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Electric cars


FredTransit

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I see they are gonna be made here. I think I will pass on that! They will still take 7 hours to charge, and only go for 70 miles. WTF? They will have to improve a hell of a lot before to me they are of any interest, I don't care how cheap they are to run. How many times have you gone out and ended up going further cos plans have changed? It's OK if you can pull into a petrol station and top up, but you are not gonna spend hours doing it. Whatever happened to Hydrogen? That looked realistic to me, if you are really buying the environmental ticket.

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This is a good thing. Electric cars are limited at the moment, but the more we make, the quicker the R&D moves on. Green issues aren't important (I doubt a car can ever be 'green') but they could keep us motoring when oil becomes prohibitively expensive.

 

While batteries have improved a lot, what they really need is a standardised rapid charging method. As soon as you can 80%+ charge a car in 10-15 minutes at a service station, then they start to look a bit more practical. We'll get there, but on the way there'll be a lot of crappy superminis with "ecotricity" and pictures of leaves on the doors.

 

As for hydrogen, I believe it's fallen out of favour because it's so energy intensive to produce.

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The re-fueling infrastructure needed to make hydrogen powered cars a commercial reality is going to be hugely expensive. Providing recharging electric points is considerably cheaper, but "refueling" is going to take at least 4 hours. Until the battery recharging time problem is solved, electric cars will just be an urban play thing for those who can afford such affectations.

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We already have petrol stations though, so why couldn't the hydrogen be sold through petrol stations? The electric charging points have to be offered too, and I can't see how they would ever be commercial if a car is going to be there for about 4 hours. I can't see there ever being commercial charging stations if it takes that long, so if the electric cars ever became common, petrol stations would miss out, cos they would have to be charged at home or on street when parked (like on a parking meter). Like colc said, they won't be viable until the charging speed is reduced by a lot.

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It's a moot point about their "green" credentials anyway. They will most likely be charged up overnight, so most of the power will come from coal-fired powerstations - y'know, those that give off the most CO2 for a given amount of energy - which have an efficiency of approximately 40%, give or take 8%, so not much more efficient than a petrol or diesel engine.

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Hydrogen isn't that easy to get hold of though, so it's not exactly the ideal replacement. Oil is still cheap really, for the bang you get.I like the idea of electric cars actually. Modern cars are so hideously bland to drive that they may as well have electric motors. A 70 mile range wouldn't be an issue for me - I only drive 50 a day.

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It's a nice idea. I like how the climate change nutjob's have jumped on the electric car bandwagon. They still consume energy which has to come from somewhere that burns stuff.I'd happily drive round in a G-Whiz, they're grotesque, but good for nipping around I'd imagine.

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I'd happily drive round in a G-Whiz, they're grotesque, but good for nipping around I'd imagine.

Have you ever sat in one? I had a lift to the station about 1/2 mile away a couple of years ago. Horribly cramped. Never again.A 70 mile range is no problem for someone who just commutes into a city from the suburbs each day (and no doubt has a proper car for longer haul work)Not too far from me is a driveway which is home to a G-Whizz and a NSU Ro80 8)
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Electric cars are a great idea, no more pollution! I could get one, plug it in, then erm..... some coal would burn at Ferrybridge power station.....

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It's a moot point about their "green" credentials anyway. They will most likely be charged up overnight, so most of the power will come from coal-fired powerstations - y'know, those that give off the most CO2 for a given amount of energy - which have an efficiency of approximately 40%, give or take 8%, so not much more efficient than a petrol or diesel engine.

That's my biggest argument against them, unless they are topped up with solar energy it's just an exercise in displacing pollution. Nothing out of the car, but loads out of the power station!

The name escapes me right now, but someone recently previewed an electric car with swappable batteries. The idea being that the petrol station would keep a stock of charged batteries, and you'd just roll in and swap them.Again, the batteries would need standardising for that to work, but it's an idea.

I like that idea, but it's dependant on the manufacturers using the same batteries like you said.
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That's my biggest argument against them, unless they are topped up with solar energy it's just an exercise in displacing pollution. Nothing out of the car, but loads out of the power station!

This is true, but it's easier to reduce the emissions from one power station than a million individual little oil burners.Besides, the biggest benefit of zero tailpipe emissions is in congestion. Imagine a city street packed with stationary traffic, except with no noise and no fumes. That'd make cities - and being stuck in jams - much more tolerable.
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My employer is always waving the green flag, carbon neutral by 2012, recycling last weeks bog roll into next weeks lasagne for the staff canteen etc etc so they fitted an electric vehicle charging point in the visitors car park last October, what happened? bugger all untill last month when a really quite nice chap who works in Accounts bought a G Wiz, First off he was told he couldn't use the charging point as he was an employee not a visitor, after a lot of meetings dialogue and general arsing about it was decided that the only electric vehicle in a 20 mile radius COULD use the charging point, amazing! This guy travels aprox 24 miles into work, which apparently on a cold rainy day when wipers demisters are needed equates to almost a full battery charge so assuming there isn't a 10 mile tailback on the A6 and he makes it in on the last bit of ooomph from his battery and finds the charging point is bust what does he do? apparently it can charge from the mains but it would need a hell of an extension lead, and if there was a power cut or anything like that he's stranded,The real clincher for me was when he said it only costs 50p a day to charge it up (presumably because work don't charge him anything so he's only got the electricity at home to fund) but that batteries for this thing last about 2 to 3 years max and cost two grand to replace, assuming they last 2 years thats about £20 a week isn't it, just about what I spend on petrol to travel the same distance.

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One of the main problems about electric cars is what happens if they do catch on? We're already being told that the country's dilapidated electricity generating network is almost at full capacity now, so what happens if 5 million G-Wizzes get plugged in every night?

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New problems will arise !Just imagine the sheer amount of electricity needed to power a small town full of cars.For one .. Powerstations will have to adapt to cope with the extra demand.As already mentioned .. Wind Up Cars !Wind up a big coiled spring, turn on the dynamo for the rear wheels, kick out the spring and WHOOOOSH !, then the Dynamo's kick in and power an electrical motor. Add some kinetic / heat kind of storage device which turns braking power into electric and you are sorted.I prefer big old fashioned combustion engines - sorry -

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We already have petrol stations though, so why couldn't the hydrogen be sold through petrol stations? The electric charging points have to be offered too, and I can't see how they would ever be commercial if a car is going to be there for about 4 hours. I can't see there ever being commercial charging stations if it takes that long, so if the electric cars ever became common, petrol stations would miss out, cos they would have to be charged at home or on street when parked (like on a parking meter). Like colc said, they won't be viable until the charging speed is reduced by a lot.

The problem with selling hydrogen at petrol stations is that the tankers delivering it would float away like the Hindenburg! :wink:
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Various manufacturers have been trying to develop electric cars for decades, and it always comes down to performance and range. On big Jezza Vines show today he was likening the Nissan Leaf to a Delorean, as that enterprise also received lots of tax payers wonga and was less than successful. I'd much rather have a Delorean over a Leaf :lol: In fact, I'd rather have anything with an internal cumbustion engine over a leaf.....

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