originality

[dieselnutjob]

Flamesuit on.I think an Audi 100 5 cyl TDI motor should mate up to a Volvo 740 turbo diesel bellhousing (it was a VW 6 cyl diesel), and that will fit onto a 4HP22 zf auto box as that box was fitted both to the Volvo and also in Peugeot 505s.The 5 cyl TDI is relatively compact (I think about 2 foot long from memory), is powerful, very economical, and makes a nice Audi rally car sort of noise.Provided the starter motor doesn't hit the steering rack it might just go into a rear drive pug.Flamesuit off.That probably counts as "trolling" on the interweb doesn't it

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I thnk thats a great idea. Get on it!Or what about the 2.5 TD engine and auto box from a 505 GTD estate? (Not that they are super common like).The 505 has some sort of strange integrated gearbox/torque tube thing with the propshaft totally enclosed within it so maybe that would add some complication when fitting in a 604.

[504GL]

Flamesuit on.I think an Audi 100 5 cyl TDI motor should mate up to a Volvo 740 turbo diesel bellhousing (it was a VW 6 cyl diesel), and that will fit onto a 4HP22 zf auto box as that box was fitted both to the Volvo and also in Peugeot 505s.The 5 cyl TDI is relatively compact (I think about 2 foot long from memory), is powerful, very economical, and makes a nice Audi rally car sort of noise.Provided the starter motor doesn't hit the steering rack it might just go into a rear drive pug.Flamesuit off.That probably counts as "trolling" on the interweb doesn't it

Are the inevitable headaches and extra cost actually worth it though?

[dieselnutjob]

I thnk thats a great idea. Get on it!Or what about the 2.5 TD engine and auto box from a 505 GTD estate? (Not that they are super common like).The 505 has some sort of strange integrated gearbox/torque tube thing with the propshaft totally enclosed within it so maybe that would add some complication when fitting in a 604.

The 604 has the same torque tube, front suspension, rear suspension, steering and front crossmember as a 505.Doing that is virtually like Lego, it just bolts in.Shame that the old 2.3 diesel dates back to the 60s.

[Ratdat]

Here's some top level modifying. I bet 0-60 in 5 seconds and 124mph in this brings a big smile to the face. Click the pic below and have a look through the gallery to see the high level of craftsmanship and clever thinking that went into building this awesome Ford Model A...

 

 

There's also a video of it in action here...

 

[dieselnutjob]

Shame that the old 2.3 diesel dates back to the 60s.

Actually I was wrong. The Indenor diesel engine first appeared in the Peugeot 403 in 1958 (according to wikipedia). It's amazing that it survived into the 90s in the 505 and Granada.Sadly it is a bit of a boat anchor compared with the PRV V6 petrol engine.

[scruff]

Here's some top level modifying.

RESPECT. That is bloody superb.

[Guest]

Here's some top level modifying.

RESPECT. That is bloody superb.

Love the 'BDA' numberplate as well, that's a class bit of work that is. I see things like that and wonder why I bother sometimes, I just cannae compete.

[Pete-M]

The 5 pot Howdi engine idea isn't that mental. I know a chap who's got a Mk3 Transit with a 180 or so bhp Audi 5 pot TDi fitted. It's fuckin' rapid.

[Milford Cubicle]

Plus like dieselnutjob says they sound rather nice too.

[Richard]

Good call on not fitting the Volvo/VW six.

[Milford Cubicle]

The D24TIC is a quality engine. It provides your car with such urge and is very clean burning and refined *

[dieselnutjob]

I've got nothing against the VW 6 pot, but I think it's going to be too long.

[Jonnyvalenta]

I put a 1.8TD in my 205 GTI 1.9! Well,the petrol 1.9 was knacked and I had a TD lump sitting so it just went straight in. The end result suits me perfectly and,frankly,it's something I'd always wanted to do! I had toyed with the idea of squeezing a 2.1 12valve TD from an XM in there (110 BHP 184 LB/FT) but just a bit too much work for me sadly. I love my little Pug, it's a bit bashed up and shonky and will never win a beauty contest but I feel I've made it better by modifying it.

[Negative Creep]

Right I can't seem to find the 'shite engine swaps' thread so here it is

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 287252.htm

 

 

Ford Fairlane with a 2.8 Nissan diesel. Class!

[dollywobbler]

I put a 1.8TD in my 205 GTI 1.9! Well,the petrol 1.9 was knacked and I had a TD lump sitting so it just went straight in. The end result suits me perfectly and,frankly,it's something I'd always wanted to do! I had toyed with the idea of squeezing a 2.1 12valve TD from an XM in there (110 BHP 184 LB/FT) but just a bit too much work for me sadly. I love my little Pug, it's a bit bashed up and shonky and will never win a beauty contest but I feel I've made it better by modifying it.

That sounds brilliant. Always wanted a 205 DTurbo.

[Mash]

Someone mentioned listing certain cars earlier in the thread and I was thinking about that today when cleaning my Datsun 1000, itself a significant car. There must be some cars out there with enough historical importance or competition history that they shouldn't be changed from their original spec.Before I get shot down in flames, I must reiterate that although my preference is for standard stuff I don't have an issue with people modding cars in general but consider something like 621 AOK, the first Mini.Suppose this was not at Gaydon for some reason and a private individual had it but thought it was a load of crap to drive and decided to put a Metro turbo engine in it and some nice alloys, better seats, that kind of thing, give it a fancy respray. In my eyes that would be a tragedy and ought really a car like that to have some sort of clause with it that says the reg number can't be sold and the spec changed?Might sound a bit dictatorial but it is only the same thing as with buildings. Maybe it's a bit extreme applying it to vehicles? Dunno.

