Ex Lesbian & Ex Nan Corsa Life - Tyred 17/09

[Nyphur]

Collected the raffle win Corsa this weekend. Ex @BorniteIdentity lesbionic neighbour and latterly ex @flat4alfa.

Jetted back into the UK Friday afternoon and got a lift over to collect it Saturday lunchtime. An easy enough journey there and a pleasant chat with @flat4alfa and I was away with a pie in the boot. The M25 heading South was looking abysmal so we went cross country through Buckinghamshire to Oxford and then back home to Berks.

Its a car that looks almost immaculate at first glance, and second glance. Then you look a little harder and there is a dent here, a dent there, a scuff here, a crease across the bootlid (probably from being opened in a low multi-storey as the hatch opens really high), a gouge in the drivers door, etc etc. It has the aura of a car that has spent a lot of its life in public car parks getting minor whacks here and there from inconsiderate throbbers. Considering its 14 odd years old its still really tidy though, and only VERY minor lacquer peel in a couple of small patches which is all the more surprising being a red Vauxhall. It has held up really well. Overall verdict - nice one bruvva.

Interior is presentable and has all the features one could reasonably require. The raffle advert had warned of a grumbling wheel bearing but I didn't detect it on the trip home - though it was hot as balls so I had the windows down all the way. Nan had also warned of a timing chain rattle when warm which was more easily detectable. Sitting at traffic lights it sounded like you were parked next to a diesel, except if you blipped the throttle to over ~1500rpm the diesel clatter went away. It sounds like a digger for the first 5 seconds when you start it from cold too so timing chain/tensioner/etc etc does sound like a spot on diagnosis from @flat4alfa. Verdict - as described! 

I parked it up at my parents (where most of my tools are, and space to work) Saturday, and was able to get over and start having a look at it today. I found a pretty decent youtube vid for the timing chain replacement so set about following that while I wait for the Haynes to arrive.

Seen here on axle stands with oil and coolant drained, air intake and filter housing etc removed. Removing a breather hose I found it was absolutely jammed with mayo. Not exactly unheard of on these little shopping cars, and the coolant and oil was fine so no doubt just condensation from being used as a local runaround. I gave it all a decent clean out.

Progressed to removing the coil pack, which was stuck like a motherfucker. The vid I was watching had a handy tip - the recess in the coil pack which the bolts holding it down pass through is threaded larger than the bolts themselves - so you can thread in larger bolts and use them as a handle to work the coil pack free rather than prying on it with a bar/screwdriver and potentially damaging it. As seen below.

 

This still didn't give me enough purchase to get the coil pack out and after 10 mins of wrestling the bolt heads were beginning to cut into my palms so a couple of holes were drilled in a scrap lawnmower blade for the bolts to pass through to give a decent handle to pull on. It freed up on the second pull 👍

A few more electrical connectors and the oil pressure sensor were removed and then the cam cover could come off. It had liberal use of sealant deployed and had to be persuaded off with a mallet. The thermostat and associated coolant pipes were removed too.

Its now to the point that I can't really go any further without the locking tools. I ordered a set today which should arrive by the weekend.

Hopefully then I can get it to the point where I can poke at the tensioner enough to convince myself that that is the problem and order whatever kit I need the same day. There is a TINY bit of movement in the chain currently if I prod it, but there isn't really anywhere accessible to jab it at the moment where I would expect it to move much anyway.

Chucked all the bits in the boot and went to the pub. Verdict - its going suspiciously well so far.

[flat4alfa]

Sorry about the mayo.  Cap was always clean, didn't think to investigate further

The bits in the boot should sleep well in there.  I'm intrigued as to where you found a wheel trim in the engine bay.

[Split_Pin]

Those are always terrible for condensation and producing lots of mayo. Your rocker cover doesn't look to have ladlefuls of it underneath so it's not too bad.

A word of advice, some Permatex would be useful to use as an additional gasket sealer around the timing case when reassembling.

