The Wilted Leaf - 3K miles in... how is it doing? 29/11/2024

[320touring]

So where were we heading?

Out of Oban we headed west then south...

Bound for Colonsay!

 

Where? Well it's quite remote..

How remote?

The next land to the west of us is Canada or thereabouts..

We're over to see some friends for a couple of days, and may even grace the public charger with our presence 🤣

[320touring]

Went to the local Cafe for lunch today - behold!

I may pootle down to give it a try on the morrow. There is also a public charger at the ferry port I am tempted to try.

Besides that, we spent most of the time clumping up and down the south of the Island, exploring coves and bays. Absolutely brilliant!

 

Tomorrow should be entertaining, the boat is due to dump us back in Oban about 9.15pm, and we'll need a charge to get home I reckon.

Be interesting to see if we can find anywhere with a cuppa to pass the time whilst we top up 

[320touring]

We spent an inordinate amount of time either walking, talking or eating on this trip. It was a most convivial way to pass a weekend.

I was greeted by charging with a view on the Sunday morning

Handily our friends have an external socket so some free kWh were consumed.

We then went for the first walk of the day - through the Colonsay Estate and out towards Kiloran Bay.

My mate uttered the words "would you like to see the abandoned sawmill? , and I replied "yes"

I'd have happily lost a year trying to get this operational again. You can see just how vicious the sea salt is in the air - this is pretty much in the middle of the island, as far from the sea as possible.

I also spotted a most pleasing flower on the road back out to the main path.

Walk completed, and we were blessed with quite the view at the bay

All the fresh air made the group crave a warm beverage and a small rest, so we retired to the house for coffee and some snoists.

After about an hour's recuperation, my mate piped up "Do you want to see Pig's Paradise?"

Again we replied in the affirmative.

Pig's paradise is where the inhabitants used to raise pigs, and used the geology of the landscape to minimise the fencing cost in keeping them penned in.

Where you can see the sea in the middle of this picture, there's still approx 300ft of drop to the ocean.

Fencing across the gap gets you a pen with rock on 3 sides, and only one fence needed.

Pretty much everywhere you looked was stunning!

Here you can see sheep grazing on an outcrop I don't even want to contemplate trying to access...

Absolutely perfect - ideal for a geography buff (like me)

Lastly, I decided to face my fears - I don't like heights (to the extent that cleaning the gutters on our 1.5 story cottage gives me the heebies)

There's a 400ft drop right behind me, and I'm about 2ft from the edge.

 

Close enough for me.

[320touring]

How did it do then?

Range:

When fully charged, the battery holds about 31/32 kWh with about 28 useable.At 4 miles/kWh that is 112 miles.  I've run it out once, but generally try to recharge around the 90 mile mark.

Mine to Oban to get the boat is about 103 miles. Though technically doable, there was no way I was going to risk running out of juice and missing the boat - as we've been trying to get to see these friends at their home for almost 5years!

On the way there, we split the run after 64 miles. We arrived at 58 %  having used 11.3kwh.

We took a couple of hours to get breakfast and have a wander round some shops. All this time the car was slow charging - handily I had some charging credit to burn through.

We then schlepped onto Oban, arriving on 77% after a further 39 miles having used 6.8kWh.

So 103 miles on 18.1kwh is pretty damn good going (5.5m/kWh or so), and points to the journey being doable without a charge.

Excellent! 

However, it was pretty much perfect weather (14degrees), dry and the traffic was pretty light.

It'll be interesting to see how inclement weather, and pushing much deeper into the battery affects range. I already know the car reports a significantly lower state of charge than Leafspy when you get into the bottom half.

I really should do a range test or two...

 

The journey home was relatively similar in consumption, but slightly higher due to the heater and lights use because it was in the evening.

[320touring]

Charging:

I probably do about 90% of the charging at the house - it's cheap/convenient and always available.

Previous expeditions I have used the AC 22kw chargers - they charge at about 6kw per hour on the leaf - about 2.5-3x faster than charging at the house.

Usually I use them as I'm charging at a location I want to spend some time at - plus the AC charging is not as harsh on the battery apparently.

I used a 22kw charger in Inverary 

We were there a couple of hours and easily got from 58% to 100% before heading to Oban.

On the island, and it was  3 pin plug as shown a couple of posts above.

The trip back was a different scenario....

The Boat gets into Oban at 9.15pm. it's dark, nowhere is open and the car was at 99%.

I'd spent some time on the boat looking at apps to determine the best option for a quick top-up on the way home..

On the leaf the DC rapid charging is done using a Chademo lead. This is different from the now industry standard CCS plug, and pickings can be a bit slim. Quite often there will only be one connector even though there may be 5/6/8 CCS connectors.

This is further complicated by the fact that reports on the condition of chargers can vary between apps depending on how good users are at updating.