[mattblack]

Always makes me LOL when the anoraks say 'I spent 3 years tracking down the correct 3/8" air filter bolt that was only used for 3 weeks on the Mk2 phase one facelift model' and ignore the fact that the only original metal in the car is the roof and transmission tunnel... Some people can't grasp the difference between 'original' and 'standard'

[saabhappy]

Always makes me LOL when the anoraks say 'I spent 3 years tracking down the correct 3/8" air filter bolt that was only used for 3 weeks on the Mk2 phase one facelift model' and ignore the fact that the only original metal in the car is the roof and transmission tunnel... Some people can't grasp the difference between 'original' and 'standard'

That's spot on.What's also true is that some people either don't know or care about the scarcity of what they own, and it's quite possible not to be an "anorak" and obsessive about cars but regret that something quite scarce has been altered for no particular reason. I love old cars, and think that when they are really low in numbers they should be respected so that future generations can see them as they were.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Someone mentioned listing certain cars earlier in the thread and I was thinking about that today when cleaning my Datsun 1000, itself a significant car. There must be some cars out there with enough historical importance or competition history that they shouldn't be changed from their original spec.Before I get shot down in flames, I must reiterate that although my preference is for standard stuff I don't have an issue with people modding cars in general but consider something like 621 AOK, the first Mini.Suppose this was not at Gaydon for some reason and a private individual had it but thought it was a load of crap to drive and decided to put a Metro turbo engine in it and some nice alloys, better seats, that kind of thing, give it a fancy respray. In my eyes that would be a tragedy and ought really a car like that to have some sort of clause with it that says the reg number can't be sold and the spec changed?Might sound a bit dictatorial but it is only the same thing as with buildings. Maybe it's a bit extreme applying it to vehicles? Dunno.

Thing about that is, if someone had that AOK mini and decided that, there'd be someone along quick smart with £50k or something which would almost certainly persuade our man not to start chopping that exact one about, but to get another one to modify. The value of that mini is in the fact that its the earliest one, its in great condition, and its got all its original features more or less intact, so anyone who started chopping it about would be shooting themselves in the foot financially in a big way, so its very unlikely to happen.

[dollywobbler]

It certainly gets very blurry when you consider rally cars. You get all excited about seeing one of the original Monte Carlo Minis in the metal, but how much of that car actually competed? Engines would have been pulled in and out all the time and most of them were re-shelled at some point. So is it really a Monte Carlo Mini?Same with other competition cars I'm sure, or rebuilt classics. I know that barely any of the Citroen 2CV that left a Paris factory in 1986 remains in my car.

[Mash]

I did think about that with the rally cars; in most cases only the chassis plate is the original bit!

[M'coli]

I did think about that with the rally cars; in most cases only the chassis plate is the original bit!

You mean like a certain Audi driven by Michelle Mouton during one running of the Ivory Coast rally?

[Father Ted]

Might sound a bit dictatorial but it is only the same thing as with buildings. Maybe it's a bit extreme applying it to vehicles? Dunno.

Ah, now you see Im with the Chinese on this - I think China Tom will be able to confirm that they have many buildings that are "hundreds of years old" but were in fact built within the last 50 years or so. One temple in Beijing near the river is a case in point - its supposedly 900 years old, I said it looked bloody amazing for its age, to be told that it was rebuilt after the fire destroyed it 20 years ago. It is however rebuilt EXACTLY the same as the original. Therein lies their philosophy, if it looks the same and is made of the same materials, then it is.Shame English Heritage dont adopt that ideal rather than letting stuff rot.

[Ratdat]

The major difference between buildings and cars, is that cars a mass produced in tens of thousands whereas buildings tend to be unique or one of very few. They also tend to have some history associated with them. I certainly see the point in preserving a car that's unique or is in some way historically important but to me wether it's stock original or not is largely irrelevant. Race and rally cars being a case in point. Often, it's those cars that lead to sucess of a model in the market place and it's place in the history books.

[saabhappy]

I agree with you, and I hope most people feel the same when a particular car, once a common sight, becomes so rare that the chances of seeing a standard spec one are remote.

[dieselnutjob]

What's also true is that some people either don't know or care about the scarcity of what they own, and it's quite possible not to be an "anorak" and obsessive about cars but regret that something quite scarce has been altered for no particular reason. I love old cars, and think that when they are really low in numbers they should be respected so that future generations can see them as they were.

I think that you've hit the nail on the head with my 604, because no one of any generation seems to give a shit about them and that's why there are none left. 505s are now disappearing fast as well, and many (like 504s before them) are being taken to places like Egypt where people appreciate them, and then work them to death.People only seem to care about Brit stuff because 70s French cars just aren't part of our culture.That's why my rare car is also worthless on the open market.

[Pete-M]

I want a 604 ;)I can't say this enough...

[saabhappy]

That's why my rare car is also worthless on the open market.

I agree, and it goes to show that although people who view cars as investments have grossly inflated values of certain cars, one day there will be regret for what's been just discarded as being of no great value. The Beamish Museum in the North East and Kelvin Island in Sheffield show that once a way of life has gone and the artefacts that were part of it have all but disappeared then suddenly everybody wants to know about it. So when there are no more 604s about then and only then will people regret their passing. That's why I like owning and using old cars.