oil leak additive - any recommendations

[scooters]

OK, don't start on me with 'you shouldn't bodge these things - you need to replace the seals' because I do have some very good reasons FOR looking for a bodge solution namely - I'm not up to doing the work at the moment.

 

The issue is the Scooby, like all boxer engines, is pissing oil out of several seals - crankcase seal (suddenly got worse), O rings on the cams (it's a quad cam) and the O ring on the crank shaft are all suspects and there is a known leak from the cam cover gasket on the starboard side. Fact is that high mileage sccob engines love to leak.

 

Anyway the fix for these is straigtforward but labourious and involves quite a lot of dosh as there are several parts you might as well replace at the same time -

 

steps from what I understand are:

 

remove expansion tank

remove radiator fans

remove timing cover

remove timing belt

remove the 3 pullys

 

this gives you access to the 4 can o rings and the main crankshaft seal but as you have gone this far you might as well replace the oil pump, timing belt and tensioners, whilst at it.

 

next you remove the crank case, scrape off the old gasket, gas seal and new gasket on the crank case cover and bolt it back on.

 

then replace the oil pump, pullies and timing belt, timing belt cover and fans/expansion tank.

oil change - job done

 

The gaskets on the rocker covers are a jack the car up/wheel off for access, unbolt and replace. about an hour on each side - there is a bodge employing adding additional washers to the screw nuts without removing the covers which I will probably try first - it effectively compresses the gasket further.

 

now the issue with the above is a combination of cost of parts - timing belt, water pump, seals, gaskets, tensioners etc - all adds up. In addition I'll need a couple of decent quality large C clamps - in short looking at about £150 for the bits. Time wise I reckon I could do it in a day, Skills wise well, it's OK BUT refitting the timing belt on a quad cam boxer is NOT easy and really a 2 man job. Health wise, given that I am recovering from surgery - probably not a good idea to tackle this at the moment.

 

Therefore, I am considering adding an oil leak product - these essentially seem to cause the o rings and gaskets to swell up thus sealing any cracks or wear in them - yes in might not last 20k but then I don't need it to I just need it to do the job until I am in a positio n to carry out the above work.

 

Does anyone have any recommendations - I'm looking for the K/Steel Seal of the Oil Leak World?

 

thanks all

 

Rich

[whitevanman]

I have only once had success with oil leak sealers and that was on an old Pug 2.3 dizzler in a Sierra, the seals were some sort of cord type, but I used Wynn's sealer and it worked, the other times have all been failures, but i can totally get where you are going with this as Scoobies are interesting to work on, enough so that I used a very good friend and Scooby mechanic down here for quad cam stuff, the rest of the engines are simple to work on....and I hope you getr better soon and the offer of the use of the garage is still there if you need it.

[Albert Ross]

I'd be looking for a blocked breather, or fucked about with hoses..... Once that's identified as "no fault" then commence with oil containment duties, or you'll be chasing your arse around for months, and you can't even hammer smaller sockets over oil leaks.

[scooters]

very good point Albert - thinking about it logically, given that the severity of the leak is only apparant when running and when running under revs this is a good call. It's not backing up into the intake system as it is running pretty well and no obvious smoke - oil pump breather is a suspect methinks - I need to use it this afternoon but will keep the revs down and drive like a giffer. I'll have a look at the breather system tomorrow - the hose on the PCV looks a bit crusty so there could be some oil ingress there, this won't be the oil leak culprit but could end up in a nasty vacuum leak.

 

I have found a bag of extra long pipe cleaners!

 

how I wish Subaru had followed DAF's design of making sure you could dismantle the whole of the front end to get access to the engine. Boxers are on the whole straightforward - provided you leave some knuckle space between the radiator and the timing belt that is...

 

could be worse - it could be French (I still have Pug jobs to do)

 

thanks for the offer WVM - I might well pop down your way in a month or two to sort these out - rear shocks and new discs and pads are also on the to do list..

 

mind you - you buy a car like this for £500 what the hell do you expect?

[scooters]

ah! a scoob driving mate has told me to check the oil sump plug - they get finger tight over time and when that happens piss oil - as it happens there is a good drip coming from it when stationary - won't hurt to stick a socket on it and give it a twirl

[whitevanman]

you'll be more than welcome, I even have a heater in the workshop

[dollywobbler]

Rocker gaskets would be a sensible first step (well, after checking the breather's not borked). On a lot of engines, these can get all seepy. I've got shit loads of oil leaks to find on the BX, so was also wondering about bodge fluids...

[scooters]

there is definately a leak from the off side rocker gasket - the bodge trick involves washers added to the bolts which hauls everything a bit closer However, all scoobs do this when they reasch a certain age - there is another, more squirtsome leak from somewhere

[Des]

I've never used any stop leak additives, but I've been told they work by some, and make things much worse by others. The theory is good, it's a solvent based sort of an incompatible fluid that gets absorbed by the seals and they'll swell up and fill their space again, Where an oilseal on a rotating component is concerned, they wear out obviously, but also become hard, micro cracking on the sealing lip surface even, and the little spring in them doing the job of a rubber band keeping the bugger tight on the shaft can't do it's job. My theory of the success stories is that enough of the additive has reached the 'O' rings and oilseals to make them supple once again without compromising the mechanical integrity, the failures could be down to excessive additive swelling the seals up until they crumble. If I were to use the stuff I think the trick would be to add a little at a time until the leak stops.