The above map shows what was available. The pink markers show Chademo plugs - I was aiming for either Inverary or Crianlarich (with Luss at the bottom right as a backup).

 

The initial decision was to head for Inverary, but as we took the turn for the a819, we noticed there were diversion signs up.

The reason for this was a closure on the a83

This is a bit of road extremely prone to landslips - when they occur they use an old single track military road as a diversion. This is delivered using a convoy system but does not operate overnight.

Going to Inverary would therefore only cost us time and additional mileage. And means getting home later.

Therefore, Crianlarich was the choice.

As you can see, it's not quite as salubrious as Inverary - railway bridge, a block of public toilets and an Audi A5 convertible lying with a door open and no one in it...

Nevermind the TripAdvisor review, how did it do?

Thankfully the charger fired up no problem and was happy to connect to the charge. We managed to get about 8kwh into it in 30 mins. Not the fastest but we were charging from 65% to 85% - so not in the super rapid (up to 50kw🤣) part of the cars charge curve.

The Leaf is not quick to charge by modern standards, but the Chademo saved us about 40 mins vs using the 22kw AC charger .

I also checked in on the battery temp after the rapid charging 

Oh aye, that's roasted🤣

 

In conclusion, I know @davehedgehog31 and @sdkrc have both had shitty experiences with public charging in Scotland - with flaky chargers, apps with incorrect details (e.g. this Crianlarich charger has been given the postcode of a street about 100m away, so we had to hunt for it) and all manner of card/RFID/contactless issues.

I think the public network is still pretty weak - both the first gen chargers being at the end of their service life and the status information and location information are very poor. I'd learned from others experiences so spent a fair amount of time having to plan 3/4 variations to ensure I had access to sufficient charging to get home comfortably.

I certainly wouldn't approach this journey the way I would if I were in an ICE car - just going for it without an idea where you can refuel.

[loserone]

I sometimes ponder what it would be like setting off on a Sunday night with the petrol light on.  From mine I could only go east to guarantee fuel, so if coming north it would add two hours.  How many 24 garages are there around Oban? Slim pickings I'd guess

[320touring]

14 minutes ago, loserone said:

I sometimes ponder what it would be like setting off on a Sunday night with the petrol light on.  From mine I could only go east to guarantee fuel, so if coming north it would add two hours.  How many 24 garages are there around Oban? Slim pickings I'd guess

One 24hr one 6 mins drive from the ferry port

[loserone]

52 minutes ago, 320touring said:

One 24hr one 6 mins drive from the ferry port

I mean it's basically Manchester isn't it 😂

[320touring]

11 minutes ago, loserone said:

I mean it's basically Manchester isn't it 😂

Certainly has similarities 🤣

[320touring]

Up at 6.15 this morning for an airport hire...

It's now on the secure parking at Edinburgh whilst we pop to Copenhagen for a few days...

Quite impressed with the economy in the colder temps and mainly doing motorway work (low 50s mph).

 

[BorniteIdentity]

You do very well on the ‘gas mileage’ - I never bettered 3.5 in mine, albeit it was the 62kw motor. I don’t have a particularly heavy foot either. 

Keep this thread burning, it’s really genuinely interesting to see so many EV myths being busted in one single place. 

[Dave_Q]

6 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

You do very well on the ‘gas mileage’ - I never bettered 3.5 in mine, albeit it was the 62kw motor. I don’t have a particularly heavy foot either. 

Keep this thread burning, it’s really genuinely interesting to see so many EV myths being busted in one single place. 

I was thinking of asking actually, 320t I know you are into your hypermiling and trying to get the best economy from your ICE cars, are there similar techniques you are using on this? Maintain momentum and brake gently trying to keep it in regen rather than friction?

The best I seem to get from the Zoe is 4.1-4.2 mpkwh but this drops to 3.5-3.8 if used at/above 60mph for any length of time.

[320touring]

21 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

You do very well on the ‘gas mileage’ - I never bettered 3.5 in mine, albeit it was the 62kw motor. I don’t have a particularly heavy foot either. 

Keep this thread burning, it’s really genuinely interesting to see so many EV myths being busted in one single place. 

Thanks, It's not really "myth busting". Just recording my personal experiences, with a high mileage, short range car..

I'd been considering one for a while, and @Kiltox presented the opportunity, so I took it.

We've now had it just over 3 months and done about 2200miles.  It seems to meet the needs of about 85% of our journeys with no issues, and could do the other 15% with some planning.

Observations so far:

Pros

It's GREAT having car that just works when you press the on button.

It's a practical size and ideal for moving our parents about.

Nice large boot with good access.

Controls simple and easy to use - and you can switch off lane assist etc permanently.

It's objectify identifiable as a modern car - everyone who has tried it says it just feels like a normal car. This is great for people not used to them.

