St.Jude’s Road to Perdition: Part Deux // 2008 Peugeot Partner Tepee - HAUNTED/CURSED

[St.Jude]

7 minutes ago, rusty_vw_man said:

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/
 

Start here - citizens advice can also help. As far as I can see seller agreed to find fix, so that is covered. It will be a fight but you do have rights at this stage. 

I’ll sleep on this and call tomorrow. Doesn’t help the fucker is at distance from me.

Other alternative is fix it, get it working, move it on regardless of the dealer.

I don’t know but a £300pcm motor looks fucking wonderful value for money tonight.

[artdjones]

7 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

So what do I expect to get back from this? A straight refund on the car or the work done by this garage as well? It was on a PX, cash and credit card.

I need to find the advert again, I’ve a feeling it mentions it as a trade sale but I’m not 100% the receipts I have state that. I’m deffo not a trader anyway.

There's no such thing as a trade sale unless it's to a bona fide member of the trade. The only exception might be if the sale was specifically spares or repair.

The cleaning procedure that used to be mandatory when a turbo failed on these included a new oil pump pickup. If you wanted the turbo's warranty honoured. A turbo failure doesn't necessarily mean debris in the oil. 

[Brigsy]

Very rare for oil pumps to fail tbh. Do wonder if its not primed up properly or needs a procedure to do it after sump removal.

If its been ran for any period with the oil light on, and no oil flow to the new turbo then it will be bad news in the future.

As above, if it can go back id send it.

[vaughant]

2 hours ago, St.Jude said:

Well there is this. But again, it didn’t throw a light when I parked it up. No mention or report of a light at any point up until now. The first light I got was when I was 10 mins away from the garage and it was the EML which threw up the EGR and Turbo, along with the anti pollution fault. From me getting it to this point it did 160/170 miles. 80/90 on the motorway, the rest A roads.

There is something that has played in my head and I had to re-read what I said above, and (I think) @artdjones mentioned two things previously regarding a cleaning procedure with these engines as linked and the injectors. But I can’t really tell even say I’m being right thinking this.

Wednesday I ring up for an update, bloke on the phone has been waiting for a pipe as it’s congealed behind the turbo. Possibly/likely oil return pipe. Should be good for Friday.

I call today and I’m told it’s NFG at the moment. And this is the key bit that is going round my head. They have fitted the turbo, put it together, started it and then they’re presented with the oil pressure light. They check the filter and it’s bone dry.

Then they take the sump off, and clean it. They comment it’s been off recently. There is crap on the pick up, and they clean that, but the light persists and the filter is dry. Then the oil pump is mentioned.

So at this point two things: doesn’t the clean procedure mention dropping the sump first? Can’t say that’s been done at the moment, only after the turbo has gone on. Secondly - what causes this failure? A quick google mentioned loose(?) injectors creating carbon.

When I called at 3pm for an update and I was told 10am Monday for the pump the Land Cruiser popped in my head. It never fucking leaves tbh. But when I did the injectors the whole cam case/cover was covered in caked on shit. Gloopy old oil looking like black bogies. Looked like my lads nose when he has a cold from nursery, but black.

I mentioned to him would it not be worth taking the rocker cover off and seeing the state of the top of it? He didn’t seem to think it was.

I explained to a mate my point of view after, oil spends its time at the bottom of the engine, only being thrown to the top when it’s on. When you turn it off the oil clings to the top, but if it’s hot and old then shit accumulates at the top and burns in or clags together. Then he mentions if the turbos fucked wouldn’t that have thrown swarf in to the oil on the return? Which the pipe is congealed.

So yeah, I have bought a nail. But now the thought I have is have I ended up bringing it somewhere who haven’t done this before and aren’t really sure themselves how to cure it?

It’s just fairly shit and amazingly lads this isn’t the worst thing to happen this week! No one dead or in hospital but even more infuriating/anger inducing than this. May have a thread for that too for cathartic reasons.

The crap in the head of your old cruiser was most likely the unburned derv causing what a lot of Merc owners call " black death" when it basically turns to coal on the top of the rocker in the Mercs case. It's not death at all for those engines but yes it does cause a lot of work to clean it all off. 

The likelihood of it getting into the oil ways enough to block it and cause no oil pressure seems unlikely to me. 

No oil at the filter sounds very serious to me if I'm honest, that should be really flowing through there.

Try for a refund if you can I'd say but yeah have a sleep on it and see where you are.

