inside out.  Thanks Alexander.  But we are confounded as to why anyone should have chosen this size. Perhaps someone on here might have a suggestions ! ?     Four hours to find out what the bolt size was (yes I did try texting Janez, but I've not had a reply).  What a mega frustrating waste of half a day ..and even now I need to order them.  I'm not sure if  my local 'Suffolk Fasteners' will have this odd size, but otherwise I might order some from ECAS tomorrow.

 

 

Aside from that.,  this morning I received the new fuel filler pipe from ECAS (..Excellent service !) so fitted that.  And I also replaced the front (LHD) driver's seat with a RHD Ami's passenger seat, recently bought from Gary Dicks, which unlike my own - has a reclining backrest (Thanks Gary - it's great ).  While at it ; I re-drilled and moved the mid-seat runners to be in line with the outer ones ! ...so can now move the seats back a further 75mm.  Together with being reclining, it will be so much more comfortable for my overly tall frame - Result !

 

^ wot.. not square ?

 

^ The new seat's back rest was ripped open along one side, so a 'continental' (square) pillow case (in blue) serves perfectly as a temporary back-rest cover.

 

little by little

[2CVKeza]

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Q : who the firk would use 9mm x 1.25 pitch captive nuts in the sills for seat belt mountings ?

 

Peter... Citroen use this nuts M9 at AMI sills... and me.

 

There is a bracket that is bolted on sill with M9 bolts. And Seat belt is bolted thru bracket on floor... (not on sill as other A series). I don't know if you have original bracket for seat belt. As this floors was originally for my AMI I didn't drill hole for seat belt.

 

So, bolt bracket on sill with M9 nuts and drill 12 mm hole thru hole on bracket thru floor. And you can bolt seat belt like it was original. But you have to have standard seat belts as it was original, not automatic. If you have automatic, than do DIY solution. But in any case, seat belts are mounted on floor on AMI.

 

Sorry I didn't receive any call or text from you.

 

 

 

 

[Bfg]

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Okey Dokey and Thanks.  

 

As it happens, there are no 9mm bolts with the car (four being needed), nor in the bag of seat belts.  The seat belts are automatic recoil types. And the brackets have slotted 11mm dia holes that you say are to be bolted with 9mm bolts into the sill, with a third 12mm bolt through the floor skin..  I presume I'll need to make backing plates as there's non in these floors.  

 

And the bracket will need to be packed away from the sill, otherwise there's no room for a bolt head of the seat belt anchorage.  But anyway the bracket will need to be modified when used with the recoil seat belts that were fitted. Well, that all sounds very precise. 

 

 

I do appreciate your reply Janez Sterling service.   ..at least I now know what needs to be done.  Firstly I'll shop for those obscure 9mm bolts.

 

Pete.

 

p.s. might I propose you change the spec. to use M10-fine-pitch bolts in future - as they are universally available.  Just a suggestion.!

[2CVKeza]

Thanks for proposing M10 solution.. But I will stick with an idea to produce parts as much as possible to an original design and spec.

 

Anyway... this is a joy of buying partial dismantled stored in boxes car... you are not the only one...

 

... example from my new workshop ... 3 cars, looks good but..  ad-least 30% missing bolts and parts and some 40% of not correct type parts on them... like Dyane, Ami, GS, CX parts on 2CV, or even Opel parts , or new Citroen parts incorporated... A nightmare for me and customers...

 

[D Spares & Tyres]

I have sold the majority of my 2CV and Dyane bits but still have quite a few left at very reasonable prices. What sort of things do you need?

[Bfg]

.

^ Thanks, That's good of you, but I really don't know what 2cv or Dyane bits I need.  I really like the idea of a driveable Dyane, but the one I bought I'm sending back as it's not (structurally) as described, so I'm back to just the Ami Super for the time being.

 

 

16th Jan 2017 :  Just a little work today, as I had to take the Chrysler down to the garage due to the ABS light now showing.  Anyhows, I'm expecting the obscure 9mm bolts (to fasten the seat belts into the sills with) to come in this week, and also a steering rack (pinion).  So before these go in I wanted to clean up the mess and paint the inside floors (rather than work around the belts and column).  I don't have room to open the RHS door within the confines of my garage so I've only done the LHS floors so far ..but it's a little more done in the right direction.. 