Also worth noting, I've had something in the past that was pissing everywhere, gave it an oilchange and a clean so I could monitor where the leak/s were at, turned out that changing from synthetic (that the thing had always had, according to the multitude of stickers all over the slam panel) to normal oil cured it, stayed bone dry it did.

[scooters]

cheers des,

 

I have also found, especially with high miles, switching to mineral can help

[Formula Autos]

Kind of what Des was alluding to, I guess, but how about using a thicker grade of oil? That would mean it's far less likely to be thin enough to escape when warmed up. If changing from synthetic (or whatever's in there at the moment) doesn't work, obviously.

 

It's a bit of a bodge to be honest, but as most of us here run 'end of life' vehicles anyhow, does it matter in the long run whether the oil's the absolutely correct grade?

 

Your car, your call, and all that. If you only want a year or two more out of it ....

[scooters]

I've already wanged in a couple of litres of 15 40

 

now very suspicious of drain plug - will be looking carefully at it later - they do become loose and the worse loss is at low revs - cardboard test at standing is a small amount directly underneath plug

[scooters]

this is getting very strange - I have noticed that it only seems to happen at low revs, and is worse when reversing or manouvering. the oil level on the dip stick goes down to low but there is no over heating, no oil pressure warning light and the car performs fine.

 

Coule this be because of the oil that gets trapped in the rocker cover 'sumps' - they are angled down and I cannot see how all the oil can return to the sump.

 

I suspected gear box due to the reversing but the leak is definately at the front - I really suspect the oil drain plug - problem is with the side skirting the car needs jacked up and the weather is making it impossible.

[504GL]

there is definately a leak from the off side rocker gasket - the bodge trick involves washers added to the bolts which hauls everything a bit closer However, all scoobs do this when they reasch a certain age - there is another, more squirtsome leak from somewhere

If you do the rocker cover gaskets..... for the love of god please follow this guys advice

 

http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.php?p ... ostcount=9

 

The amount of Scooby forums which have threads where people have shelled out on genuine parts and then still had the leak because of using the wrong sealant. We had both sides on our Legacy Turbo done a while back because it was spunking oil onto the exhaust and I think I had the Loctite 1215 stuff and it's not leaked a drop since It's done about 220k miles now and doesn't leave any oil at all after the gaskets were done properly.

 

Getting everything clean before trying to stick it back together is also pretty important too.

[504GL]

I've already wanged in a couple of litres of 15 40

 

now very suspicious of drain plug - will be looking carefully at it later - they do become loose and the worse loss is at low revs - cardboard test at standing is a small amount directly underneath plug

 

The oil from the rocker covers tends to run all the way underneath the engine. I would get the rocker cover gaskets sorted, that may well sort it tbh.

[scooters]

thanks fella - good call - I'll buy some washers and try the washer bodge -

 

whole different language these boxers - what's so interesting is how visit any scoob forum THEY ALL DO IT!

 

 

I also think that due to the rainbow effect of oil on wet tarmac and the amount of rain we have had that this is more noticable - it is interesting that we only just noticed the issue -

 

There are so many potential leak issues with these I'll start with the breather, then the rocker covers (which are a known leak) I'll also check the sump plug - apparantly they have a very large plug which relies on it's seal ring as a nut lock - it is single use only and cheapskate pikey bodgers (like the previous owner who looked like Frank from Shameless) will never replace it. It frequently comes loose or even falls out - IIt's been so wet I can't even check the plug yet.

 

It it isn't the above then I suspect crankcase/shaft/cam seals - hope not!

[504GL]

thanks fella - good call - I'll buy some washers and try the washer bodge -

 

whole different language these boxers - what's so interesting is how visit any scoob forum THEY ALL DO IT!

 

 

I also think that due to the rainbow effect of oil on wet tarmac and the amount of rain we have had that this is more noticable - it is interesting that we only just noticed the issue -

 

There are so many potential leak issues with these I'll start with the breather, then the rocker covers (which are a known leak) I'll also check the sump plug - apparantly they have a very large plug which relies on it's seal ring as a nut lock - it is single use only and cheapskate pikey bodgers (like the previous owner who looked like Frank from Shameless) will never replace it. It frequently comes loose or even falls out - IIt's been so wet I can't even check the plug yet.

 

It it isn't the above then I suspect crankcase/shaft/cam seals - hope not!

 

If you haven't already, register on www.uklegacy.com They really know their stuff there and being a Legacy forum rather than a Subaru one tends to attract a different crowd *cough*No Impreza tossers*cough* Nothing wrong with Impreza's (they're just shortened Legacy's) but a lot of them seem to be idiots.

 

If it were me I'd at least look into getting the rocker cover gaskets. I bought the gaskets (1 for each side plus 1 plug gasket per side also and 6 seals for the bolts) purely because I had been told that it's the sort of job you don't want to do twice because you have to remove so much stuff to get access and the job itself isn't that easy in such a confined space either. Best to do the plugs while you're there too.

 

At this price I would definitely get the seals if that's for both sides as it appears to be

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROCKER-COVER- ... 2eb8090d3e

[scooters]

brilliant! thanks mate