I can recall a really shoddy mechanic I knew, who amazingly is still in the trade to this day telling me all about the 1.6d back then and how they ate turbos. I put this more down to his shit skills but his advice to anyone after he'd done a turbo on one was take it straight to a garage and p/x it for something else. 

Someone had him fit the turbo as it was smoking like hell after they'd had a px price so he did the job then advised them to take it straight there. They didn't, went on a bit of a drive to do some errands first and the turbo gave up just before they got to the garage.

They are very personable things these Berlingo's and I recommend them to anyone who'll listen but you can't save them all.

[St.Jude]

11 hours ago, vaughant said:

No oil at the filter sounds very serious to me if I'm honest, that should be really flowing through there.

Try for a refund if you can I'd say but yeah have a sleep on it and see where you are.

Yeah, would love to know why that’s occurred. I’m leaning in to thinking it’s had the carbon build up shite and it’s lead to this.

I rang them anyway. The short story is they’re not really entertaining a refund. They’ve sanctioned the fix, and as far as the blokes concerned if it’s a £100 oil pump do it and be done. But if it doesn’t work then I have to send it back to them and then talk of a refund proper can begin.

Think ultimately, as before, they are footing the bill for the turbo and shit. His issue with cost was down to labour. But you know what. Fuck them. 90% sure he knows the issue and he’s done this to it before. Can’t prove that, but there we are.

I can argue the shit with him all I want but they are footing the bill for the bulk of this. If it were at their garage I’d have the same shit again miles away. At least at this garage - whether they’re competent or not - it’s closer to deal with. I don’t know.

I did however find this forum thread which makes me feel a bit better about it all: https://rmsmotoring.com/forum/threads/citroen-c4-1-6hdi-stop-low-oil-pressure-light.188713/

But I am seriously looking at finances and shit and seeing how I can buy a brand new one. Fuck this nonsense really.

[mercedade]

It does sound like it's been over-complicated.

What's the barrier to "give the seller the opportunity to fix the car you've just bought"?

So far, this process is still going on, right? The car is not yet fixed, so continue to give the seller the opportunity to fix it.

If they decide they just want out of it having tried what they're interested in paying for, that's up to them - they pay the garage what they agreed, and they give you the money back.

I cannot anywhere in this thread see any car that would make me think this is the car I need to own. Just get another one. Start again. It's not like you're trying to fix the last remaining Dino on earth.

[St.Jude]

25 minutes ago, mercedade said:

It does sound like it's been over-complicated.

What's the barrier to "give the seller the opportunity to fix the car you've just bought"?

So far, this process is still going on, right? The car is not yet fixed, so continue to give the seller the opportunity to fix it.

If they decide they just want out of it having tried what they're interested in paying for, that's up to them - they pay the garage what they agreed, and they give you the money back.

I cannot anywhere in this thread see any car that would make me think this is the car I need to own. Just get another one. Start again. It's not like you're trying to fix the last remaining Dino on earth.

The barrier for me is the distance. I got the car from Wales and the distance of sending it back weighed a bit in my head. But it could be done and it’s been done before, I opted not to. The overriding anxiety I had with getting them to do it was based on what happened to the Land Cruiser. I bought that and it had 3 months warranty on it, it spent about 6/7 weeks with them (again at distance) and they really did just sit on it running the clock down on it. And in the finish up it still didn’t get fixed by them anyway.

Obviously I take it to where is close to me thinking I was doing the right thing but I haven’t on reflection. I have made the situation complicated by opting to engage a local garage to sort it, so while the seller has said they’d foot the bill to them they don’t know if I’ve opted for a good garage or not. I feel I had, part of me wonders if I have or not, but I don’t also believe I’d have had it sorted properly by the seller either.

And even getting another one - there is one on AutoTrader for the same I paid for mine in Mavern as a private sale - noting a new turbo but has been told the oil pump needs replacing. Might still be there I’ll get a screenshot when I can.

There is nothing unique about the car, well aware of that, and it’s spent longer in a garage than in my possession. I’m minded of the Land Cruiser and the utter bullshit and ultimate end game of that, and it took 3 years to get to that point. With all said and done, so far, I won’t have this car 3 years. But I can’t say I’m keen on another one either.

There is a lot going on in my head I think.

[warninglight]

Sorry to see this!

I noticed you mentioned that part of your payment was on credit card. That can change things in your favour regarding rejecting the car etc. Any sensible dealer won't take credit card payments, even 10% part payment for a car as your protections are (I believe) applied to the whole value of the car.

I suggest doing some digging on your rights there, and speaking to your CC provider.