 

^  took a fair amount of cleaning up of muddy foot prints, LHM oil stains from the leaky master cylinder, which still needs attending to (I thought it had stopped leaking !) and the grease of numerous steering pinion trials.  I also sanded down some of the PU sealant ridges (where smeared) just to tidy things up..  Yeah I know it'll be under the carpets ..but I'm an old giffer so I like things to be right even when out of sight. 

 

Anyhow painted over now..

Looks much nicer to me now.  btw. it's not greenish colour in life - it's old English white (which dries to a satin sheen).

 

I also didn't like the way the inner seat belts sat..

^ and that's with a spacer under one, which was better than the way they were.

 

...so I made a bracket (actually heavily modified something I had)..

^ I know it doesn't seem like much - but it's surprising how long it takes without professional gear to make something like that.

 

Anyway that's all I got done today..   but it was much better than nowt

 

Bfg

 

...bo-locks just noticed I got those seat belt buckles the wrong way around (re. their press button). oh well it's just undoing one bolt now and switching sides. Not a biggie.

11,563 views

[forddeliveryboy]

Thanks for proposing M10 solution.. But I will stick with an idea to produce parts as much as possible to an original design and spec.

 

Anyway... this is a joy of buying partial dismantled stored in boxes car... you are not the only one...

 

... example from my new workshop ... 3 cars, looks good but..  ad-least 30% missing bolts and parts and some 40% of not correct type parts on them... like Dyane, Ami, GS, CX parts on 2CV, or even Opel parts , or new Citroen parts incorporated... A nightmare for me and customers...

 

 

 

Hi Janez, this thread has left me wondering how much a reasonably solid 2cv or Dyane (or Ami, for that matter) costs in your part of the world if you hunt around and buy privately. Perhaps one which is a little scraped, needing some paint and the usual kingpins etc, but on the road and in use.

[2CVKeza]

Hi Janez, this thread has left me wondering how much a reasonably solid 2cv or Dyane (or Ami, for that matter) costs in your part of the world if you hunt around and buy privately. Perhaps one which is a little scraped, needing some paint and the usual kingpins etc, but on the road and in use.

 

 

see here...

 

http://www.avto.net/Ads/results.asp?znamka=Citroen&model=&modelID=&tip=&znamka2=&model2=&tip2=&znamka3=&model3=&tip3=&cenaMin=0&cenaMax=999999&cenaNetto=0&cenaDDV=0&brezcene=0&letnikMin=0&letnikMax=2090&bencin=0&zavore=&pogon=0&klima=&servo=&lastnik=&servis=&automatic=0&starost2=999&star1=1&star2=1&star3=&star4=1&star5=&karambolirano=0&oblika=0&ccmMin=0&ccmMax=99999&mocMin=&mocMax=&kmMin=0&kmMax=9999999&kwMin=0&kwMax=999&motortakt=0&motorvalji=0&lokacija=0&izpis=1&sirina=0&dolzina=&dolzinaMIN=0&dolzinaMAX=100&nosilnostMIN=0&nosilnostMAX=999999&lezisc=&presek=0&premer=0&col=0&vijakov=0&vozilo=&plin=&prodajalec=2&estekla=&leder=0&navi=&alufelge=&sibedah=&gretje=&tempomat=&zaklepanje=&vlecna=0&aklima=&SLOavto=&xenonke=&espsistem=&garage=0&airbag=&najem=0&hibrid=&garancija=0&oldtimer=0&barva=&showguarantee=&weltauto=&levjapriloznost=0&PIA=&PSLO=&akcija=0&citroenselect=0&sedezev=0&petzvezdic=0&paketgarancije=&paketgarancije=&topp=0&EKO=0&door=0&MEN=0&VIN=&broker=0&prikazkategorije=0&kategorija=0&oglasrubrika=1&zaloga=10&arhiv=0&presort=4&tipsort=ASC&stran=1&SUBmodelsearch=2CV

[forddeliveryboy]

Heck! I'm left wondering where the best value cars remain in Europe - or maybe they don't anymore! Thanks for the link.

 

A quick browse of the South American market suggests they're not so much cheaper there, either. But would make a good collection thread. 

[2CVKeza]

Citroen A series is not cheap anymore... get over it

[forddeliveryboy]

I think there are still good value cars around in the UK if you bide your time and look fastidiously, often £1500-2500, but there are plenty of traps to fall into if you can't judge their structural integrity accurately.

The cost of some parts is more scary.