Service parts like brakes and tyres seem cheap (based on having a look, it's not needed anything yet).

Bluetooth connection for the phone is useful for easy choonage.

The ability to do other things whilst it is fuelling up (it's a passive activity so you don't need to be at the car the whole time).

The torque is great. It surprised a fair few folk when hillclimbing.

Cheap to run.

 

Cons:

Cost of entry to electric car ownership. This is the most expensive car I have ever bought, and I'm lucky enough to be in the position to afford it outright. They are cheap to run but expensive to start with. Certainly, you could get a fairly economic diesel for significantly less.

Forward visibility at the A posts is atrocious.

The centre console is huge for no reason (may be a leftover of being backed on an ICE floorpan?).

Using it takes forward planning - I e. You have to remember to charge it before using it.  Even using a rapid CHADEMO charger adds 30mins to a trip - you can't just nip to the local garage and pop £20 in and be on your way.

Public chargers can be variable. Not a car issue but one that crops up

Longer journey times are increased both because of charging stop times (no pee and grab a takeaway coffee). I've yet to try major distance but think I can offset this by planning.

This particular car has some battery degredation, so it's not got the best range. Though to be clear it's ideal for what we need it for.

 

That's the thoughts so far 😁

[BorniteIdentity]

I would agree on visibility. I would nearly always prefer driving something else, despite having a brand new car parked outside. 

I think you are busting myths, especially if you go paddling in the shallow end of X/Twitter. They make out an 6 year old EV is like a 25 year old laptop. 

 

[320touring]

19 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

I was thinking of asking actually, 320t I know you are into your hypermiling and trying to get the best economy from your ICE cars, are there similar techniques you are using on this? Maintain momentum and brake gently trying to keep it in regen rather than friction?

The best I seem to get from the Zoe is 4.1-4.2 mpkwh but this drops to 3.5-3.8 if used at/above 60mph for any length of time.

Good question..

Basics of what I do:

Have the instant economy gauge on the dash at all times 😁

I mainly use the D mode - with B mode (additional regen) occasionally selected for additional regen braking.

Round town I use cruise where possible at 30mph GPS, then cancel it when approaching lights/roundabouts etc. this means the car uses regen to slow, so #freevoltz

Hills in town I come off cruise and try to hold it at 2miles/kWh when climbing.

On A/B roads I usually sit about 45/50mph GPS  (that seems to be about the flow of traffic speed on the roads around us). Again, I use cruise and switch it off for regen braking for corners (using the footbrake if needed!)

Motorway work is where I have the least influence - it's just steady state work with limited regen opportunities. I'm usually sitting about 53-56mph GPS  on cruise dependent on traffic.

The battery In The leaf is not a big fan of sustained high speed* (above 60mph). The lack of active cooling and my battery being tired really hold it back. I think the Zoe is better in this regard.

I find it easy to drive more sedately than the XJR or the Clio 182 as it is totally lacking in any engagement 🤣

[Lord Sterling]

Interesting to read about the Nissan Leaf.

Funniest thing is the first time I probably notice one of these was in Kuwait way back in '14.

On 23/09/2024 at 21:19, 320touring said:

Only thing is; it really needs proper Nissan Leaf spec wheel trims. The black steelie look might suit a late 80s Vauxhall (for that "CID" look) but it just let's the overall look of the Leaf down.

[320touring]

31 minutes ago, Lord Sterling said:

Interesting to read about the Nissan Leaf.

Funniest thing is the first time I probably notice one of these was in Kuwait way back in '14.

Only thing is; it really needs proper Nissan Leaf spec wheel trims. The black steelie look might suit a late 80s Vauxhall (for that "CID" look) but it just let's the overall look of the Leaf down.

Nope. Steelies or GTFO.

Not even got mats in it, you'd be so disappointed In me🤣

[320touring]

Decided to use the charger at the local station as I was going into town. 

Just had experience of the dream team of public charging. BP pulse and Chargeplace Scotland...

Took ages to get it to approve and connect to the car, and now have £70 being held on my card as 2x £35 transactions.  Hopefully it gets repaid like the £99 that Asda pre authorised at the pump.

Total I used was £5.74

BP pulse not on Electroverse so had to use the chargeplace Scotland app/card to get it to work. Have had no issues public charging with other chargeplace Scotland points.

Not seamless but at least the car is charged 

[somewhatfoolish]

Public EVSE is a fucking shambles, all the vendors need put up against the wall and if a random EV user cannot get their chargers to work they get a corporate wedgie.

[320touring]

Indeed, it's a sub-optimal situation!

I know @davehedgehog31 and @sdkrc have both had epically enjoyable* experiences publicly charging previously, but this was my first one. Maybe I was just lucky with the setups I picked..