[rusty_vw_man]

It sounds like your head is full of stuff making it hard to see clearly. 

Make sure you have written comms that you are to get it fixed and then they’ll pay, and I would assume that this is direct to the garage, not refunding you. Every time there is a new issue get the same written comms to continue. 

The laws behind this don’t seem to mandate you to physically return it. If you look at it, you were told a new turbo would fix it, and you were happy with the level of future risk this presented. It did not fix it.

This lack of oil pressure is a brand new issue that it didn’t have before. You are no longer interested in a fix, due to the longer term implications. 

So the seller has a choice. They can come and collect it, or you could offer to drive it back with the oil light on and zero oil reaching the filter. How they get it back isn’t your problem. They will squeal like stuck pigs, but if they aren’t total cowboys they’ll know this is one that’s not worked for them. 

[St.Jude]

3 minutes ago, rusty_vw_man said:

Make sure you have written comms that you are to get it fixed and then they’ll pay, and I would assume that this is direct to the garage, not refunding you.

I do, but it’s to the tune of I pay then they’ll reimburse me.

4 minutes ago, rusty_vw_man said:

The laws behind this don’t seem to mandate you to physically return it. If you look at it, you were told a new turbo would fix it, and you were happy with the level of future risk this presented. It did not fix it.

This lack of oil pressure is a brand new issue that it didn’t have before. You are no longer interested in a fix, due to the longer term implications. 

So the seller has a choice. They can come and collect it, or you could offer to drive it back with the oil light on and zero oil reaching the filter. How they get it back isn’t your problem. They will squeal like stuck pigs, but if they aren’t total cowboys they’ll know this is one that’s not worked for them. 

Does me opting to use a local garage and not the seller muddy this at all? I mean it’s not even at a dodgy mechanic on a cash basis it’s a proper business.

[rusty_vw_man]

4 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

Does me opting to use a local garage and not the seller muddy this at all? I mean it’s not even at a dodgy mechanic on a cash basis it’s a proper business.

Don’t believe so - you’ve given them a chance to repair, and you’ve agreed a mutually beneficial arrangement for you to use a local garage. They had the option to say no! 

[St.Jude]

6 minutes ago, rusty_vw_man said:

Don’t believe so - you’ve given them a chance to repair, and you’ve agreed a mutually beneficial arrangement for you to use a local garage. They had the option to say no! 

To be fair I think they tried to say no in terms of to pay 50% of the invoice. At which point I said no it’s the full lot given I had to pay for the DPF shit.

I did ring the garage and they’re doing it at the moment and I’ll call back at 3ish, just so I can get the wife to pick me up in case it still isn’t working.

However, really, if suddenly the oil pump works and it’s fixed I still can’t throw it back can I? It’s working? As fucking stupid as it sounds.

[bigfella2]

I've got a feeling that the seller will say the garage you use has fucked it up and try to get out of it that way, I can't see an amicable solution to this,that's gonna suit seller and buyer. That's why I hope it's good news at three o'clock. Shit situation to be in.

Didn't you fancy a petrol one, or are they thin on the ground too.

[St.Jude]

11 minutes ago, bigfella2 said:

I've got a feeling that the seller will say the garage you use has fucked it up and try to get out of it that way, I can't see an amicable solution to this,that's gonna suit seller and buyer. That's why I hope it's good news at three o'clock. Shit situation to be in.

Didn't you fancy a petrol one, or are they thin on the ground too.

Yeah, 100% my thoughts on it too. On the other hand, if it’s all done it’s done. I have no great confidence in it at the moment, whether I get that back if it does work I don’t know.

As for petrol, it didn’t really matter. It was more had to be a van with the slide doors, air con, and presentable and in budget. I don’t know if there are petrol ones of this vintage (and if there are I’ve not seen them) as that period of 2008-2014 diesel was the saviour of everything.

[Tickman]

2 hours ago, St.Jude said:

However, really, if suddenly the oil pump works and it’s fixed I still can’t throw it back can I? It’s working? As fucking stupid as it sounds.

Doesn't that describe what you were after in the first place, a functioning car, if it does why would you be wanting to return it?

 

[bigfella2]

Yeah the earlier ones are 8v tu engines, later ones are Prince engines and I think the latest ones are of 1.2 purewank. So as they got newer the engines got less reliable.

[St.Jude]

9 minutes ago, Tickman said:

Doesn't that describe what you were after in the first place, a functioning car, if it does why would you be wanting to return it?