[Bfg]

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..arrived.. Here's hoping we're on the way..

 

[Bfg]

..

 

 

 

 

 

 

11,680 views

[Bfg]

yep.,  I'm sorry to say that's what you get for your money.   ..chips with no fish    

 

As said in a previous posting ; nobody want to take their pinion out of the rack.  They'll sell you a 'low mileage' rack and then it's your risk, so you buy the cost of complete rack plus heavy postage, for one little part. ...which is seemingly otherwise unobtainable.! 

 

Interestingly, the bearing was dry despite all the clean grease around the pinion when removed. It's a bit rough, but no play.  If it were a wheel bearing it would rumble ..but for a steering pinion it'll be OK.   Clearly this is something that needs to be removed frequently for greasing,  as there is no other way of getting grease in there !

[2CVKeza]

 

Is that pinion as fucked as it looks?

 

Ben

 

... I dont like that ... not with a heavy and "strong" GS engine in front of that damage on pinion ...

[Bfg]

... I dont like that ... not with a heavy and "strong" GS engine in front of that damage on pinion ...

 

... get over it

 

" seemingly otherwise unobtainable.!  "

 

You looked and I've looked.  And I'll continue to look..  Otherwise, what might you suggest ?

[forddeliveryboy]

That's a little odd, pinions I've taken out when replacing the rack bush on 2cvs/Dyanes have been in excellent condition - to the point I'd be surprised to see a badly damaged one on removal if the steering assembly had been used normally and not previously rebuilt by a bodger.

 

Did it come out easily, did you release the preload by undoing the castle nut first?

 

Otherwise it's possible the extra mass has caused the damage, or that someone has been in there before and the preload has been too tight or too slack, or they've cocked up removing/replacing it. 

 

If they are under-engineered/more stressed for the Super, I'd be very cagey about using the damaged one - it appears to be chipped and will chew things up in time.

[Bfg]

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^  yes, I'd suggest the extra mass / loading has caused the damage  ..particularly at parking speeds. 

 

Perhaps Citroen got it wrong, but because it was only in production for two years - it never got beefed up (as the rest of the car was).  Or of course, only being used with this car - they might even have been made with the wrong grade of steel or case hardening. ..But it never came to light within those first two years. 

 

It may simply have been that the rack & pinion were changed (for improved ratio) but its pre-load spring wasn't.., and so not man enough to hold the pinion against the rack when the steering was on full lock (wheels at that extraordinary A-series angle) and in effect having to lift the weight of that engine back to an upright position ?  It is then perfectly plausible that the pinion slipped a gear ..and in doing so chipped the teeth ?

 

^ Ok this a Dyane ..but it illustrates the point

 

..Or it might have been that in reducing the steering's ratio - the teeth became rather fine &/or a slightly rounder shape which again led to a tendency to slip a gear and chip a tooth or two?  (below)

 

^ Left hand is my 7-tooth pinion compared to the 8-tooth of the 2cv/Dyane.  Without doubt anyone looking at these would say the chunkier looking / heavier duty one is on the right, but that's the 8-tooth from the much lighter weight 2cv/Dyane.

 

And/or perhaps the double UJ piece / different angle might have caused unforeseen loading ?  I don't know if Ami's also with a slightly heavier body and the same steering column are also prone to wear or damage ? 

 

Many possible scenarios, and perhaps a combination of several. ?

 

As I said above.  I'm not happy with this one either, but I have nothing much on offer. And so I'll continue to look out for a better one, &/or explore the possibilities of  having my old one rebuilt and re-profiled.  In the meantime - I consider this as a temporary measure - to get the car through the MOT.   I'll then drive the car with due consideration regarding it's condition and also keep it well greased.

[forddeliveryboy]

If Pembro has rebuilt Super racks with 8 internals, then see this - http://www.mehari-2cv-spare.co.uk/steering-rack--c--ami--f--direction--sf--cremailler.html

 

It's not such an awkward job as many will say, rather mind over matter if you've never done one before. If you're buying a complete rack assembly, then likely easy enough at home with a tool box and bench, having rebuilt motorbikes.

[Bfg]

It's not such an awkward job as many will say, rather mind over matter if you've never done one before. If it's simply a matter of removing old and substituting with new, then definitely something you should be able to do at home, having rebuilt all those motorbikes.