[SiC]

7 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

Sorry about the mayo.  Cap was always clean, didn't think to investigate further

That's standard for these engines, even more so on short journeys. My mother in law's Corsa C 1.2 only did short journeys and it took a good run with an oil change to properly get rid of most of it. 

[beko1987]

The ex's 1.2 and 1.6 Vauxhalls all had slight mayo due to cool short trips. I cleared it a few times by ragging it 50 miles to work and back for a few days in a row but it always came back somewhere. The 1.8 in the zafira didn't do it but it always ran hotter than the others. 

Never seemed to hurt them and they got an oil change regularly anyway. 

[Nyphur]

9 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

Sorry about the mayo.  Cap was always clean, didn't think to investigate further

The bits in the boot should sleep well in there.  I'm intrigued as to where you found a wheel trim in the engine bay.

Yeah my Skoda Octavia used to do it too, I was forever cleaning it away. Does seem like a really common thing on these cars so I wasn't surprised or upset 😂

[djoptix]

11 hours ago, Nyphur said:

nice one bruvva

[Nyphur]

Locking tools and haynes arrived today so I went and had half hour looking at the car again.

Whipped the wheel and arch liner off, and rotated the crank to line the timing notch cut into the pulley with the timing mark on the block. Removed the "plug" for the crank locking tool and slipped it in..... hmmmm, it'll only go half way in.

Look at the cams with it in this position and the notches for the cam locking tool to slip into are vertical, not horizontal as they should be. I rotated the crank through a few full rotations until I'd satisfied myself that there was only one position where the crank locking tool would fit fully in, and the notches in the cams were vaguely horizontal. A little wiggle either way on the crank pulley and the crank tool would stop the engine rotating, so I think this is correct.

The thing that's a bit strange is that in this position the timing marks are 180° out. The mark on the pulley in red, the mark on the block in green.

Not too strange right? Someone has been in before and taken the pulley off and put it back on half a rotation out of the right orientation.

But then there's a yellow paint mark someone has made on the crank which lines up OK. So its probably been off twice - once put back half a rotation out, then again with a paint mark made and put back on "correctly"? Only thing I can think of.

With the engine in this position the cam locking tool will fit into one of the cams, but not the other. If you rock the crank slightly through the tiny amount of rotation it can make with the locking tool in place then you can fit the tool in the other cam, but never both at the same time.

Its SO close that I don't think it has skipped a tooth - probably just the slack in the chain making it very slightly out of whack?

Just typing this up now I realised I should have got spanner on the opposite end of the cam and rocked it slightly and seen if that would take up the slack in the chain and allowed the tool to fit correctly. I'll try that next time and if not I'll follow the process for adjusting the timing.

Either way I had to abandon play as the next thing I needed to do (if I don't need to reset the timing) was slacken the bolts on the waterpump pulley and I don't have a torx spanner that will fit in the gap between the pulley and the engine mount - one on order should arrive tomorrow.

As ever comments, observations and insults are welcome. Anything anyone can see I've overlooked or got wrong in my assumptions?

Thanks

[EyesWeldedShut]

My dwindling grey cells are remembering that there's no woodruff key (or the like) on these pulleys - just the six torx heads so you can rebolt it any which way (maybe including back to front?) without killing anything?

[Nyphur]

Yeah I don't think there is.

It makes sense to me that someone took it off and just chucked it back on 180 degrees out.

Just seems odd that there's then a paint mark which is aligned correctly independent of the incorrectly aligned manufacturers marks.

Must have been on and off a few times I guess.

[Split_Pin]

When I built up the replacement X10XE for my old Corsa I just boshed that aux pulley straight on.

If you ever need any replacement male torx screws I have loads from my old Corsa engine. They're no use to me as the Cav is non Ecotec and uses regular bolts.

[sierraman]

Are the sprockets on the cam floating? If so just slacken the bolts, adjust the cam so it fits then nip the pulley bolts back up once the chain is on?

[Nyphur]

8 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Are the sprockets on the cam floating? If so just slacken the bolts, adjust the cam so it fits then nip the pulley bolts back up once the chain is on?