 

Yeah exactly. That’s what’s turning my head is the potential for a grenade, not trying to put a grenade together after it’s blown.

Called garage and they’re still on it waiting for an oil pick up pipe. The pipe was blocked and whoever has been in it before has pushed through the gauze. It’s a plastic part, so that’s having to be replaced. I think from what he said the gauze is there just pushed through allowing all the crap in to it.

[Zelandeth]

If it's had oil pressure/contamination issues (and given what's been found I seriously doubt this is the first time the light has been on prior to you getting it), I'd absolutely as a minimum been wanting to pull a cap or two off the crank if the sump is already off.  If the bottom end is fscked there's bugger all point in messing about with oil pumps, belts etc.

[St.Jude]

10 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

If it's had oil pressure/contamination issues (and given what's been found I seriously doubt this is the first time the light has been on prior to you getting it), I'd absolutely as a minimum been wanting to pull a cap or two off the crank if the sump is already off.  If the bottom end is fscked there's bugger all point in messing about with oil pumps, belts etc.

Think they have done that but what I’m going to do is go down there later on just to have a look myself.

Definitely isn’t the first time the sump has been off for this 100%.

[St.Jude]

Hold on - I’m going to go down there after work to have a look myself.

Re-read what I wrote on the last page and they’ve told me Friday they cleaned the pick up and they were waiting on an oil pump for today. Now the pick up is replaced because the gauze was forced through and they are waiting for a new one.

[vaughant]

Well it's shit or bust now, it's in with them and fingers crossed the repairs get it going again. 

I started looking to show you how easy it is to buy a decent Berlingo for your budget and in truth the value on these has gone up hugely, very hard to find anything much below £2k that's roadworthy without 200k on the clock yet oddly I can't give my older one away on here for £300🤣🤣🤣🤣.... However I have had a lot of interest in it on Gumtree but I need to get myself together to sell it. Big birthday (now) yesterday which was a bit of a damp squib if I'm honest and has put a few things in my life, that I probably already knew, into perspective in a not particularly good way, but also quite enlightening sadly hence I'm up at 145am contemplating 🤣🤣.

If they fix it and it works then just get out there and enjoy it, change the oil loads over the next few miles and take it from there. 

Looks like the seller hasn't completely fucked you off so you've got more than half a chance anyway.

[St.Jude]

6 hours ago, vaughant said:

Well it's shit or bust now, it's in with them and fingers crossed the repairs get it going again. 

I started looking to show you how easy it is to buy a decent Berlingo for your budget and in truth the value on these has gone up hugely, very hard to find anything much below £2k that's roadworthy without 200k on the clock yet oddly I can't give my older one away on here for £300🤣🤣🤣🤣.... However I have had a lot of interest in it on Gumtree but I need to get myself together to sell it. Big birthday (now) yesterday which was a bit of a damp squib if I'm honest and has put a few things in my life, that I probably already knew, into perspective in a not particularly good way, but also quite enlightening sadly hence I'm up at 145am contemplating 🤣🤣.

If they fix it and it works then just get out there and enjoy it, change the oil loads over the next few miles and take it from there. 

Looks like the seller hasn't completely fucked you off so you've got more than half a chance anyway.

Yeah, I mean the first one I see close(r) to me needs an oil pump 😂.

Happy birthday or epiphany day for yesterday, I think? Worth remembering plenty haven’t got to your age or even mine, so even if it’s a bit shit or what it could always be worse. You could have this vehicle 😉

Talking to my mate at work, based on the forum link above, I think after this I’ll give it 500/1000 miles then drop the oil again. But possibly do a 50/50 mix of oil and diesel for 2 mins, drop that, then do it a second time and drop that, then put fresh oil in. Maybe. It makes sense to do it.

I didn’t get to that garage anyway on Monday they were closed by the time I got there. Not heard anything yesterday. I’m working from home today so will be office bound tomorrow so it’s around the corner and I’ll pop in then.

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, St.Jude said:

...But possibly do a 50/50 mix of oil and diesel for 2 mins, drop that, then do it a second time and drop that, then put fresh oil in...

Don't.  Just use the right oil and do a couple of changes in close proximity, then change it regularly and at sensible intervals.

All flushing is likely to do is dislodge crap which has deposited itself in nice harmless locations to block your new oil pickup, turbo feed screen etc.

Not a bad idea on a slimy Rover V8, but on something that's as sensitive to contamination as these I'd not be entertaining it if it was my engine.