 

 

It's mid-January,  my driveways is cold, wet, grassy gravel and not at all level, so the only flat place I have to work is inside the garage, where I don't have the room to open the doors fully on one side, and hardly at all on the other.   The job entails removing the swinging arm on one side (which I don't have the tools for) and extracting the whole rack assembly with other arm out of the other.  That's the link arms, anti-roll bar, suspension links & dampers off both sides, drive shafts and a host of crap in the way, plus the front end and inner and outer wings off I believe, and a section of the exhaust.  And then it's not just substitution with the new,  I'd have to rebuild the one I have in the car because the casing is different (re. gearbox mount). wcpgw !?   I know : excuses, excuses

[forddeliveryboy]

It's mid-January,  my driveways is cold, wet, grassy gravel and not at all level, so the only flat place I have to work is inside the garage, where I don't have the room to open the doors fully on one side, and hardly at all on the other.   The job entails removing the swinging arm on one side (which I don't have the tools for) and extracting the whole rack assembly with other arm out of the other.  That's the link arms, anti-roll bar, suspension links & dampers off both sides, drive shafts and a host of crap in the way, plus the front end and inner and outer wings off I believe, and a section of the exhaust.  And then it's not just substitution with the new,  I'd have to rebuild the one I have in the car because the casing is different (re. gearbox mount). wcpgw !?   I know : excuses, excuses   

 

 

Aye, it's not so bad at all once stuck in - the worst part by far is freeing rusty bolts. SInce yours has been apart recently, everything will come undone easily. Defintely no special tool needed for the axle arm bearing nuts, a drift won't damage them at all. Wait for a sunny day and it'll be right enough.

 

Worst bit is if you do it with the car at ground level so your knees are bent, but hey-ho. Old Cits have the ability scare many off, once you get stuck into them, corrosion excepted, they're not so bad at all. Even a DS - they just take longer.

[Bfg]

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I had a brother like that once.. always used to say " you know what you should do " 

 

..if it were late springtime and thereafter any time through to late autumn it might be a different matter.,  but working outside this time of year, crawling around on rough, wet, uneven ground isn't for this old giffer. - Thank you very much   

[Bfg]

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Anyone have an idea what the steering column bearings are like on an Ami-8 / Super.  My steering wheel has about 3mm up n' down play at the rim,  which is most likely an MOT failure.   Perhaps someone has a diagram or part number ? 

 

Thanks

 

Pete

[Louise2cv]

*I know nothing disclaimer*

 

It that not something you could get machined by someone? As someone who has a dad making car parts, although I know nothing about the ins and outs.

 

*Apologies if that is a stupid or irritating question*

[Bfg]

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In pursuit of  knowledge or wisdom - no question is stupid  ..but often I see some answers which are !

 

Making something like a spiral cut pinion and then the spline on the other end - to exactly the same dimensions is not at all easy and specialist machine tooling is needed.   However., it is not beyond the realm of possibility to have the teeth on my old pinion rebuilt with weld, and then re-cut, and then re hardened.   Again the same expertise and cutting machine is required (to do it accurately) and I'd guess it's not economically viable to do so.  However I shall make inquires     

 

Pete

[Louise2cv]

I'm going to see dad this weekend, if you want me to ask, I could.

 

Send me dimensions and pictures I guess and see what he says. His business is mostly Morgan three-wheelers so one off parts aren't out of the question I don't think.

 

Can't promise anything but do you want me to ask?

[Bfg]

^ yes that would be kind of you - thank you.

 

I'll PM you the drawing and pictures.

 

Pete

[beko1987]

It's mid-January, my driveways is cold, wet, grassy gravel and not at all level, so the only flat place I have to work is inside the garage, where I don't have the room to open the doors fully on one side, and hardly at all on the other. The job entails removing the swinging arm on one side (which I don't have the tools for) and extracting the whole rack assembly with other arm out of the other. That's the link arms, anti-roll bar, suspension links & dampers off both sides, drive shafts and a host of crap in the way, plus the front end and inner and outer wings off I believe, and a section of the exhaust. And then it's not just substitution with the new, I'd have to rebuild the one I have in the car because the casing is different (re. gearbox mount). wcpgw !? I know : excuses, excuses

Its a poor excuse! You've previously travelled thousands of miles to work on it with limited tools and resources several times, and now it's at home by your house your moaning because the ground isn't flat?

 

Thick sheets of ply to level things out a bit?