 

@Kiltox has pretty good insight on how the cluster fuck re the BP pulse charger I was using came about.. 

[320touring]

After an early morning phone session, I have deduced that

Essentially Chargeplace Scotland have put 2x £35 pre authorised on my card, AND taken the £5.74 I actually spent. This includes a charge that did not start.

Monzo says the pre auths won't be released until Sat 26th. So effectively, £70 won't be available to me for over a week, which is a bit of a piss take. I've put a complaint in about that, see if it can get released earlier.

Chargeplace Scotland say that as I used the RFID card it shouldn't have taken pre authorised?! I've asked for that to be looked into.

 

To contrast, I've seen me use the Electroverse card on osprey rapids and the £45 pre authorised come off, me charge then the unused amount returned within 1/2 hr.

 

As an additional hoot - just how shite is the Chargeplace Scotland app?

It won't stop showing the charging session, despite it being almost a day since I charged..

 

[beko1987]

That's very piss poor. Even the asda £99 (or whatever you have in your account) hold is gone by the time I've put the fuel cap back on and got back in the car with Monzo. 

2nd throwaway bank account to charge with and have it look after the holds? 

[loserone]

Ooh, I've just had the same issue!

 

 

[rainagain]

My other half was left without £120 for a week after three failed attempts to fast charge her leaf. She called them and they acted like holding onto her money for a week wasn't a big deal and she shouldn't be complaining about it. Others have had similar problems:

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/chargeplacescotland.org

We came close to running out of electricity over the weekend after a trip up to Faskally. According to the app there were plenty of chargers free in Pitlochly, however we found thanks to the Enchanted Forest being on, the car park where the chargers were was really busy and only two of the charging bays were actually being used with the rest 'ghost' charging to grab a space. We headed to Perth using the app to find a fast charger that wasn't being used, however some twat had parked there and hadn't even bothered to connect up their charger to pretend to charge. We found a charger in the nearby train station and hooked up, after half an hour we realised this was going to take an age to charge. Eventually we found a chademo charger in carpark next to some shows. Despite the best attempts of the local wildlife to smash the screen in, it worked fine and a 15 minute charge gave us enough juice to get home. Having hungry and tired kids in the car who like us just wanted to get home made the whole thing quite stressful.

I still have no idea why you have to have stupid cards for charge Scotland or eletroverse, why can't the chargers just had a card reader like most petrol pumps do. I also think rather than relying on a car being connected, the chargers should have some sort of sensor so they can tell if something is parked there even if it's not using the charger. Also people who ghost charge can GTF.

[loserone]

I could post this on my own thread but it's on topic here.  As a result of piss poor planning we did ~200 miles on Saturday and needed to top up whilst we were out as we set off with about 55%

Ended up grabbing lunch out which with three kids, one of whom is diagnosed ASD / ADHD combined presentation and was jumping between a new swimming teacher and a science show in a town he'd never been to before, so hit up M&S food for some stuff to make sandwiches with and fill em with smoked fish.  There were four rapids in the car park so I pulled in, flashed my phone as a contactless card and plugged in.  After a couple of minutes I gave up waiting for it to start and cancelled and tried again.  This time the charger came up to say the cable was damaged.  In the meantime I had two £15 pre auths.

 

Hopped over to another one which worked perfectly and charged nicely at 48kw. Worked out at about 18p a mile which is broadly equivalent to a diesel car these days and got what was left of my third preauth back within seconds.

 

Came back out of the shop to see the three chargers that I wasn't at all ICEd.  

Glad I can use CCS cause fuck knows where a Chademo would have been. I pinged Monzo about the two other preauths and got the money back in the account within a couple of hours.

 

 

Drove on to the venue and found at least 40 empty fast charging bays in the car park, which don't show on any maps I could see.  Would have been loads cheaper. 

In summary: lots of choice, yes it's a pain when a charger doesn't work, but fuck me am I glad I don't drive a leaf.

[hairnet]

@320touring

isle of arran - whats worth looking at ?? 

ta

can ya get oan it closer than ardrossan

[320touring]

Never been sorry!

[2flags]

It does seem that EV's are great for local journeys, however, I would need the security of being able to refuel easily and quickly when on a longer trip. 

[320touring]

27 minutes ago, 2flags said:

It does seem that EV's are great for local journeys, however, I would need the security of being able to refuel easily and quickly when on a longer trip. 

You can refuel ok - this is the first issue I've had (and was local🤣)

It looks like the payment company for Chargeplace Scotland are fucking useless though.

Ordinarily it should be back in the account as soon as the payment gets taken. But not this lot. 

[somewhatfoolish]

7 hours ago, hairnet said:

@320touring

isle of arran - whats worth looking at ?? 

ta

can ya get oan it closer than ardrossan

Isle of Arran brewery

Either or both of the distilleries

Crazy golf in Brodick