[St.Jude]

6 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Don't.  Just use the right oil and do a couple of changes in close proximity, then change it regularly and at sensible intervals.

All flushing is likely to do is dislodge crap which has deposited itself in nice harmless locations to block your new oil pickup, turbo feed screen etc.

Not a bad idea on a slimy Rover V8, but on something that's as sensitive to contamination as these I'd not be entertaining it if it was my engine.

Suppose you’re right. Didn’t consider the crap in harmless places.

[St.Jude]

So, it’s back. Test driven by the bloke who confirms it drives well. Engine sounds lovely.

New problem - fucking ignition barrel is playing up. You’ll put the key in and turn it on (before starting), and the starter will go to engage and stop, engage and stop. It will start but you have to fiddle with the key in the barrel to stop the starter engaging.

So that’s a new barrel if the squirt of magic cleaning spray/grease doesn’t cure it.

Have only driven it round the corner to work ready for the drive home later.

[ruffgeezer]

I'm not saying you've bought a pup, but at this point I wouldn't be at all surprised if it had chewed up your slippers and pissed on the carpet.

[St.Jude]

10 minutes ago, ruffgeezer said:

I'm not saying you've bought a pup, but at this point I wouldn't be at all surprised if it had chewed up your slippers and pissed on the carpet.

There is an episode of The Simpsons (Treehouse of Horror) where the school basically start killing the kids and feeding them to other children.

At the end of it, Groundskeeer Willie, Bart and Lisa are on the end of a plank with a drop towards a meat grinder. Bart says something like “don’t worry Lisa, something always happens to save…” and Willie drops in to the grinder. He then says “don’t worry Lisa, I am sure someone will come along and save the Simpson children”.

That always plays in my head when something gets fixed, and then something else breaks. Everytime, not even on this thing, just in general.

Well aware and waiting, and probably with a heightened pessimism, for the next thing to shit it’s bed with.

[St.Jude]

Well can you guess what happened?

Can you? Can you REALLY guess what happened?

I bet you can guess, and I tell you now I am not even in the slightest bit angry. I am laughing.

Engine is fine. Goes well enough. I didn’t put the radio on as I wanted to make sure I didn’t hear any noises. No unwarranted noises as far as I can tell.

All great. So good.

I go to listen to my phone on the old Bluetooth FM thing, but there’s no power to it. I check it’s plugged in and it is. But no power. Odd. But the socket is loose so, maybe it’s just fucked like the rest of the nail.

Occurs to me that, when I’m in traffic, I should pop my head out and listen for the starter motor. Except, the windows aren’t working. Odd. Both don’t work. Odder still. Is anything working? Hazards do, radio does, HVAC is working. But the central locking doesn’t work. Strange.

Maybe, let’s see if the cruise control works. Nope. Move it to the cruise and to the limiter, nothing is happening. The dashboard doesn’t even acknowledge I’ve selected either. Thought occurs to me now, possibly, they have used the wrong map for the EGR remap. So maybe that remap doesn’t include the cruise. I don’t know. Think by now it’s clear I don’t know fucking anything.

The clincher though, are the wipers. They don’t work again. Fucking WONDERFUL. But this time the back don’t work either, neither do the washer jets. Stalk also feels fairly loose. It didn’t before.

But I get home. It’s fairly uneventful you know considering what’s gone on before. Until I turn the engine off and I swear to Christ the fucking rear wiper comes on for one wipe.

Right says I, maybe the barrel is fucking this for me. I put the key in and go to turn it on and the whole thing starts up. The key is in the I position, the one before the engine ought to come on. Then the ABS light comes on, with the big red STOP light, saying braking system faulty. I try this a few times and basically the barrel is fucked at this point (or something is) and it will start on the first part of the key. I lock the car.

I go in to my loving wife who’s had a wonderful day, and she is of course ECSTATIC to hear of my newly haunted van. She then says “you’ve left the lights on”.

Fucking haven’t. Yes I have.

The lights were on. So I go and get my keys. Floodlight comes on (did I mention it’s dark out?) and the FUCKING WIPERS ARE ON AS WELL.

Confused to buggery I unlock the car and it all stops. I lock the car, no lights or wipers. All is quiet again.

So, potentially - issue with grounding either from the work or the barrel, or the fucking BSM shit thing has water in it. Credible, as the guy took great delight telling me he steam cleaned the engine.

[grogee]

From The Money Pit:

(Deepest sympathies, St Jude. Don't let it beat you!) 

[grogee]

Yeah, let's do that. 

LET'S DO EXACTLY THAT