Yes this was my intention

[SiC]

That cam timing reminds me of my 172 before I replaced the belt. Except that was much further out. If the chain is stretched then plausible that's it has gone out of time slightly?

[SiC]

Also the cams might have a certain amount of torsional twist and it goes out slightly when removed. 

[Nyphur]

58 minutes ago, SiC said:

If the chain is stretched then plausible that's it has gone out of time slightly?

Hi Si. 

Yes I think you're correct, that's what I was trying to get at below. 

18 hours ago, Nyphur said:

Its SO close that I don't think it has skipped a tooth - probably just the slack in the chain making it very slightly out of whack?

Just typing this up now I realised I should have got spanner on the opposite end of the cam and rocked it slightly and seen if that would take up the slack in the chain and allowed the tool to fit correctly. 

I'll see if a spanner on the cam shaft is enough to take the slack out and get the locking tool to fit. If not then I can just adjust it slightly.

Thanks

[RoverFolkUs]

VAG engines have a locating notch on those auxiliary crank pulleys to stop that from happening, but Vauxhall evidently decided against such a sensible idea. 

If the pulleys are free floating then you are usually supposed to leave them slack until the new chain is fitted and tensioned. New pulleys usually come in the kit, but it depends. It is almost always impossible to refit the new chain with the pulleys still done up with the locking tools in place, if they are the type which are supposed to be undone as sierraman said. 

This allows for the "half a tooth" inaccuracy to be taken out, otherwise you'll find it nearly impossible to get the new chain on and be timed up correctly. 

Have you removed number 1 spark plug to confirm it's definitely at TDC if there's any doubt with the position of the locking tool?

(Don't always take this as gospel, especially if technical data states otherwise as some engines are timed up with all pistons at half stroke)

[RoverFolkUs]

If you haven't already done so, it's also helpful to remove all the spark plugs so you aren't fighting against compression when trying to turn the engine over by a gnat's cock at a time. Don't curse me if something drops into the cylinder though 😄

[RoverFolkUs]

If the Haynes manual is telling you lies I can try and find the procedure from Autodata if you like? Would just need reg and possibly engine code

[Nyphur]

I've not checked the piston is at TDC by inserting anything actually. I will, to double check.

The Haynes did suggest "you can confirm cyl1 is at TDC as the cams for that cylinder will be pointing out away from the engine", which they were.

The pulley's are free floating and yes the guide says for then to be left loose (after replacing) until the new chain is in place. 

I am probably just trying to be too cautious. I can just loosen them slightly now to get the cam locking tool to fit nice either way if taking up the slack in the chain doesn't do it anyway.

[SiC]

I don't know the procedure on these but on the free floating 172 I did (and I believe similar to other with fully floating pulleys), you set lock everything up with the pulleys loose. Then everything tightened up locks it in square. Only catch is (on the Clio at least) that you're supposed to remove the locking tools when tightening which risks stuff moving to prevent damage to the parts+locking tools. 

Advantage of fully floating pulleys is that once set, it should be bang on rather than possibly being half a tooth or so out. 

 

Make sure you give it a good turn over by hand once done and that everything lines back up again. 

[Lacquer Peel]

Why does the sexuality of a previous keeper matter?

[BorniteIdentity]

10 hours ago, Lacquer Peel said:

Why does the sexuality of a previous keeper matter?

Because it formed part of the advert when I sold the car a few months ago.

She’s absolutely fine with being a lesbian, doesn’t mind being called one and is totally relaxed and comfortable with her own sexuality. 

Don’t worry. 
 

 

 

[Nyphur]

Another hour or so on the red baron today. Its quite nice to be able to work on something at my own pace and stopping/starting when I feel like it for once, rather than needing to get the job done so I can keep mobile.

Loosened the  bolts on the water pump and crank pulleys. Got the aux belt tensioner off and the aux belt (can't come fully off until the engine mount is off - seems insane.....). Got the alternator off too, it sits pretty nicely on the drive shaft without needing to be fully removed.

Tried the timing tools again and with a little wiggle on the end of the camshaft the tool slotted straight in. Chain has noticeable slack in it now that the crank/cam are locked where they should be.

Next job was to unbolt the exhaust downpipe from the manifold/cat. 2 of the bolts came out pretty easy, the third...... didn't.

Irwin bolt grips to the rescue again. Don't think they have ever failed me.

I cracked all the bolts on the engine mount then nipped them back up. Next step is to jack the engine up slightly and remove the engine mount. I'm going to be really lucky to get any time on the car during the week, and then I'm away for the following week so I don't really want to leave the engine sat on a jack for 2 weeks, so opted to leave it there for today.

 

I now need to order the timing chain kit. Chat on the Corsa forum is "make sure you buy a good one because the rubbish ones will start rattling again within 10k" but no mention of what is a good or bad kit.

They seem to vary in price from £60 odd to £250. Does anyone have any recommendations - @RoverFolkUs or @twosmoke300 perhaps? I'd rather keep it at the lower end of the scale but ~£100 is OK I think. I don't really understand the difference between all the kits really, presumably just component quality.

A few I had been looking at ..

https://www.leadercomponents.com/product/lsc-tc0238fk-90529570-55562234-timing-chain-kit-by-bga-new/

https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/fai-timing-chain-kit-352720560

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/mapco/13836209

I also need to consider whether I am going to change the water pump or not. I think I'll have a look at it when I take it off and decide. Oh and @Split_Pin which Permatex goop do I need? They seem to do a few potions which sound pretty similar.

Thanks

[RoverFolkUs]

3 minutes ago, Nyphur said:

They seem to vary in price from £60 odd to £250. Does anyone have any recommendations - @RoverFolkUs or @twosmoke300 perhaps? I'd rather keep it at the lower end of the scale but ~£100 is OK I think. I don't really understand the difference between all the kits really, presumably just component quality.

A few I had been looking at ..

https://www.leadercomponents.com/product/lsc-tc0238fk-90529570-55562234-timing-chain-kit-by-bga-new/

https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/fai-timing-chain-kit-352720560

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/mapco/13836209

I've always had good success with FAI and Dayco timing chain kits, so I'd happily fit either. 

£250 sounds extortionate for one of these engines to be honest, £80-120 ish sounds more like it without looking too far into it. 

The biggest risk with cheap timing chain kits is the plastic guides being of poor quality and breaking. I did a Peugeot bipper 1.3 CDTI last year which someone had fitted a cheap kit to 6 months prior, and the guides had broken, not sure of the brand unfortunately. I think it was a Dayco kit that I fitted and its been fine since. 

[Nyphur]

50 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

I've always had good success with FAI and Dayco timing chain kits, so I'd happily fit either. 

The FAI kit for my engine # is £60 currently on ECP so I'm happy with that. Thank you

[Split_Pin]

@Nyphur

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165503621096?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Y74fR1XXSpW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=ZRO7rX7WRjq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[RoverFolkUs]

1 hour ago, Nyphur said:

The FAI kit for my engine # is £60 currently on ECP so I'm happy with that. Thank you

No worries, all I'd say is make sure the kit is as comprehensive as possible so that you are reusing as few parts as you can help. Goes without saying it's one of those jobs you only want to do once and for all!

[Nyphur]

5 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

No worries, all I'd say is make sure the kit is as comprehensive as possible so that you are reusing as few parts as you can help. Goes without saying it's one of those jobs you only want to do once and for all!

Yeah I got the one which comes with everything. There were cheaper options for a few quid less without the gears or stretch bolts etc but not worth the hassle.

Got all the gaskets etc on order from AutoDoc (who I hate using but they were way cheaper than ECP for everything except the timing chain kit where they were actually nearly 2x the price).

[SiC]

7 hours ago, Nyphur said:

also need to consider whether I am going to change the water pump or not

While you are there...

If you're changing the aux belt then I'd do the pump due to the extra tension from a new belt on an old pump. Sods law says it'll knacker it soon after putting it on.